Latest from Lance . . . [Archive]

BumbleBeeDave

07-18-2010, 05:57 PM

. . . if it won't bore you too much.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010/07/news/lance-armstrong-crashes-not-result-of-distraction-by-federal-inquiry_129759

He denies crashing because he has been distracted by the investigation. I guess I'm jaded, but what did Neal Rogers expect him to say when asked a question like that? . . . "Why yes, Neal, I haven't been able to get out of my own way these last two weeks because I'm totally worried they're going to find my stash. How perceptive of you to ask."

Sigh.

BBD

jbrainin

07-18-2010, 06:04 PM

Elefantino

07-18-2010, 06:06 PM

�I might be distracted, but I�m not distracted on the things people are speculating I�m distracted on."
OK, now that he admits that he is distracted, let's speculate about what he might be distracted on.

I think he's distracted by having to face an interview each day with Frankie Andreu. He is so distracted by the desire to thwack Frankie in the two huevos HE has, he's crashed four times.

johnnymossville

07-18-2010, 06:10 PM

Maybe Lance should start looking for homes in Switzerland. Seems it's pretty hard to extradite people from there.

BumbleBeeDave

07-18-2010, 06:33 PM

I think he's distracted by having to face an interview each day with Frankie Andreu. He is so distracted by the desire to thwack Frankie in the two huevos HE has, he's crashed four times.

I had that exact same thought while watching Frankie interview him after a stage last week. I kept expecting Frankie to offhandedly throw in some sort of "Exactly when DID you stop beating your wife?"-type question! :D

BBD

retrogrouchy

07-18-2010, 08:13 PM

OK, now that he admits that he is distracted, let's speculate about what he might be distracted on.

I think he's distracted by having to face an interview each day with Frankie Andreu. He is so distracted by the desire to thwack Frankie in the two huevos HE has, he's crashed four times.

Can you elaborate on that?

Elefantino

07-18-2010, 08:38 PM

Can you elaborate on that?
The 1996 hospital room "confession" that Betsy Andreu said, under oath, that LA gave. Dopage.

After that, I believe they stopped exchanging Christmas cards.

pbjbike

07-18-2010, 08:50 PM

That will be key in the Federal investigation.

bkboom123

07-18-2010, 09:17 PM

I understand from a racing standpoint why anyone would care if he doped or not..... but in all honesty

I could give two Shi#s if he doped or not at this stage in his life. He raised thousands upon thousands of dollars for cancer, etc...

He has never been found guilty...

and in all reality, as someone that has had multiple surgeries for potentially cancerous birthmarks/growths/birth defects, I dont care... He has been an inspiration to me and to many, he has helped save the lives of hundreds if not thousands, from his awareness and money raised......life is bigger then doping and drugs and winning races....

life is not guaranteed....

johnnymossville

07-18-2010, 09:35 PM

...life is not guaranteed....

You make some very valid points.

It's still all very tough to take. The whole Lance thing is such an interesting story. Brash young Texan, shows promise, wins worlds, get's cancer, the comeback, the drug allegations, livestrong, 7 tours. retirement, skirt chasing, Lemond, comeback again, more drug allegations.

and many more angles can be added to those.

bkboom123

07-18-2010, 09:49 PM

I guess I just look for the best in people when they are doing the best for us......I do get what you are saying though.

regularguy412

07-18-2010, 11:11 PM

You make some very valid points.

It's still all very tough to take. The whole Lance thing is such an interesting story. Brash young Texan, shows promise, wins worlds, get's cancer, the comeback, the drug allegations, livestrong, 7 tours. retirement, skirt chasing, Lemond, comeback again, more drug allegations.

and many more angles can be added to those.

Sounds like the making of the next Martin Scorsese movie.

Mike in AR:beer:

mikki

07-19-2010, 12:48 AM

I read today that Lance mentioned (to the media) regarding Lemond that he should "come clean about 1989". Hmmmmm...is Lance now throwing in the possibility of Lemond doping that year?

I just noticed my signature quote from Lance. Pretty funny considering he's hit the deck four times this tour...

Jack Brunk

07-19-2010, 01:04 AM

If anyone thinks good ole Greg was clean then your head was really buried in the sand. Why would he be any different than the rest? No matter what it still made for great theater.

Bob Ross

07-19-2010, 05:48 AM

He's not crashing because he's distracted by the investigation, but my wife says he's stayed in the race in order to avoid being served with a grand jury subpoena upon his return to the US. (And I thought *I* was cynical!)

Just last night my wife said "Well of course he's been riding like ****, instead of training for the Tour he was out making all those commercials for Nissan and Michelob and Nike!"

FlashUNC

07-19-2010, 06:06 AM

I've personally had a hard time swallowing the notion that the most doped peloton in four decades was crushed for 7 years by the only clean guy on the block. Who only did so after climbing out of his deathbed.

If he did dope, I don't think it diminishes his accomplishments in the least. After all, he was beating other noted dopers, so that becomes a somewhat level competitive playing field, no?

The stuff has always been a part of the sport in the pro ranks, and maybe I'm too cynical about it, but I think it always will be.

cdimattio

07-19-2010, 09:35 AM

If anyone thinks good ole Greg was clean then your head was really buried in the sand. Why would he be any different than the rest? No matter what it still made for great theater.

While it does not change the reality of the sport, doping was different in the days of LeMond, Hinault, and even Merckx. The technology and tools available to them would seem to have had more benefit for the one day classics as compared to a Grand Tour.

Stimulants and steroids were crude as compared to the current medicine cabinet of physiological pharmaceuticals.

michael white

07-19-2010, 09:47 AM

While it does not change the reality of the sport, doping was different in the days of LeMond, Hinault, and even Merckx. The technology and tools available to them would seem to have had more benefit for the one day classics as compared to a Grand Tour.

or a single stage, such as a last day (1989) miracle.

RonW87

07-19-2010, 10:02 AM

Assuming Lance doped, I don't like it but i get it. It's not like Beloki, Ullrich, Kloden and Basso (i.e. every rider on the second step of the podium for his seven TDF wins) were clean. Riis, Zabel, etc. have admitted it and moved on with their lives.

Lance could have done the same, admittedly with a bit more fallout in terms of all those who believe he walks on water. But the list of those who have to be lying in in order for him to be telling the truth keeps growing. Add Landis to Swarts, O' Reilly, Lemond, Andreu, Anderson and Bassons.

Let's not forget this gem (after his seventh victory):

"Finally, the last thing I�ll say to the people who don�t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics: I'm sorry for you. I�m sorry that you can�t dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. ... You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. ... And there are no secrets � this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it."

Karin Kirk

07-19-2010, 11:26 AM

Last night we were watching one of those "The Look Back" episodes on vs.
I don't recall the stage in particular that they were featuring, but on a long climb in the Alps there was a select group of 5: Armstrong, Uhlrich, Kloden, Landis and Basso. Three of those 5 have been busted/suspended for doping. I thought that provided some pretty interesting hindsight.

As for the Armstrong investigation, I'm pretty lukewarm about the whole mess. It's a bummer that Landis' tactics will likely bear fruit. Too bad that such lame behavior is going to be rewarded. But then again, I guess all parties have partaken in their fair share of lame behavior. I just find Landis to be especially distasteful.

RonW87

07-19-2010, 12:09 PM

Three of those 5 have been busted/suspended for doping.

While Kloden may not have been busted/suspended, I don't think he was clean:

"Andreas Kl�den travelled to the Freiburg University Clinic for an illegal blood transfusion after the first stage of the Tour de France 2006, an independent commission has ruled."

From: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/may09/may13news3

JohnHemlock

07-19-2010, 12:19 PM

And if you don't think Contador was the "AC" written in Doc Fuentes' Little Black Book, you are delusional.

JMerring

07-19-2010, 12:20 PM

While Kloden may not have been busted/suspended, I don't think he was clean:

"Andreas Kl�den travelled to the Freiburg University Clinic for an illegal blood transfusion after the first stage of the Tour de France 2006, an independent commission has ruled."

From: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2009/may09/may13news3

that, and the fact that he came of age in team telekom and was mates with jan. i say he's no cleaner than any of them. (in his defense, he does seem like a nice fella.)

Hawker

07-19-2010, 05:22 PM

If anyone thinks good ole Greg was clean then your head was really buried in the sand. Why would he be any different than the rest? No matter what it still made for great theater.

I could be wrong Jack, but I don't think anyone has ever seriously suggested Greg was using during the '89 race? Got sources?

Steve

pbjbike

07-19-2010, 05:48 PM

It was, (at the time), the revolutionary aero bars that LeMond used, and which Fignon eschewed, that some think made the difference in the '89 TT. GL's time in that race remains the fastest individual TT ever in the TDF, which makes you wonder.

Jack Brunk

07-19-2010, 05:54 PM

I could be wrong Jack, but I don't think anyone has ever seriously suggested Greg was using during the '89 race? Got sources?

Steve
Nope no sources just a hunch. I think he falls into the "everyone was doing it period" except the products were different. I still think he was a badd ass racer to the core.

nathbdp

07-19-2010, 06:12 PM

pbjbike

07-19-2010, 06:26 PM

Excellent point. :)

Elefantino

07-19-2010, 08:43 PM

http://www.personneltoday.com/assets/getAsset.aspx?ItemID=4678..

ClutchCargo

07-21-2010, 09:07 AM

or a single stage, such as a last day (1989) miracle.

You, sir, are crazy.
Lemond won because he used aero bars and helmet, while Fignon insisted
on riding without an aero helmet so he could show off his balding guy ponytail.

Of course, both of them were doping. :no:

oldpotatoe

07-21-2010, 09:11 AM

michael white

07-21-2010, 09:19 AM

You, sir, are crazy.
Lemond won because he used aero bars and helmet, while Fignon insisted
on riding without an aero helmet so he could show off his balding guy ponytail.

Of course, both of them were doping. :no:

but that narrative sure did sell a lot of aero bars, didn't it? now let's see, did I stash those old Profile bars in the closet or attic . . . .

OtayBW

07-21-2010, 10:15 AM

Life is a sexually transmitted condition that always results in death...
.....Writing this down....

johnnymossville

07-21-2010, 10:18 AM

.....Writing this down.... made me laugh, thanks.

Karin Kirk

07-21-2010, 01:03 PM

but that narrative sure did sell a lot of aero bars, didn't it? now let's see, did I stash those old Profile bars in the closet or attic . . . .
It did a lot more than simply sell bars - it thoroughly transformed time trials, from the elite pros all the way down to weekend warriors. I'd say this is one of the most significant events in the evolution of bike racing technology. Thank you Boone Lennon!

oldpotatoe

07-22-2010, 07:48 AM

You, sir, are crazy.
Lemond won because he used aero bars and helmet, while Fignon insisted
on riding without an aero helmet so he could show off his balding guy ponytail.

Of course, both of them were doping. :no:

Fignon had a ugly saddle sore also..even w/o aero bars , I think Lemond would have won that day.

Kevan

07-22-2010, 11:52 AM

Serious mouth piece has been hired: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/22/sportsline/main6702167.shtml?tag=stack

Lifelover

07-22-2010, 01:23 PM

Serious mouth piece has been hired: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/22/sportsline/main6702167.shtml?tag=stack

Clearly more proof that LA is guilty. What other millionaire would hire a defense attorney just because the feds want to talk to him.

William

07-22-2010, 01:45 PM

Serious mouth piece has been hired: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/07/22/sportsline/main6702167.shtml?tag=stack

http://www.huydang.com/rolemodels/uploaded_images/JackieChiles-ShesFlauntingSocietysConventions-small-700213.jpg

"These charges are totally inappropriate. It's lewd, vesivius, salacious, outrageous!"

William

Kevan

07-22-2010, 02:44 PM

Clearly more proof that LA is guilty. What other millionaire would hire a defense attorney just because the feds want to talk to him.

but that's not necessarily true when you have a pack of prosecuters (essentially) circling you, looking to pounce. They might say "talk", but they want their pound of flesh, every auditor-type wants a finding. Lance is savvy, he knows he needs a mean guard dog. I think this means more, he knows the investigation level is ramped up and he'll be fighting harder than the hills.

bzbvh5

07-22-2010, 02:52 PM

What other millionaire would hire a defense attorney just because the feds want to talk to him.
All the smart ones would. Just having a lawyer there during questioning keeps the accusers from asking the same question five different ways and putting words in your mouth.

Charles M

07-22-2010, 03:09 PM

Yep...

The answer is : Every single one of em would hire an attourney...

michael white

07-22-2010, 03:14 PM

Yep...

The answer is : Every single one of em would hire an attourney...

the meanest, most expensive one they could find. not a question.

Kevan

07-22-2010, 03:42 PM

Lawyer: "My client has every intention to cooperate fully with this investigation. He's a fine man, honest and upstanding, and has nothing to hide.", he'll likely say.

Then watch what doesn't appear to happen.

Lifelover

07-22-2010, 05:10 PM

but that's not necessarily true when you have a pack of prosecuters (essentially) circling you, looking to pounce. They might say "talk", but they want their pound of flesh, every auditor-type wants a finding. Lance is savvy, he knows he needs a mean guard dog. I think this means more, he knows the investigation level is ramped up and he'll be fighting harder than the hills.

I guess I need to find a emoticon that expresses sarcasm.

Anyone would be a fool to sit in front of the feds without the best lawyer they could afford.

rwsaunders

07-22-2010, 05:31 PM

Anyone would be a fool to sit in front of the feds without the best lawyer they could afford.

Roger that...

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2005820,00.html?hpt=T2

JohnHemlock

07-22-2010, 05:37 PM

I think Lance's regular attorney is good enough in a Lionel Hutz sort of way for suing mouthbreathers and slanderous ex-employees. But I speak with some experience when I say when dealing with a federal prosecutor, you look for the best attorney you can find. Then hire his mentor.

Walter

07-22-2010, 09:00 PM

I have worked in the criminal justice system for almost 40 years. Anyone who finds themselves on the Govt's wish list and does not get expeienced counsel is a fool. Too often the goal obscures the truth and the facts are viewed through the rose tinted glasses of the investigator or prosecutor who want a case built, not necessarily to find out the truth.

Too often shakey things happen. Snitches get paid money and are given breaks because they say they can deliver what the Govt wants. Evidence that cuts against the Govt's case never finds its way to the record. Some officers get creative to get around Constitutional protections, all in the name of the greater good. Statements that are given are not faithfully recorded.

If you believe the saying "We are with the Govt and are here to help you"....I have some choice riverbottom land I would like to sell to you.

At the first sniff of something coming, smart people get good counsel. It just keeps 'em more honest.

Walter

07-22-2010, 09:04 PM

[QUOTE from JohnHemlock] "But I speak with some experience when I say when dealing with a federal prosecutor, you look for the best attorney you can find. Then hire his mentor."

Great line. The best of the thread!

Kevan

07-23-2010, 02:33 PM

I guess I need to find a emoticon that expresses sarcasm.

I respond better to thrown bricks. (Not that I'm asking for any.) (Mine you.) (Please.)

Kevan

09-16-2010, 10:27 AM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/16/sportsline/main6872132.shtml?tag=cbsnewsLeadStoriesAreaMain;c bsnewsLeadStoriesPrimary

Has the room, all the sudden, gotten a bit warmer?

soulspinner

09-16-2010, 03:47 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/09/16/sportsline/main6872132.shtml?tag=cbsnewsLeadStoriesAreaMain;c bsnewsLeadStoriesPrimary

Has the room, all the sudden, gotten a bit warmer?

Whats the defense gonna say, the samples were tainted by time/the French etc?

schneiderrd

09-16-2010, 06:21 PM

JMerring

09-16-2010, 06:42 PM

After reading these posts one thing came to mind. With all of the technology advances in bicycles and the wind tunnel testing since 1989, if Lance doped and Lemond didn't, how is it that Lemond still holds the resord for the fastest time trial?

Pure speculation: favorable weather and flat/downhill course. He also had the ultimate carrot dangling right in front of him. But you raise a valid question and one that occurs to me every time I hear the statistic.

pbjbike

09-16-2010, 07:38 PM

Have no worries. We`ll have new information to speculate on soon enough. The blood and urine samples are a tiny bit of the Feds evidence. The case will center around hundreds of hours of team mates testimony and anecdotal evidence. Lance will read the transcrpts of the depositions and agree to a deal.

Ray

09-16-2010, 08:31 PM

After reading these posts one thing came to mind. With all of the technology advances in bicycles and the wind tunnel testing since 1989, if Lance doped and Lemond didn't, how is it that Lemond still holds the record for the fastest time trial?
Who says Lemond didn't? Other than Lemond. I hate to say it, but this isn't a court of law, its the court of public opinion. And given everything we know about this sport, I take a "guilty until proven innocent" point of view. And just because someone may or not seem like a good guy or a prick is sort of irrelevant. The guys who wouldn't dope get weeded out in the minor leagues - they don't make it to the Pro Tour, grand tours, etc.

-Ray

BumbleBeeDave

09-16-2010, 08:34 PM

Lance will read the transcrpts of the depositions and agree to a deal.

I would guess that for a lot of the enemies Lance has built up over these past years, this case is FAR more about proving he doped than it is about getting him convicted of any real crime. They don't necessarily want to see him in jail. They want to ruin his reputation and hit him where it will absolutely hurt him the most--right in the middle of his ego.

I would venture to guess that if and when deal time comes, there will be huge behind-the-scenes pressure on the feds NOT to offer him any deal that doesn't involve him actually admitting to doping.

Meanwhile, Lance's lawyers will be advising him to accept a deal and confess and he would rather give his other nut than do any such thing. The guy's ego is just so huge it may blind him to the fact that he just can't win this one.

In any event, an interesting couple of months ahead . . .

BBD

pbjbike

09-16-2010, 08:58 PM

The guys who wouldn't dope get weeded out in the minor leagues - they don't make it to the Pro Tour, grand tours, etc.

-Ray

Well, they DO make it there, they just don't last for long, and their results aren't spectacular. I know a few. I get your point, Ray. :)

pbjbike

09-16-2010, 09:10 PM

I would guess that for a lot of the enemies Lance has built up over these past years, this case is FAR more about proving he doped than it is about getting him convicted of any real crime. They don't necessarily want to see him in jail. They want to ruin his reputation and hit him where it will absolutely hurt him the most--right in the middle of his ego.

I would venture to guess that if and when deal time comes, there will be huge behind-the-scenes pressure on the feds NOT to offer him any deal that doesn't involve him actually admitting to doping.

Meanwhile, Lance's lawyers will be advising him to accept a deal and confess and he would rather give his other nut than do any such thing. The guy's ego is just so huge it may blind him to the fact that he just can't win this one.

In any event, an interesting couple of months ahead . . .

BBD

The Feds are going after the money trail on this one. That's where there's a conviction possible: French labs, old tests, yadda yadda... BUT, bikes sold, and cash deposited in an Italian "sports" physician's account, now that's something. Testimony about doping will only buttress the case proving financial fraud and misuse of taxpayer dollars towards the end of defrauding his sponsors. If he makes a deal, it will involve a huge fine. This case will be about money, not lab tests. :beer:

soulspinner

09-17-2010, 06:17 AM

oldguy00

09-17-2010, 08:37 AM

After reading these posts one thing came to mind. With all of the technology advances in bicycles and the wind tunnel testing since 1989, if Lance doped and Lemond didn't, how is it that Lemond still holds the record for the fastest time trial?

It was a pretty short TT, and it had a large section of downhill on it. LeMond was pretty muscular, the course/length probably suited him perfect, and wind may have been favorable.
Not saying he didn't dope though, just that there is a possibility...

malcolm

09-17-2010, 08:47 AM

Historically speaking I think we have adequate data to suggest all these guys have used what ever was available to enhance performance all the way back to the earliest days. The only thing that has changed is what is available and how much we seem concerned. How would Greg Lemond be any different? I feel pretty confident he did what ever he could to improve his chances, he just doesn't have any old specimens laying around.

RonW87

09-17-2010, 09:00 AM

After reading these posts one thing came to mind. With all of the technology advances in bicycles and the wind tunnel testing since 1989, if Lance doped and Lemond didn't, how is it that Lemond still holds the record for the fastest time trial?

He doesn't. Zabriskie does (and beat LA in the process):

http://www.letour.fr/2005/TDF/LIVE/us/100/index.html

Also, even if Lemond doped (which I doubt), it was with stuff that had marginal effects on performance. By the time EPO was introduced, Lemond wasn't winning races any more.

Ron

soulspinner

09-17-2010, 09:24 AM

19 km time trials are so short, who still has the fastest over a sinificant distance,say 25 miles(40kilometers)?

malcolm

09-17-2010, 09:41 AM

He doesn't. Zabriskie does (and beat LA in the process):

http://www.letour.fr/2005/TDF/LIVE/us/100/index.html

Also, even if Lemond doped (which I doubt), it was with stuff that had marginal effects on performance. By the time EPO was introduced, Lemond wasn't winning races any more.

Ron

So is it okay to use performance enhancers and lie about it as long as they weren't as effective.

RonW87

09-17-2010, 10:38 AM

norcalbiker

09-17-2010, 11:26 AM

I think they all doped. it's just that one rider may have taken one too many or one have a better way of not getting caught. :argue:

dancinkozmo

09-17-2010, 11:42 AM

After reading these posts one thing came to mind. With all of the technology advances in bicycles and the wind tunnel testing since 1989, if Lance doped and Lemond didn't, how is it that Lemond still holds the record for the fastest time trial?

lemonds vo2 max was 94
armstrong 84

that being said, im of the belief that they both doped.

schneiderrd

09-17-2010, 12:08 PM

"that being said, im of the belief that they both doped."

So if Lemond doped, which I am beginning to believe, why is he after Armstrong? I don't get it, what's the point?

Landis I get. Even after he served his time, Armstrong did not give him a slot on Radio Shack, so he is getting even. Speaking of getting even, that puke Landis owes me $100 for the donation I made to his defense fund.

malcolm

09-17-2010, 12:10 PM

Let me guess, defence attorney?

I don't think Lemond doped. I think his motivations re taking on Armstrong come from a simple love of the sport and a sense of what's right. Otherwise, why would he do it? There is only downside for him personally, and he knows it. For those who say he's jealous of the limelight, I just don't buy it. I don't think people who have spent any time around him would agree with that.

Interestingly, Fignon did admit to doping. Again, pre-EPO.

Not an attorney, burned out old ER doc.
I like Lemond, just don't believe his holier than though motives. The people around Floyd didn't think he doped, people around Marion Jones didn't think she did. Their whole identity is tied up in performance not to mention FRNs. In this setting history tells me they are guilty until proven innocent, unless of course it concerns me and then I'm pure as the driven snow.