Are we bound to die doing this?

[Chris]

Yesterday morning here in Oklahoma City, a cyclist was found in a ditch after a hit and run. This morning, about 4 miles from where that happened, a guy gets hit from behind by a pickup. Two deaths on bikes in two days. It makes you think...

[Rueda Tropical]

As horrific as that news is cycling is safer then driving a car or being a pedestrian. Most cycling accidents involve juvenile cyclists. Adult cycling is a relatively safe activity. It would be safer if drivers behaved more responsibly but then so would driving. Your more likely to get killed on your morning commute in your car then on a weekend bicycle ride.

[Ken Robb]

As horrific as that news is cycling is safer then driving a car or being a pedestrian. Most cycling accidents involve juvenile cyclists. Adult cycling is a relatively safe activity. It would be safer if drivers behaved more responsibly but then so would driving. Your more likely to get killed on your morning commute in your car then on a weekend bicycle ride.

Interesting stuff. Where did you find this info?

[Louis]

You'd need numbers like "fatalities or serious injuries per hour performing a given activity" (or something like that) to back up this sort of claim.

[Z3c]

Your more likely to get killed on your morning commute in your car then on a weekend bicycle ride.

Kind of hard to have a lot of faith in the quoted "stats" when the author does not use the proper version of your/you're..

[ahumblecycler]

Actually to be perfectly honest I do expect to die one day while commuting. This belief recently led me to complete my will and living will.

I was taken out on two different occasions while attending OU for my graduate work. The number of side mirror hits, hitting ditches to avoid stupid drivers, and more recently a SUV that locked its brakes and skidded past me has further illustrated my denial of the dangers of cycling.

I have accepted this fact. When the day comes and this fact becomes to overwhelming is the day I hang up my cycling shoes.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Kind of hard to have a lot of faith in the quoted "stats" when the author does not use the proper version of your/you're..

. . . and it always sounds like the critic disagrees, but can't really find anything wrong with the previous poster's statement, so they resort to an oblique personal attack to draw attention away from the real argument.

Why not simply ask Rueda where he got his information? Or--better yet--go do some Google research yourself instead and present the results. Far more constructive to the conversation to do that than to cast aspersions on his writing ability.

BBD

[Z3c]

. . . and it always sounds like the critic disagrees, but can't really find anything wrong with the previous poster's statement, so they resort to an oblique personal attack to draw attention away from the real argument.

Why not simply ask Rueda where he got his information? Or--better yet--go do some Google research yourself instead and present the results. Far more constructive to the conversation to do that than to cast aspersions on his writing ability.

BBD

as·per·sion   /əˈspɜrʒən, -ʃən/ Show Spelled[uh-spur-zhuhn, -shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a damaging or derogatory remark or criticism; slander: casting aspersions on a campaign rival.
2. the act of slandering; vilification; defamation; calumniation; derogation: Such vehement aspersions cannot be ignored.
3. the act of sprinkling, as in baptism.
4. Archaic . a shower or spray.

A bit of overkill perhaps?

[rugbysecondrow]

Yesterday morning here in Oklahoma City, a cyclist was found in a ditch after a hit and run. This morning, about 4 miles from where that happened, a guy gets hit from behind by a pickup. Two deaths on bikes in two days. It makes you think...


Maybe, I don't know, but I am not concerned. People get taken out by all sorts of things, riding might be mine. I remember reading about a guy who died doing the Golden Gate Bridge swim and thinking, that is a fantastic way to go! Doing something you love, pretty swift, no messy body for anybody to find (this wouldn't apply to cycling) but the point is that you are doing something you love. Frankly, if I just sorta liked biking, I wouldn't do it, but that is not the case. I hope I don't die young, but if I do, it is still an example that can be set for my kids...Life isn't about achieving a numerical age, it is about living. Salude :beer:

[gone]

I've always had a problem with the phrase "well, at least he was doing something he loved". I'll state here, for the record, that if someone runs me over while cycling I am pissed about it. Sure, I enjoy cycling and I do a lot of it. That doesn't mean I'm fair game for every cell phone talking, texting moron on the road just because I'm out doing something I enjoy. I accept that life is fraught with peril, that I am more likely to fall and fracture my skull in the shower and that cycling on the roads with self-absorbed idiots is at times a risky proposition. Nevertheless, I will not be happy if someone runs me over.

[rugbysecondrow]

I've always had a problem with the phrase "well, at least he was doing something he loved". I'll state here, for the record, that if someone runs me over while cycling I am pissed about it. Sure, I enjoy cycling and I do a lot of it. That doesn't mean I'm fair game for every cell phone talking, texting moron on the road just because I'm out doing something I enjoy. I accept that life is fraught with peril, that I am more likely to fall and fracture my skull in the shower and that cycling on the roads with self-absorbed idiots is at times a risky proposition. Nevertheless, I will not be happy if someone runs me over.

Am I going to be happy? No, that is a pretty stupid interpretation. Will I, and am I willing to, accept the consequences...I better be or I ought not strap on my cleats and helmet. You know the risks and accept them. Either move on in peace or not. Frankly, for me, if I am to let myself get mad about something then I ought not to do it...just not worth it for me. I take precautions, I try to be safe, I try to stay on safer roads, but some things I can't control.

It is interesting how people call motorcyclists "organ donors", but I think what we do is much more dangerous. At least they can join traffic, we have to exist on the periphery.

Just my opinion though.

[pbjbike]

Maybe, I don't know, but I am not concerned. People get taken out by all sorts of things, riding might be mine. I remember reading about a guy who died doing the Golden Gate Bridge swim and thinking, that is a fantastic way to go! Doing something you love, pretty swift, no messy body for anybody to find (this wouldn't apply to cycling) but the point is that you are doing something you love. Frankly, if I just sorta liked biking, I wouldn't do it, but that is not the case. I hope I don't die young, but if I do, it is still an example that can be set for my kids...Life isn't about achieving a numerical age, it is about living. Salude :beer:

+1.

I've never lived more in the moment than when I was a messenger. Daily near misses, many near death experiences, a few nasty crashes and confrontations that I'd rather forget. And the unforgettable bliss of getting from 125th down to Wall St., quicker than any other living thing could. Would not trade those years for anything. And the time pedaling for the last 35 years, could not have been better spent. A blowout coming down Flagstaff and sending me into the abyss would be just right.

[retrogrouchy]

Kind of hard to have a lot of faith in the quoted "stats" when the author does not use the proper version of your/you're..

I was/am more (but still mildly) peeved by the use of 'then' instead of 'than.'

However, we are better then that, so it is no big deal. ;) :banana:

[Mike748]

I started thinking about all the (**!!??) car drivers who pass me on a given day... scary. But I love doing it and will keep on doing it.

[Dekonick]

Goodness! This is a forum, not a thesis! So there are a few spelling mistakes, or misuse of punctuation... it is the post that counts.

Rugby - I agree about enjoying riding a bike. Do what you like or live in fear - I would rather ride.

[martinrjensen]

Interesting. Looks like more deflection. You are not going to answer the direct question?as·per·sion   /əˈspɜrʒən, -ʃən/ Show Spelled[uh-spur-zhuhn, -shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a damaging or derogatory remark or criticism; slander: casting aspersions on a campaign rival.
2. the act of slandering; vilification; defamation; calumniation; derogation: Such vehement aspersions cannot be ignored.
3. the act of sprinkling, as in baptism.
4. Archaic . a shower or spray.

A bit of overkill perhaps?

[Z3c]

Interesting. Looks like more deflection. You are not going to answer the direct question?

No, my initial post probably conveyed more interest than intended..

Sorry for derailing this thread.

Scott

[false_Aest]

wow . . .

I think a lot about stuff like this. My concern isn't for myself but more for my family, my GF and really for the dude (and his family) that hits me.

I digress . . .

Statistics don't matter. Really, they don't. Unless you have a data set and pool that's big enough to predict when and how.

Send those people's family some good vibes. Tell your loved ones how you feel and get over yourself.


Then go ride.

[Louis]

Two comments:

1) So who's going to track down the real statistics so we can talk about that instead of wasting server space insulting each other?

2) I don't worry that much about myself. I think about who's going to take care of my cats if I'm either a) dead or b) in the hospital for a week.

Louis

[RonW87]

Stats here:

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

Fatalities per Million Exposure Hours
Skydiving 128.71
General Flying 15.58
Motorcycling 8.80
Scuba Diving 1.98
Living 1.53
Swimming 1.07
Snowmobiling .88
Motoring .47
Water skiing .28
Bicycling .26
Airline Flying .15
Hunting .08

Data compiled by Failure Analysis Associates, Inc.

[auto_rock]

I'm surprised snowmobiling is so safe. It took me about three hours to have a near miss on one of those death traps when I wrapped the skid on a buried tree. Thanks for the stats!

[Louis]

Stats here

Somebody needs to put a stop to that "Living" activity. That's way too dangerous to allow anyone and everyone to participate without some sort of licensing system.

[Karin Kirk]

Wow, skydiving - those numbers don't look so good stacked up against other activities.

Secondly, when you call a place like Failure Analysis Associates, Inc., how do you suppose they answer the phone? Do they have some sort of catchy phrase?

And on-topic: thanks for the stats and the related article. It's always helpful to see things in perspective, especially after the OP has had two tragic incidents in his hometown.

[Nil Else]

Heck, what the hey was I worried about... you r way safer Bicycling then your Living!

[Rueda Tropical]

Stats here:

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

Fatalities per Million Exposure Hours
Skydiving 128.71
General Flying 15.58
Motorcycling 8.80
Scuba Diving 1.98
Living 1.53
Swimming 1.07
Snowmobiling .88
Motoring .47
Water skiing .28
Bicycling .26
Hunting .08
Airline Flying .15

Data compiled by Failure Analysis Associates, Inc.

The Failure Analysis Associates paper is where I got my figures. That page you linked to has lots of interesting data. Florida is the most dangerous state in the union for cyclists but even here cycling is relatively safe compared to other activities. In the past decade motorcycle accidents have risen substantially while cycling accidents have remained relatively flat. http://www.flhsmv.gov/hsmvdocs/CS2007.pdf

You can also avoid times when crashes are more likely from the Florida Crash Records Database (pdf link above):

Friday, during the 5 p.m. hour, had the highest number of all types of crashes (3,312). Saturday, during the 7 p.m. hour, had the highest number of fatal crashes (50). Sunday, during the 1 a.m. hour, was second with 47 fatal crashes in Florida.

[Rueda Tropical]

I've always had a problem with the phrase "well, at least he was doing something he loved".


I would actually prefer to die quietly in bed at an advanced age then die doing something I love. Nothing I love doing is supposed to involve death or bodily injury.

[1centaur]

Rueda's point about avoiding more likely crash times is one I think is often missed when talking about driving being more risky than this or that. Don't drink and drive, don't drive when more drinkers are out, don't drive sleepy, drive a car in good operating condition, don't be a major speeder, pay attention to erratic driving behavior around you, don't drive when you are too old....and then what are the stats? We just don't know that answer, but get a feeling for who dies in crashes and the answer is still way, way less than those general statistics.

[Climb01742]

Secondly, when you call a place like Failure Analysis Associates, Inc., how do you suppose they answer the phone? Do they have some sort of catchy phrase?

"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. Where failure is an option."


"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. Making a success of failure since 1946."


"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. If I fail to connect you to your party, we'll analyze why. Promise."


"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. Helping people fail, scientifically."

[BumbleBeeDave]

as·per·sion   /əˈspɜrʒən, -ʃən/ Show Spelled[uh-spur-zhuhn, -shuhn] Show IPA
–noun
1. a damaging or derogatory remark or criticism; slander: casting aspersions on a campaign rival.
2. the act of slandering; vilification; defamation; calumniation; derogation: Such vehement aspersions cannot be ignored.
3. the act of sprinkling, as in baptism.
4. Archaic . a shower or spray.

A bit of overkill perhaps?

. . . in that there was no reason to belittle someone's spelling skills in this discussion, then yes. When you address the substance of someone's argument and offer your own, that's discussion and/or debate. When you play the pedant to make him look stupid personally, then that's a personal attack. Unless my memory fails me, that's a no-no here. If you don't like his argument and stats, then counter them with some of your own with citations to prove their accuracy. But don't throw something out there that can only be interpreted as a personal insult.

BBD

[soulspinner]

"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. Where failure is an option."


"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. Making a success of failure since 1946."


"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. If I fail to connect you to your party, we'll analyze why. Promise."


"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. Helping people fail, scientifically."
:p

[Bob Ross]

Are we bound to die doing this?


In short, yes. I can even pinpoint exactly where and how I'm going to die on a bike: Mark my words, when I get mowed down by a car it will be on Broadway between 181st and 204th Street, by a Lincoln town car (gypsy cab) pulling an unannounced U-turn.

It's just a matter of when...

[Rueda Tropical]

There are simple things you can do to make it much less likely to be a statistic. On my drive home from work when it's dusk or later I am always horrified to see cyclists on expensive performance bikes with cheap feeble blinky lights that render them almost invisible, even to me who is more aware of cyclists.

[Birddog]

There are simple things you can do to make it much less likely to be a statistic.

I don't mean to diminish the impact of the two lives lost in OKC, but in both cases there were circumstances that could have been avoided.
The victim of the hit and run on Sat was riding solo Southbound on a two lane road w/no shoulder, 45 mph speed limit. He was in a shady area with a tree canopy partially over the road between 7 and 8 AM (estimated). He was probably headed to another East/West road that is heavily used by cyclists.
I talked with the cyclist that discovered the body at length and he said he did not see a blinky at the scene. He did say that he thought the victim was hit with an excessive speed given the amount of human and material damage. He also said that if he hadn't stopped to pick up the cadence sensor (he thought it might hasve belonged to a friend) and water bottle parts, he probably would not have seen the victim off in the ditch. For me personally, this is a road that I avoid as there are other alternatives that are safer.

The 2nd victim (a long time cyclist, probably 20 years or more) on Sunday was travelling E on a two lane road with no shoulder that is very heavily used by motorists and has a speed limit of 60 in some places althougth I think it is 45 where the guy was hit. The road has sustained some damage due to recent floods. Avoiding pot holes may have contributed to the accident, but that is speculation on my part. It was also about 8 AM when the accident occurred. I think the sun should have been high enough in the sky to have not been a factor at that hour. The problem with this road is the high speeds that cars typically employ. I had to use it for work for about 10 days a couple months ago and every time I saw cyclists on it I scratched my head and asked myself why the hell were they here when they could have been on a much safer and more heavily used (by cyclists) road just one mile to the N. The road which I consider safer has it's problems but at least it is frequently used and has "Share the Road" signage.

I don't feel like either cyclist did anything really stupid, just that they could have made better choices and maybe they would still be alive. That good ol 20/20 hindsight really helps in cases like these. I hope they catch the douchebag that was involved in the hit and run and nail him/her to the wall.

[gone]

But don't throw something out there that can only be interpreted as a personal insult.
BBD

Like for instance:

No, that is a pretty stupid interpretation.

[veloduffer]

There are simple things you can do to make it much less likely to be a statistic. On my drive home from work when it's dusk or later I am always horrified to see cyclists on expensive performance bikes with cheap feeble blinky lights that render them almost invisible, even to me who is more aware of cyclists.

I try to avoid early morning and dusk where the sun can be in the eyes of the motorist. Despite being half blinded, they don't slow down.

I also am amazed at how many cyclists wear dark color jerseys and helmets. Hi-vis jerseys go a long way. Not stylish (in some circles) but hell, neither is laying on the side of the road injured. :bike:

[rugbysecondrow]

Like for instance:
But this way took less words. :)

The point is that nobody will be "happy" being run down by a motorist, but it seems better than other ways, like having a heart attack on the crapper. Going out doing something you love may not be poetic, but it seems, to me, that it is a fate easier to accept and be OK with. Everbody has to understand the risks, disagree with or being upset about the risks is unreasonnable. I used to sky dive when I was younger, but that is no longer a risk I want to take...not worth it to me now. Riding is a risk I take relative to how much I enjoy doing it. If that enjoyment diminishes to the point where I am unwilling to accept the risks, then I will adjust.

[michael white]

I don't feel like either cyclist did anything really stupid, just that they could have made better choices and maybe they would still be alive. That good ol 20/20 hindsight really helps in cases like these. I hope they catch the douchebag that was involved in the hit and run and nail him/her to the wall.

I also live in a place where cyclists are legally entitled to ride on certain roads where they are also almost certain to be injured or killed. It's an evolutionary process which doesn't see the point in giving all vehicles equal rights. Until the various crappy state DOT's (yours appears to be one) truly begin to do their jobs and treat all law-abiding Americans as Americans, this (country) will continue to be a compromised & unfulfilled dream and I am not even willing to try to see the other side.

[hookookadoo]

I don't mean to diminish the impact of the two lives lost in OKC, but in both cases there were circumstances that could have been avoided.
The victim of the hit and run on Sat was riding solo Southbound on a two lane road w/no shoulder, 45 mph speed limit. He was in a shady area with a tree canopy partially over the road between 7 and 8 AM (estimated). He was probably headed to another East/West road that is heavily used by cyclists.
I talked with the cyclist that discovered the body at length and he said he did not see a blinky at the scene. He did say that he thought the victim was hit with an excessive speed given the amount of human and material damage. He also said that if he hadn't stopped to pick up the cadence sensor (he thought it might hasve belonged to a friend) and water bottle parts, he probably would not have seen the victim off in the ditch. For me personally, this is a road that I avoid as there are other alternatives that are safer.

The 2nd victim (a long time cyclist, probably 20 years or more) on Sunday was travelling E on a two lane road with no shoulder that is very heavily used by motorists and has a speed limit of 60 in some places althougth I think it is 45 where the guy was hit. The road has sustained some damage due to recent floods. Avoiding pot holes may have contributed to the accident, but that is speculation on my part. It was also about 8 AM when the accident occurred. I think the sun should have been high enough in the sky to have not been a factor at that hour. The problem with this road is the high speeds that cars typically employ. I had to use it for work for about 10 days a couple months ago and every time I saw cyclists on it I scratched my head and asked myself why the hell were they here when they could have been on a much safer and more heavily used (by cyclists) road just one mile to the N. The road which I consider safer has it's problems but at least it is frequently used and has "Share the Road" signage.

I don't feel like either cyclist did anything really stupid, just that they could have made better choices and maybe they would still be alive. That good ol 20/20 hindsight really helps in cases like these. I hope they catch the douchebag that was involved in the hit and run and nail him/her to the wall.

Birddog, that is some good investigative reporting and helpful in putting at least those two incidents into context. They are still tragedies but it makes me feel a little bit better about the things I do to minimize risks - avoid rush hour rides, avoid busy roads, eliminate 60mph roads altogether, seek "cycling friendly" roads, wear bright jerseys and bright blinkies especially at dawn and dusk. While I avoid no shoulder roads most of the time I don't get too concerned when they are short stretches, traffic is at a bear minimum(1 car every 15-20 seconds or so) and drivers have good visibility to see you(i.e. long straightaways). I can't put stats to this but my guess is these things in the aggregate cut the risk of being hit substantially.

[drewski]

The grim reality is this:

1. There are a great deal of multi-tasking drivers out there. Cell phones,
people who are not 100% there mentally for whatever reason. I read some where that people who text message and drive actually get a rush
of dopamine, which gives you a temporary feeling of well-being.

2. So use a rear view mirror. Wear orange.

I am considering getting one of theseRock the bike down low glow (http://rockthebike.com/lights/downlowglow)

If you have a down low glow can you share your experience?

Still bicycling is such a fulfilling experience I am willing to play the
percentages.

Be on the lookout for persons who are very aggressive toward cyclists.
There are not many of them but I believe they exist in the same number
as a normal distribution. As soon as you have an editorial by someone
who does not like cyclists in your community newspaper be ready to
engage is some good ole' honest debating.

An example from the Charlotte NC creative loafing:

Cycling Epedemic article (http://charlotte.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/the_cycling_epidemic/Content?oid=996069)

With the increase in the number of cyclists around the country
there are those who are bound to see this as a negative development.

[drewski]

Yesterday morning here in Oklahoma City, a cyclist was found in a ditch after a hit and run. This morning, about 4 miles from where that happened, a guy gets hit from behind by a pickup. Two deaths on bikes in two days. It makes you think...




This citiation does not deal with cycling but it made me think of how
the feeling I have in my soul when I ride a bicycle. Also inspires
me not to accept the status quo:



Who are the majority? They are the cold people; those that have accepted the way it has to be and got on with their lives, doing what the culture tells them to do. The kind people understand that there is a better way to act, and they treat others with respect; but they are not angry—they will not change anything. The kind people are like those who march, and petition, and hope that things will get better. The angry people understand that there is a better way to live. The angry people are different: they have the potential to change things because they do not meekly accept the circumstances that civilization has forced upon them.



Inspirational reading in times of hopelessness for the plight of safe cycling in the USA (http://www.guernicamag.com/blog/1897/keith_farnish_anger_is_good/)

[gone]

The point is that nobody will be "happy" being run down by a motorist, but it seems better than other ways, like having a heart attack on the crapper. Going out doing something you love may not be poetic, but it seems, to me, that it is a fate easier to accept and be OK with. Everbody has to understand the risks, disagree with or being upset about the risks is unreasonnable. I used to sky dive when I was younger, but that is no longer a risk I want to take...not worth it to me now. Riding is a risk I take relative to how much I enjoy doing it. If that enjoyment diminishes to the point where I am unwilling to accept the risks, then I will adjust.

I understood your point when you first made it and agree that as far as how I'd feel about it, I'd feel better about dying doing something I love where I understand the risks and have accepted them. I was referring not to me (since I'd be dead in this context) but to the people who say "at least he was doing something he loved...". This implies a level of acceptance on their part and that's what pisses me off about the expression, especially in the context I gave where I've been run over and killed because someone was careless. I realize careless drivers are part of the risk we face (and accept) in cycling on the roads, I just think non-cyclists being so sanguine about it is part of the problem. If a person (with a family, people who care about them, a job, etc...) being killed on a bicycle provoked a little more outrage on the part of non-cyclists there might be a little less of it happening. Instead it's "oh well, at least they were doing what they loved", "s**t happens", "they knew the risks", etc., or even worse, that they somehow deserved it because "they shouldn't have been on the road anyway".

[Nil Else]

I try to avoid early morning and dusk where the sun can be in the eyes of the motorist. Despite being half blinded, they don't slow down.

I also am amazed at how many cyclists wear dark color jerseys and helmets. Hi-vis jerseys go a long way. Not stylish (in some circles) but hell, neither is laying on the side of the road injured. :bike:

I AVOID rush hours, and, yeah, Hi-Vis. I live in a community where many aging folks retire and many continues to work. Most of my short rides are in and around the area and, mostly, roads around here are dead silent with barely any cars except for few golf carts.

However in rush hours it gets surprisingly crazy. It's the combination of everything. I'm no spring chicken but, I found out, age means nuthin as far as driving like Mario Andretti.... heck I recently saw my 80+++ neighbor lady driving 100 something mph in her shiny red Lexus coupe blowing by me on the local tollway! Like I said it's the combination of everything that's deadly...

[rugbysecondrow]

I understood your point when you first made it and agree that as far as how I'd feel about it, I'd feel better about dying doing something I love where I understand the risks and have accepted them. I was referring not to me (since I'd be dead in this context) but to the people who say "at least he was doing something he loved...". This implies a level of acceptance on their part and that's what pisses me off about the expression, especially in the context I gave where I've been run over and killed because someone was careless. I realize careless drivers are part of the risk we face (and accept) in cycling on the roads, I just think non-cyclists being so sanguine about it is part of the problem. If a person (with a family, people who care about them, a job, etc...) being killed on a bicycle provoked a little more outrage on the part of non-cyclists there might be a little less of it happening. Instead it's "oh well, at least they were doing what they loved", "s**t happens", "they knew the risks", "they shouldn't have been on the road anyway", etc.


When a person on a motorcyclist dies on the road, what is the response? What about a skydiver? Organ donors, that is what they call motorcyclists. Dumbass is what the call skydivers. I don't feel we are any different nor should we hold society to a different standard. We are at a phsical disadvantage, and at a disadvantage because we lack the ability to actually be part of traffic in most instances. We expect ALL cars to work around our agenda and what WE want...is that reasonable in all instances? Is it reasonable to expect 100% attentiveness at all times by motorists? Other motorists do not expect it, that is why there are seat belts, front and side airbags, crumple zones etc. Non-cyclists accept the inattentiveness and the opportunity for accidents, but the results are not typically catastrophic. We should accept the same inattentiveness knowing that the resluts involving us ARE catastrophic. We know that motorists lack attention at times, to varying degrees, for varying reasons. Sure, people text and that is more dangerous, so is talking on the phone, but people on bikes were killed before the invention of the cell phone. Whether it was the radio, kids in the back seat, cross traffic that captures their attention, the sun, day dreaming about going for a ride when they get home...pretty much anything. People are not perfect, they act in imperfect ways, imperfect things happen which makes the world we live in, SUPRISE, imperfect. These imperfections have an element of risk which we accept as the cost of doing business.

I don't like it, I would rather it not be like this, but it is. Maybe I am not as adversarial about this as you or others. Maybe I live in a place where the cyclists, local government and motorists tend to coexist well. Maybe all that helps me ride in peace without being pissed about what might be, and accept that if it happens, it was a good ride.

[Dekonick]

"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. Where failure is an option."


"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. Making a success of failure since 1946."


"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. If I fail to connect you to your party, we'll analyze why. Promise."


"Good morning, Failure Analysis Associates. Helping people fail, scientifically."

Made me laugh to the point I almost spilled my coffee! :beer: