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View Full Version : Rennshaw kicked out of tour


davidlee
07-15-2010, 11:53 AM
Don't watch video if you don't want to know today's finish!
Zoinks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoZkNbxojKw

Details
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/renshaw-kicked-out-of-tour-de-france

anomaly
07-15-2010, 11:56 AM
" much like in a keirin. But we are in the sport of cycling..."

Isn't keirin also cycling?

ahumblecycler
07-15-2010, 12:01 PM
Wow ... that was bad. I cannot say whether he should have been thrown out or not, but I thought it was dirty.

Cav's finished looked great; too bad people will question whether he truly have won considering how early he took to the sprint.

rugbysecondrow
07-15-2010, 12:08 PM
Should the title of this thread have spoiler or some sort of different heading for those who are DVRing?

FL_MarkD
07-15-2010, 12:10 PM
Renshaw was really in the wrong for blocking Farrar. He let Cav go, looked left, saw the Garmin rider and then moved further left to block him into the barriers. The HTC team is not well liked by the other sprinters. Didn't the peloton do a starting line boycott of Cav after he took down the sprinters earlier this year?

Mark

JMerring
07-15-2010, 12:21 PM
It didn't look good at all. Tossing him was the right move.

Charles M
07-15-2010, 12:35 PM
The HTC team is not well liked because they tend to beat other people...

Was it wrong? sure.

Was it worse than lots of other things that get people a penalty but not kicked? yep.




Farrar simply cant beat Cav. I like him. Great person and he'll likely develope more, but I have ZERO respect for the team after Vaughters Bitched up and chased down Hincapie (past tour) and then couldn't manage to stand up and admit it...

That's the definition of bitch to me... Garmin's biggest effort was simply to keep someone else from winning when they had no chance of beneft. Renshaw's effort was at least defending something other than a small di*#...

DukeHorn
07-15-2010, 12:40 PM
[SPOILER ALERT]

So Garmin is a bitch for playing within the rules and chasing down a breakaway, and Renshaw is OK for headbutting a Garmin rider and then funneling Farrar into the barrier.

Nice logic......

Why don't we just say the two teams dislike each other, will screw with each other and if one is caught breaking the rules, then they deserved to be kicked out.

johnnymossville
07-15-2010, 12:45 PM
He's a rolling definition of butthead. I think websters needs to be updated to add Rennshaw as a synonym.

JohnHemlock
07-15-2010, 12:48 PM
Garmin is perhaps the least interesting team in the peloton and Farrar couldn't have caught Cav with a Kawasaki.

But Renshaw wasn't even sly, he should get bounced just for obviousness.

Tim
07-15-2010, 01:12 PM
Robbie McEwen was famous for head-butting in a sprint a few years ago- looks like Renshaw has been taking lesson! If I remember correctly though, McEwen was not tossed from the race, only relegated to last spot on the day. That's probably what should have happened to Renshaw. He didn't crash anyone and sprinting at the tour is often full of pushing and shoving- it's what these guys are used to.

MattTuck
07-15-2010, 01:21 PM
Robbie McEwen was famous for head-butting in a sprint a few years ago- looks like Renshaw has been taking lesson! If I remember correctly though, McEwen was not tossed from the race, only relegated to last spot on the day. That's probably what should have happened to Renshaw. He didn't crash anyone and sprinting at the tour is often full of pushing and shoving- it's what these guys are used to.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPybqwcFSbc

Not sure that it was as bad.

pdmtong
07-15-2010, 01:22 PM
Tyler and Julian took the "high road" in the post race interviews.
relegated, yes. kicked out? I don't agree.

all this at 40mph? holy crap...

avalonracing
07-15-2010, 01:24 PM
The Garmin riders were interviewed immediately after the sprint (they were still panting on camera). They were both really cool about it considering. Neither were calling names or even bitching about foul play.

If it happened to me or one of my teammates and it was still 2 minutes after the finish I would still be in fight or flight mode and it would take everything that I have not to get in someones face.

Kudos to Garmin for keeping cool!

BillG
07-15-2010, 01:27 PM
Robbie McEwen was famous for head-butting in a sprint a few years ago- looks like Renshaw has been taking lesson! If I remember correctly though, McEwen was not tossed from the race, only relegated to last spot on the day. That's probably what should have happened to Renshaw. He didn't crash anyone and sprinting at the tour is often full of pushing and shoving- it's what these guys are used to.

It's not the head butting, it's the cutting off Farrar into the barrier. I never saw Robbie do that. But you're right, the headbutting in itself maybe shouldn't have got him punted.

They should have a yellow card, and then two gets you booted.

BillG
07-15-2010, 01:28 PM
The HTC team is not well liked because they tend to beat other people...

Was it wrong? sure.

Was it worse than lots of other things that get people a penalty but not kicked? yep.




Farrar simply cant beat Cav. I like him. Great person and he'll likely develope more, but I have ZERO respect for the team after Vaughters Bitched up and chased down Hincapie (past tour) and then couldn't manage to stand up and admit it...

That's the definition of bitch to me... Garmin's biggest effort was simply to keep someone else from winning when they had no chance of beneft. Renshaw's effort was at least defending something other than a small di*#...

There's a big damned difference between a lame chase down and cutting off someone in a high speed sprint, Snoop.

SEABREEZE
07-15-2010, 01:38 PM
Head butting, and forcing Farrar into barries, in my book someone needs to get in Renshaw's face. This way we may have second thoughts about doing it again.

Well he will have to contemplate his actions, being thrown off the tour...

Still needed someone in his face..

Shoot a dirty game of pool, expect the consequences...

MarcusPless
07-15-2010, 01:46 PM
If it's your sprinter head-butting and riding a competitor into the barrier then relegating him might be a reasonable thing to do. Relegating the lead out man (especially after the lead out man's sprinter takes the win) is useless. He'll just be back to do it again at the next sprint. He needed to be kicked out. That said, I still don't think Farrar is in the same league as Cav. No matter how many times Paul and Phil mention Tyler's name. :D

William
07-15-2010, 01:52 PM
It's not the head butting, it's the cutting off Farrar into the barrier. I never saw Robbie do that. But you're right, the headbutting in itself maybe shouldn't have got him punted.

They should have a yellow card, and then two gets you booted.

Agreed.

If your a sprinter you know elbows and head butts are part of the game in the group sprint. Cutting off and riding folks into the gutter is another matter. As was pointed out, rules state you hold your line when your getting passed and falling back. Renshaw clearly looked over his shoulder, saw Farrar, and moved to the left sqeezing him toward the barriers.




William

JohnHemlock
07-15-2010, 01:53 PM
That said, I still don't think Farrar is in the same league as Cav. No matter how many times Paul and Phil mention Tyler's name. :D

True dat. Every day they pump him up and every day he doesn't fire.

retrogrouchy
07-15-2010, 01:58 PM
It's not the head butting, it's the cutting off Farrar into the barrier. I never saw Robbie do that. But you're right, the headbutting in itself maybe shouldn't have got him punted.

They should have a yellow card, and then two gets you booted.

Booting Renshaw was absolutely the right decision, due primarily to the blocking of Ferrar, not the head-butting of Dean, though that was stoopid. He looked directly at Tyler, then tried to smash him into the barriers at perhaps nearly 50 mph. Tyler could have been killed.

As Paul Sherwen says, there is lots of argy-bargy that goes on in a sprint finish. Nothing unusual about that, but Renshaw got exactly what he deserved for pulling something that dumb. :p

mschol17
07-15-2010, 02:05 PM
Booting Renshaw was absolutely the right decision, due primarily to the blocking of Ferrar, not the head-butting of Dean, though that was stoopid. He looked directly at Tyler, then tried to smash him into the barriers at perhaps nearly 50 mph. Tyler could have been killed.

As Paul Sherwen says, there is lots of argy-bargy that goes on in a sprint finish. Nothing unusual about that, but Renshaw got exactly what he deserved for pulling something that dumb. :p

Come on, killed? Last year Cav cut off Thor and was just relegated to last in the spint, not kicked out.

Look at the video from above and you'll see Dean cuts off Renshaw. Renshaw head butts him to try to continue in a straight line.

retrogrouchy
07-15-2010, 02:09 PM
Come on, killed? Last year Cav cut off Thor and was just relegated to last in the spint, not kicked out.

Look at the video from above and you'll see Dean cuts off Renshaw. Renshaw head butts him to try to continue in a straight line.

A deep-enough cut in a fore-arm (or worse, a head injury...) from hitting a barrier at 40+ mph, you betcha, Sarah! I saw Dean keeping his line, then bozo head-butting him three times, followed by said bozo looking directly at Tyler, and then trying to force him into the gutter. Apparently the race officials saw what I saw. ;)

GregL
07-15-2010, 02:09 PM
Sprinting is like NASCAR, "rubbing is racing". Hips, elbows, and heads routinely bump. Taking someone into the barriers is a no-no. The pros will push the rules and the officials as far as they can. Renshaw pushed today, and he found out where the limit was.

I was officiating at a Pro-1-2 crit a few years back. A well known (if not well liked...) former euro pro was in the field. Sprinting for a mid-race prime, he intentionally ran another rider toward the curb. The other officials and I smiled as we relegated him, awarding the prime to the other rider. When the finishing sprint came a few laps later, Mr. euro pro played nice and keep his line straight. Like a little kid, he just had to find out where the limits were...

Regards,
Greg

retrogrouchy
07-15-2010, 02:10 PM
Sprinting is like NASCAR, "rubbing is racing". Hips, elbows, and heads routinely bump. Taking someone into the barriers is a no-no. The pros will push the rules and the officials as far as they can. Renshaw pushed today, and he found out where the limit was.

I was officiating at a Pro-1-2 crit a few years back. A well known (if not well liked...) former euro pro was in the field. Sprinting for a mid-race prime, he intentionally ran another rider toward the curb. The other officials and I smiled as we relegated him, awarding the prime to the other rider. When the finishing sprint came a few laps later, Mr. euro pro played nice and keep his line straight. Like a little kid, he just had to find out where the limits were...

Regards,
Greg

'zackly. Well-said.

sevencyclist
07-15-2010, 02:11 PM
If it were up to me, I would have negated the win by Cavendish since there was unfair play from his team.

retrogrouchy
07-15-2010, 02:13 PM
If it were up to me, I would have negated the win by Cavendish since there was unfair play from his team.

That's really,really tough to do. I would love to see that, too, but it's probably not realistic to expect it. I think Tyler was probably prevented from finishing second, fwiw.

pdmtong
07-15-2010, 02:18 PM
Cav's first reaction (http://www.sporza.be/cm/sporza/videozone/MG_Tour/MG_verslagen_nieuws/1.826673)

MattTuck
07-15-2010, 02:18 PM
That said, I still don't think Farrar is in the same league as Cav. No matter how many times Paul and Phil mention Tyler's name. :D

Eh, the guy is American on an American team on an American network. VS. probably has phil and paul contractually obligated to say his name x number of times per hour. Or perhaps, they are paid piece-meal for every time they mention an American's name.


To be fair, Cav is certainly great up to this point. I'm not sure how great he'll be with out his lead out man. And I'm not sure how great TF would be if he didn't break his wrist.

On the bright side, the sprints are more interesting than ever, just hope no one pulls any Cinzano tactics.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_hSZo5vjiPmQ/Sd5CpxCRYxI/AAAAAAAAFzE/85EWzGzOnTo/s720/Crash%20002.JPG

sevencyclist
07-15-2010, 02:19 PM
That's really,really tough to do. I would love to see that, too, but it's probably not realistic to expect it. I think Tyler was probably prevented from finishing second, fwiw.
I agree that it might be hard to do, but since cycling is a team sport, the action of everyone on the team contributes to the achievements of the team.

Imagine if a Tour de France win (daily and GC) is negated by one single doper on the team, then teams would be more responsible and run a tighter ship in controlling the dopers. Fantasy, I know, but certainly worthwhile pondering.

rcnute
07-15-2010, 02:23 PM
Isn't Farrar throwing his left elbow a split second before Renshaw head-butts him?

Marcusaurelius
07-15-2010, 02:24 PM
I think some must have saw a different race. I thought Julian Dean was the one trying to bump Mark Renshaw off his line. I doubt he deliberately tried to cut off Tyler Farrar. I think throwing him out of the race is just a little ridiculous for a little head butt and going a bit off his line.

Tyler Farrar also had no chance of beating Mark Cavendish anyway.


I am also amazed that two riders can get into a fight and exchange blows (a few even with a front wheel) yet they just received a fine. I don't see how they can get a fine and Mark Renshaw gets booted.

dnades
07-15-2010, 02:24 PM
Does Renshaw have an ability to appeal or is it final? When the announcers(Sean Kelly and someone else) were talking about the finish earlier today they seemed to think it was business as usual. Need to see a clip from the helicopter above to really figure out if Dean cut off Renshaw or if it was the other way around. I saw it earlier but didn't pay attention to the headbutting issue. Isn't it the lead out man's job to not pitch someone into the barrier but to get in the competitions way after he sends off his man? I mean it is a mess there and a lot is happening quicker than sh**. Whoever is in front has right of way, no? There is no way Renshaw would've knowingly pushed Farrar into the barriers- that **** would haunt you your entire career if you were like that. I always hate watching playback from the comfort of an easy chair as you are getting information that the people in the video simply did not have time to assimilate. What did Dean have to say about it?

retrogrouchy
07-15-2010, 02:24 PM
If it's your sprinter head-butting and riding a competitor into the barrier then relegating him might be a reasonable thing to do. Relegating the lead out man (especially after the lead out man's sprinter takes the win) is useless. He'll just be back to do it again at the next sprint. He needed to be kicked out. That said, I still don't think Farrar is in the same league as Cav. No matter how many times Paul and Phil mention Tyler's name. :D

Agreed. Mark's position is so low that he is significantly more aero than anyone else. Couple that with his massive sprinting power, and he's nearly impossible to beat if the lead-out is timed right. That said, Tyler has been very close more than once, so it's certainly possible that he could pull it off. I guess he could do it if he was on a Peg, perhaps...?

thwart
07-15-2010, 02:25 PM
Farrar simply cant beat Cav. Hard to know when you've got Cav's goons running him into the barriers, I'd say.

retrogrouchy
07-15-2010, 02:25 PM
I think some must have saw a different race. I thought Julian Dean was the one trying to bump Mark Renshaw off his line. I doubt he deliberately tried to cut off Tyler Farrar. I think throwing him out of the race is just a little ridiculous for a little head butt and going a bit off his line.

Tyler Farrar also had no chance of beating Mark Cavendish anyway.


I am also amazed that two riders can get into a fight and exchange blows (a few even with a front wheel) yet they just received a fine. I don't see how they can get a fine and Mark Renshaw gets booted.

Apples and watermelons....

retrogrouchy
07-15-2010, 02:29 PM
Does Renshaw have an ability to appeal or is it final? When the announcers(Sean Kelly and someone else) were talking about the finish earlier today they seemed to think it was business as usual. Need to see a clip from the helicopter above to really figure out if Dean cut off Renshaw or if it was the other way around. I saw it earlier but didn't pay attention to the headbutting issue. Isn't it the lead out man's job to not pitch someone into the barrier but to get in the competitions way after he sends off his man? I mean it is a mess there and a lot is happening quicker than sh**. Whoever is in front has right of way, no? There is no way Renshaw would've knowingly pushed Farrar into the barriers- that **** would haunt you your entire career if you were like that. I always hate watching playback from the comfort of an easy chair as you are getting information that the people in the video simply did not have time to assimilate. What did Dean have to say about it?

Julian took the high road. :cool:

CHF
07-15-2010, 02:37 PM
I think the reason Rennshaw gets the boot today is because it was way more than the usual contact in a sprint. Everyone expects the lead out guys to fight for the best line for their sprinter. But multiple head butts and impeding another sprinter is over the fine line that separates competition from poor sportsmanship. It's up to the race to manage that, and they obviously want a cleaner race.

I don't think we'll ever really know about Farrar v Cavendish. They keep trading form. Cav looked like garbage at the beginning of the year while Farrar was doing well (2 stages at the Giro). Now Cav is in form and Farrar has a wrist injury that is probably keeping him from performing at his best. ATMO, Cav is a d-bag and I don't particularly care for him and Tyler needs to drop the euro trash styling before I can really get behind him.

McQueen
07-15-2010, 02:43 PM
I guess I'm of the opinion that some punishment was warranted, and maybe it's expulsion from the tour, however, when a rider hoists his front wheel over his head to beat another rider with said wheel, and comes away with a 400 swiss franc fine (whatever that is), then it's hard to reconcile the two levels of punishment.

MattTuck
07-15-2010, 02:54 PM
I guess I'm of the opinion that some punishment was warranted, and maybe it's expulsion from the tour, however, when a rider hoists his front wheel over his head to beat another rider with said wheel, and comes away with a 400 swiss franc fine (whatever that is), then it's hard to reconcile the two levels of punishment.

One was during the race, the other was not. Not saying that the two combatants shouldn't have been tossed also, but that is how they're different. One could have and perhaps did affect the results of the sporting event.

McQueen
07-15-2010, 03:23 PM
One was during the race, the other was not. Not saying that the two combatants shouldn't have been tossed also, but that is how they're different. One could have and perhaps did affect the results of the sporting event.

Do they have written rules stipulating much harsher offenses for riders bumping/headbutting in races, versus whatever they do after they've crossed the finish line? Outside of anything written to the contrary, it's your opinion that thats why the difference in treatment, and that the treatment was justified.

I get that you can argue that as the reason, but in my eyes, I can't come to terms with the difference in treatment by the officials. You can relegate Renshaw to last, you can fine him, you can fine the team, there are all sorts of stuff you can do. Throwing him out of the Tour seems harsh.

If two things happened at a local criterium - a. someone cuts another rider off at the finish during the sprint and makes contact, or b. riders cross the line and get into a fist fight. I bet our local officials are more likely to throw the people fighting out of the race (race series), but relegate the guy who cut the guy off in the sprint.

BillG
07-15-2010, 03:26 PM
If two things happened at a local criterium - a. someone cuts another rider off at the finish during the sprint and makes contact, or b. riders cross the line and get into a fist fight. I bet our local officials are more likely to throw the people fighting out of the race (race series), but relegate the guy who cut the guy off in the sprint.


But at a local crit everyone wants to win. Relegation does nothing to a dedicated lead out man.

McQueen
07-15-2010, 03:35 PM
But at a local crit everyone wants to win. Relegation does nothing to a dedicated lead out man.

Not necessarily the case, but nonetheless.. Is there a history of ejections from the TDF, and is that the case that if Renshaw isn't hurt by the relegation then you have to step up the punishment to removal from the tour?

If Cavendish does the same thing in his sprint to the finish, you would suggest that he might be relegated to last place, but remain in the race because that took away the win, but the same punishment to Renshaw isn't effective?

I don't know, you get into a lot of gray area with that line of thinking.

Charles M
07-15-2010, 03:38 PM
I think some must have saw a different race. I thought Julian Dean was the one trying to bump Mark Renshaw off his line. I doubt he deliberately tried to cut off Tyler Farrar. I think throwing him out of the race is just a little ridiculous for a little head butt and going a bit off his line.

Tyler Farrar also had no chance of beating Mark Cavendish anyway.


I am also amazed that two riders can get into a fight and exchange blows (a few even with a front wheel) yet they just received a fine. I don't see how they can get a fine and Mark Renshaw gets booted.


You saw what lots of people did...


Better perspective is Alesandro Petacci...

"I saw Renshaw going head to head with Julian Dean but I also saw Dean trying to box Renshaw in."



Renshaw's response to Dean's barging was more spectacular for sure, but it wasn't the worst that's happened.





Farrar's been loosing ground just trying to draft, even on days without contact...

That's in no small amount due to his early crashes and hats off for doing as well as he has been. But's it's not been anything resembling close yet.



Sure it happened right out front, but you saw Dean pick a fight with the wrong guy (and fare about as well versus Renshaw as Farrar has against Cav)... Relegate em to the back, but don't throw em out

BillG
07-15-2010, 03:45 PM
Not necessarily the case, but nonetheless.. Is there a history of ejections from the TDF, and is that the case that if Renshaw isn't hurt by the relegation then you have to step up the punishment to removal from the tour?

If Cavendish does the same thing in his sprint to the finish, you would suggest that he might be relegated to last place, but remain in the race because that took away the win, but the same punishment to Renshaw isn't effective?

I don't know, you get into a lot of gray area with that line of thinking.

They should have a yellow card system and an appeal. It's a big deal to kick out someone who's just hauled their big body over the Madeleine and who is crucial for the lead out train. But, they don't have a yellow card so they have to act strongly sometimes.

retrogrouchy
07-15-2010, 04:00 PM
Not necessarily the case, but nonetheless.. Is there a history of ejections from the TDF, and is that the case that if Renshaw isn't hurt by the relegation then you have to step up the punishment to removal from the tour?

If Cavendish does the same thing in his sprint to the finish, you would suggest that he might be relegated to last place, but remain in the race because that took away the win, but the same punishment to Renshaw isn't effective?

I don't know, you get into a lot of gray area with that line of thinking.

What you or I think doesn't really matter in the end, because we don't run Le Tour.

The Tour's promoters worry about one thing primarily - a very large pile of Euros (uh, that's the money, btw). If someone seriously endangers that, well, look out. That said, the punishment was appropriate in this case imo. If you can't see the difference between this incident and the rider flinging a wheel around, post-race, then you're not paying attention atmo. Big picture and all that rot. :rolleyes:

harlond
07-15-2010, 04:05 PM
You saw what lots of people did...


Better perspective is Alesandro Petacci...

"I saw Renshaw going head to head with Julian Dean but I also saw Dean trying to box Renshaw in."



Renshaw's response to Dean's barging was more spectacular for sure, but it wasn't the worst that's happened.





Farrar's been loosing ground just trying to draft, even on days without contact...

That's in no small amount due to his early crashes and hats off for doing as well as he has been. But's it's not been anything resembling close yet.



Sure it happened right out front, but you saw Dean pick a fight with the wrong guy (and fare about as well versus Renshaw as Farrar has against Cav)... Relegate em to the back, but don't throw em outI might agree with you, especially since Dean impinged on Renshaw's line to start with. It's Renshaw's next move that's the problem. After he's already head-butted Dean 3 times, Renshaw looks to his left, sees Farrar, moves strongly left toward the barrier, and cuts Farrar off, forcing Farrar not only to stop his sprint but to push Renshaw back so as to keep himself up. Sure, Farrar wasn't going to catch Cav, but that combination of actions by Renshaw calls for a strong response. Relegation of a leadout man just isn't going to do it. A whopping fine might do it, but I'm not sure how much scope the commissars have on that score.

SEABREEZE
07-15-2010, 04:52 PM
We all can keep debating the incident...

Bottom line, he was thrown out, but his sacrifice enabled his team member to win.. Is it right, that can be debated...


Some commented that Cav is better Sprinter than Ferrar, Ferrar cant beat Cav. That may be true, but I would like to see 100% Ferrar, not with a broken arm/rist, competing againt Cav.. Everthing being equal... Then comments can be made.

Yes Ferrar won two sprints in the Gero, and Cav wasnt doing so well in the beginning of the Tour.

In all fairness to Cav just a month earlier he lost his Grandmother, apparently when he got his head straight, he came back to the guy we all know..

mike p
07-15-2010, 04:52 PM
Anyone have a link to the overhead view, I can't seem to find it?

Thanks
mike

BillG
07-15-2010, 04:56 PM
Does anyone know when the last time was that someone was kicked out of the tour for a dangerous sprint?

velobran
07-15-2010, 05:48 PM
The Garmin riders were interviewed immediately after the sprint (they were still panting on camera). They were both really cool about it considering. Neither were calling names or even bitching about foul play.

If it happened to me or one of my teammates and it was still 2 minutes after the finish I would still be in fight or flight mode and it would take everything that I have not to get in someones face.

Kudos to Garmin for keeping cool!

Dean was interviewed talking about how bad of a move it was and could have caused a crash. Vaughters and White went to the officials to complain, but they had already made the decision to boot him.

mike p
07-15-2010, 06:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7t1uapa7jo

Sounds a little like complaining to me.

Mike

mike p
07-15-2010, 07:41 PM
Renshaw speaks

Mike



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsenPMWISAM

I'm New Here
07-15-2010, 08:45 PM
There is an overhead view about half way through this:

http://www.steephill.tv/players/versus4/?title=tdf-2010-st11-highlights&id=k2jI0AR4CWMwlQvxYv_I6szeInxGUlLL/500/720/

retrogrouchy
07-15-2010, 09:02 PM
Renshaw speaks

Mike



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsenPMWISAM

I'm sorry for him and for his team that he's been sent home, but for him to say that he didn't see Tyler is highly dubious indeed. :no:

Steve in SLO
07-15-2010, 09:32 PM
I'm sorry for him and for his team that he's been sent home, but for him to say that he didn't see Tyler is highly dubious indeed. :no:
Lead out men as well as all good sprinters have a keenly developed sense of what and who's around them. If he didn't know Tyler was there after looking in his direction, then his team should think twice about having such an oblivious rider in the mix :bike:

azrider
07-15-2010, 10:01 PM
Renshaw speaks

Mike



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsenPMWISAM


what a turd...i'm not even a Farrar fan but the guy knows he's in the wrong and is trying to play the victim. HTC is a bunch of as5holes with Cav leading the way.

acorn_user
07-15-2010, 10:25 PM
One was during the race, the other was not. Not saying that the two combatants shouldn't have been tossed also, but that is how they're different. One could have and perhaps did affect the results of the sporting event.


One of my team mates got a year ban for fighting after a pro-race here. Absurd!

thendenjeck
07-15-2010, 10:41 PM
"seems to me" that similar things probably go on all the time, and that his only real crime was making it obvious enough to see on tv.

Marcusaurelius
07-15-2010, 10:50 PM
What you or I think doesn't really matter in the end, because we don't run Le Tour.

The Tour's promoters worry about one thing primarily - a very large pile of Euros (uh, that's the money, btw). If someone seriously endangers that, well, look out. That said, the punishment was appropriate in this case imo. If you can't see the difference between this incident and the rider flinging a wheel around, post-race, then you're not paying attention atmo. Big picture and all that rot. :rolleyes:

Flinging his wheel around? It was fist fight. They threw punches and he hit him with the wheel--twice. if you can't see that then you are not paying attention.

bkboom123
07-15-2010, 10:54 PM
the tour is great because it is all about being in the spotlight and gaining more of the spotlight for a team to appease the sponsors. Everyone always makes a big deal about the sprinters and all but really......Cav started the day in 151st place, I believe he has now moved up to 140 something place, a true contender :rolleyes: . I really dont care if he or a teammate is thrown out. They have no shot at winning the race.

Now if Levi, Andy Schleck, or Contador were thrown out of the race, that would be something to pick and pry apart.......because they actually have a shot at winning "le tour".

Side note: I cant imagine going 45 mph and having guys headbutting me and trying to push me into a barrier. I would be rippin' pissed. The garmin guys handled it far better then I would have.

pbjbike
07-15-2010, 11:06 PM
Side note: I cant imagine going 45 mph and having guys headbutting me and trying to push me into a barrier. I would be rippin' pissed. The garmin guys handled it far better then I would have.

Truly amazing there aren't more punches thrown after races.

rcnute
07-16-2010, 12:22 AM
Truly amazing there aren't more punches thrown after races.

Bunch of tired skinny guys who weigh a buck thirty.

Elefantino
07-16-2010, 01:20 AM
Unless Renshaw has eyes on the side of his head, he didn't "look directly at Farrar" and/or try to run him into the barriers. It sounds good, but nuh-uh.

Look at the overhead shot. Slowly. He glanced to see if he was clear to move. From the front shot it looks as if he looks at Farrar, but he didn't. If anything, the bigger d!ck move was by Petacchi, who came over and into Farrar's line, forcing Farrar to stop pedaling. (And he still took third? Amazing.)

That said, the third head butt got Renshaw tossed.

rustychisel
07-16-2010, 01:50 AM
We'll never 'know' whether Renshaw saw or didn't, and blocked deliberately or not, but he crossed a line in the heat of the moment. I expected cooler heads might prevail on this forum, especially given their gargantuan knowledge of racing and tactics. Julian Dean clearly pushed in on Renshaw (see the helicopter video) and was headbutted, and Renshaw clearly impeded Tyler Farrar at the barrier, but whether the cumulative offense warranted expulsion I'm not so sure. Some penalty, yes, probably, but probably also for Dean and maybe even Petacchi, who appeared in a post-race interview to think it was part of the sprint, part of the duel.

Disclaimer: I own one of Renshaw's old race bikes and it shows no signs of having been manhandled or headbutted, so bite me.

130R
07-16-2010, 04:21 AM
http://mayarobeach.com/vakara/Zidane-headbutt1.gif

it should only take one.

Climb01742
07-16-2010, 05:31 AM
a small sidelight: it's interesting post-stage to watch the podium presentations and see how BH/the badger reacts to the podium racer. he's been very animated with FC/sparticus, and with AS, and of course the french riders. but yesterday he barely acknowledged cav. who knows. but it certainly was different.

gemship
07-16-2010, 05:42 AM
a small sidelight: it's interesting post-stage to watch the podium presentations and see how BH/the badger reacts to the podium racer. he's been very animated with FC/sparticus, and with AS, and of course the french riders. but yesterday he barely acknowledged cav. who knows. but it certainly was different.


BH=moody, seems like a double standard.

cs124
07-16-2010, 05:52 AM
http://mayarobeach.com/vakara/Zidane-headbutt1.gif

it should only take one.

The headbutt (x3) was nothing. Renshaw and Dean are both superb bike handlers and neither would be troubled by that little bit of argy bargy. Dean wants the spot and Renshaw doesn't want to give it up, no big deal.

Taking your hands off the bars is a big deal when it comes to sprinting. That's what Theo Bos did when he dragged Darryl Impe off in Qatar or Turkey.

Watch what Farrar does as Renshaw swings left. :no:

Russell
07-16-2010, 07:44 AM
Renshaw was really in the wrong for blocking Farrar. He let Cav go, looked left, saw the Garmin rider and then moved further left to block him into the barriers. The HTC team is not well liked by the other sprinters. Didn't the peloton do a starting line boycott of Cav after he took down the sprinters earlier this year?

Mark

That was the offense that he deserved to get kicked out for. I don't feel the other was so outrageous since Dean moved into Renshaw. Renshaw was mostly bumping his head against Dean's shoulder to stop from being boxed in.

Russell
07-16-2010, 07:53 AM
check out the behind shot; it doesn't look as bad as from head on...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/15/mark-renshaw-head-butt-vi_n_648297.html

acorn_user
07-16-2010, 07:58 AM
Petacchi started his spring on the other side of Dean, then moved into the gap left by the Farrar/Renshaw incident to get on Cavendish's wheel. He did nothing wrong.

retrogrouchy
07-16-2010, 08:57 AM
That was the offense that he deserved to get kicked out for (intentionally blocking Farrar). I don't feel the other was so outrageous since Dean moved into Renshaw. Renshaw was mostly bumping his head against Dean's shoulder to stop from being boxed in.

Correct.

Now HTC's Directeur Sportif is lying through his teeth about it to the media. What a douchebag.

Renshaw WAS NOT ejected over the head-butting. That's being used as a red herring now. You have to hold your line in a sprint, and he veered hard to the left after he saw Farrar (because he was looking for vengeance, and made a stoopid split-second decision). End of story. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

retrogrouchy
07-16-2010, 09:06 AM
Flinging his wheel around? It was fist fight. They threw punches and he hit him with the wheel--twice. if you can't see that then you are not paying attention.

It was inconsequential, even humorous, involved two 'nobodys' and it was after the stage. It made for some great theatre / sound bites, but was not in any way significant. The usual pulling apart of the combatants was undertaken, fines were assessed, and the rest of the world moved on. Join 'em. No one's life was put in danger during the 'episode.'

Charles M
07-16-2010, 09:35 AM
check out the behind shot; it doesn't look as bad as from head on...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/15/mark-renshaw-head-butt-vi_n_648297.html


The top down view, especially in HD is the most telling...

Dean was all over Renshaw... And kept leaning in with the elbow till that last head butt...


And it's no place near clear that Renshaw wasnt just moving over to a place he thought was safe. Farrar wasn't even up to Renshaws rear wheel when he gave a quick glance to that side and when Farrar pushed him, he moved over and let him through.

johnnymossville
07-16-2010, 10:14 AM
There are so many similarities between Nascar and Bike Racing.

Russell
07-16-2010, 10:50 AM
There are so many similarities between Nascar and Bike Racing.

Now if only the bikes exploded into flames when there was a crash, cycling would be on all the major networks.

BillG
07-16-2010, 12:10 PM
Now if only the bikes exploded into flames when there was a crash, cycling would be on all the major networks.

Bring back magnesium frames!

DukeHorn
07-16-2010, 01:19 PM
and when Farrar pushed him, he moved over and let him through.

Because if Farrar didn't "push" him, Renshaw would have put him in the barrier. Going 40mph, Farrar doesn't have the "luxury" of figuring out where Renshaw is going to end up. And if Renshaw really didn't see Farrar :rolleyes: , then Farrar was even in more danger with that moron going way off line in a sprint.....

Charles M
07-16-2010, 06:47 PM
exactly like if Renshaw didnt push back on Dean, Dean was doing the same to him... Except that Renshaw didnt need to use his hands.

jvp
07-16-2010, 07:10 PM
headbutts aside, there was no one obstructing renshaw after cav took the lead - yet he veers left across farrar. Why stray from an open line other than to block?

bironi
07-16-2010, 07:14 PM
What would Horner say?

http://video.competitor.com/2010/07/cycling/chris-horner-stage-12/

Rueda Tropical
07-17-2010, 06:56 AM
Initialing Renshaw was holding his line and defending his space and the head butts were funny but Renshaw veering far off his line blocking the lane after Cav launched was not. He's been at it long enough to know exactly what he was doing. I think the right call was made.