Mattan wins - Hincapie abandons

[Roy E. Munson]

How ironic :D

[93legendti]

Yes, the support for a non-American is ironic.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I didn't want to go read the live coverage and enjoy it anyway.

There's a REASON the others put the word "spoiler" in their thread titles. :crap: :no: :butt:

BBD

[Roy E. Munson]

How can you read live coverage after the event is complete?

Sorry for ruining it for you all the same, I just couldn't resist :D

[christian]

Well, thanks for that...

- Christian

[BumbleBeeDave]

I just want to be given the courtesy of letting ME--not YOU--decide when I want to find out.

Give me a few minutes and a three-martini lunch and I'll get over it . . . :rolleyes:

BBD

[Roy E. Munson]

My bad, I apologized once. I know you're all p_issed, but I get the message, no need to write 100 posts repeating it over and over.

[Richard]

But then how will everyone achieve closure?

[jeffg]

Yes, the support for a non-American is ironic.


1. I would find a lack of support for Hincapie ironic, though it is like some segment of the German fan base that deep down wants Ullrich to win but just takes some pot shots at him (Schadenfreude, anyone) whenever he comes up short.

2. I wouldn't find support for a non-American per se to be ironic. I root for non-Americans on lots of occassions, though it still want Lance to continue to win the TdF, Hincapie to win a real classic, Levi to finish on the podium of the TdF and win some races, and will be rooting for Danielson to do something at the Giro (mountain stage?)

3. I think the irony Roy is referring to is all the talk about Nico and George, with George being thought of as a favorite and Nico not.

:confused: :confused:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . on martini #2 and am officially "Not Mad Anymore" . . . (Hic!) ;)

BBDave

[Kevan]

Me and Hincapie... using the same exact appoach... saving ourselves for another day.

[93legendti]

1. I would find a lack of support for Hincapie ironic, though it is like some segment of the German fan base that deep down wants Ullrich to win but just takes some pot shots at him (Schadenfreude, anyone) whenever he comes up short.

2. I wouldn't find support for a non-American per se to be ironic. I root for non-Americans on lots of occassions, though it still want Lance to continue to win the TdF, Hincapie to win a real classic, Levi to finish on the podium of the TdF and win some races, and will be rooting for Danielson to do something at the Giro (mountain stage?)

3. I think the irony Roy is referring to is all the talk about Nico and George, with George being thought of as a favorite and Nico not.

:confused: :confused:

Maybe I took it wrong, but I thought he was glad George Hincapie lost. The last few days George Hincapie was tarred and feathered here as an "idiot" and Nico was branded a hero. Yes I root for non-Americans too (i.e. Cunego in the Giro last year)--just not to beat Americans.

[jeffg]

Maybe I took it wrong, but I thought he was glad George Hincapie lost. The last few days George Hincapie was tarred and feathered here as an "idiot" and Nico was branded a hero. Yes I root for non-Americans too (i.e. Cunego in the Giro last year)--just not to beat Americans.

I think it's the Schadenfreude element. To keep with my Ullrich example, you should see how he is "tarred and feathered" by many people and journalists when he does not deliver. These same people would be on the bandwagon if he did win. I am not happy George did not win, but I am somehow not surprised. I was hoping K-B-K was a turning point in his season, so I#ll keep some hope for P-R on Sunday. If Hincapie doesn't win, I root for Tafi ...

[Climb01742]

guess the jerk was right. so, senor, what lottery numbers should i play? ;)

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . many on this forum have chosen to pick on George. I'm not sure exactly why. While I do think he's made some tactical mistakes in the past, they are no worse than any other riders who have lost races because of tactical mistakes. So he pulled out of G-W . . . so what? He's a more accomplished rider than anyone on this forum is ever going to be . . .

BBDave

[Big Dan]

I think most of us pull for George, met him a couple of times and he's really a nice guy.
The guy seems to have all the tools to win races, maybe on another team he would have.
As for Nico, I pull for him because he had some health problems years ago and had to stop racing.
Nothing against George or the USA........ :)
Let's see what happens next weekend..... :beer:

[BumbleBeeDave]

I've never met him, but he does indeed seem like a nice guy from the interviews I've seen and read . . .

" . . . maybe on another team he would have. " I agree with that also. But that criticism has been made before about anyone who rides for the "Lance Team." There's only one boss. Even if he never wins another of these races, he is still a great cyclist just for taking part--I'm still amazed by these photos I see of him on the cobbles, totally covered with mud. Why on earth would he do that? The guy's got b@lls! . . .

BBDave

[tch]

from what I've read (and as far as I'm concerned that's what really matters in life), but even I will say that I've seen him really screw up strategically/tactically SEVERAL times. I'm not a bike racer, don't really compete much, but even I have been able to see several times -- during a race -- that what he was doing or not doing was going to be wrong or unsuccessful.

My point would be -- he's a PROFESSIONAL. If I can figure it out, why can't he? And... several times it's not been circumstances (everyone gets knackered or flats or gets caught behind traffic sometime); it's been decisions.

He's got incredible physical talents -- but I've been left shaking my head about his decision-making several times.

[Andreu]

the right decisions it wouldn't matter what team he was on.

[CNote]

Yes, the support for a non-American is ironic.

Um....WHY? Is supporting a non-American tantamount to supporting the Iraqi insurgency? This is a sporting event we're talking about, not an act of treason.

[SGP]

[QUOTE=tch]
"My point would be -- he's a PROFESSIONAL. If I can figure it out, why can't he?"

i remember my grand father yelling at the radio "...how does a man who gets paid five figures to play a game drop a fly ball?!..."

[csb]

.

[shaq-d]

and i like georgie. 'course i suppose for u americans who root for'm, it's like watching a good guy u really like go down over and over (boston red sox) so u either hate'm or love'm with that kind of psychology/reality. but for a canuck with me who has no marbles whether georgie wins or loses, he seems like a good guy, and he is what he is.

sd

[jerk]

How ironic :D

nico
nico mattan!
nico
nico mattan!
hij is sneller dan een motorfiets!
hij is sneller dan een pijl!
nico
nico mattan!

[CNote]

hij is sneller dan een motorfiets!

"He is faster than a motorbike?"

[jerk]

he is faster than a motorbike!
he is faser than an arrow!

arrow=flecha get it?

[J.M. White]

If you read the live report on cyclingnews.com, you'll learn that Hincapie punctured. With the pace at the front so high, there was no way that he could have caught up. What of the other Disco guys? Hammond crashed out, and the others disappeared completely except for Cruz, who finished 16th.

Did you also see that Mattan was accused of cheating, by drafting behind the "neutral" Belgian race cars, and that the UCI is evaluating whether to include G-W in next year's Pro Tour? Talk about home field advantage!

Ack! This was truly a mess of a race.

[BumbleBeeDave]

While I have certainly seen this drafting trick used before and you can get into all the old arguments about home field-advantage, I still think it should not just be accepted today simply because it’s been done in the past.

Do you have any idea what the gap was between the leaders and Mattan? In all the races I’ve seen the marshalls usually pull the cars out of the gap when it gets down to 30 seconds or so. Was this race different? Additionally, not having the advantage of having seen it all on TV, was the road wide enough that the cars could have pulled to the side if ordered to?

As for George, if he punctured, end-of-story. How long to get the team car to him with a new wheel and get him chasing again? 30 seconds? A minute? There go HIS chances . . .

BBDave

[93legendti]

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/7798.0.html


"The most notable incidents involved crashes that took out Phonak's Fabrizio Guidi, Discovery Channel's Roger Hammond and T-Mobile's Andreas Klier ...
Hammond's teammate, George Hincapie, punctured at 103km and never regained contact with the front of the race. Instead, the American - who won here in 2001 - abandoned after more than 30 minutes of futile chasing into the wind, opting instead to reserve his legs for the cobbles of Roubaix. But Discovery's Antonio Cruz put in a valiant effort for the American team, finishing 16th, 10th out of a 25-man chase group that crossed the line just 18 seconds behind Mattan."

"Using the race vehicles that were stuck in a shrinking gap to his advantage, Mattan leapfrogged between caravan motorcycles and cars, ultimately surging past the Fassa rider in the final 150 meters to win in front of a partisan home crowd.

Still, many in attendance quickly pointed to the vehicles, upset that Mattan had illegally drafted, allowing him to recover and put together a finishing sprint."

[pretty pony]

Yes, the support for a non-American is ironic.


Yay!!! for America and Yay!!! for all Americans! Gorgeous George failed again and a Belgian won a Belgian race in…Belgium, how un-American is that? Nico Mattan should have expressed his support for our troops by letting Hincape win! I say we line up all of these non-American America-haters...and...Yay!!! for America! Whooppieee!

[BBB]

Um....WHY? Is supporting a non-American tantamount to supporting the Iraqi insurgency? This is a sporting event we're talking about, not an act of treason.

I agree. I can recall supporting Zabel in his quest for a 7th green jersey in the '02 Tour at the expense of McEwen simply on the basis that Zabel is one hell of a rider and (seemingly) a nice guy to boot. Does this make me un-Australian?

At the end of the day the Jerk has said he knows Mattan and is a friend - what is wrong with wanting a friend to win a bike race, albiet at the expense of one person in a country of 300 million people?

Perhaps for poetic justice's sake, and to keep everyone happy, Hincapie will win on Sunday.

[Climb01742]

who the heck cares where a rider is from? or who their parents were? or what religion, if any, they believe in? or whether they're gay, straight, republican, democrat, vegan, steak-eater, left-handed, right-handed or wet their bed as a kid?

though i know this is an ideal, and isn't always the case in reality, what i dig the most about sports is...

all that crap people care about in 99% of life falls away in sports...and on the road, the field, the track, the stadium, the floor or the ice or snow, all that matters is...

who's da best on that day?

and while i'm ranting...you know what makes me sick? all these freakin' cars and trucks in america that say "god bless america." how about, if there is a god, god bless everybody? peace, health, happiness, education and tivo for 6 billion people, not just 300 million.

[cs124]

and while i'm ranting...

Thank you Climb. "Rants" like this restore my faith in americans. :beer:

[Tom]

It takes a lot of damn courage to drive your car around suburban America with one of those stickers on. I'd have a lot more admiration if they had one of those and they were driving around, say, Caracas or Lima or Port-au-Prince or Manila or.... heh heh.

[jeffg]

who the heck cares where a rider is from? or who their parents were? or what religion, if any, they believe in? or whether they're gay, straight, republican, democrat, vegan, steak-eater, left-handed, right-handed or wet their bed as a kid?

though i know this is an ideal, and isn't always the case in reality, what i dig the most about sports is...

all that crap people care about in 99% of life falls away in sports...and on the road, the field, the track, the stadium, the floor or the ice or snow, all that matters is...

who's da best on that day?

and while i'm ranting...you know what makes me sick? all these freakin' cars and trucks in america that say "god bless america." how about, if there is a god, god bless everybody? peace, health, happiness, education and tivo for 6 billion people, not just 300 million.

Well, I guess then it doesn't matter to Red Sox supporters that they were better on only four days that matter in the last 80+ years. Before last year they all went home and said, "I am so happy that the Yankees were better!" and slept like babies.

Also, as of today the "worlds" in all sports, including the Olympics are hereby banned as nationalist, chauvinistic displays that do not accord with what should be in our enlightened age.

All kidding aside, the issue is that nationalist pride plays such a vital role in many sports, even individual ones. At least in something like Tennis the best can qualify for any Grand Slam regardless of any country affiliation. Cycling just aint that way folks. The TdF is the best example of affirmative action for the home country, not to mention things like Mattan's win yesterday.

My point, at least, was that people from the home country tend to alternatively heroize/demonize athletes from their home country. I have always liked Ullrich, and been very saddened by home he is consistently built up/torn down in Germany. How about the fans that spit on Jen Voigt since he did his job for CSC and helped reel in Ullrich? Sickening! Getting back to Hincapie, I like him, root for him, and wish him perhaps a little more success so that he and cycling get a little recognition in this country. If he wins P-R, maybe someone more people will know the race exists, not be as hostile towards cyclists in general, I don't know. Dbrk has his reasons for wanting cycling to remain a fringe sport in the US, and I respect those. On the other hand, I don't believe cycling will ever be a mainstream sport, but deserves at least as much attention as celebrity poker ... ;)

[BumbleBeeDave]

Pretty Pony . . . Just what we need--another friggin’ troll tryin’ to start another pointless argument . . . :crap:

BBDave

[jeffg]

and while i'm ranting...you know what makes me sick? all these freakin' cars and trucks in america that say "god bless america." how about, if there is a god, god bless everybody? peace, health, happiness, education and tivo for 6 billion people, not just 300 million.

Climb:

Since the American variant of civilization and prosperity is only supportable if not everyone has it, the stickers are perfectly consistent and honest in espousing privilege for "God's chosen country." Like, duh :crap:

[pretty pony]

Pretty Pony . . . Just what we need--another friggin’ troll tryin’ to start another pointless argument . . . :crap:

BBDave



No troll am I.
Though neither do I own a c50.
However I do want to present a certain, shall we say, "Legend" with a swift kick.
Want see a picture of my new BMW Sport Utility Vehicle?
No?
Gosh...why not?

My pick for this weekend. Van Petegem.

[William]

DANG IT ROY!!!

You could have let me have 3 or 4 days before you spilled the beans!!! :crap: :bike: :argue: :fight: :no: :butt: :mad: :(


JERK!

Oh wait, he didn't say anything.

William ;)

[Needs Help]

Pretty Pony . . . Just what we need--another friggin’ troll tryin’ to start another pointless argument . . . :crap:

BBDaveOne of the funniest posts I've read on here. I'm still chuckling. :)