Compact cranks who uses them??

[gauvink]

I'm ready to change out the drivetrain as its the original and has 12k on chain and cassette. ( yes its true)

looking to spin on more of the climbs I do around here ( Hills in lower and sometimes upper new england)

I must say I do enjoy the occasional crit now and then. What are you running for a rear cassette and hows it worked out for ya.

Thanks

[konstantkarma]

I run 2 cassettes on my compact 9 spd setup, depending on the terrain and degree of fitness. 11-23 for flatter and later season riding and a 12-27 for early season and hilly terrain. For example, I use the 12-27 for the Triple bypass, but primarily train with the 11-23. The ability to spin really helps these old knees.

[false_Aest]

I'm a nobody but I've noticed the following:

1) 53x17 is pretty close to 50x16 (ratio of 3.117 vs 3.125) and 39x27 is close to 34x23.

2) 34x25 and 34x27 make me wanna do wheelies up the hill.

3) The only time I "need" easier gears is when I have easier gears.

4) I don't have knee problems and I'm young

[130R]

i used to run a standard crankset (53- 39) with 12-23

but i'm moving from a flat region to a to a place with a lot of hills and steep grades.

i now have a compact crankset (50-34) with 11-23

they say compact cranks are lighter and easier on the knees. we'll see about that.

[bkboom123]

I used a Compact crank for the first bit of the season where I found I NEVER needed to shift out of the big ring, not even once. Previous to the start of this season, I always ran standard rings. I just got a great deal on a Sram Red crankset that I couldn't pass up.

Changed over to standard rings last week and find that I do quite a bit more shifting in the front. (I Run a 12-23 in the back)

I am toying with the idea of getting a chain catcher for the front, since I am somewhat scared of dumping my chain on longer ascents, though it has never happened.

I will say that I think going to a compact for a few months took away some of my overall, "mash" down on the gears, leg strength.....I do have young legs, so there is no issue of knee pain or anything of that nature to worry about.

[avalonracing]

Try them... You'll like them. Just make sure that you run an 11-23.

[zott28]

When I switched to Campy 11 I also switched to compact. I've have an 11-25 cassette. So I have a lot of changes going on to get used too. I definitely stay in my big ring up front more than I did with the 39-53. I had a good rhythm of down shifting out of my big in the front, and adjusting my rear at the same time to not feel like I jumped too many gears. I haven't found that rhythm on the compact, but that might be caused by the 11 speed as well. Some times when shifting the rear it doesn't seem like you've shifter because the gears are so close.
I'm sure by the end of the summer I forget what riding a 39-53 was like.

[Tim]

I've been running a compact for several years. A trip to the mountains of France was the reason to get one- but since then I've never taken it off. For flatter riding- swapping out the 34 for a 36 inner ring gives you lots of good gears. I can't push a 53 big ring any more and so the 50 big ring is fine for me. I have 12-25 in the back and that gets me up just about anything.
If you're young and strong you don't need one- everyone else can really benefit.

[ahumblecycler]

@zott28 ... the Campy stuff is treating you well?

I run both compact and standard doubles across bikes, and I honestly like both. Each serves their purpose, and I have the cranks set up the style of riding for that particular bike.

Compact 50/34 + 11/25
Standard 53/39 + 12/25 or 27

Cheers.

[Bud_E]

I used to handle everything around here with a low gear of 39-23 . At some point I became old and fat and now I have a 34-27 . Triple is just around the corner. But I don't race no more - just do the occasional century.

[Bob Ross]

4) I don't have knee problems and I'm young


I'll trade you my compact crankset for your #4.


I've found the compact 50/34 combined with an 11-26 cassette to be almost optimal for me. I still do a lot more shifting up front than would seem ideal when cruising in the 19-22 mph range, and I manage to spin out the 50,11 combination on a lot of long descents, but the ability to spin up nearly vertical walls makes up for that inelegance. Almost.

I'm just waiting for the day when SRAM makes a 16-speed "WiFly" drivetrain so I can have a 53/39 with 11-32 cassette and still have minimal jumps between cogs!

[gauvink]

You guys are all right, thanks for the info.

[zott28]

@zott28 ... the Campy stuff is treating you well?
Cheers.

I'm digging it, mostly for the hoods. It's not as crisp as my record 10, but it might just be that I need some more adjusting. I'm still not used to how tight the cassette is, a one gear shift is almost unnoticeable.

To not drift the thread too much. Mentally, having a compact has helped me a bit while climbing. There are hills here where I would be taxing myself in the 39-25. Now with the compact, looking down and knowing there are some extra gears left over on those same hills does something for my power. I know, lame.

[McQueen]

I'm riding a compact with 11/25 cassette and race crits.

I'm not missing the big chainring for crits. - I miss the bigger chainring on descents.

I used to ride a 39/23 for everything, and quite frankly now that I am able to sit and spin on the really steep stuff a little more, its more than a better trade off..

I do still worry about not having the 53... just can't point to anything in a race where it's impacted me. Certainly not our local wed night crits.

[blschaefer1]

When I switched to Campy 11 I also switched to compact. I've have an 11-25 cassette. So I have a lot of changes going on to get used too. I definitely stay in my big ring up front more than I did with the 39-53. I had a good rhythm of down shifting out of my big in the front, and adjusting my rear at the same time to not feel like I jumped too many gears. I haven't found that rhythm on the compact, but that might be caused by the 11 speed as well. Some times when shifting the rear it doesn't seem like you've shifter because the gears are so close.
I'm sure by the end of the summer I forget what riding a 39-53 was like.

Funny - I did just he opposite. When I had Campy 10, I ran 34-50 with 11/25 cassette. When Campy introduced 11 speed, they added a 12/27 cassette, and I went back to a 39-53. I like it - and the 39x27 combo is darn close to the 34x25. The smaller cogs are more useable in the small ring, and I don't need to trim the FD as often.

That said, a 36-50 with 11/25 might be the best of all worlds.

[endosch2]

I use a 50-34 compact with a 12-25 in northern new england - very hilly area. I use it for everything - typically max out on smaller climbs in the 34-21 but on really long epic climbs it is nice to spin the 34-25. I would not have a compact if I lived in a flat area - I have no idea why you would.

[OnceFast]

For those of you that spin out on the downhills on a 50-34 are you running an 11 on the back? A 50/11 is a bigger gear than a 53/12, so I'm a bit puzzled by the "downhill" comments.

[bigreen505]

Right now I'm running a 50/36 with a 12-25 or 11-28 depending on the terrain. If I was doing a lot of climbing I would use the 34t chainring, but the 36t is a much small jump and makes shifting easier. I don't think the shifts are any faster, just a smaller jump to adjust for.

[RADaines]

I use a 50-34 compact with a 12-25 in northern new england - very hilly area. I use it for everything - typically max out on smaller climbs in the 34-21 but on really long epic climbs it is nice to spin the 34-25. I would not have a compact if I lived in a flat area - I have no idea why you would.

This is my set up also with Record 11. I use the 34/25 combo quite often on the grades that exceed 12% or so. I haven't spun out in 50/12 yet but I generally don't pedal that hard on downhills.

[McQueen]

For those of you that spin out on the downhills on a 50-34 are you running an 11 on the back? A 50/11 is a bigger gear than a 53/12, so I'm a bit puzzled by the "downhill" comments.

I came from a 9 speed running a large gear of 53 /11 (55 - 11 for time trials) - but I don't rule out the possibility that it's all mental, that has me thinking I don't have enough gear. My riding has definitely changed over the years, and I am much less of a masher than I used to be. I'm still good with the decision on compact gearing - but every so often doubts crop up.

[palincss]

I'm ready to change out the drivetrain as its the original and has 12k on chain and cassette. ( yes its true)


You don't have to change the chain rings just because you're changing the chain and the cassette -- at least, not if you haven't damaged it. Have you damaged the chain rings?

[anomaly]

I do and I love it. I average about 50k climbing a month and I prefer to spin so it makes sense. I'm actually getting a 12-29 to replace my 12-25 for especially hilly days.

[gauvink]

You don't have to change the chain rings just because you're changing the chain and the cassette -- at least, not if you haven't damaged it. Have you damaged the chain rings?

There is definitely wear but no damage. No need to change the front rings ??

[palincss]

There is definitely wear but no damage. No need to change the front rings ??

If the teeth aren't deformed, then there's no need to change chain rings just because you've changed the chain and rear sprockets. There are many more teeth on chain rings than on cassette sprockets, so the teeth wear much less quickly than they do in back.

Of course, if you're determined to change from a 130 to a 110 mm bolt circle and install a new "compact" crank, fine - but it is a big expense and you aren't being forced to do it.

[Elefantino]

Flatland bike: 50/34 with a 12-23
Climbing bike: 50/34 with a 13-29.

Had a triple, got rid of it. No need.

With Apex, there will never again be a need.

[WayneJ]

I have a compact 34/50 on two bikes and typical 39/53 on others. My biggest complaint - and it's a small one - is the transition from the 50 to the 34. When on the 50 in front and on the larger cogs in the rear, a shift to get a slightly lower gear requires dropping to the 34 and then a bunch of gear changes to get to the right cog in the rear. I do it without thinking now, and it helps with the Campy shifters, but it still takes some getting used to.

Concerning a 53t chainring ... I recommend switching over to a 52 if possible. The slight leg speed improvement is HUGE and a much better gear for me. I never liked the 53 and often wonder why the 52 lost its place as a standard. Anyone know why ???

[jowens]

Also using 50/36 with a 12-25 for rolling to moderately hilly terrain.

Planning to stick with this for a day's riding on the Blue Ridge Parkway next week. May regret being to lazy to swap out for a 34...

[jblande]

have been toying with switching to standard recently. but i climb a decent amount, and 50/25 gets used on some of those climbs. i find that in almost all situations, except descents and a very limited number of straight-aways a compact does just fine with an 11/25.

[Dan Le foot]

I'm a nobody but I've noticed the following:



3) The only time I "need" easier gears is when I have easier gears.


I found this to be quite true.
I just changed to a compact from triple on one of my bikes.
I don't miss the lower gear on the triple and I climb faster.
Tha again, perhaps I'm trying to justify the $1200 for the new Chorus 11 compact group.
Dan

[zott28]

I guess even pros need compacts when the maximum grade is 24%.

From Bike World News, Bikes of the Pros (http://www.bikeworldnews.com/2010/05/08/bikes-pros/)
The Giro Archive:

As the Giro d’Italia kicks off, BWN will be taking a look at the bikes and technology being used in the pro peloton this year.

For Tuesday’s uphill 12.8 km time trial, Lampre has chosen to use a modified Wilier Superleggera road bike, as opposed to a traditional TT machine. The course is unpaved near the top and has an average gradient of 8.5%, with a maximum of 24%. With aero effects diminished due to the low speeds, the team chose to use low profile carbon wheels and changed the gearing to 39/34 in the front with a 12×29 cassette in the rear.

[93legendti]

I found this to be quite true.
I just changed to a compact from triple on one of my bikes.
I don't miss the lower gear on the triple and I climb faster.
Tha again, perhaps I'm trying to justify the $1200 for the new Chorus 11 compact group.
Dan
Yes. I was thinking the same thing this week...I don't find that lower gears help all that much-climbing still hurts and it just takes longer (to paraphrase Ti Designs).

[palincss]

Yes. I was thinking the same thing this week...I don't find that lower gears help all that much-climbing still hurts and it just takes longer (to paraphrase Ti Designs).

Maybe you haven't tried low enough low gears.

[McQueen]

Yes. I was thinking the same thing this week...I don't find that lower gears help all that much-climbing still hurts and it just takes longer (to paraphrase Ti Designs).

If it takes longer its not the smaller gear length from the compact setup, its because you are exerting less energy/power in the smaller gear.

If you were to train with a power-meter, and say you can sustain a climb for 10 minutes at 300 watts.. If you put out 300 watts in a smaller gear or if you put out 300 watts in a bigger gear, the variable isn't going to be your velocity up the climb (you should climb at the same speed, assuming you are still in a cadence you can pedal efficiently). It will be your cadence that changes..

The benefit of a compact is that on a really steep hill, you can put out 300 watts and keep the pedals spinning at 70-80 rpms, instead of bogging down and having to stand on the pedals (which uses more energy, and wastes more energy than spinning).

[gauvink]

If it takes longer its not the smaller gear length from the compact setup, its because you are exerting less energy/power in the smaller gear.

If you were to train with a power-meter, and say you can sustain a climb for 10 minutes at 300 watts.. If you put out 300 watts in a smaller gear or if you put out 300 watts in a bigger gear, the variable isn't going to be your velocity up the climb (you should climb at the same speed, assuming you are still in a cadence you can pedal efficiently). It will be your cadence that changes..

The benefit of a compact is that on a really steep hill, you can put out 300 watts and keep the pedals spinning at 70-80 rpms, instead of bogging down and having to stand on the pedals (which uses more energy, and wastes more energy than spinning).


I like what you have to say. Now the kicker, do you run a compact, and what do you consider really steep? App gap steep??

This has all been helpful I will make up my mind tomorrow and let ya'll know..

[bigmonter]

Here is my question:

With the availability of 10 speed cassettes that go up to 27, 28, 29, 32, and even 34, is a compact needed at all save for the most extreme circumstance?

A 34/25 comes out a bit higher (35.7) than a 39/29 (35.3).* Heck you can get a 39/32 for a 32.0 which is good enough to match a 34/28 31.9 and could go as low as a 39/34 for a 30.1.

Taking out the need for a medium cage der. and having the larger sprocket look is there any down side to sticking with a 39 inner with a larger back end?

Does one notice the difference between a 34/whatever and a 39/whatever when they are equal? Is there any advantage/disadvantage from a climbing point of view to climb with a 39/29 over a 34/25?

Steven

*using Sheldon Brown's calculator.

[Louis]

If the teeth aren't deformed, then there's no need to change chain rings just because you've changed the chain and rear sprockets.

+1 One set of chainrings will outlast many, many, many chains.

[McQueen]

I like what you have to say. Now the kicker, do you run a compact, and what do you consider really steep? App gap steep??

This has all been helpful I will make up my mind tomorrow and let ya'll know..

This has been my first year with a compact, and steep is all relative.. Depending on your ability, there's probably a hill out there that a 39/23 bogs you down..

[McQueen]

Here is my question:

With the availability of 10 speed cassettes that go up to 27, 28, 29, 32, and even 34, is a compact needed at all save for the most extreme circumstance?

A 34/25 comes out a bit higher (35.7) than a 39/29 (35.3).* Heck you can get a 39/32 for a 32.0 which is good enough to match a 34/28 31.9 and could go as low as a 39/34 for a 30.1.

Taking out the need for a medium cage der. and having the larger sprocket look is there any down side to sticking with a 39 inner with a larger back end?

Does one notice the difference between a 34/whatever and a 39/whatever when they are equal? Is there any advantage/disadvantage from a climbing point of view to climb with a 39/29 over a 34/25?
Steven

*using Sheldon Brown's calculator.

Once you are in a the gear, if it's the same length it should be the same. However, you hit on some of the issues with that setup.. Dérailleur cage, shifting issues, chain length (you'd need a longer chain than normal), weight for the bigger cassette, bigger chainrings, etc.

[palincss]

Once you are in a the gear, if it's the same length it should be the same. However, you hit on some of the issues with that setup.. Dérailleur cage, shifting issues, chain length (you'd need a longer chain than normal), weight for the bigger cassette, bigger chainrings, etc.

Offsetting the weight of larger chain rings and longer chains is the greater efficiency and reduced wear of larger sprockets. This is especially so as sprockets get smaller. "Shifting issues" are illusory, provided you're using appropriate parts. For instance, if you try to push a "road" rear derailleur intended for sprockets no larger than 28 teeth to work with a 34 tooth sprocket, shifting will definitely suffer compared to a derailleur meant for larger sprockets. However, I have read (here) that wide range IRD 10 speed cassettes shift very poorly compared with Shimano cassettes of an equivalent range. Perhaps now that Shimano is supposed to be coming out with wide range 10 speed cassettes this might become less of an issue.

Price on ultra-wide range 10 speed cassettes is another issue. Those IRD cassettes are almost $200 ea, and the SRAM ultra wide range cassettes are over $400 each. That's pretty expensive for a wear item that many users end up changing every 2000-4000 miles.,

[oldpotatoe]

Here is my question:

With the availability of 10 speed cassettes that go up to 27, 28, 29, 32, and even 34, is a compact needed at all save for the most extreme circumstance?

A 34/25 comes out a bit higher (35.7) than a 39/29 (35.3).* Heck you can get a 39/32 for a 32.0 which is good enough to match a 34/28 31.9 and could go as low as a 39/34 for a 30.1.

Taking out the need for a medium cage der. and having the larger sprocket look is there any down side to sticking with a 39 inner with a larger back end?

Does one notice the difference between a 34/whatever and a 39/whatever when they are equal? Is there any advantage/disadvantage from a climbing point of view to climb with a 39/29 over a 34/25?

Steven

*using Sheldon Brown's calculator.

"Taking out the need for a medium cage der. and having the larger sprocket look is there any down side to sticking with a 39 inner with a larger back end?"

Yes, you lose a bunch of interior gears that you use much more often. If you are looking for a LOW gear, get a triple.

[93legendti]

If it takes longer its not the smaller gear length from the compact setup, its because you are exerting less energy/power in the smaller gear.

If you were to train with a power-meter, and say you can sustain a climb for 10 minutes at 300 watts.. If you put out 300 watts in a smaller gear or if you put out 300 watts in a bigger gear, the variable isn't going to be your velocity up the climb (you should climb at the same speed, assuming you are still in a cadence you can pedal efficiently). It will be your cadence that changes..

The benefit of a compact is that on a really steep hill, you can put out 300 watts and keep the pedals spinning at 70-80 rpms, instead of bogging down and having to stand on the pedals (which uses more energy, and wastes more energy than spinning).
Proper technique means you don't "bog down or waste energy standing on the pedals". If you stand properly while climbing you don't waste or use more energy - you use different muscles and give others a break.

I'm all for a compact and have 2 bailout gears on my BF PRP that I have with me over here-I just haven't needed them.

If a compact is what you use, more power to you.

[Dan Le foot]

[QUOTE=93legendti]Proper technique means you don't "bog down or waste energy standing on the pedals". If you stand properly while climbing you don't waste or use more energy - you use different muscles and give others a break.

QUOTE]
I find that to be true for me, Adam. I spend about half my time out of the saddle when I'm pounding it. I do use different muscles and my 180 lbs to more of an advantage on the downstroke when standing. I also go about 1 mph faster while lowering my cardio as long as I take it relatively easy.
Dan

[Ralph]

It's kinda obvious a lot of the views on this subject depend on a person's cycling ability. Some of you could ride up any mountain on a 39-25.

I'm an old guy (69), probably what you would consider a B/C rider, live in a mostly flat rolling hill area. I get by just fine about 99% of the time with a 39-52 and 13-26, 13-29, or 14-23 from which I can make up several other cassettes (all loose cog Centaur 10 cassettes).

However....about 1 or twice a year, I take a trip to the NC mountains, and I need all the help I can get on those hills....it's not so much the steepness, I can climb a hill pretty steep in a 39-29 for a short distance, it's that they just go on and on and on....up hill. So I have found, when I really need some gears (I really need some gears)....I need a triple (I've used a 34-50 before). Not much need for in between. But that's just me. If I were stronger, I could sure get by with a compact double, but why? Triples give you lower gearing and better gearing. So I think the answer to this question is a personal thing. Maybe depending on your strength level.