Cat out of the bag? Were you Surprise Me'd?

[straightegde]

http://speedbloggen.com/2010/07/brandons-bike/

I didn't ask anyone for the early photos of the SV SMs wanting to stumble upon it when it was time. Is this it? I haven't seen this paint ("paint") on any Vagens before. I love the colors and have a growing appreciation for bike builders so that makes this very cool. I can see how this would be divisive.

If it's open season, let the photos rip. I want to see all the details!

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . hire a color consultant for Sacha. Great bikes, ugly, UGLY color schemes.

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

I take that back :rolleyes: . . . THIS is more like it!

BBD

[fiamme red]

. . . hire a color consultant for Sacha. Great bikes, ugly, UGLY color schemes.

BBDIs that bike clear-coated steel?

[SoCalSteve]

Is that bike clear-coated steel?

Yup.

People were buying a Surprise Me paint scheme with no paint...

Quite a surprise, I'd say.

[fiamme red]

Yup.

People were buying a Surprise Me paint scheme with no paint...

Quite a surprise, I'd say.Must be clear powdercoat. Wet clear-coat would rust.

[davidlee]

Yup.

People were buying a Surprise Me paint scheme with no paint...

Quite a surprise, I'd say.

I love speedvagens, however the nude bikes look unfinished with the heat affected areas exposed . You slightly chip that and look out rust. Seems to me all the swoopy lines that make them great don't really stand out with the lack of color.
Is is Just me?
d

[straightegde]

If money were no object, or I could get one of these cheap I'd have the whole bike painted in that green. I love it, but there isn't enough. I think the color is right before its time and we'll see more green like this very soon. And there will be more paint styles like this with the colors on the edges of the tubes. It's just like a DeSalvo I saw on Bike Hugger a bit ago. http://www.flickr.com/photos/huggerindustries/4624530441/

[straightegde]

Is the rug a concidence or is that the pack in present that came with the frame?

[Acotts]

I think they look effin' fantastic.

I bet if you saw it in real life, and build up in the right way, you would be impressed. There is a lot of cool stuff going on there with the paint.

The Gentle Lovers scheme is my favorite.

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/speedvagen-race-bikes-10179-12.html#post210548

[alembical]

Between the two Vanilla frames BBDave posted, I like the recent surprise me raw one a whole lot more than that red pinarallo, specialized looking thing. To each their own... which is why I think it would hard for me to plop down that kind of money and have no say. That said, there has not be a surprise me one that I have not really liked. This recent one would make my dream cross bike.

Alembical

[straightegde]

Wowza, the detail photos across the hall are amazing. Georgeous bike. Nix any ideas of repaint.

[jlwdm]

. . . hire a color consultant for Sacha. Great bikes, ugly, UGLY color schemes.

BBD

You changed your tune for the red bike, but clearly the style and color of Sacha's bikes has been rated right up there with the performance.

The surprise me is not for me, but as pointed out the photos across the hall show the true look of the bike.

Jeff

[srice]

I picked the SM paint and I have been very happy with it. I was definitely surprised when I opened the box - both by the paint (or lack thereof) and a few other things. I thought about the red, but I've already got a red bike that was made in Chester. So far, I've got a couple of centuries on it and have been very happy with the ride. I have received a ton of compliments on it. People are especially taken to the heat affected zones at every joint. I do have a question - what is going on with the top of the seat stays and the drop outs? The heat affected zone looks like it was TIG'd, but the filler says it was brazed. Oh, and I've taken a look across the hall, but I guess I am missing the thread over there - where is it?

[snah]

I think they look effin' fantastic.

I bet if you saw it in real life, and build up in the right way, you would be impressed. There is a lot of cool stuff going on there with the paint.

The Gentle Lovers scheme is my favorite.

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/speedvagen-race-bikes-10179-12.html#post210548

Happen to agree, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :)

[Peter B]

The stays are brazed. The 'HAZ' you see at all the joints is created with a torch for visual effect.

[Climb01742]

i'll cast one more meaningless vote: i dig the non-paint paint. and applaud the creativity.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I just can't stand some of the colors he picks. But as another poster said, to each his own!

BBD

[fiamme red]

Are all Speedvagens powdercoated? Or is that part of the surprise?

[jlwdm]

... Oh, and I've taken a look across the hall, but I guess I am missing the thread over there - where is it?

In the Gallery; the last few pages of Speedvagen Race Bikes


Surprise Me (http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f11/)



Jeff

[Peter P.]

With this year's Surprise Me color, Speedvagens have jumped the shark.

[StellaBlue]

I'd take one with no bitchin..

[Peter B]

Sacha's color choices are always unique, an unexpected variation on something between perhaps familiar and where-the-fkuc-did-that-come-from?? And left to his devices the bikes are integrated designs which point to a very real sense of composition. You see it in the balance of the shapes of his frames, and his talent for clever integration with racks and accessories and choices of components. His graphic sense is strong and evolving. He likes to play. His designs are sometimes polarizing, but go back to the Vanilla website and peruse some of his classic, elegant work. Solid.

The man likes to stretch and explore. This round of SM has been polarizing for some, and there are a few buyers who now look to be sellers. They are outnumbered by enthusiastic keepers and would-be-buyers. They will all find very happy homes.

The whole notion of Surprise Me lives in the name and the pitch--No hints, no regrets. The man at play with new ideas and palates and your absolute trust in his vision. He has a distinctive, expansive, often linear and balanced aesthetic. He may choose avant-garde colors but pairs them quite well for effect, and usually with a twist.

I had the satisfaction of visiting the Workshop last month to pick up some bits for my SV while Scott had an SM on the stand being built. One really needs to see this bike up close and personal, walk around it a bit, crane your neck, twiddle the fork, spin a wheel and sit down near the bottom bracket and look to appreciate what they're doing in total. Some great colors, ideas and patterns. Integrated. Plenty of craftsmanship and outcome there.

A 600x800 240dpi photo on your color-biased web viewer doesn't convey the true bike. You really need to see one close to understand, and then go be the rider to fully get it. Now even then there will be folks who dislike it. Folks still may prefer their bikes soaked in bright conventional colors and patterns or any of the infinite other creative outcomes.

If you feel averse to the undefined, the unknown, the bold risk of the sight-unseen of another's creativity, may be best to skip SM and go for the Tomato Red or Creamy Celery or impending Lavender or Creme. All are gorgeous hues carried skilfully in the Vanilla style.

I had my SV build in my head long before ordering and it was Army. For this bike I wasn't looking for pretty. My Llewellyn nailed that. I wanted a junkyard dog garage hotrod sleeper for hammering through the tall trees on the local steep and blowing solo past the paceline when things open up and go flat.

You know, kinda like that slightly mangy, skinny dog you dismiss laying down snoozing near the tree, until you get a little too close and as he stands and starts his move you realize he's not scrawny at all, he's bad-ass lean and tight and you're about to feel the mean.



And Sacha nailed it.

[Auk]

I think the humor in this whole thing is that people got lulled into a sense of comfort with the SM color choice when the 09 bikes showed up in a very subdued color. Almost a gloss army green with some really intricate graphics. Perhaps they had forgotten that he also used hot pink as a SM color a few years ago. The whole point of the SM is to be surprised. It's been posted already, "no hints, no regrets". After all, they did offer 2 or 3 other colors that were published in pics to the buyers who didn't want to give up the control button.

And if you have a 55cm SM that you simply cannot live with, PM me. :)

[pdmtong]

. . . hire a color consultant for Sacha. Great bikes, ugly, UGLY color schemes.

BBD

are you the beholder?

[d_douglas]

Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Sacha built one for me for NAHBS 09. It was an example of the 2010 paint scheme (tomato red). In essence, it was a SM for me because he didn't tell me what it would look like, though he told me it would be red - that is it. Red is not my favourite bike colour, but that was the deal.

In any case, the bike is absolutely stunning and I simply forget that this is not the choice I would have made had it been my choice. I rode for a quick two hours this AM and it is BAR NONE the nicest ride I have ever been on.

In term of aesthetic, Sacha doesn't aim to make bikes look conventional - he has a graphic sensibility that compliments the bike itself - I appreciate that, and I doubt that this comes from my background in the field of design.

In the end, it makes me shudder a bit when I think of how fetishized these bikes are - I fall into the trap because I have one and love it, but at the same time, I wish people (including myself) would not obsess over the 'collectibility' or 'market worth' of the bike and just enjoy it for the damned nice bike that it is!

[cs124]

The stays are brazed. The 'HAZ' you see at all the joints is created with a torch for visual effect.

This is the ONLY bit I don't like.

Don't get me wrong, the garage/chop-shop look is pretty cool, the lime green is striking, and the Gentle Lover's scheme with the pale blue and white is a great riff on the classic Vanilla style.

...but...the Heat Affected Zones are, well, an affectation.
To get this look the bare frames have to be cleaned up post welding and chemically neutralized as they would for paint, then they are bead blasted and a torch is very carefully used at the joints to heat the metal, giving the distinctive (dis)coloured rings.

I'm guessing at the next bit of the process, but I'd say they use matte clear powdercoat over the metal, then mask, stencil etc the intricate graphics and then finish it off with another coat of matte clear. So all-in-all it's a very involved process to get that "raw" look.

[gearguywb]

If any of you guys has a SM with a 56-57 tt and a 18 ht that you are not pleased with bive me a shout ;)

[Climb01742]

The whole notion of Surprise Me lives in the name and the pitch--No hints, no regrets.

doesn't peter sorta sum it all up? the name isn't "please me". a surprise comes with a risk, a challenge, a letting go.

it's 100% a-ok to not like the surprise you got and then to sell it, but to kvetch that you_were_surprised seems, well, whiny.

[cs124]

doesn't peter sorta sum it all up? the name isn't "please me". a surprise comes with a risk, a challenge, a letting go.

it's 100% a-ok to not like the surprise you got and then to sell it, but to kvetch that you_were_surprised seems, well, whiny.

Seems like some folks were expecting "tastefully restrained" and got, well, something else!

[Chris]

I just can't stand some of the colors he picks. But as another poster said, to each his own!

BBD


Dave, you of all people on this board should shy away from criticizing others paint or kit choices. :)

I got the surprise me and I like mine. I get it though if others don't. What I don't get is the criticism of the scheme as being a surprise me choice because the whole idea was that it would likely be different from the norm. That's what I was personally hoping for and that's what I got. I personally think that this scheme is the most true to the speedvagen ideal of being a utilitarian race machine.

[bagochips3]

Dave, you of all people on this board should shy away from criticizing others paint or kit choices. :)


:beer:


I personally think that this scheme is the most true to the speedvagen ideal of being a utilitarian race machine.

Gets it. These are racing machines meant to be ridden hard. The industrial look with these colors/graphics nails it.

I have to say, I love every Speedvagen I have seen so far and I would go SM if I were in the market for a racing bike.

[Z3c]

. . . hire a color consultant for Sacha. Great bikes, ugly, UGLY color schemes.

BBD

Gotta' agree; if Specialized/Trek/Giant released that paint scheme the crowd here and esp. across the hall would be BBQ'g them!

IMHO, the SV paint declined last year; lost that classy, subtle touch that pulled it all together and made you look for the details in the frames.. Just too much "look at me" for me..

My opinion; add $.99 and you can buy a cup of coffee with it.

[srice]

Got back a few hours ago from my 3rd century on my SM. I rode this bike hard today and plan to ride it that way whenever I can. I get it. I fully expect the bike to get a few nicks while it accumulates the miles and I think it will add to the look. Sacha and crew pulled together a great riding bike with a look that matches the chracter of Speedvagen.

Steve

[sw3759]

I have been somewhat vocal here and across the hall about being unhappy with the scheme since i saw the leaked pic posted here but i loved them all in the past few years and thought it was worth the risk but it didn't turn out to be anything i really liked and said from beginging if i was that dissatisfied with the finish i would sell it.so thats what i'm doing.some love it some hate it.some have said if you dont like it your stupid/dumb/retarded whatever..if i doesn't sell i'll invest a little more and get it repainted sometime down the line.


Scott

[Gothard]

...but...the Heat Affected Zones are, well, an affectation.
To get this look the bare frames have to be cleaned up post welding and chemically neutralized as they would for paint, then they are bead blasted and a torch is very carefully used at the joints to heat the metal, giving the distinctive (dis)coloured rings.



If the "welding heat affected zones" are artificially made, then it is *very* cheesy. industrial, form-follows-function or consequence-of-building is all fine. Creating that after the fact is the equivalent of stick-on carbon fiber effect.

[jlwdm]

Scott

If you really want to sell the SM then make the attempt like everyone else selling a bike.

Post a classified.
Give all of the geometry.
Post decent photos. There has not been a decent photo of the SM on this forum.

Jeff

[r_mutt]

i'm not sure i understand paint criticism. it's a personal thing. some people like red, some people like blue. is that a surprise? personally, i'm a big fan of the celery and the light blue speedvagens.

[oldpotatoe]

. . . hire a color consultant for Sacha. Great bikes, ugly, UGLY color schemes.

BBD

You could say the same of any builder/painter. I think Serotta's carbon, white painted, big ugly decals all over, is just that-ugly.

[thendenjeck]

Gotta' agree; if Specialized/Trek/Giant released that paint scheme the crowd here and esp. across the hall would be BBQ'g them!


isn't part of the point of buying a SV that you are NOT buying a major corporate bike? Specialized/Trek/Giant have only one goal, and if you think otherwise, you're quite confused: they want to make money. They make safe looking bikes in predictable color schemes, same colors year after year after year (how many bikes are there made by the major companies that are white and blue and black or red and white and black?), because safety, predictability, and conformity are what makes money. If one of them comes out with something quasi-innovative, they all do it. All of this talk about "what right" does Sacha have to do this or do that is effing ridiculous. He has a 5 year waitlist for a reason: he's an incomparable craftsman with a defined vision. if you sign up for a bike with a tagline of "no hints, no regrets", then I think you know what you might be getting yourself into, and really have no room to complain. You are, however, certainly entitled to your taste and your right to sell, however I would wager that some of the distaste is due to some perceived discomfort with the discrepancy between the SM and the contemporary race bike archetype.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Dave, you of all people on this board should shy away from criticizing others paint or kit choices. :)

But a very valid criticism! :rolleyes:

Beauty certainly IS in the eye of the beholder. But for me it raises other personal issues. When I was in college there was a restaurant in town called the Red Lion. It was run by a former army mess sergeant and had one item each day--the "special." It was the cool place to go and you took what this guy dished out and were glad of it. The product and availability were strictly subject to his mood and if you didn't want to take exactly what he gave you and be happy with it, then to hell with you. The implication, of course, being that you just weren't as cool as all the others who shut up and took what they were given. The "soup nazi" episode of Seinfeld really reminded me of this guy.

It seems Sacha is not only a superb craftsman, he's also a savvy marketer, because it seems to me he's made a deliberate--and successful--attempt to mine this vein of people who are willing to take what they are given to be part of the group they consider to be cool--for whatever reason they want to be part of that group. Sacha is not the only one to take this approach. There is at least one more maker I know of who does it with great success. But he's the only one I can think of who's gotten around the immutable limits of workshop resources and waiting list time to sell even more bikes at custom prices, even though it seems they aren't really custom.

For myself, if I am buying a "custom" bike from a "custom" maker, then I don't want any surprises and I want some choices to make the bike individually mine just as I would want to be able to choose from a menu in a restaurant. (Yes, yes, there are a thousands points of detail where this comparison falls down, but I think you get the idea.)

Now I don't want to actually stand there while the guy is welding and criticize. That's why he's a craftsman and he knows best about the actual construction of the bike to make it handle the best. But I do expect to be able to choose whether I want lugged or TIG construction and I sure as hell want to choose what color the darn thing gets painted. I don't want to order--and pay for--a "surprise me" paint job and find when I get the bike that most of it isn't painted. Nor do I want heat stress marks faked any more than I would want a bike that's "custom" only because it has carbon texture stickers applied.

The Martha Stewart pastel "guest bedroom" color palette I can forgive because some people like that. It's the marketing scheme of "limited edition" products that I just don't get. People buy them to be special and cool because they want to be unique--just like half a dozen other guys who also show up at the weekend hammer ride? If you want to really be unique why not take a few minutes and do some deciding and get a custom bike that's really unique--one of a kind?

OK, flame-proof suit on . . . have at it. ;)

BBD

[Chris]

Good points Dave. I think there is a menu for the speedvagens and the SM scheme was only one of four choices. Those of us who picked that I guess wanted to get Sacha's current design ideas. I have two pals who ordered speedvagens but opted for other paint schemes. If you want full on custom, you can get that, it's just a 5 year plus wait and the frame says Vanilla on it. The speedvagens are something different and I believe are a reaction on Sacha's part to the wait list of Vanilla. It's a concept I personally dig.

In terms of the actual SM paint scheme, it is polarizing for sure and I think that means it hit the mark. People either love it or are turned off of it. There aren't too many people who are take it or leave it...

[jasond]

Seems like some folks were expecting "tastefully restrained" and got, well, something else!

If someone went into the process "expecting" a certain paint scheme and they ordered the SM scheme then they went into a situation with the wrong expectations.

I looked at all the previous bikes and not once did I expect him to do something like last year or the year before.

Personally, I would do it again and in fact if my name ever comes up for a Vanilla I will certainly give Sacha all design decisions.

He nails it every time IMHO.

[terry]

i'm with BBD here. I'd love to own a SV: the flared HT, the swaged DT, beautiful CS and clever ISP top, but for me spending that kinda cash on a bike the only area i would want input would be the color-make it red for me.

[sw3759]

"There has not been a decent photo of the SM on this forum."


seriously? so you feel none of those photos of the 3 SM SV's in the custom bike gallery are not decent? i thought they were all quite decent and probably as good or better than anything i could post up....

Scott

[93legendti]

We might never know, but I wonder if the whole suprise me theme of an unpainted bike is an inside joke by Vanilla, ala "the emperor has no clothes".

It's not my taste, nor my style to order a suprise me bike, but if people are happy with their SM's, I say more power to them.

[Joellogicman]

White wants to remain in the avant-garde of bike design.

Even the more wannabe trendy buyers usually wind up with something fairly predictable. Nothing wrong with that, but White's reputation is built on pushing limits.

Heck, if I did not push myself to do things differently, every custom I ever had would be some combination of light blue and cream.

The SV SMs are interesting. I am glad the buyers took a chance.

[moran]

Scott

If you really want to sell the SM then make the attempt like everyone else selling a bike.

Post a classified.
Give all of the geometry.
Post decent photos. There has not been a decent photo of the SM on this forum.

Jeff

Amen brother.

[velosport]

I think it's important to remember SV and Vanilla are two different avenues for Sacha. I have this year's SM and love it but it's a race bike from Portland so I expect paint jobs such as this from the SV crew. Many of the guys involved in production have stated this is their favorite paint job to date. But I can also imagine that if someone in 45+ club ordered this paint scheme they would not like it. I look at it this way if you ask an artist or craftsman to create something you can't control the outcome hence the safer choices.
By the way, the heat zone effect is added after and it's no more natural than paint so what's the big deal.

[davidlee]

By the way, the heat zone effect is added after and it's no more natural than paint so what's the big deal.

I feel like it's kinda poseurish to be honest.. Sorta like a faux vintage finish on a new guitar to make it look like it's been played.
What's next , an artificially aged paint job complete with nicks, errant dents and scratches to make it look like it's been ridden to hell and back. :)
Hmmm, mabey not such a bad idea, or you can just ride it and get the same effect!
xo
d

[BengeBoy]

When I was in college there was a restaurant in town called the Red Lion. It was run by a former army mess sergeant and had one item each day--the "special." It was the cool place to go and you took what this guy dished out and were glad of it. The product and availability were strictly subject to his mood and if you didn't want to take exactly what he gave you and be happy with it, then to hell with you.

Lawrence, Kansas (?).

[fourflys]

^^^

No Soup For You! :D

[goonster]

I wanted a junkyard dog garage hotrod sleeper
I dig the whole Speedvagen program. I'm totally OK with a surprise finish that some don't like, when there's a choice up-front. I think cosmetically applied HAZ effect is just as valid as any other fancy paint.

But the notion of an SV as any kind of sleeper, not least because of all that huge block lettering, is ridiculous . . .

[BumbleBeeDave]

Lawrence, Kansas (?).

We have a winner! I worked for the campus newspaper and the owner threw our reporter out of the place after she asked for a glass of water to go with her "special."

BBD

[BengeBoy]

We have a winner! I worked for the campus newspaper and the owner threw our reporter out of the place after she asked for a glass of water to go with her "special."

BBD


Small world.

Bill: "whadda you have, darlin' "
Customer: "I'll have the special, Bill."

That's all you could ever say without getting thrown out: "Special, Bill."

[JeffS]

I'm going to disagree with PeterB on this one.

The scheme is not integrated. The black parts do not tie in with the frame. Can anyone honestly say that they can see Sacha planning for something like the recent Bespoke show and deciding to display the SM between something like the white track Vagen and the tricycle? I can't.


And maybe that was supposed to be the point. My assumption was this was just a poor attempt at industrial. The result strikes me as a $5K reclaimed material coffee table from a mailorder shop.

Then again, maybe I'm just disappointed that mine showed up two months late, with the wrong wheels, wrong stem, a mis-glued tire and dry threads. It rides great though.

[moran]

Dude....let it go. Everyone gets that you didn't like the paint scheme. It's OK. Take a deep breath. Move on.

[jasond]

Then again, maybe I'm just disappointed that mine showed up two months late, with the wrong wheels, wrong stem, a mis-glued tire and dry threads. It rides great though.

You may have, like me, never contacted Scott or Sacha after sending in your initial order form however I must ask. How many times did you change your mind about parts or other details?

[r_mutt]

someone please put this thread out of it's misery.

[rugbysecondrow]

isn't part of the point of buying a SV that you are NOT buying a major corporate bike? Specialized/Trek/Giant have only one goal, and if you think otherwise, you're quite confused: they want to make money. They make safe looking bikes in predictable color schemes, same colors year after year after year (how many bikes are there made by the major companies that are white and blue and black or red and white and black?), because safety, predictability, and conformity are what makes money. If one of them comes out with something quasi-innovative, they all do it. All of this talk about "what right" does Sacha have to do this or do that is effing ridiculous. He has a 5 year waitlist for a reason: he's an incomparable craftsman with a defined vision. if you sign up for a bike with a tagline of "no hints, no regrets", then I think you know what you might be getting yourself into, and really have no room to complain. You are, however, certainly entitled to your taste and your right to sell, however I would wager that some of the distaste is due to some perceived discomfort with the discrepancy between the SM and the contemporary race bike archetype.


You can say a lot of things, but incomparable would not be correct. There is a list of builders who could be rattled off (Bedford, Kirk, Strong, Wages just to name a few) who you could say are very comparable as far as quality, craftsmanship and customer satisfaction. I would say that Sasha has marketed something more than frames which makes people feels special. If it is worth the wait or worth paying custom prices for a stock frame...more power to you.

someone please put this thread out of it's misery.

So now people want bike related threads to be closed. It is easier to not read it than to request it be closed.

[r_mutt]

So now people want bike related threads to be closed. It is easier to not read it than to request it be closed.

when threads degenerate into "i don't like the color", it's time to move on. SV's don't even have paint jobs that are remotely as controversial as landshark's or pegoretti's. people are complaining about 1 color paint jobs- and one that is considered by the builder to be "builder's personal choice". i can't think of a bigger public insult.

[93legendti]

You can say a lot of things, but incomparable would not be correct. There is a list of builders who could be rattled off (Bedford, Kirk, Strong, Wages just to name a few) who you could say are very comparable as far as quality, craftsmanship and customer satisfaction. I would say that Sasha has marketed something more than frames which makes people feels special. If it is worth the wait or worth paying custom prices for a stock frame...more power to you.



So now people want bike related threads to be closed. It is easier to not read it than to request it be closed.
+1!

[SamIAm]

He has a 5 year waitlist for a reason: he's an incomparable craftsman with a defined vision.

Whoa there, not even close. It would be closer to say he has incomparable style, flair and buzz if you will. Not that he isn't a fine builder, but incomparable??

[Johny]

He has a 5 year waitlist for a reason: he's an incomparable craftsman with a defined vision.

I agree with Rob/SamIAm.

There are many other incredible craftsmen as pointed out by others. Their waitlists may not be 5 year but they know how to craft a masterpiece.

P.S. Having owned many bikes and some custom ones on order, I actually ride only one bike everyday...and that's my 11 year old Serotta CTi. I commute on it, ride it at D2R2, and Burley my 6 year old to baseball camp. That's what bikes are for, right?

Kids enjoy riding without even knowing who makes their bikes, do we?

[jmeloy]

Lawrence, Kansas (?).
wondering the same! Loved the RL in Lawrence!

[thendenjeck]

yes, that was a bit of hyperbole on my part. i definitely don't think he's actually "incomparable". He's not even my favorite. Mostly I'm just sick of listening to people bitch about a unique finish applied to, what was it, 17 bikes total? especially when the whole point was "Surprise Me."

[gemship]

yes, that was a bit of hyperbole on my part. i definitely don't think he's actually "incomparable". He's not even my favorite. Mostly I'm just sick of listening to people bitch about a unique finish applied to, what was it, 17 bikes total? especially when the whole point was "Surprise Me."


Nor is he my favorite. This thread had me thinking who would be my favorite, I guess I would have to go with Dave Wages in regard to potential availability in the not so distant future, true custom design by definition of personal fit and aesthetics working with metal because it's either that or the new top of the line Meivici :)

I do think it's a pretty unique paint scheme. I guess I was surprise me'd