Wide clincher rims A23s, Hed C2s, etc.

[weaponsgrade]

Anybody have any experience w/ the Velocity A23s and/or HED Belgium C2s and how they compare to normal width rims? Some background: weigh about 155, looking for a 20h front/24h rear (if that sounds OK for my weight), and am planning on running 25mm tires.

[Bruce K]

I have never heard of HED Belgium wheels. They don't list a wheel by that name on the website.

There are plenty of threads discussing HED C2 wheels (both Bastognes and Ardennes). Just do a search of the forum.

BK

[vqdriver]

Belgium is what they call their rim only.

[oldpotatoe]

Anybody have any experience w/ the Velocity A23s and/or HED Belgium C2s and how they compare to normal width rims? Some background: weigh about 155, looking for a 20h front/24h rear (if that sounds OK for my weight), and am planning on running 25mm tires.

A23-Fairly light rims..I'd recommend 24f and 28r...2 cross all around, brass nipps. 8 spokes weigh about 2 ounces...

[572cv]

I've been riding the Hed Ardennes C2 with 25mm ProRace2s for about a month now. I can handle the rougher roads with a lot more confidence, the ride has been compliant and the grip good. Corners feel more secure. I run the tires at about 80 psi. I'll be trying different tires and pressures over the course of the summer. Of note, I have an Ultegra group. One ends up running the brakes with the quick adjust open or mostly open with these rims. Initial adjustment to that, but perfectly fine thereafter.

[Bruce K]

Okie Dokie. :crap: :crap: :crap:

I buy all my HED's pre-built. :rolleyes:

BK

[stephenmarklay]

At AEBIKE the prices are very good through QBP. The Belgium set is very nice but I think they build it out as a 24/28. I am sure you could get a 20/24. For the small weight and aero difference though I would get 24/28.

[roguedog]

are the belgiums the same rims used for the ardennes or bastognes.. or neither? if not, then which model are they most similar to?

going to aebike now to try to educate myself.

[tv_vt]

Belgiums are same rim used on Bastognes. Not scandium like the Ardennes rim.

T

[BCS]

A23-Fairly light rims..I'd recommend 24f and 28r...2 cross all around, brass nipps. 8 spokes weigh about 2 ounces...

I have a set of A23s. DT240 hubs, 32 DT Comps, 3x all around. Run with 25mm tires= sweet ride. I am 170#

[Ligero]

The A23 is going to be the lighter of the 2 and also the cheaper one. The HED rims are better quality but cost twice as much as the Velocity rim. Both build up into good wheels and you can't go wrong with either but it is up to you if you want to spend the extra money for the HED rims.

Hed- 465g average rim weight
Velocity- 430g average rim weight

[CNY rider]

The A23 is going to be the lighter of the 2 and also the cheaper one. The HED rims are better quality but cost twice as much as the Velocity rim. Both build up into good wheels and you can't go wrong with either but it is up to you if you want to spend the extra money for the HED rims.

Hed- 465g average rim weight
Velocity- 430g average rim weight

Is the Hed better in some quantifiable way or is that just your impression from working with both?

[sjbraun]

Another one to consider, C-4

The rim

http://fairwheelbikes.com/c4-v22-clincher-rim-p-2463.html

or the wheelset, CA 2.4OSL

http://www.c-4bicyclecomponents.com/

Steve- who is happy with his Ligero Model 1s

[Ligero]

Is the Hed better in some quantifiable way or is that just your impression from working with both?

The HED is better quality and is a tiny bit stiffer. The HED is more round and straight out of the box then the Velocity, the Velocity is also a bit "softer" alloy compared to the HED rim. With that said they both build into really nice wheels it is just from a builder standpoint the HED builds nicer but it should considering it costs twice as much.

[stephenmarklay]

The HED is better quality and is a tiny bit stiffer. The HED is more round and straight out of the box then the Velocity, the Velocity is also a bit "softer" alloy compared to the HED rim. With that said they both build into really nice wheels it is just from a builder standpoint the HED builds nicer but it should considering it costs twice as much.

Could I go with a 24/28 vs a 28/32 with the HED vs A23. I am going to build a set into with Powertap and these are the only rims I am looking at. Also, are the type of spokes a consideration for either? Weight 160's nominally and 150's on occasion. I do want them to be strong for training and low maintenance.

BTW SJBRAUN I had poor results with the C4's the rode great for one century. Went all wiggles on me and replaced. Second set did not last that long. Returned to Fairwheel (good service).

Ligero - I would have you build me a set but one of the online places is so inexpensive it is hard pass. Perhaps you can message me to discuss?

EDIT: I take that back as the Stans Alpha 340 looks great as you can build up a Powertap and have a reasonable weight. But it looks like they are a bit out from much in the way of meaningful production numbers.

[Ligero]

Could I go with a 24/28 vs a 28/32 with the HED vs A23. I am going to build a set into with Powertap and these are the only rims I am looking at. Also, are the type of spokes a consideration for either? Weight 160's nominally and 150's on occasion. I do want them to be strong for training and low maintenance.

Yes, you can absolutely go with a 24f/28r. Use lightweight 14/17 gauge spokes in the front and 14/15 gauge spokes on the rear and you will have a semi-light but durable pair of wheels.

Ligero - I would have you build me a set but one of the online places is so inexpensive it is hard pass. Perhaps you can message me to discuss?

No problem, I wasn't trying to get your business. I get to play around with a lot of wheel related stuff so I was giving my experiences with the 2 rims you asked about.

EDIT: I take that back as the Stans Alpha 340 looks great as you can build up a Powertap and have a reasonable weight. But it looks like they are a bit out from much in the way of meaningful production numbers.

I would not suggest the Alpha340 rim for a training wheel. The rim is very, very light and to make a alloy rim that light you have to give up something. The reason it is so light is the wall thickness is VERY thin. If you are trying to get the absolute lightest Powertap wheelset you can get and don't mind mixing rims you could run a Alpha340 in the front and HED rim in the rear. The inside width of the 2 rims is only 1mm difference so the tire profile is almost exactly the same between teh 2 rims even though one is 2.5mm wider. You could also use the Scandium version of the HED rims as they are 425g each but they are a little over $200 each.

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks for the response on these Ligero. You know your stuff. I did not know you could get the Scandium Hed wheels.

I sold my race wheels to get a nice pair of everyday wheels that I can race as well. The Zipp tubulars were hanging in the garage for the most part.

I picked up a used (but never ridden) DA 7850 TL (Carbon overlay and look pretty) tubeless and I want to ride them and compare them to the Powertap wheels I have built with a wider profile. I did really like the C4 wheel that I had for a brief period- it rolled nice and was sub 1400g.

[edward12]

I just built up a set of HED Belgian Series C2 Rims. 32H Record hubs, DT 14/15 butted spokes, brass nipples, 3 cross.

These wheels seem very sturdy. They spin-up really well. Although I'm not one to worry about weight, they are lighter than my Fulcrum Racing 5's.

In terms of performance, the wider rims allow me lower tire pressures which provide for a more comfortable ride. I haven't felt or noticed any changes in cornering.

I use 23mm tires (Michelin Krylion's) and they have been somewhat difficult to mount. I plan on mounting Vittoria Pave's (24mm) during winter/spring.

All in all, a durable, high quality wheelset.

[oldpotatoe]

I have a set of A23s. DT240 hubs, 32 DT Comps, 3x all around. Run with 25mm tires= sweet ride. I am 170#

Well, of course, that's best, 32h...even 20 spokes are only 80 grams or so, on a 80,000 or so gram 'package'...rider and bicycle. 'To get there first you must first finish'...

[oldpotatoe]

The HED is better quality and is a tiny bit stiffer. The HED is more round and straight out of the box then the Velocity, the Velocity is also a bit "softer" alloy compared to the HED rim. With that said they both build into really nice wheels it is just from a builder standpoint the HED builds nicer but it should considering it costs twice as much.

DT rims build better than them both.

[stephenmarklay]

DT rims build better than them both.

In a wide clincher?

[Ligero]

DT rims build better than them both.

The HED rim could give the DT rim a run but you are right, the RR1.2 is the nicest building rim I have built up in a long time. I would use them for everything if I could talk my customers into a rim that weighs 560g.

In a wide clincher?

DT TK7.1 is wide clincher rim that is really, really nice but it is a 530+ gram rim.

[stephenmarklay]

Thanks oldpotatoe and Ligero for the DT input. I will look at these options. At least with the 1.2 you get a lot of strength and a bit of Aero for the weight penalty.

[oldpotatoe]

In a wide clincher?

No, more normal 20mm wide rims. But outta the box, there are no more rounder, flatter rims when new than DT.

[dnades]

I weigh 165lbs. I've got a set of ardennes(20 front/24rear) and liked the rim width so much I built up a set of the Velocity A23's on some dura ace(7801) hubs. 36 rear(xl14 nds/db14 ds) and 32 front(all xl14). I went with aluminum nipples all around. The A23's rims weighed 426 grams each - they are very nicely made rims but as Ligero says not quite as nice as the ardennes. A23's aren't welded like the ardennes and they have a flat spot at the seam that was difficult to fully get out with truing.

I ride both sets with the same tires(Michelin Pro2 25's) which make them both very comfortable. The ardennes are faster to get up to speed and feel stiffer. The velocity's are more comfortable and absorb bumps better ( I think this is due to the difference in the number of spokes). I usually run the pressure at 95psi.
The ardennes are quieter(you don't have the hum you get from 32 spokes whipping through the air) with their bladed spokes although the freehub on the ardennes is louder than the dura ace hub. (Not like a chris king hub though.)

I am still getting used to the velocity wheels so those are just the initial impressions. Cornering is great with both sets. The extra rubber really gives you a lot of comfort and a lot of confidence to really dive into a corner.

[BCS]

The HED rim could give the DT rim a run but you are right, the RR1.2 is the nicest building rim I have built up in a long time. I would use them for everything if I could talk my customers into a rim that weighs 560g.

I am considering a set of training wheels with this rim. (Dt 240s, 32hole cross 3). How much of a performance change, if any, will I notice compared to my 1400 g deep carbon wheels on flat to gently rolling terrain?

[oldpotatoe]

The HED rim could give the DT rim a run but you are right, the RR1.2 is the nicest building rim I have built up in a long time. I would use them for everything if I could talk my customers into a rim that weighs 560g.



DT TK7.1 is wide clincher rim that is really, really nice but it is a 530+ gram rim.

But for the average cyclist, who hasn't seen 175 pounds for a while, these are great rims or 465 rear, 415 front....nice wheelset as well, 28 h front 32 rear..DA or DT hubs, I build a lots of these and more than a few 1.2 for bigger riders. I think the 'average' cyclist would rather have a wheel that will last for years, even if it means having it be 200 grams heavier..1/2 pound, 8 ounces...about a few powerbars..but you know this...

Only 2 things you can measure in a bike shop, weight and price. Light and expensive? Must be better...(sarcasm intended)...