Dura Ace 8 speed / Mavic reflex SUP clicking, need advice.

[Nautilus]

I tried searching, but didn't come up with much, my apologies if this has been covered.

Over the winter my rear dura ace 8 speed cassette hub started to slowly develop a clicking noise. About one click per revolution, regardless of coasting, or pedaling.

I repacked the bearings before the winter, and even though the factory seals are in place, when I tore down the hub to inspect it the grease had been contaminated. So, I cleaned and repacked the hub but it's still making the same noise. The bearing cup and cone surfaces no longer have the polished finish that they once had, and look as if they have been very finely sandblasted where the balls contact the cups and cones.

The noise sounds as if one of the balls is getting a bit stuck, and the others are pushing it along. I have checked loose spokes, valve stem, ect, and I'm pretty sure it's the hub, when I put most of my weight over the front wheel the noise gets much quieter. The hub doesn't feel rough, or gritty when I turn the axle with my hand, and it spins freely when on the bike.

So here's my question, should I try to simply replace the ball bearings?

Will I need new cups and cones, and if so can those parts even be sourced?

Can the cups even be replaced, or if they're bad is the hub shot?

Also, could this be a symptom of running a tranz x lockable skewer?
http://bikeisland.com/images/040609057.JPG


Thanks,
Mike

[regularguy412]

Are you sure it's not the rim? I had a similar issue with an '600' 8-speed hub/ rim combo. It was the rim doing the 'tick, tick, tick'. I figured it was time to retire the entire wheel set.

Mike in AR:beer:

[dvs cycles]

I also would look at the rim. I had some Open Pro's that would do that.
I would put some triflo on each nipple rim interface and twist with a spoke wrench a little.
Fixed mine. :beer:

[dnades]

ditto on rim clicking. I had a campy proton front rim that clicked. putting the little nut on the presta valve solved that problem. was driving me nuts though.

[fogrider]

if you tear open the seals, you might as well replace the bearings...your lbs should have them for a few bucks. as for cones, you lbs should be able to get them too but if your cups are shot, then the hubs are shot. clicking often comes from the spokes too.

[Nautilus]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I lubed up all my nipples, checked spoke tensions, trued the rim a bit, double checked the valve stem nut, turned all the nipples, and squeezed all the parallel spokes, and the noise is still there...

While I was riding around I decided to stop by one of my lbs, the guy working there took it for a spin, came back and said "wear headphones".
It was a good reminder as to why I tend to support online bike shops.

I noticed when riding real slow that the noise starts right at the same spot every revolution, and when going very slow I distinguished a few subtle clicks that all blend together when at speed.

I guess my next step is new ball bearings.

[Brian Smith]

Does your hub make the noise consistently whether you are pedaling or just coasting?
If your freehub bearings are loose (yes, their clearance can also be adjusted) then under pedaling torque they will most often click.
If it also happens while coasting, then it is less likely to be caused by the freehub bearings.

If your hub adjustment was not performed to a little tighter final spec, then the lesser throw of your Trans-X skewer will not compress your axle to the same degree the Dura-Ace skewer does so, and your hub will thereby now be running in a loose adjustment condition. That could tend to produce aperiodic clicks, in my experience, but not the periodic click that you are noticing.

If you get in there to adjust your freehub bearing clearance, I'd recommend getting the new bearings beforehand. While I actually enjoy spending an hour installing and adjusting new ball bearings, I wouldn't want to re-fit the used bearings into a freehub body if I was spending the time to disassemble and adjust it. At a nickel or less a-piece, they're cheap insurance that your bearings are not likely to be a problem in service.

[Fivethumbs]

What kind of rims do you have? My Open Pros and CXP33s both do the clicking thing. I was told it's because a piece of welded material breaks off inside the rim and bounces around.

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I lubed up all my nipples, checked spoke tensions, trued the rim a bit, double checked the valve stem nut, turned all the nipples, and squeezed all the parallel spokes, and the noise is still there...

While I was riding around I decided to stop by one of my lbs, the guy working there took it for a spin, came back and said "wear headphones".
It was a good reminder as to why I tend to support online bike shops.

I noticed when riding real slow that the noise starts right at the same spot every revolution, and when going very slow I distinguished a few subtle clicks that all blend together when at speed.

I guess my next step is new ball bearings.

If it's the same place on the rim each revolution, it's the rim. Many Mavic rims make noise either at an eyelet or at the metal wedge at the seam. Boiled Lindseed oil at the nipple/rim interface and a punch at the seam. If that doesn't quiet it down(if the wedge) small hole there and a bit of glue.

BTW, as a bike shop owner who has never said 'wear headphones' to anybody with a noise, I'll bet there are some online bike shop people that are as clueless as some brick and mortar bike shop people. Being 'online' doesn't automatically make a bike shop guy brilliant.

[Nautilus]

If it's the same place on the rim each revolution, it's the rim. Many Mavic rims make noise either at an eyelet or at the metal wedge at the seam. Boiled Lindseed oil at the nipple/rim interface and a punch at the seam. If that doesn't quiet it down(if the wedge) small hole there and a bit of glue.

BTW, as a bike shop owner who has never said 'wear headphones' to anybody with a noise, I'll bet there are some online bike shop people that are as clueless as some brick and mortar bike shop people. Being 'online' doesn't automatically make a bike shop guy brilliant.

Thanks oldpotatoe, I added some boiled linseed oil to the inside and out of the eyelet/rim interface, and to the nipple/eyelet interface, then I gave each nipple a little wiggle.

The rims are Mavic reflex sup clinchers

I also inspected the seam, and it doesn't appear to be compromised as far as I could tell. I'm not sure what you mean by "a punch at the seam" or "small hole there and a bit of glue"

I completely agree that online bikeshops don't have any more knowledge than a LBS, I would expect them to have less, and obviously less experience in many cases as well. The reason I go to online shops most of the time is because they're much cheaper. When I needed new pivot bearings for my Intense I went to my old go-to lbs to give them the business even though they quoted me a price that was about 35% more than I could find them online, and had to order them for me any way. Well, it took them twice as long to get the bearings as they quoted me, and when it was time to pay they charged me an additional 35% over what they quoted me. I said something about it, and the guy at the register simply said " sorry, there's nothing I can do about it". I love the idea of supporting my lbs, but they don't seem to want to return the favor.

[Ralph]

Anytime I pack wheel bearing, I always ride them a few times and then readjust them. I find they usually need readjusting after the greese squeezes out. So, if me, before I redid a wheel, I would recheck my wheel bearing adjustments. Maybe even adjust them under a slight load, as if you were on the bike.

BTW....I would probably have automatically replaced the wheel bearings also.

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks oldpotatoe, I added some boiled linseed oil to the inside and out of the eyelet/rim interface, and to the nipple/eyelet interface, then I gave each nipple a little wiggle.

The rims are Mavic reflex sup clinchers

I also inspected the seam, and it doesn't appear to be compromised as far as I could tell. I'm not sure what you mean by "a punch at the seam" or "small hole there and a bit of glue"

I completely agree that online bikeshops don't have any more knowledge than a LBS, I would expect them to have less, and obviously less experience in many cases as well. The reason I go to online shops most of the time is because they're much cheaper. When I needed new pivot bearings for my Intense I went to my old go-to lbs to give them the business even though they quoted me a price that was about 35% more than I could find them online, and had to order them for me any way. Well, it took them twice as long to get the bearings as they quoted me, and when it was time to pay they charged me an additional 35% over what they quoted me. I said something about it, and the guy at the register simply said " sorry, there's nothing I can do about it". I love the idea of supporting my lbs, but they don't seem to want to return the favor.

The SUP have a welded seam but held together with a aluminum wedge before welding. That wedge, inside the rim, can loosen making that noise. A punch right next to the seam or drill a wee hole there for some glue.

Yep, many bike shops, whether they are online on local, have clueless people working there. In my experience, most bike shops commit suicide, don't go out for lack of business.

Talk to the owner..he's the guy with the worried look on his tired face.

[Nautilus]

Well, everyone was correct.

Thanks oldpotatoe, the linseed oil at the eyelet interfaces did the trick.

The bike is now ninja quiet again :D

[eddief]

I have been having the exact problem described by the OP. I emailed Potatoe a couple of times to ask a few questions. He responded really fast. I went to the hardware store to buy some boiled linseed. But the first thing I tried was a using a nail and a hammer right at the two points at the rim joint right on the rim surface under the rim tape. Tapped one point, shook the wheel, but still heard the metal to metal noise. Tapped the other point and the metal to metal noise was gone! Who the hell would know there's a wedge in there that comes loose?

Now I can return the linseed oil, which only came in a too-big container.

Old Potatoe, the Sheldon Brown of the Paceline Forum. Thank you.

[oldpotatoe]

I have been having the exact problem described by the OP. I emailed Potatoe a couple of times to ask a few questions. He responded really fast. I went to the hardware store to buy some boiled linseed. But the first thing I tried was a using a nail and a hammer right at the two points at the rim joint right on the rim surface under the rim tape. Tapped one point, shook the wheel, but still heard the metal to metal noise. Tapped the other point and the metal to metal noise was gone! Who the hell would know there's a wedge in there that comes loose?

Now I can return the linseed oil, which only came in a too-big container.

Old Potatoe, the Sheldon Brown of the Paceline Forum. Thank you.

Geez, very nice but not in the Sheldon Brown category..he was the high priest of bike knowledge.

[Spinner]

A punch right next to the seam or drill a wee hole there for some glue.

Hey Mr. Potatoe,

What exactly do you mean by "a punch?"

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Cheers.

[oldpotatoe]

Hey Mr. Potatoe,

What exactly do you mean by "a punch?"

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Cheers.https://www.google.com/search?q=pictures+of+punches&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#facrc=_&imgrc=ePjGQN1x0p-wVM%253A%3Bundefined%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.prod uctsengineering.com%252Fmisc%252Fpunches1.jpg%3Bht tp%253A%252F%252Fwww.productsengineering.com%252Fm isc%252Fpunches.html%3B2108%3B1094

On my phone, not sure it worked...pointed thing you smack with hammer.

[Spinner]

Mr. Potatoe,

Please excuse my last inquiry for lack of clarity. Yes, I own various "punch" tools. My question is, exactly what are you punching?

Thanks again.

[oldpotatoe]

Mr. Potatoe,

Please excuse my last inquiry for lack of clarity. Yes, I own various "punch" tools. My question is, exactly what are you punching?

Thanks again.

At wedge, outside of rim in channel tube lives in....additional divots to try to secure the aluminum wedge the put in there to stabilize rim while welding.

[Hindmost]

The eyelets can break into a piece riveted to the spoke-side of the rim and a piece on the nipple-side of the rim. Not detectable until disassembled and the spoke removed.

I will be curious to see if the ticking returns at some point after the linseed oil treatment.