Why all the TORX?

[srice]

I just finished a new build with Campy SR. I became very annoyed when it came time to mount the shifter on the bars. It seems that in somebody's mind, it was a good idea to replace the 5mm hex socket bolts with T-25 ones. Without completely pulling the hood of the shifter, it is very difficult to get straight line access to these fasteners. In the past, I have used a ball tip hex key and enjoyed life. This time, I used a T-25 on a nut driver handle and hated life.

The migration to TORX has extended to the brake pads and the mounting for the brakes - except, I needed to use the Campy supplied long nut for the front (to work with a carbon fork) and it has the old fashioned 5mm hex.

Anybody know of a good reason for this move to TORX? I really liked the simplicity of almost everything using a 5mm hex key. It not only made road side repairs more manageable, the shop work was quicker and simpler.

Steve

[BumbleBeeDave]

I've had problems in the past with Allen hex bolt holes rounding out with repeated usage. You end up rounding out the hole to get the required torque to get the bolt tight enough to cope with usage. But then the bolt is on there and there's no purchase for your hex wrench to get it back out. Seems like the Torx bolt holes might be more resistant to this.

OR . . . it's a conspiracy by Park Tools to sell you more tools! ;)

BBD

[bobswire]

That's a good question and one I can't even "google" to find the answer.
Maybe to be "ultra different"? Love Campy but boy those boys sure don't make it easy.

[Ken Robb]

Torx are much more resistant to rounding out/stripping. We should always try to avoid applying more than minimal torque when using a ball-end Allen wrench because the force is concentrated on a small area of contact between the ball and the interior of the bolt. I have some experience with bolts that can no longer be turned by the ball-end because there is a gouged-out spherical hole where ball-ends had previously slipped. Happily, I was able to get them out with the straight end of the Allen wrench and replace them with new bolts.
I don't think there is anything in Torx World equivalent to ball-end (Bondhuis) Allen wrenchs but we have limited ability to apply torque with the driver skewed a bit and not fully inserted. I haven't buggered one up yet doing this to know how that affects my mental health. :)

[David Kirk]

I normally like torx fasteners but that one buried in a campy lever sux.

Dave

[benb]

If you're rounding them out you're probably overtorquing ?

Switching to Torx would accomplish nothing here.. because now ham fists will just be able to overtorque delicate parts all the more easily. Crack go the carbon bars. Snap go the little delicate bolts. :)

If you have to use a ball-end you're either doing something wrong, something is probably designed poorly, or you are not supposed to put any substantial torque on that part.

Torx was designed to function better for robots on the factory floor which have the ability to accurately apply a specific amount of torque.. not exactly the typical bicycle shop/home environment.

At least they didn't invent their own bolt standard!

[Ken Robb]

If you're rounding them out you're probably overtorquing ?

something is probably designed poorly, or you are not supposed to put any substantial torque on that part.


!

BINGO--all true. :crap:

[Ahneida Ride]

They want to host a late night torx show. :crap:

[Dave]

Simple answer - it's far less likely to strip when the fastener is aluminum. The solution for the shifters installation is simple - a T25 screwdriver. It slips under the brake hood easily. You may also need to roll the back edge of the hood forward, since is it hard to find the socket without seeing the end of the nut.

I installed my first ultrashift levers back in late '08. Piece of cake.

[Jeff N.]

I normally like torx fasteners but that one buried in a campy lever sux.

DaveAgreed.

[AngryScientist]

Agreed.

+1

[Avispa]

I don't have a problem with the change to Torx... I just wished they would have made the freaking bolts in Ti or a harder material than the alloy they are now using. These freaking bolts seem to be made out of butter...

Hopefully they are a replaceable part that is cheap!

..A..

[gone]

I just wish they'd have put it in the frickin' instructions e.g., "yes, we've been using 5mm allen bolts for centuries but just to eff with you, we've changed it to a Torx, size 25". I had one hell of a time figuring out the correct size torx when I installed my last group.

[Ralph]

I just went to Harbor Freight and bought a $3 set of Torx head wrenches. No big deal.

Since it looks like we will using them more and more....next time I get by there I'm going to get these. Not shop quality, but good enough for home use.

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-offset-star-drive-wrench-set-42926.html

[srice]

I just wish they'd have put it in the frickin' instructions e.g., "yes, we've been using 5mm allen bolts for centuries but just to eff with you, we've changed it to a Torx, size 25". I had one hell of a time figuring out the correct size torx when I installed my last group.


Greg,
That part was in the Italian instructions. Seriously, thanks for the heads up so that I didn't spend time fishing around in there with a 5mm hex.
Steve

[sokyroadie]

I just went to Harbor Freight and bought a $3 set of Torx head wrenches. No big deal.

Since it looks like we will using them more and more....next time I get by there I'm going to get these. Not shop quality, but good enough for home use.

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-offset-star-drive-wrench-set-42926.html

+1 I have that exact set and it does a good job on Campy levers and has held up great.

[oldpotatoe]

I just finished a new build with Campy SR. I became very annoyed when it came time to mount the shifter on the bars. It seems that in somebody's mind, it was a good idea to replace the 5mm hex socket bolts with T-25 ones. Without completely pulling the hood of the shifter, it is very difficult to get straight line access to these fasteners. In the past, I have used a ball tip hex key and enjoyed life. This time, I used a T-25 on a nut driver handle and hated life.

The migration to TORX has extended to the brake pads and the mounting for the brakes - except, I needed to use the Campy supplied long nut for the front (to work with a carbon fork) and it has the old fashioned 5mm hex.

Anybody know of a good reason for this move to TORX? I really liked the simplicity of almost everything using a 5mm hex key. It not only made road side repairs more manageable, the shop work was quicker and simpler.

Steve

Not a 'good' reason but you will notice all these Torx bolts are aluminum.

[srice]

After seeing the recommendation for the Harbor Freight offset Torx wrenches, I went to the local HF and picked up a set. These things are just what are needed for these bolts. They are long enough and skinny enough to slip in under the hood from the front and tighten the clamp. A friend of mine gave me the current HF ad this morning with these on sale for $7.99 - normally $9.99. I can't believe that I am actually recommending a Harbor Freight tool!
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-offset-star-drive-wrench-set-42926.html

[Vancouverdave]

I like Torx screws as fasteners; actually I like the under-hood Campy lever bolt as the feel of a wrench in a torx fitting is nice and un-vague. There is, as has been mentioned, a more strip-resistant interface between bolt and wrench. I don't like that it's an excuse to use aluminum or ti for fasteners that should really be steel. It's another lame, stupid, fraudulent way for parts companies to take penny-ante amounts of weight out of components and charge dozens of dollars more for the "innovation."

[Charles M]

Not a 'good' reason but you will notice all these Torx bolts are aluminum.


Nah, you're not wrong. Alu and Ti are good reasons.

People simply ham fist smaller bolts and companies get tired of people bitching about rounding out heads...


Zipp have new bars stems and parts using Torx and others will too. You'll see new product from several companies using more TORX.


BUT...


While buying a cheap set of wrenches is a good idea, someone should pos a cheap set of socket drives for TORX too...


So you have them ready for your Torque wrench.