Indoor power training

[Alan]

I was working out of town going to a Computrainer center for training. I found the indoor experience great for training when I had very limited time and wanted a quality workout. I found that it is very easy to get a very steady workout with minimal heart rate and power variation which is very difficult to do outside due to stopping and weather conditions.

Now I am home and I am looking at alternatives to get the same type of feedback. My workouts are prescribed at specific watts for specific time intervals. I have done some research on other trainers besides Computrainer and found issues with power calculation or calibration. I did some looking at Tacx and Elite which makes the Performance and Trashbar electronic trainers. I know another option is to use a powertap r wheel with a regular trainer which is a possibility but I am cheap and prefer a trainer based approach. I have also seen the Powerbeam trainer which looks good but is also pricey.

If you have ideas/thoughts besides a Computrainer pls let me know. I think it is the same story that there is no substitute for quality product with the correct calibration.

Alan

[stephenmarklay]

I am with you on training inside for the sake of training. I can do a quality workout inside in less time.

I am going to go the powertap trainer method myself. Having said that I am not using power so to speak now. But I actually am.

I use my HR as a guide for steady state SPEED on my rollers. I do this for Tempo through Threshold (5a ish) workouts. So I target a given speed and don't care what the actual watts are since I only care if I hold the speed and increase the speed over time at the same HR. Works well for now.

I can go back and look at the Garmin HR/Speed data and get a good idea of what is going on. Speed outside is not relevant but in constant conditions it is power X some constant and that works fine.

[jednjen42]

I use a Kurt Kinetic trainer with their power based computer, that's the cheapest way I've found to workout with power. As long as the power reading is consistent with the trainer's power curve, accuracy vs a real power meter is negligible. The best workout I've found is with Robbie Ventura's workout DVD's, Force, Power, Speed, and Race Day. I enjoy it, riding outside is better, but when time doesn't allow it, it's the best alternative.

http://www.kurtkinetic.com/
I have the Rock & Roll trainer.

[stephenmarklay]

I saw those video's advertised and thought they looked goofy. I will have to check them out. I am pretty good right now with all the bike racing but soon the cold weather will come back.

[oldguy00]

I went the Computrainer route. You can get them lightly used for about 850.
I actually like the 3d courses, in that it allows you to ride against a previous performance.

[ergott]

I know another option is to use a powertap r wheel with a regular trainer which is a possibility but I am cheap and prefer a trainer based approach.

Alan

By far the best approach. What's the point of training with power if you don't plan on racing with power? Get a Powertap clincher (so you can swap road/trainer tires).

[stephenmarklay]

By far the best approach. What's the point of training with power if you don't plan on racing with power? Get a Powertap clincher (so you can swap road/trainer tires).

Really?

[ergott]

Really?

What part of my statement are you questioning?

[stephenmarklay]

I think training with power is useful even if you do not race with power. Sure you can monitor your output during a race and not blow up (as easily) but saying that there is no point to train with it otherwise is not true.

This would be like saying it is not useful to train with HR or for that matter train at all.

Training with power will help optimize your workout intensities and follow methods that seem to work well i.e. periodization.

That will make you a faster bike racer regardless if you look at power during the race.

[ergott]

Training with power will help optimize your workout intensities and follow methods that seem to work well i.e. periodization.

That will make you a faster bike racer regardless if you look at power during the race.
Working with power is a significant investment of both time and money. Power numbers during a race are important for strategy, but analyzing your files after the race is so important to learn what you did wrong or right. I don't understand spending serious money on power reading capabilities only to leave out such significant advantages. It doesn't even cost more to have power on the bike instead of the trainer.

[Charles M]

Think in F1 terms...

They basically run an entire race using an uber complicated set of equipment that boil down to a powertap on a car...


You know exactly how many bullets you have to fire and how far they'll fly racing with power feedback. Especially in a TT where you know where your limits are and you sit right at them.


I have had a low budget (2-400 dollar) trainer or two (or 20) and I can say that even the same manufacturer and model can vary by as much as 20% from unit to unit. BUT they tend to be pretty stable measures for a unit it's self (meaning a unit that is estimating 15% high is pretty fixed at 15% high) and that's critical if you can set a base line (which is easy doing a ramp test on that trainer).


But if I could buy a computrainer or Powerbeam I would. Once set, they are quite a bit more accurate than most trainers and have a lot more useable features for deep training. The Cyclops units also now let you ride a course and come home and train on the same course... The tech is fantastic..

[stephenmarklay]

ergott, I am only saying that I disagree that training with power is not useful in and of itself. Absolutely, I agree that having it on the bike is the best way to do it. I am actually looking forward to getting a Powertap wheel right now. I use inside ride rollers and with a Powertap I get a good road feel, intervals etc in a very controlled environmemt. For training it is a big bonus.

I also agree for a race before/after or outside training they are great too.

My only bone of contention was that training with power without the other parts is not useful. It is very useful in my opinion.

[ergott]

ergott, I am only saying that I disagree that training with power is not useful in and of itself. Absolutely, I agree that having it on the bike is the best way to do it. I am actually looking forward to getting a Powertap wheel right now. I use inside ride rollers and with a Powertap I get a good road feel, intervals etc in a very controlled environmemt. For training it is a big bonus.

I also agree for a race before/after or outside training they are great too.

My only bone of contention was that training with power without the other parts is not useful. It is very useful in my opinion.

True. My point is that since the technology cost is similar either on the bike or on the trainer, it makes so much more sense to get power on the bike and then you can still use it on the trainer of your choice.

[znfdl]

True. My point is that since the technology cost is similar either on the bike or on the trainer, it makes so much more sense to get power on the bike and then you can still use it on the trainer of your choice.

I agree with Ergott, get a Quark Cinqo and a Garmin 705. This way you are not restricted to one wheel set. Pricey, yes, but cheaper than an SRM.

[stephenmarklay]

I like the idea of the quarq also. One issue however is that my current bike does not use BB30 and It may next year. Then I am in for a new one. At least with a wheel you won't have that issue.

[SummitAK]

If you plan to do significant training indoors you can't go wrong with the Computrainer option. I use mine for a training program similar to what the OP mentioned. I have helped non-Computrainer owners set up their standard trainers for this type of power-based workouts. Depending on your training program there are some compromises that must be made when using a trainer with a set power curve. On these trainers speed determines power. That means adjusting power with gearing. So cadence will also vary depending on available gear ratios versus desired power. And if your program has significant lower zone based workouts and/or you are a smaller/less powerful rider it can be surprising how quickly some of these fluid trainers ramp up in power (ie. low power ends up requiring low wheel speed and very low gearing). This method works, but the CT takes out many of the variables.

I have a PowerTap with the Edge 705 and it is a great outdoor training option. It does lead to other decisions such as training wheels versus race wheels. And if you have the race only option is this something you want to hammer for many hours on your trainer?

The bottom bracket style powermeters appear to offer the most flexibility with respect to training. Though if you run both a road bike and a tri/tt bike there is another potential compromise. The Quark can be swapped between bikes if running the same bottom bracket system. This would mean a duplicate set of cranks if you wanted both bikes available. Then gearing becomes a compromise if you run compact on one bike and standard gearing on another. The Quark is also calibrated to the chainrings it ships with - no user recalibration - so no swapping ring ratios without giving up some accuracy.

There still doesn't appear to be one power measurement system that will answer every need. Or at least do so within some sort of budget;) There is a pedal based system in development that is contained within a Speedplay axle. I think I saw somewhere where they have prototypes utilizing other pedal systems too. Perhaps Charles will be providing a review if this system can make it to the production stage:) If the Quark system development schedule is any indication we could be waiting a few years for this new pedal system!

For the OP - you can probably do your constant power level workouts using only the CT handlebar unit. But if you have a computer available give the Coaching Software a try. Trainer workouts are monotonous and the extra feedback from the software provides more distraction;) The software also allows you to save your workouts and upload them to training log software or sites.

Hope this helps...

[stephenmarklay]

This is a really nice summary in my eyes. Since I have the inside ride rollers I do a sort of power training as you describe - with speed and HR. It can work pretty well. Honestly, it likely works well enough for a hack like me. Having said that I am going to try it with a power tap. I actually really like training inside for efficiency and the controlled atmosphere.

I think for a poor man a powertap is a pretty good option but certainly not the only way to go.

[Alan]

I really like the Computrainer option but it seems a bit pricey for what you get. I have looked at trainers like the Tacx Flow which should work but from what I have read you can't set it at a particular wattage as I am used to doing on a Computrainer. I don't need any other options just reliable power and speed. The Elite trainers sound good but don't seem to have reliable power numbers. Am I missing something?

Alan

[deechee]

Fyi, the computrainer is nice in a gym but at home I found it very loud. I'm very happy training with my powertap and with the Kurt Kinetic, its a great combo. The Kurt is quiet at cruising speed, but is definitely noisy when you're pushing hard.

My powertap has been fairly reliable (had to send it back once) and its been through rain and such. And if you only want an indoor option, the wired ones are going for really cheap used.