Do I pursue a claim or not?

[Chad Engle]

Good news, I participated in a triathlon over the weekend, great experience, had a blast, second year in a row I've done this event. Both times with my 11 year old daughter and we both improved our times over last year's.

Bad news, the homemade bike racking system, one long pipe with mulitple plywood/2X4 supports, collapses and falls over. 8" scratch, through the paint, on the top tube of my CDA. The event was sponsored by the local YMCA and the rack was theirs. It fell over because one of the supports was rotten, it appeared to kind of crumble into pieces. I'm sure I'm not the only one with a damaged bike.

What really torques me is that I brought my work stand to use as a rack because normally the rack provided is full. But I got there in time to get the last two spots and I'm rule follower, rules said your supposed to use the rack or contact a race official, so I used the rack.

Needless to say I will not use one of these types of racks again. Doesn't the event have a duty not to damage your bike? I know the answer, but it's the Y and I really respect and appreciate what they do. I have no idea what a re-paint would cost.

Do I suck it up, touch it up and say it adds character to the frame or file a claim?

[fourflys]

I think you have to do what you feel in right in your heart...

The Y is a non-profit, correct? If that is the case and you appercite what they do otherwise, I'd say suck it up... especially if you can afford to get it done...

I'm not saying the Y shouldn't be responsible, but you gotta look at what makes you sleep easy at night...

take a couple days to reflect and then make your decision...

And, sorry to hear of the scratch, that always sucks!

[John M]

Too bad about the scratch. I would contact the director of the event and discuss your concerns in a collegial way. But I doubt that they will do much other than apologize.

A full Serotta repaint will be expensive. I bet $600 minimum and potentially more if you have a multicolor fancy paint job.

I'd touch it up, and chalk it up to experience. When the frame gets a bit more "age", then get a repaint. Racing of any kind incurs increased risk of damage to the bike than just riding around. I used to race a lot of tris back in the 90s and my experience was that rack mishaps unfortunately happen.

Congrats on the good race results for you and your daughter.

[jasond]

Sorry to hear about the scratch. Did you sign a waiver?

[eddief]

if yes, they already pay for the insurace. they bought it cover their butt for accidents. this sounds like an accident = ask them.

[David Kirk]

I feel your pain. I really do. But........... I think that **** happens despite best intentions and you ended up with the **** end of the stick this time.

I'm one of those people who think that we are ultimately responsible for our own actions and well-being and if you don't want to take the risk of having your bike damaged or getting hurt or anything else like that then doing an event should be out. It's part of life and the crappy things that can happen.

Again, I'm really sorry. I've been there and it sucks. Get it re-sprayed and enjoy the wonderful bike you own.

dave

[veloduffer]

if yes, they already pay for the insurace. they bought it cover their butt for accidents. this sounds like an accident = ask them.

Yes but it may be within their deductible, so the YMCA may be paying out of their own pocket anyways.

Being a fundraiser for a non-profit community organization, it would seem a bit of defeating the purpose of a fundraiser for a cosmetic, rather than structural, issue.

Bringing a bike to that type of crowded event will always be a risk for cosmetic damage. The bike can easily get knocked over by another competitor getting their bike from the rack.

A bummer indeed, which is why one needs at least two bikes. :D

[eddief]

all i suggested was to ask them. then make a decision. why assume it will cost them out of pocket?

i listen to that f-ing gekko and that be-ach from Progressive all day long on the tv and radio. we must all be insured for some dumb reason. the reason is to cover crap like this.

i am not suggesting he take the Y to the cleaners. just ask the question and then determine next steps.

[false_Aest]

Things to consider:

1) NFP or not they have insurance and insurance exists for a reason.

2) What Dave Kirk said.

3) It never hurts to ask but it always hurts to go into a situation acting like a dick.

4) Have a compromise in the back of your head: 50/50 60/40 etc. Even if it's 90/10 its still less than 100/0.

5) There's a whole thread on weight weenies about DIY clear coat.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and then decide what you want to do. You don't have enough information to make an informed decision. Be nice to them and I'm betting they will be nice to you and then you can decide what your conscience dictates.

BBD

[johnnymossville]

I'm going to agree with David Kirk on this one, and use this opportunity to repaint the bike the way you want.

[veloduffer]

all i suggested was to ask them. then make a decision. why assume it will cost them out of pocket?

i listen to that f-ing gekko and that be-ach from Progressive all day long on the tv and radio. we must all be insured for some dumb reason. the reason is to cover crap like this.

i am not suggesting he take the Y to the cleaners. just ask the question and then determine next steps.

I understand but I work for a commercial insurer. Commercial insurance for most large organizations and companies are self-insured, where they actually pay their own claims. The insurance company is a pass-through and collects fees for the claims handling. Insurance firms may take credit risk by paying the claimant intially and then getting reimbursed by insured firm. For example, BP is self-insured and will be paying most of the damages out of its own pocket.

It's not like insurance for consumers where the insurance company takes the risk (called risk transfer) and can do this based on a large book of business where they collect enough premium to offset the losses paid.

I don't know if the YMCA's get individual polices for each location or they pool their insurance coverage. If it is individually, it may be risk transfer but with a deductible. If they pool, they may be self-insured.

[RADaines]

Just my 2 cents, but if the rack collapsed due to poor care/inspection, the potential existed for someone to get hurt not just damage to a bike. They have some degree of responsibility. You should at least report the damage to them and take it from there. Fund raiser or not, their equipment needs to be safe.

[peanutgallery]

If you go to the Y to talk, remember that they are a non-profit and on the prowl for willing and able volunteers. They are probably doing the best they can with what they have, all the while with an eye on their purpose of why they are around.

Come to the non-profit that I work for with a similar situation and I would immediately apologize, thank you for your participation and then ask you to help us improve what we do, i.e. build a better rack for the next event. We are only as good as the volunteers that we recruit and the resources that we can put into play. The insurance coverage just makes sure everyone is covered for the dental visit after a bad crash or if a car gets loose on the course, not the scratch on the bike or a dent in your car. Otherwise, they could not hold the event

Just an opinion

[pdmtong]

First, this really sucks. especially since you had made an alternative rack plan.
And, it's there, an 8" scrratch, staring at you.

But, I also know %$ happens. What Dave Kirk said. What about the guy with a 3mm nick, or the pedal gouge/chip in the chainstay?

I think it's one thing if your frame is crushed because their truck rolls over it...but I personally would have a hard time asking the Y to pay for a scratch, even an 8" scratch, from a mass FDGB (fall down go boom).

it's a bummer, but I'd just tell the Y that this was one result of the rack collapsing (so they can address in the future), re-paint it, and let it go.

In awhile, this won't be as big a deal as it seems now.

so, pick a new color.....

[dekindy]

Don't touch it up unless you have a lot of expertise. If you are an amateur it will look worse. Trust me. I got a lot of good advice but do not have the talent so my touch up looked ten times worse. How about some stickers?

[54ny77]

well, since one is asking the question in a public forum...the answer is: it's kinda like demanding a refund from your adorable girl scout niece who delivered a box of thin mints that accidentally got squished in the minivan... :rolleyes:

[ergott]

First of all, good on you for not flying off the handle right away. That never improves a situation. Calming down and asking for advice is to be commended.

You got all the advise you need here. I'm sure I speak for others in asking you to please follow the results if you choose to speak to someone in charge about this.

[rugbysecondrow]

I would persue it with the expection being that nothing would come of it expect maybe a change for next year.

That being said, many of these race are getting larger and larger and the fees are growing as well, creating expectations of care and professionalism. Many races are now requiring participants to rack their bikes the night before the race, and they coordinators are responsible for the security and care over night...this is a big leap of faith. Other races strongly encourage this practice. Some of these local YMCA races, I think you often get what you pay for in some respects. They are cheaper races, the little money made goes for a good cause, but that is about it. I would hold many other races to a higher standard of care.

[Chad Engle]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. The reason I posted this is that I have worked in insurance my entire career and I wanted to get opinions from reasonable folks not in the industry. I have tons of respect for this forum as a whole and I knew I would get objective responses from people who understand the value of a quality bicycle.

I can't imagine that a non-profit organization like the YMCA could afford to self insure and liability deductibles are a fairly rare creature so I don't believe this would cause them to incur any direct out of pocket expenses.

Regarding liability, I feel it is quite clear they need to ensure the equipment they use is safe. Had it fallen over due to some child racking their bike with a little too much gusto I wouldn't even consider a claim, I can picture my own daughter knocking it over rushing to rack her bike. But that didn't happen, the support was cleary rotten.

My initial contact with them was an email asking who was responsible for the rack, the Y or the company that ran the race for them. They quickly replied and admitted it was their rack and they were aware they needed to improve it for next years event. I received another reply advising they had notified their insurance agent who asked for an estimate and my contact information.

Having handled claims so long I feel like I'm too close and need to get opinions from rational people before moving forward. They more I think about it the less comfortable I am taking any money from the Y, regardless of how clear I think liability is.

Thanks again for all the replies. Anyone know where I can get one of those cool fixie top tube pads?

[duke]

.

[fourflys]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. <snip> They more I think about it the less comfortable I am taking any money from the Y, regardless of how clear I think liability is.


sounds reasonable to me...

I bet any auto body shop (or other painter) in your area could fix it without much trace left and I'm sure it would be less than a new paint job...

Good on you

[ergott]

Take any insurance money you receive and donate it back to the Y.