Hondo suspended for doping positives

[alembical]

Hondo suspended for doping positives .... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2005/apr05/apr02newsflash

Alembical

[Big Dan]

Anyone surprised?????????????

:confused:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . would he be clean the first day, then caught the next two days? He would be a total fool to take something during the race . . . :confused: :confused: :confused:

BBDave

[Big Dan]

Surprised????????


That BBD has to defend the poor dopers................ :confused:

[GoJavs]

All of a sudden this year, Hondo's winning left and right...! He even won a time trial! DUMB...DUMB...DUMB... :crap:

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . at people who jump to as yet unproven conclusions--like Big Dan. Under the ProTour, suspension is required of anyone who tests positive. You test positive--you're guilty. The reason--or whether the test was accurately administered--is unimportant.

BBDave

[saab2000]

I sort of agree with BBD here. There is assumed guilt by association in these cases. While there will innevitably be some big dogs who fall here, the fact is that these guys are not all dumb and will not all take cheesy products to win a stage of a relatively minor race, especially now that stage wins count for much less than they used to.

Doping is undoubtedly still a big factor in the sport and will continue to be until the money is less of an issue, but to take something small and risk a whole career seems counterintuitive. The suspensions are huge now and someone like Tyler Hamilton's career is probably ruined.

I am not saying guilty nor not guilty here or in any other case.

But the riders will soon learn that doping and getting caught is far more expensive financially than not doping and earning less money.

In the end it is all about money.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . against whom a case has been proven!!!!!

But the whole structure established here sets up a "guilty until proven innocent" type atmosphere. For many people, as soon as they read this about Hondo, he is "guilty" as far as they are concerned, and it will be difficult to dispell that first impression.

I have seen no evidence that Hondo is a fool, and Saab is right. In the current testing atmosphere, you would have to un-be-LIEVE-ably dumb to risk getting caught by taking drugs in the midst of a minor stage race just to get a cheap stage win.

BBDave

[Big Dan]

sorry defenders of the oppressed......I didn't say anyone was guilty, just that it doesn't suprise me to hear any rider connected to a doping scandal..... :D

At least I don't waste my life writing to Velonews for any of those clowns.. :fight:

[Tom]

let some guy ride that has had a positive test? Yeah, they could take away results if he rides and the positive turns out to be valid but that doesn't eliminate the issues of race events due to his presence. Maybe he cuts somebody off or does a lead out and changes the outcome. You can bark at people for jumping to conclusions but the organizers of the sport have to cut off a guy when he tests or they're in danger of changing results for the group as a whole and not just for the one guy.

I liked the old days. You peed in your competition's water bottle and he got sick but he got better soon. It was a much more wholesome and innocent time. These days you slip him an EPO mickey and he doesn't get better for a couple of years.

[flydhest]

Tom,

That's an interesting take. Have there been many allegations of opponents intentionally putting controlled substances into others food/water/etc. to make them get disqualified?

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . who is even accused is automatically a "clown?" I think BigDan has just gone far to prove my point.

But Tom also raises a good point--you can't just let the guy keep racing, then scramble all the results if it's proven he really IS guilty.

Very interesting situation. I'm glad I don't work for the UCI and have to make these judgements. But I will also continue to point this stuff out because I do have some real sympathy for guys who really are trying to compete honestly, but who are put in the situation now of having their careers ruined over unproven accusations. Welcome to Salem . . .

BBDave

[Big Dan]

How come we are still waiting for dear Tyler to clear his name??

Tell me the names of recently accused riders that came out clean after everything was said and done........apart from Lance.......

Millar-no
Camenzind-no
Garzelli-no
Bighouse-no

please refresh my memory...maybe you can write Velonews and ask them......

You always post the same crap, we have to wait...... :butt:

Believe me you have more than proved my point.......

[Air Jer]

I am sorry to say I have become calloused. I believe in this day and time they all cheat.

Flame me if you must but I look at the landscape and have become so skeptical.

[Tom]

Tom,

That's an interesting take. Have there been many allegations of opponents intentionally putting controlled substances into others food/water/etc. to make them get disqualified?

None that I know of. It's more my perhaps misguided sentimentality for a better day past.

[flydhest]

None that I know of. It's more my perhaps misguided sentimentality for a better day past.

(sigh) I agree. Nothing beats peeing in other guys water bottles.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . that's it's easy tp be skeptical in this day and age. I think Tom can testify that I harbor my share of skepticism about many things.

I believe Cedric Vasseur was accused--several times--and no proof was found, and he is back racing. some research would no doubt turn up others, but the lack of knowledge about such people just serves to further illustrate my point. When someone is accused it's trumpeted from the rooftops. But if they are cleared there is scarcely a mention.

Noone has, to my knowledge, been arrested for deliberately setting someone up. But there have certainly been suspicious incidents . . . When Garzelli tested positive for Probenecid (a diuretic masking agent) in the Giro several years ago, the Mapei team proclaimed that all their riders AND support staff--everyone who had eaten at the team table the night before--all started peeing like racehorses the next day. There have also been incidentswhen whole teams suddenly went down with food poisoning during a race.

As for Tyler, he has had his shot and now is waiting for a ruling. This in itself is turning into an interesting situation, as the hearing is still officially "open" even though the testimony was over a month ago tomorrow--March 2.

BBDave

[Big Dan]

Ok Dave you win....most people want to sit down , watch Flanders this weekend and think that all riders are clean....right now that's not the case..



:beer:

[BumbleBeeDave]

I don't think all riders are clean at all. This is a huge problem that threatens to totally undermine the sport. But it needs a measured, carefully calculated response, and I don't think that's what is being done.

BBDave

[Air Jer]

Actually I want to sit down this weekend and watch Illinois beat Louisville.

[jerk]

its european professional bicycle racing. these people and their lifestyle has nothing in common with yours. their lifestyle has almost nothing in common with domestic pro racers. these poor bastards have races more important than anything in this country two or even three times a week. they need to finish in the bunch in 90% of them or else they're going back to work in the mattress factory or the coal mine or papa's tabac store. if they don't place promiently in the remaining ten percent of the races same deal.....you can not compare this lifestyle to anything outside of the wwf in this country...if you aren't strong enough, fast enough and can't recover quickly enough you're going to be dog meat in a matter of weeks...unlike pro-wrestling its real though...too real. doping isn't cheating...it's surviving and if you want to clean up the sport stop watching it, stop supporting it and throw your fu\---cking lance armstrong braclet in the toilet. all of them are "guilty"...guilty of having the hardest job in the world.
jerk

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . don’t hold back. Tell us how you REALLY feel . . .

BBD

[alembical]

Jerk,
So how do you feel about doping in the NFL, NBA, Baseball, olympics, swimming, track and field, etc...? The same. Just because the individuals see it as necessary and think that everyone else is doing it, does not really justify the action...does it? Do you really believe that it is something that can not be cleaned up? Even if so, don't you think that it something that should be at least attempted to be cleaned up?

Alembical

[Big Dan]

Why clean the thing up?
Let the riders do what ever they want and just have the broom wagon carry the body bags........... :eek:

[jerk]

Jerk,
So how do you feel about doping in the NFL, NBA, Baseball, olympics, swimming, track and field, etc...? The same. Just because the individuals see it as necessary and think that everyone else is doing it, does not really justify the action...does it? Do you really believe that it is something that can not be cleaned up? Even if so, don't you think that it something that should be at least attempted to be cleaned up?

Alembical


alembical,
the jerk doesn't know.....it's tough because the jerk knows these guys....knows how hard the life is, how little reward there is, and how high the stakes are. it isn's baseball, or football or anything like that. these guys need to perform at a super-human level on an almost daily basis and need to be able to recover to do it again. the jerk is all for drug tests and any attempts to clamp down....the thing is the jerk hates to see the two faced-ness of it....the sponsors, the uci, the directors all these folks need the riders doped....yet its the riders who get screwed when they get caught....the jerk would suspend the sponsors and the team management if a rider on the team was "caught", not the rider. this crap comes as much from the top as it does from the bottom.
senor squizi had the right attitude, he got out with his money and supports the kids now instead of the pros....the short answer is the jerk has no idea....
jerk