OT: BP Estimates is serious question

[William]

Purdue Scientist estimates that the amount of oil gushing into the Gulf is far higher then the 5,000 barrels a day that BP announced. His calculations put it more around 70,000 a day, and that doesn't include the other leaks that have yet to be included. If this is correct the spill is already far beyond the Exxon Valdez spill of 1989.


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126809525&ps=rs

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126975907




William

[Tyler Evans]

I heard on "on point" yesterday that the oil is escaping from the hole at 10,000psi. I can't even comprehend.

[wc1934]

why aren't people OUTRAGED - why didn't the epa get more involved sooner- why did we let bp decide on how to address the cleanup/cap the well.
Why doesn't the govt come out and just take over and state that bp will be totally accountable - i heard that the govt wants to increase the tax on gas and have the additional revenue be applied towards a fund for future disasters - why should we pay for the greedy oil companies mistakes - WE NEED TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ENTIRE CLEANUP - the environment, marshes, wildlife and fishing industries are screwed for years to come.
Still waiting for someone to start a bp boycott

[eddief]

i wonder what's next. i think a huge percentage of even non-involved americans must be saying "***?"

where are the other oil companies? why are all the powers that be seem to standing around with their fingers in their rears watching this disaster continue to unfold.

if in fact, WE don't know how to fix this quickly, how can we justify one more oil rig in the ocean?

the corruption is palpable.

i don't get it.

[Ray]

why aren't people OUTRAGED - why didn't the epa get more involved sooner- why did we let bp decide on how to address the cleanup/cap the well.
Why doesn't the govt come out and just take over and state that bp will be totally accountable - i heard that the govt wants to increase the tax on gas and have the additional revenue be applied towards a fund for future disasters - why should we pay for the greedy oil companies mistakes - WE NEED TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ENTIRE CLEANUP - the environment, marshes, wildlife and fishing industries are screwed for years to come.
Still waiting for someone to start a bp boycott
I don't think the government will "just take over" because they wouldn't have an idea of what to do beyond the stuff BP is already trying. If BP was guilty of cutting some corners before this accident happened, I'm sure that will be investigated and will come out in due time and they should be held accountable for any such violations. But right now the thing is to get it stopped. I haven't heard a single expert on this, despite every attempt by TV hosts everywhere to whip up even more controversy, who doesn't think they're trying everything they can to contain it as well as they can. Nobody knows how to do this. BP is trying to get it under control and not having much luck so far. Hopefully, they will soon.

This kind of accident is the price we pay for continued dependence on a resource that's getting harder and harder to pull out of the ground and that there's more and more demand for. We can try to find a villain in this and maybe BP will turn out to have been a villain. But we really need to look in the mirror. Our western lifestyle (and quickly becoming the eastern lifestyle as well for more and more...) is not without impact. If we're going to continue to burn this stuff, and we will for as long as we can based on everything I've seen so far, there will be accidents. This is a bad one, but its by no means the only one. If you're driving an SUV or driving more than you need to or doing any other number of high impact things and you want a pristine environment, I've got news for you....

I'm as guilty as anyone. Or if not quite as guilty as ANYone, certainly guilty enough. I just have trouble scapegoating a specific oil company every time they prove not to be perfect. What area of human endeavor is?

-Ray

[oldmill]

The government apparently doesn't have the expertise or equipment to deal with it, and if Plan C fails for BP next week then I guess we'll have to conclude that BP doesn't either. If nothing else, this should remind us that nothing is completely fail-safe, despite assurances to the contrary. That puts the question of whether to expand deep-sea drilling -- and, even more, nuclear power -- in perspective.

[eddief]

that's a lotta folks. this is not each of us doing something one at a time....like not driving an SUV. this is a group dynamics and leadership problem that requires big values, big leadership, big gonads on the part of those "in power."

so much easier said than done - obviously. there are all sorts of pain that cause people to change behavior. so far an ugly oil spill ain't enough. $7 a gallon would move things in the right direction much faster. not in isolation, but part of a comprehensive plan. not happening yet.

[djg21]

why aren't people OUTRAGED - why didn't the epa get more involved sooner- why did we let bp decide on how to address the cleanup/cap the well.
Why doesn't the govt come out and just take over and state that bp will be totally accountable - i heard that the govt wants to increase the tax on gas and have the additional revenue be applied towards a fund for future disasters - why should we pay for the greedy oil companies mistakes - WE NEED TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ENTIRE CLEANUP - the environment, marshes, wildlife and fishing industries are screwed for years to come.
Still waiting for someone to start a bp boycott

The EPA wasn't in a position to get more involved because it was largely dismantled and defunded by the last presidential Administration. And the reality is that the best minds in the business are in the employ of BP and the other multinational oil companies, which also have better access to the necessary equipment and technology. This is not a national disaster -- it is a global one. It merits a global response from all quarters --governmental and private.

I am outraged, and incredibly sadden, because this spill will not be stopped any time soon (if the technology to stop the leak existed, the leak would have been plugged already), and the ecosystem of the Gulf of Mexico, and perhaps the entire Atlantic Ocean, will never, ever recover. We are watching as the Gulf of Mexico is being turned into the Chicago River.

If there had not been so much resistance to regulation over the past decade, worst-case scenarios could have been anticipated, and proper precautions taken. But, from the perspective of some, more regulation would have unduly burdened the oil industry and diminished its ability to garner more profit. The chickens really have come home to roost.

On edit: Here's some interesting news: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704026204575266112115488640.html?m od=e2tw .

[SEABREEZE]

Spoke to son today on the oil issue. He said his Boss told him the Russians had the same problem a couple different times.

There solution, sent a nuclear bomb down which blew and melted everything, which fused the leak


Fact or Fiction.???

[Kirk007]

[QUOTE=djg21]

If there had not been so much resistance to regulation over the past decade, worst-case scenarios could have been anticipated, and proper precautions taken. But, from the perspective of some, more regulation would have unduly burdened the oil industry and diminished its ability to garner more profit. The chickens really have come home to roost. [unquote]

+1000

Massey Coal mine disaster, Gulf Oil Spill, deaths from side effects of Yaz and SSRI's (adults not kids - black box warnings diluted), banks - the common threads include lax government regulation, prosecution of whistle blowers, cozy relations between business and government and reckless behavior motivated by financial gain.

Too much regulation arguably stiffles creativity and profits to business. Too little regulation of profit motive and real people die and lose their possessions and livelihoods. Will we never learn that relying on the marketplace to regulate greed is playing russian roulette with real people's lives? I fear there are many other chickens out there en route.

[Climb01742]

one news report i read said that in canada, when a well is drilled in the arctic, the canadian gov't requires that a second, relief well be drilled at the same time. they can't start pumping the primary well unless there's a relief well in place and operational. "unavoidable accidents" usually aren't.

if oil is an inescapable part of our present and some part of our future, it seems as though safety needs to get on level footing with profit.

and in the irony department: imagine two consecutive presidencies being severely damaged by events in the gulf of mexico.

[jblande]

while agree that suv's are by and large one of the more heinous human creations (one should speak about american car culture in general), i think a lot could be done if we would all pay more attention to our use of plastics. this is something i have begun to pay quite a bit of attention to in my daily life, especially after spending much time abroad. something like 100 million plastic bags are used every year in the united states, requiring about 12 million barrels of oil to produce. one of the simplest things in the world to do (and i have been personally heckled, called a 'tree-hugger' and a 'fag' in both chicago and baltimore for this) is bring a cloth bag to the market. while the suv's have to go, people also need to think about their disposal practices in general. 12 million barrels of oil instead of cloth bags. wow, how poor are we at leading our lives.

[Lifelover]

I don't think the government will "just take over" because they wouldn't have an idea of what to do beyond the stuff BP is already trying. If BP was guilty of cutting some corners before this accident happened, I'm sure that will be investigated and will come out in due time and they should be held accountable for any such violations. But right now the thing is to get it stopped. I haven't heard a single expert on this, despite every attempt by TV hosts everywhere to whip up even more controversy, who doesn't think they're trying everything they can to contain it as well as they can. Nobody knows how to do this. BP is trying to get it under control and not having much luck so far. Hopefully, they will soon.

This kind of accident is the price we pay for continued dependence on a resource that's getting harder and harder to pull out of the ground and that there's more and more demand for. We can try to find a villain in this and maybe BP will turn out to have been a villain. But we really need to look in the mirror. Our western lifestyle (and quickly becoming the eastern lifestyle as well for more and more...) is not without impact. If we're going to continue to burn this stuff, and we will for as long as we can based on everything I've seen so far, there will be accidents. This is a bad one, but its by no means the only one. If you're driving an SUV or driving more than you need to or doing any other number of high impact things and you want a pristine environment, I've got news for you....

I'm as guilty as anyone. Or if not quite as guilty as ANYone, certainly guilty enough. I just have trouble scapegoating a specific oil company every time they prove not to be perfect. What area of human endeavor is?

-Ray

I'm sick and tired of reading your post that are full of even handed common sense. This is the interweb for christ sake! Stop using your brain and use your mis guided emotions for a change!

[zap]

why aren't people OUTRAGED - why didn't the epa get more involved sooner- why did we let bp decide on how to address the cleanup/cap the well.
Why doesn't the govt come out and just take over and state that bp will be totally accountable - i heard that the govt wants to increase the tax on gas and have the additional revenue be applied towards a fund for future disasters - why should we pay for the greedy oil companies mistakes - WE NEED TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ENTIRE CLEANUP - the environment, marshes, wildlife and fishing industries are screwed for years to come.
Still waiting for someone to start a bp boycott

Why are you still waiting to boycott BP?

The outrage earlier and now should be directed at the slow cleanup effort. What's the hold up with approving the build up of sand barriers. I suspect fault lies here in D.C.

As Ray posted in his excellent post, BP et al appear to be the experts when it comes to capping the leaks.

The environment and fishing industry will suffer for years. I hope a hurricane doesn't come along and make it worse.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't think the government will "just take over" because they wouldn't have an idea of what to do beyond the stuff BP is already trying. If BP was guilty of cutting some corners before this accident happened, I'm sure that will be investigated and will come out in due time and they should be held accountable for any such violations. But right now the thing is to get it stopped. I haven't heard a single expert on this, despite every attempt by TV hosts everywhere to whip up even more controversy, who doesn't think they're trying everything they can to contain it as well as they can. Nobody knows how to do this. BP is trying to get it under control and not having much luck so far. Hopefully, they will soon.

This kind of accident is the price we pay for continued dependence on a resource that's getting harder and harder to pull out of the ground and that there's more and more demand for. We can try to find a villain in this and maybe BP will turn out to have been a villain. But we really need to look in the mirror. Our western lifestyle (and quickly becoming the eastern lifestyle as well for more and more...) is not without impact. If we're going to continue to burn this stuff, and we will for as long as we can based on everything I've seen so far, there will be accidents. This is a bad one, but its by no means the only one. If you're driving an SUV or driving more than you need to or doing any other number of high impact things and you want a pristine environment, I've got news for you....

I'm as guilty as anyone. Or if not quite as guilty as ANYone, certainly guilty enough. I just have trouble scapegoating a specific oil company every time they prove not to be perfect. What area of human endeavor is?

-Ray


Well said.

[mister]

it's natural to point blame elsewhere and that's what's happening. i see comments online about gov't being lax or even corrupt with regulation or they want to blame BP which is proper.
there is more blame to go around though.
we as a country are partially at fault because of our greedy and irresponsible lifestyles, just as Ray said.

atmo. oil is too damn cheap. there needs to be some heavy taxing at the pump that goes directly towards funding alternative green fuels. gas prices need to go up or everybody will just keep driving their suv's or dually's with single occupants everywhere they go. if people want to treat oil/gas as it's an infinite resource then they need to pay...much more.

[JMerring]

there was/is a poll in this morning's fox street - er, wall street - journal regarding the extent of oil companies' liability in situations like this. apparently, their liability is currently capped at $75 million. to the extent this is true and applies also to a suit for, say, negligence, it would be a damn shame. i would like to see bp go down in flames for this, but alas that may not happen.

[93legendti]

funny thread

[William]

funny thread


Not really.



William

[JMerring]

Not really.



William
+1. it is very unfunny, and quite sad, actually.

[mister]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100526/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gulf_oil_spill

COVINGTON, La. – Senior managers complained oil giant BP was "taking shortcuts" by replacing heavy drilling fluid with saltwater in the well that blew out, triggering the massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, according to witness statements obtained by The Associated Press.

Truitt Crawford, a roustabout for drilling rig owner Transocean Ltd., told Coast Guard investigators about the complaints. The seawater, which would have provided less weight to contain surging pressure from the ocean depths, was being used to prepare for dropping a final blob of cement into the well.

"I overheard upper management talking saying that BP was taking shortcuts by displacing the well with saltwater instead of mud without sealing the well with cement plugs, this is why it blew out," Crawford said in his statement.

A spokesman for BP, which was leasing the rig Deepwater Horizon when it exploded April 20, killing 11 workers and triggering a massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, declined to comment.

BP conducted tests Wednesday in preparation for its latest bid to plug the leaking well by force-feeding it heavy drilling mud and cement. BP Chief Executive Tony Hayward said on NBC's "Today" show that he would decide Wednesday morning whether to allow crews to try the procedure called a top kill.

Meanwhile, the statements from workers ahead of a hearing in New Orleans Wednesday and a congressional memo about a BP internal investigation of the blast indicated warning signs were ignored. Tests less than an hour before the well blew out found a buildup of pressure that was an "indicator of a very large abnormality," BP's investigator said, according to the congressional memo.

Still, the rig team was "satisfied" that another test was successful and resumed adding the seawater, said the memo by U.S. Reps. Henry Waxman and Bart Stupak to members of the Committee on Energy and Commerce, which is investigating what went wrong.

There were other signs of problems, including an unexpected loss of fluid from a pipe known as a riser five hours before the explosion, which the memo said could have indicated a leak in the blowout preventer, a huge piece of equipment that should have shut down the well in case of an emergency. BP has cited its failure as a contributor to the blast.

The witness statements show rig workers talked just minutes before the blowout about pressure problems in the well. At first, nobody seemed too worried: The chief mate for Transocean left two crew members to deal with the issue on their own.

What began as a routine pressure problem, however, suddenly turned to panic. The workers called bosses to report a situation, with assistant driller Stephen Curtis telling one senior operator that the well was "coming in." Someone told well site leader Donald Vidrine that they were "getting mud back." The toolpusher, Jason Anderson, tried to shut down the well.

It didn't work. Both Curtis and Anderson died in the explosion.

Frustration has with BP and the federal government has only grown since then asefforts to stop the leak have failed. At least 7 million gallons of crude have spilled into the sea, fouling Louisiana's marshes and coating birds and other wildlife.

President Barack Obama prepared to head to the Gulf on Friday to review efforts to halt the oil that scientists said seems to be growing significantly darker, from what they can see in an underwater video. It suggests that heavier, more-polluting oil is spewing out.

Ahead of his trip, Obama planned to address an Interior Department review of offshore drilling that is expected to recommend tougher safety protocols and inspections for the industry, according to an administration official. The official spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of the public release Thursday of the findings of a 30-day review Obama ordered after the spill.

A new report from the Interior Department's acting inspector general alleged that drilling regulators have been so close to oil and gas companies they've been accepting gifts including hunting and fishing trips and even negotiating to go work for them.

The top kill BP is poised to try Wednesday involves pumping enough mud into the gusher to overcome the flow of the well.

Engineers plan to follow it up with cement that the company hopes will permanently seal the well. It may be several days before BP knows if it worked. Hayward earlier pegged its chances of success at 60 to 70 percent.

Bob Bea, an engineering professor at the University of California at Berkeley, said the procedure carries a high risk of failure because of the velocity at which the oil may be spewing.

"I certainly pray that it works, because if it doesn't there's this long waiting time" before BP can dig relief wells that would cut off the flow, Bea said.

___

Associated Press writers Mike Kunzelman in New Orleans, Jeff Donn in Boston, Ben Evans, Ben Feller, Fred Frommer and Erica Werner in Washington, and Holbrook Mohr in Jackson, Miss., contributed to this story.

___

Online:

http://globalwarming.house.gov/spillcam

[BumbleBeeDave]

Overtly political. Unproductive. Not bike related. Let's move on.

BBD