Q: for the campy wheelset owners

[sailorboy]

So I love campy's wheelset, but I don't love the fact that they are a bit larger diameter than most other factory wheelsets or rims from other brands, making it a bear to get most tires on there. Anyone else riding neutrons or eurus that can recommend a performance tire that is also not a chore to get on the rims?

I have used vittoria EVOs and conti grand prix 4000 and need that level of quality, but they are among the ones that suck getting on the rim.

thx

[thwart]

I think they all suck getting on the rim. Veloflex Paves go on a touch easier.

That said, on-the-road tire changes, when the tire has already been stretched, have never been a big deal for me. And I certainly don't have strong hands.

Goes well with the rest of my body... :rolleyes:

And I currently am running Eurus, Neutrons, Nucleons, and Protons on my bikes. Hasn't exactly held me back... :D

[Dave]

Your mounting technique may need some work. Campy rims can be tough, but my DT RR1.1 rims are a lot harder to mount tires to than my Fulcrum Zero rims.

[StellaBlue]

Your mounting technique may need some work. Campy rims can be tough, but my DT RR1.1 rims are a lot harder to mount tires to than my Fulcrum Zero rims.

Agreed technique helps.. I have Zonda, Neutron, & Protons with no issues mounting tires. The Zonda's are especially easy to mount. It may be due to no rim tape, but that's just a guess..

[StellaBlue]

So I love campy's wheelset, but I don't love the fact that they are a bit larger diameter than most other factory wheelsets or rims from other brands, making it a bear to get most tires on there. Anyone else riding neutrons or eurus that can recommend a performance tire that is also not a chore to get on the rims?

I have used vittoria EVOs and conti grand prix 4000 and need that level of quality, but they are among the ones that suck getting on the rim.

thx

Open C 25mm are especially easy to mount. Not to mention a dream to ride. GP4000's are by far the hardest to mount on any wheels IMO..

[majl]

I also have more issues with my Nucleons than any other wheelset. FWIW, my experience: For that initial mount-up, I can get Michelin PR3s on without destroying my thumbs. For on-the-road flat changes, Veloflex Paves go on and off quite easily once they've been stretched out. However, the first time I mounted up a brand new pair, I think I uttered every foul word in the dictionary. Also, I had an issue with one Pave tire I recently bought in that it was actually slightly smaller than it should have been. It was incredibly tight to get on (any wheelset for that matter) and I literally blew out 3-4 tubes before I realized that something was amiss with the tire.

[BCS]

I have had similar issues. I can easily mount tires on my Velocity A23 rims without a lever but struggle with Neutrons. I have used PR3s, Conti 4000s, Vittoria Evo Cx and Pave--they are all tough when the tires are new. Easier after they stretch a bit. On long rides/Brevets I carry a Kool-Stop tire bead jack. It makes any tire change easy and is very portable.

[djg]

Have you tried veloflex or vredestein?

My only campag wheels now are nucleon tubulars, so I'm not sure what to tell you, but I'm curious as I've picked up some used fulcrum clinchers to have a good basic wheelset on which I can change types of tires without much fuss.

Another possibility is just to take a page from the tubular handbook: get some cheapo used wheel or two and carefully pre-mount your next tire or set of tires. They won't stretch a ton, but even clinchers should stretch a little bit -- maybe enough to help when you need to mount a tire?

[Matt-H]

I must also lack technique because I have had a difficult time mounting PR2's on my Protons.

[Hard Fit]

don't have campy wheels, but had old trek rims that were impossible with certain tires. switched to hutchinson and never had a problem after that.

[AngryScientist]

just put a set of gp4k's on my sciroccos, tight, but not out of the ordinary.

[Seott-e]

I agree, Campy wheels are a bit tighter. It also depends on the tires. I find Vittoria's can be a toght fit but cheaper tires aren't so bad. I have a better time with them after they have been on the rim for a while, it's sometime mounting them the first time that's the worst. After that they stretch a bit and I can almost get them off by hand, making fixing a flat on the road do-able.

I was helping a friend of mine mount tubeless tires on the new Dura-Ace tubeless rims, now those were TIGHT !!! Dang.........

[endosch2]

I have a set of Zhondas. No rim tape - I am not sure if you are using rim tape or not. I think it makes a difference. I cut about a 3 inch piece of Velox off of a role and placed it at the valve stem hole. I had punched a hole in it to help protect the area around where the valve stem goes through the rim, but that is it. I mount Michelin PR3s with no problems what so ever.

In my experience there are certain tire / rim combinations that are the factor more than the rim alone.

[flydhest]

The difficulty with getting tires on and off Campy rims (I ride Protons) is not simply technique. Technique matters for everything, but there are physical differences that make Campy rims harder.

One answer to the OPs questions is Vredestein (I think someone else mentioned this). I have had Michelins on for a while and Vredesteins for the past three weeks. Enormous difference. On my Open Pro wheels, I do not use levers to mount the tires. I find that impossible on the Protons with Michelins. It is possible with Vredesteins.

[Bobbo]

I have no issues with my Eurus. But my Neutrons? Fuhgheddaboudit! They're impossible with almost every tire I've tried. The conti 4000s isn't bad. I suspect that the Schwalbe Ultremo may be a decent fit, so I'm going to experiment with that tire. Anyone used a Neutron/Ultremo combination?

[amy]

I had a set of cheap ritchey wheels for a while that had the same problem, but only on the rear rim. The rim was offset and for some reason slightly larger in diameter. I could never get a tire on it.

Eventually I gave up :crap: and made someone else do it..

Some people are pretty fond of these though:

http://www.treefortbikes.com/product/333222357812/694/Kool-Stop-Tire-Bead-Jack.html

[Steve in SLO]

Prior to mounting a new tire, put it somewhere warm (dashboard of your car, oven at warm, etc to make it very warm to the touch. Then hook the tire under your foot and pull upward hard with your hands (think upward rowing with a rubber band) several times. That usually will stretch it enough to have it slip on a bit easier. Moistening the last bit of the bead to go over the rim will help, too.

[4ster]

I have Protons that I found very tough at first. I was using Velox rim tape and PR2s and it would always require a tire lever and much sweat to pry on the last bit. Then I changed to Vredesteins and Zipp rim tape and it's much easier with much less cussing. Apparently the Zipp tape is just enough thinner that it gives a little more room.

As far as technique, my wise old mechanic showed me a trick that has really helped me. Instead of using your thumbs, which are often not strong enough, use the top of your palms (where it meets your fingers) with your fingers wrapped over the top of the tire to work the tire onto the rim. Start at the outsides and work in toward the middle. It takes some practice, but using this technique he showed me he could mount the PR2 on the Proton with much less effort. It's hard to explain in writing...

[flydhest]

+1 Definitely . . . not thumbs, use the area where the mini-callouses are where the fingers meet the rest of the hand. Much easier than thumbs. You can essentially roll the tire on instead of pushing it.


As far as technique, my wise old mechanic showed me a trick that has really helped me. Instead of using your thumbs, which are often not strong enough, use the top of your palms (where it meets your fingers) with your fingers wrapped over the top of the tire to work the tire onto the rim. Start at the outsides and work in toward the middle. It takes some practice, but using this technique he showed me he could mount the PR2 on the Proton with much less effort. It's hard to explain in writing...

[wooly]

+2 on the Veloflexes. I ran Paves on my shamals and they were the easiest to deal with.

[lhuerta]

I am sure there is a "how-to mount tires" thread on this board already so I will try not to be redundant, but here are two quick tips which may already be obvious to many: 1.) Make sure you apply talcum/baby powder to the inside of your tire before inserting tube. Spread the powder around the entire tire inner and this will insure that your tube will not stick to the tire when mounting and assist in preventing binding/pinching (will also make your tires smell like a baby's bottom). 2.) Be sure to add just a bit of air to your tube before inserting in the tire, this will allow the tube to take the shape of the tire and make it easier to tuck inside the tire and out of the way of the bead when mounting.

I own three sets of Nucleons/Neutrons and have never had a problem mounting tires, and never had to use more then two tire levers. I have used Michelin, Vredestein, Veloflex, Maxxis, Vittoria and Continental (among others). Contitnentals have always required a bot more elbow, but certainly do-able. I use both 23c and 25c (my preferred size), foldable and non-foldable, and I always use Michelin or Contitnental tubes.

Good luck.

[jlwdm]

And Lennard Zinn says always finish at the valve - don't start there.

Jeff

[sailorboy]

thanks for all the tips, and yes, I've known about the powder, mainly to decrease the chance of pinching the tube in the bead at that last push onto the rim. And I'm even talking about tires that have been on other rims, so they're not new.
It seems that once a particular tire has 'lost its virginity' to the nucleons, they seem to go on easier the next time. It's just that first time that is a killer with most. Not surprised to hear others had similar experiences. Will try the spit technique also, thanks.

[Larry]

And Lennard Zinn says always finish at the valve - don't start there.

Jeff
Why would you finish at the valve?

[Dave]

Finishing at the valve would not be wise - more likely to have problems with pinching. I always start there and end somewhere far from it.

[C5 Snowboarder]

I have Eurus - and they easily mount tires - no tools -- just a thumb push... Conti 4000 and Michelin P2 and 3 race... no difference - easy


Maybe you have a bit too much air in the tube. Or the tire bead is not seated well on the opposite end of the rim as you push that last bit over.

[kestrel]

Finishing at the valve would not be wise - more likely to have problems with pinching. I always start there and end somewhere far from it.

Different strokes?

I always finish at the valve to avoid pinching. Once done mounting, a simple push of the valve stem, then a pull to reseat inside tire bead before applying air.
Mounting clinchers since early 80's, no pinches from mounting. :D

[Ralph]

Finishing at the valve would not be wise - more likely to have problems with pinching. I always start there and end somewhere far from it.

Me too.

[djg]

Ok, to each his or her own, chacun son tires, whatever, but I'll admit that I don't much care for clinchers. I have some anyway and . . . well, because of a series of impulsive decisions my main training wheels are reynolds carbon clinchers built around a powertap rear hub. I mounted some new conti gp4000 clinchers on them yesterday and what the effin' hell -- that was a pITA. OTOH, they did go on, and with any luck they'll hold up for a couple of thousand miles and so, I'd say, at least with some tires (a) it's not just a campag issue and (b) whatever -- it was a hassle for a few minutes and now it's over and I don't see why it's a big deal.

And I seat the valve first because I think it's easier to avoid pinching at the valve if both the valve and the surrounding part of the tire are nice and straight to begin with and because I don't want the tire shoving around that part of the tube if there's some pushing and fussing to be done at the end.

[jlwdm]

Larry and Dave:

Here is Lennard Zinn's mailbag response:

That said, I am willing to bet you that both of those flats were caused by the inner tube being caught under the rim bead. And catching the tube under the bead is far more likely to happen with a tight tire that you have to mount with levers. There is no way to get a long rip in a tube like that without blowing the tire off of the rim, and there is no way to get a tight tire to blow off of the rim (at least one that is sized appropriately to the rim – see below) without getting some inner tube underneath it to lift it off. Yes, the heat of braking precipitated the occurrence, but it was the trapped inner tube edge that, once the pressure came up enough due to the heat, blew the tire off.
When mounting any tire, but especially a tight tire, you need to make sure to finish at the valve stem, and not start at the valve like so many people do. This will significantly reduce the chance of that happening.
Not only is tire installation best by finishing at the valve stem, but removal of the tire is also most easily accomplished by starting near the valve stem. That way, the beads of the deflated tire can fall into the dropped center (“valley”) of the rim on the opposite side of the wheel, making it effectively a smaller-circumference rim onto (or off of) which you are pushing the tire bead. If you instead push the tire bead onto (or off of) the rim on the side opposite the valve stem as a high percentage of people do, the circumference on which the bead is resting is larger, because the valve stem is forcing the beads to stay up on their seating ledges opposite where you are working.
I would not be at all surprised to find out that you had such a struggle mounting these tires that you had to resort to tire levers because you had started mounting the tire’s second bead at the valve stem and worked around from there, finishing opposite the valve.
And if you’re considering tubeless tires – and it is no secret that I’m a big advocate, and agree with you that they could eliminate this risk — you should know that adhering to this mounting method is particularly critical with a tubeless road tire, because the bead is very tight, it is carbon fiber and does not stretch at all, and you must install the tire without tire levers to avoid damaging the tire’s edges that seal the air in.
With a standard, tubed clincher tire, there is another reason to finish at the valve stem besides ease of mounting, namely exactly what I think happened to you: ending up with a little bit of inner tube trapped under the tire bead where you finished pushing the tire onto the rim. You may even have taken the (appropriate and highly recommended) precaution of starting with some air in the tube to keep it from twisting and getting under the bead as you push the tire on, finally deflating it as is normally required only when it prevents you from getting the final few inches of the tire bead on. However, the edge of the flat tube can slip under the bead edge as it pops into the rim at that point, and this is even more likely to occur with a thin, latex tube.
When you pump it up to pressure with some tube caught under the bead, it may immediately blow the tire off of the rim (temporarily deafening you, the explosion is so loud), or it may explode at some point soon while riding. In either case, you will have an un-patchable tube, just like the two you’re now the proud owner of, with a long rip down its length. And, as you have now seen firsthand twice, you may experience risking your life if it is your front tire blowing at high speed, especially on a turn.
Minimize explosion likelihood by finishing installing the tire bead at the valve stem from either side. The edge of the deflated tube may still slip under the tire bead as you push the last bit on, but it tends to do it less because the tire is less tight when mounted this way. But those caught tube edges, if they’re there at all, will be under just the final sections of bead extending in either direction from the valve stem. If you then push up on the valve stem after the tire is on, you can suck the adjacent sections of inner tube completely into the tire chamber and ensure that none is caught under the edge, waiting to blow the tire off of the rim. In any case, before pumping, always inspect around the edges of the tire bead by pushing inward on them so that you can see down into the rim alongside the tire.
So here’s the mounting protocol for the second bead, after the first bead is on and the slightly-inflated tube is in place inside the tire:
1. Starting at the side opposite the valve stem, push the tire bead onto the rim with your thumbs. Be sure that the tube doesn’t get pinched between the tire bead and the rim.
2. Work around the rim in both directions with your thumbs, pushing the tire onto the rim. Finish from both sides at the valve, deflating the tube when it gets hard to push more of the tire onto the rim. Using this method, you can often install a tire without tools. If you cannot, use tire levers, but make sure you don’t catch any of the tube under the edge of the bead. Finish the same way, at the valve.
3. Reseat the valve stem by pushing up on the valve after you have pushed the last bit of bead onto the rim. You may have to manipulate the tire so that all the tube is tucked under the tire bead; check that it’s all under before pumping.
As for a tire appropriate to the rim, I assume your tire is 23mm or perhaps 25mm wide or you wouldn’t care enough about weight to be using a latex tube. According to ISO, a 23mm tire is recommended only on hook-bead rims whose inner width is 13-15mm, and a 25mm tire is recommended only on hook-bead rims whose inner width is 13-17mm. That DT Swiss rim, which I think is about 14mm wide interior to the hook beads, would be ideal for 23mm and 25mm tires.

[thwart]

Actually had a chance today to mount a coupla' new tires on Nucleon rims... so I tried the 'valve area last' approach. It works. Much easier to finish the tire mounting process.

And, yes... you do indeed have to be a bit careful with tube/valve placement to avoid the less-than-perfectly true valvestem when you finish. :rolleyes:

[Avispa]

So I love campy's wheelset, but I don't love the fact that they are a bit larger diameter than most other factory wheelsets or rims from other brands, making it a bear to get most tires on there. Anyone else riding neutrons or eurus that can recommend a performance tire that is also not a chore to get on the rims?

I have used vittoria EVOs and conti grand prix 4000 and need that level of quality, but they are among the ones that suck getting on the rim.

thx

I have used the combination of tires/wheels you are talking about... But I have come to the con conclusion that it is NOT the rim the problem; the problem are the tires! One reason I say this is because at the moment I am using Reynolds carbon wheels exclusively and I have found the same problem mounting tires on these rims.

For obvious reasons, one has to be very careful with carbon rims. Therefore, I mount the tires by hand on these rims, which is btw, a major pain if the tires are tight! Most of the tires that seem to be hard to mount in my experience are tires with thick beads, such as the Contis and Michelins.

I am now using Schwalbe Ultremo DD in the rear and Schwalbe R.1 in the front. I think these tires mount like butter! Just as the Veloflex I used to ride with... The only problem with the Schwalbes is that one has to be extremely careful mounting them or else you will have a tube blow out due to the fact that the bead not sitting properly on the rim.

Hope this helps!

..A..