Octalink question

[Ray]

I recently installed a set of Ritchey compact cranks on a bike with an octalink bb. This is my first octalink setup. I got the arms in the right position and cranked them down pretty tight and then installed the little self-extractor rings on the outside of the crank bolt. My problem is that something is loosening up as I ride and on a couple of 50 mile rides, I've had the non-driveside crank loosen up to the point that a small amount of play develops between the crank and bb. I can feel it through my shoes. When I get home and tighten it up, the play is gone, but it doesn't seem to want to stay tight, even when I crank extremely hard on the crank bolts.

Is there some trick to installation - there were no instructions with either the cranks or the BB. Am I missing something here?

-Ray

[DfCas]

Octalink stuff frequently gets installed "off spline" (new phrase?)which damages the spline on the cranks.

If they are new and undamaged,you may need to tighten them more.I had a set do the same thing at the recommended torque setting,so I just tightened them as tight as I could,using a 15 inch lever.They actually seemed to bottom out,and further tightening was not possible.

You can look at the spline and see if it is damaged.

Hope this helps,

[Birddog]

Yep, I'll bet it is mis-aligned. If you didn't bugger more than about 1/3 of the spline it'll be OK if you re-align it and re-install. You may have to clean up the damage with a small file. Don't ask me why I know this.
Birddog

[Ray]

And I was real careful about the alignment. I made sure the splines were engaged before I ever inserted the crank bolt. I removed the crank after the second time it happened and the splines weren't damaged at all, so I'm quite sure its not a misalignment problem. I also cranked them down as hard as I could (although only using a 6-8 inch wrench), but they seem to want to back out anyway. I did grease the threads which may make it easier for them to back out. Maybe I'll clean off the grease and try a couple wraps of plumbers tape to give it a tighter fit. And look into a mondo 15 inch wrench :cool:

Thanks,

-Ray

[Too Tall]

Did you leave the washer out that goes behind the axel bolt?

[Ray]

Did you leave the washer out that goes behind the axel bolt?
Ahhh, very good question. There were two washers - one is loosly attached to the inner portion of the axle bolt. I couldn't remove it if I tried so it's in there. There was another black washer that didn't seem to fit ANYWHERE and, yeah, I left it out, figuring it must be for some odd application that was not relevant to me. That sort of bugged me, but I forgot about it. Should have mentioned this in the initial post. WHERE does that sucker go?

-Ray

[dave thompson]

Ray: You can't get enough torque with a 6~8" wrench to properly torque down an OctaLink crank.The specs are 25~35 ft lbs, which is a lot! Someone once decribed that amount of torque as "face shaking tight". If the crank isn't tightened enough and starts to wobble around, it could become toast.

Regarding the two washers; one goes underneath the crank bolt, the other goes in between the dustcap and the top of the crankbolt. If you are going to use the dustcap as part of the self-extraction later, make sure you lube the inside of the dust cap, the dust cap threads, that washer and the top of the crank bolt. If you don't, you could rip the dust cap out when trying to remove the crank.

[Ray]

Dave,

The permanantly attached washer is underneath the crank bolt. The other one didn't fit in between the crank bolt and the dustcap I don't think - I'll have to double check now that you've told me how it's supposed to work. I wouldn't really say there is a dustcap per se, just the little threaded in piece that you thread in with a pin spanner that creates the resistance for the self-extraction function. I've already self-extracted it once without either lube or the washer in place, so I guess I'm lucky I didn't mess the whole thing up.

Thanks for the advice on torque - I'll go find a longer wrench.

-Ray

[dave thompson]

Ray: 'Dustcaps' & 'self-extractor rings' same things. The second washer fits up inside the dust cap and gives the crankbolt head a bearing surface when you are 'self-extracting' it.

[IXXI]

...because i didn't know what to do with that 'extra' black washer on my wcs set either and assumed it belonged in the milled out area around the pedals--between the pedal axle and crank arm!!! i mean it fit, so it must be right....right? what a moron. thanks for the heads up; luckily nothing is torqued down yet. (and all this after following the original 'grease-your-dustcaps' thread so closely.)

another saved by the forum!

clueless, off the back, in the dark,
andy

[M_A_Martin]

You know...maybe I'm just a particular tech writing dweeb, but for cranks I use an actual torque wrench on my cranks and Torque to spec. Since I'm no longer a farm girl, I usually need to use a helper bar on the torque wrench handle to get to the right torque. I'd rather be accurate, than loose.

But that's just me.

[MRB]

There are two different versions of the Octalink spindle. One is the XT / LX compatible version, the other is the DA, ULT, XTR version. You can not intermix, as I found out. Luckily I hac a set of allen wrenches with me.

HTH

[Ray]

Ray: 'Dustcaps' & 'self-extractor rings' same things. The second washer fits up inside the dust cap and gives the crankbolt head a bearing surface when you are 'self-extracting' it.
OK, finally got over the flu and took another look at this. The second waster doesn't fit up inside the dustcap, its slightly wider than the end of the dustcap and it prevents the dustcap from threading in and getting snug up against the crank-bolt. I now don't honestly remember whether the bolts, self-extractors, and washers came with the crank (I think this musta been the case) or with the BB (highly unlikely). In either case, there's simply no place for this second washer to go. And the self-extractor works fine without it, so I'm really wondering what it's role is sposed to be.

So I'm gonna assume that the basic problem was that I hadn't torqued the crank bolt down hard enough and work on that end of the problem and ignore the washer for now. If this doesn't work, I guess it's time to go crawling into my LBS.

-Ray

[TimD]

[QUOTE=dave thompson]Ray: You can't get enough torque with a 6~8" wrench to properly torque down an OctaLink crank.The specs are 25~35 ft lbs, which is a lot! Someone once decribed that amount of torque as "face shaking tight.
/QUOTE]

Apologies to Dave, but you want to be careful here. Thirty-five foot-pounds is indeed a lot of torque if you are used to working on bikes, but it is not very much at all if you are used to working on cars. For example, your average wheel nut applied by an air tool is torqued to 100 ft-lbs, if not more, and certainly they can and have made my face shake while trying to remove one.

If you use a 12" wrench, 35 ft-lbs translates into a linear force applied by your arm (or leg) of (you guessed it), 35 pounds. I'm not even remotely a he-man but momentarily lifting a 35 lb weight does not make my face shake!

I would guess that many Serotta owners can afford a cheap torque wrench from Sears or Harbor Freight Tools, so if you feel uncomfortable with the uncertainty, you might consider buying one. They are especially useful for tightening stem bolts, and seatpost clamp bolts securing carbon seatposts.

Regards
TimD

[Dave]

http://bike.shimano.com/media/cycling/techdocs/en/bikecomponents/FC/EV-FC-5502-2167_v2_m56577569830494125.pdf

http://bike.shimano.com/media/cycling/techdocs/en/bikecomponents/FC/SI-fc5502_v2_m56577569830538361.pdf

Ritchey doesn't provide any online instructions that I can find.

[christian]

Bend, pry, hit: Harbor Freight tool ok.
Other purpose: Harbor Freight tool bad.

Buy a Craftsman torque wrench. They're perfectly decent, and a heck of a lot cheaper than the Snap-On one.

- Christian

[Ray]

...because i didn't know what to do with that 'extra' black washer on my wcs set either and assumed it belonged in the milled out area around the pedals--between the pedal axle and crank arm!!! i mean it fit, so it must be right....right? what a moron. thanks for the heads up; luckily nothing is torqued down yet. (and all this after following the original 'grease-your-dustcaps' thread so closely.)

another saved by the forum!

clueless, off the back, in the dark,
andy
Andy, trust your instincts. You were right - they ARE pedal washers. When something fits one place and not another, it probably goes where it fits!! Stopped by my LBS tonight and turned out I was doing everything right except probably not torqueing the bolts down tight enough. That and not using the pedal washers. They also let me try a set of crank bolts without self-extractors that they say they've had better luck with, not that they had a lot of experience with Ritchey cranks. We shall see.

[IXXI]

So even a blind squirrel gets a nut every once in a while...

Thanks for the info Ray. I still hadn't moved on my set-up, but good to know I wasn't far off in the first place. Either way, I think its time I invest in a torque wrench.

Thanks again for circling back on this. Love this forum!