Evolution Pt. 2- Me on the Bike

[dirtdigger88]

I was asked my a few people to post pix of me on the bike with my new postion- here you go- how is this for opening yourself up for jabs? :confused:

Jason

[csb]

phuckinuckledragger

[soulspinner]

I gotta say it before someone else does...your stem too short! OK joke times over.

[Dr. Doofus]

100 percent pure forum know-nothing speculation...but...

sufoodsiht suspects you'll go to a 140 stem and slide the saddle back another cm eventually...

dude, you must have been megabunchedup before all the changes!

[jerk]

dirt-
the bike and the fit looks great. welcome to the club of riding a properly handling bicycle in the proper way. (help the jerk add to this cult.)
jerk

[dirtdigger88]

100 percent pure forum know-nothing speculation...but...

sufoodsiht suspects you'll go to a 140 stem and slide the saddle back another cm eventually...


you may be right- the thoughts have crossed my mind

Jason

[H.Frank Beshear]

Since you've got the big shark kit are you riding for them or advertising. Theres a good bunch of them at the crit on memorial day in Rock Island. If your racing I'll carbo load you the night before :banana: :D If you just show up to watch I'll still carbo load you the night before and then we can ride in the morning. :beer: Its a great shop by the way. Frank

[weisan]

dirt-pal, thanks for posting these pictures. As I mentioned earlier, I went through an adjustment period as well. Below are some pictures of the "Before" and "After" shots. First and foremost, I must state that my new position wouldn't have worked two years ago if I did not allow time for my body to adapt, gain more flexibility and for my core muscle to develop to the point where it can handle a more stretched out position. Before getting back on riding again, I was basically getting fat and unfit due to family commitments and pure laziness. So, that period of adaptation is essential. Plus I have to consider the fact that I have lingering lower back issues due to an old injury 15 years ago, I was not super keen about getting into aggressive riding position. Talk about an aggressive pose, you would get a kick out of this. The third shot I shared below is the first bike I got before it was stolen from the garage and the insurance payout was used in purchasing the Legend. Check out that ridiculous setup I have, even today when I looked back at it, it makes my back hurts. :D
It was a miracle I was not carried out in a stretcher after doing its first 30-mile ride. Somehow, I imagine myself as this former nineteen year-old riding on his Olmo lugged steel charging up with the field in the drops riding tempo. I am glad I regain my senses pretty quick before any serious injury occur.

Picture #1: The setup on my legend when I first started riding. Noticed the saddle scooped all the way to the front, and the stem raised to a dangerously high position way past the safety margin.

http://www.alicehui.com/serotta/position/legend_before.jpg

Picture #2: My current position. I am still playing with the saddle placement. For now, I doubt I would need a seatpost with setback.

http://www.alicehui.com/serotta/position/legend_current.jpg

And last but not least, my first bike four years ago set up for that nineteen-year-old living in my defunct memory. :D

http://www.alicehui.com/serotta/position/khs_flite1.jpg

Sorry for the length of my post. I am moved by dirt-pal's sincerity to share, but I am not quite as courageous as he is in including myself on the bike. My guts would show too much for your taste. :p

weisan

[CNote]

This is an odd brand of voyeurism we have gotten ourselves into. I actually imagined someone much more stretched out than you actually are. I concur with Doofus that you will eventually get longer and lower.

[Ti Designs]

I'm looking at where you are out on the hoods and where your center of gravity is and where the pedals are at the front of the pedal stroke. My feeling is that longer and lower would work, both in terms of setback from saddle to pedal and in stem height. The limiting factor here would be range of motion, which the pictures can't show.

Here's a little test in bike position, it's free so there's no down side - just make sure to mark where you are now before changing it. What we're looking for is the greatest useage of large muscle groups without going out of the normal working range of any other part of your body (mostly lower back and hamstrings in this case). You'll want to set up a trainer next to a large mirror, or better yet have a friend do the checking. The goal is to add setback (moving the seat back) and watch to see if the lower back is compensating as the pedal goes over the top of the stroke - small changes!!! The second part of this is to lower the bars and continue to check. Both adjustments increase angle of the hips, but they also change where the body weight is over the pedals. As you've done the one leg workouts, you can use that as a test to see if you're still within your own range of motion. If you can't pull a round pedal stroke while out on the hoods it means you're using the other leg to push that one over the top, which wastes energy and causes fatigue. In that case it's time to pull it right back to where you had it before and call it good (maybe recheck in a few months whey you have more miles and more flexability).

The next phase is testing. In a perfect world you would have a power meter for this, but just a trainer, knowing RPMs, gear and resistance setting can tell you relative gains or losses. It's interval time - 30 seconds on, 90 seconds off as a baseline. The goal here is to see where your body winds up, which muscle groups you favor, what's the limiting factor, and (given adaptation time) if you're producing more power. Example: you get into the interval in a 53x13 and your quads are screaming at you 20 seconds into it but your glutes are still fine. My first reaction would be to move the saddle back a bit, recheck saddle height and adapt your style slightly over time. This is a season long process, you make slight changes and take the time for your body to adapt. The goal is to make the limiting factor your cardiovascular system, not one muscle group playing weakest link.

[dbrk]

How we sit on a bike is one thing, what happens when that bike is pedalled on the road is quite another. This is why I am no real fan of the Serotta Fit Cycle thingamagig, leaving aside what I have thought of the fitters. There I go again, but Jason like many others here has commented that they need a set back post to get further back. As the back flattens with the shoulder blades laying more evenly (this being good yoga, so it would be good on a long, even, flat back), you will naturally stretch out. (This is why, well, one of the reasons that I ride a 58.5 or 59cm top tube and still use a 12cm stem...) But one of the problems here is setback. These bikes strike me as designed with too little, a problem compounded by these [stupid, editor's note] shaft seatposts which steal even more, causing one to resort to a more exaggerated set back post, piling compromise upon folly. The solution is not hard to imagine: a slacker seat tube angle from the get-go, a normal post (does anyone but Nitto make these anymore?), and a saddle that doesn' t have to be slammed back all the way but gives you some room because it sits in the middle of the rails.

I too predict Jason will get longer, flatter, lower but if the bike were slacker and taller he would _still_ get longer and lower and flatter but the overall look and fit would be more comfortable at no cost to the "racer" design ('cause race bikes are not audax bikes and audax bikes are not for the old and fat only but for an entirely different sort of cycling.)

I have three times this morning violated my own self-imposed dictum to keep my mouth shut but if I am going to open it I might as well get in trouble.

dbrk

[Dr. Doofus]

thank you, mr doug brooks of rochester, new york...whattawondafulguy...and our next contestant is...waittaminute....

okay folks we have some time to fill, so lets look at what the yoga man said. Hmmm. Yep. He's right. When the butt goes back, the back flattens out and the shoulders relax...but as our follically challenged kermesse krazy from the harvard cycling club noted, how far that tushy can get back-cushy with the seat and how far the hands can cover more land out front depends on individual values...but don't we all depend on individual values? Except for my cousin Louie, he has no values....

yerrawondaful crowd, have you been told that? really, yerrdoof thinks yerrawondeaful settafellas....

But like out downward dog daddy was saying, long top tubes and slack seat angles can work mighty fine...of course, most folks who ride a 55-58 frame can get the same result on a 73-ish sta with a "traditional" length top tube...which is why old guys in Italy and balding guys in Connecticut have been making those kind of bikes for a long time....

Okay, gents, now we have our guest, so lets have a big hand for whatthehellshisname again....

[dirtdigger88]

just a note before I head off to do the whole Easter/Family thing

first I failed to mention before but I am on my rollers on these pix- if that make any difference to anyone

csb- :p

Doof- thanks for sharing

Frank- yes I sorta ride for Big Shark- I say sorta because I really dont get to race as often as I would like

weisan- thanks for sharing

ti- I will have to re read your post a few time to understand- when I do I will be in touch

dbrk- I am honnored you stopped in- :>} I know how you hate those pre fab emotion icons-

Jason

[BumbleBeeDave]

Good to hear from you again!

As for the slacker seat tube angle, my own experience last year of moving my saddle back just a bit and going to a shorter stem seemed to really improve my power and comfort by putting me in juuust a bit more upright position. The moving back a bit helped, but it seems if I had done that by magically slackening my seat tube angle on this same frame, then I would have ended up back a bit, BUT also more stretched out for a given stem length--and that would not have been good for my back and shoulders.

All of this has really brought home to me that my fit session seemed to be a compromise. My fitter remarked that I was very hunched over on my old Vitus--which was correct. So he fitted me as best he could for what I had requested, a bike that handle nimbly, which if I’m understanding it correctly means a taller seat tube angle, not slacker. Is that right? But he also tried to get rid of what seemed--to him--to be a bad, hunched over position.

I ended up too stretched out, with a Thompson set-back post and a 110 stem. By the end of my first week my back was screaming for help. Of course, it probably didn’t help that the aforementioned first week included a 150 mile MS ride!

I immediately changed to a 100 stem and now have a 90. So my position has migrated to slightly more upright since then, with the saddle back a bit farther on a Blackstick post, the saddle back a bit, and what would seem to some to be too many spacers on the front. But it seems to work for me. It’s certainly more comfortable AND I have more power stroke AND I get more use out of it because I have a bit more weight over the back wheel now.

As for YOU, Jason, I’m glad you have figured out what’s right for you, because that’s a very pretty bike and I’d hate to see you not enjoying riding it. But you DO have very long arms! . . . ;)

BBDave

[M_A_Martin]

Jason,
It's good to see you abandon your mtb friendly position that you were using before and move in more of a road appropriate direction. I hope it works as it should. Banana
Ginger

[GoJavs]

The position looks good. The most comfortable position for me is the one on the last pic. That's where I usually like to spend most of my time and that position sort of follows what the rest of the group was saying....longer and lower...

Thank you for sharing. Can't promise I'll do the same. I'm an awkward-looking, Karate Kid-as-a-grown-up-looking Cuban guy...

[dirtdigger88]

Thank you for sharing. Can't promise I'll do the same. I'm an awkward-looking, Karate Kid-as-a-grown-up-looking Cuban guy...

Yeah- cuz I am so "model" like right- I am more the "before" picture than "after"

jason

[musgravecycles]

Dirt,
I've gotta agree with most people who have already commented. I think that you could stand to go a bit longer. I'd try Ti Design's recomendations and see how that works. I can't imagine how bunched up you must of been before the adjustments...

[yzfrr11]

Dirt,
I've gotta agree with most people who have already commented. I think that you could stand to go a bit longer. I'd try Ti Design's recomendations and see how that works. I can't imagine how bunched up you must of been before the adjustments...
I totally agree here - your position looks very nice. But, rather than going longer with the stem, I would raise your seat about 5mm. It looks like, in the last photo, your knee could stand to extend about 5 more degrees at bottom dead center.

[zap]

I agree, longer and lower. Can't add much more than what others have posted.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . . If your leg is at full extension in that photo, it could use a bit more extension.

BBDave