Custom frame from a friend's garage

[toasttoast]

Hi Serotta dudes,

I have a sweet opportunity to get a custom-built frame from a friend of mine who is starting up as a framebuilder. He's still a long ways away from doing anything commercially -- he's in the middle of a frame for another friend now, as well as something for himself, and mine is somewhere after that in queue. Ideally, I'll get it at some point between September (my college gradution) and New Years 2011.

My question here is -- what kind of frame do I want? I do have all my basic bike "needs" covered - touring, cyclocross, custom steel, fixed gear, etc - by six other bikes :) That also means I will probably sell one or two to make room for the new frame.

I know that I want room and braze-ons for full fenders, as well as at least 30mm tires... if not considerably bigger! This frame will be for a geared bike, and I'll probably FINALLY make the plunge into a truly modern group, probably either Rival, Veloce, or Athena11.

I also know at this point in my life that I'm not much of a "roadie". Not a big fan of "training rides". I like group stuff, usually at a relaxed pace, but I also appreciate a hard effort. What I do like, though, is riding *to* places. Therefore, this bike probably needs to be able to carry at least a light load (20 pounds?) of food, tools, changes of clothes, maybe even a sleeping bag.

I'm also a fairly small guy, at 5'6". This certainly isn't small enough to rule out 700c wheels, but I am intrigued by both 650b and 26" offerings. This bike: http://redkiteprayer.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/IMG_0876.jpg stuck in my mind... but I'm not sure to what degree it would be a novelty, versus a reliable, everyday, long-mileage rides.

Oh, and the guy has no fork jig, so I'll need to be buying one elsewhere :)

Anyway, if anyone has words of advice from being in a similar situation, or is otherwise able to form a coherent response to this rambling post, please chime in.

Thanks a bunch!

[eddief]

finely designed all purp. riv sam is the man. i've owned 650b bikes. mine seemed sluggish. maybe it was me who was the slug. but you can get fat plump tires on a 700c and they work well. on the other hand, i also believe in variety being the spice.

this is one heck of a good looker considering it is lugged, sloping top tube, finely bent fork. long wheel base, canti brakes, and room for fats with fenders and racks too.

[Peter P.]

While I have no suggestions on what kind of frame to get, I CAN offer you some advice about getting a frame from a novice builder.

Assemble and ride the frame BEFORE it's painted, to confirm it's straight. Just about everything that can go wrong will not be as big a deal as a frame that doesn't track straight. And the price should reflect your friend's experience, or you should hold a balance in escrow until you're satisfied with the frame. After all, your friend is new to the business and should have to assume some responsibility while he's learning.

I had a friend who was a novice builder construct a frame for me. He got all the specs right but there were a few flaws: The downtube shifters wouldn't tighten because there was braze material inside the threaded holes; The front derailleur braze-on was crooked so the mechanism wouldn't shift correctly, and worst of all, THE FRAME WASN'T STRAIGHT. I brought the frame to a career framebuilder/painter to have it checked and painted, and he said when he brought part of the frame into line, another part would go out of alignment. He couldn't guarantee how it would ride. Sure enough, the frame pulled to the left. I trashed it after a year.

Caveat emptor.

[srice]

Does your friend have liability insurance? I wouldn't touch the frame unless he did. This isn't saying that he can't build a straight frame, I would just worry that if he is taking shortcuts by skipping the insurance, he could be taking shortcuts in other areas as well. Remember, the insurance isn't really for him - it is to help get your life back together if the frame fails and results in your injury.

I'm really not trying to rain on your parade, but this is a very important subject. I've been building myself and NOBODY is swinging a leg over one of my frames until I am confident in their construction and I can adequately protect them with insurance.

Steve Rice

[toasttoast]

No liability insurance, but the cost for me will reflect that - basically, the cost of materials, plus a little extra for his investment in tools. That does, of course, leave the possibility of a worst-case scenario: a disastrous, injury-inducing structural failure. I suppose it comes down to a matter of trust... I wouldn't be doing this without at a large amount of confidence in his skill, patience, attention to detail, etc.

As far as basic frame quality things - well, you get what you pay for :) If I wanted a screaming deal from a legit builder, I shoulda jumped on the Taylor "economic stimulus" deal earlier this year. Again, I just have to make sure to discuss and plan everything thoroughly, and hope for the best. In a similar case, one of my roommates had rear rack braze-ons added to her Univega, by a different amateur welder. They came in sort of off-kilter, so she has her rack struts on the inside of one braze-on and the outside of the other. Oddball and not ideal, but it works. Of course, FRAME alignment is far more important than small braze-ons...

And thanks for the painting idea. A good thing to keep in mind.

[54ny77]

as long as he has a good website you're golden. :beer:

[Ken Robb]

and groovy team kit for racers.

[Lifelover]

If you have all your needs covered already, let him do something that will allow him to gain some new experience.

Maybe set some minimum requirements, otherwise let him make the calls.

[mister]

make sure you or him are able to come up with a good design...

[retrogrouchy]

as long as he has a good website you're golden. :beer:

....And good color ways, and has moved to Portland......

Plus, he has to smear Vaseline on his knees and wear ladies' jeans.

(Have folks seen that hilarious Youtube animated video about moving to Portland to be a frame builder?).

[retrogrouchy]

No liability insurance, but the cost for me will reflect that - basically, the cost of materials, plus a little extra for his investment in tools. That does, of course, leave the possibility of a worst-case scenario: a disastrous, injury-inducing structural failure. I suppose it comes down to a matter of trust... I wouldn't be doing this without at a large amount of confidence in his skill, patience, attention to detail, etc.

As far as basic frame quality things - well, you get what you pay for :) If I wanted a screaming deal from a legit builder, I shoulda jumped on the Taylor "economic stimulus" deal earlier this year. Again, I just have to make sure to discuss and plan everything thoroughly, and hope for the best. In a similar case, one of my roommates had rear rack braze-ons added to her Univega, by a different amateur welder. They came in sort of off-kilter, so she has her rack struts on the inside of one braze-on and the outside of the other. Oddball and not ideal, but it works. Of course, FRAME alignment is far more important than small braze-ons...

And thanks for the painting idea. A good thing to keep in mind.

Ooh, no insurance sounds really, really, really bad. He shouldn't sell frame one without it. Huge mistake, imo.

Why not just make one yourself if that's the case? You can take Doug Fattic's class, for example, right Doug?