Pedal Choice

[WickedWheels]

Just curious as to what people are riding

[rugbysecondrow]

Crank Brothers my man.

[MattTuck]

Speedplays have been great in the year since I switched.

[eddief]

got hooked and no reason to switch.

easy, but spendy to do rebuild service.

[mike p]

Shimano Dura Ace, nuff said.

Mike

[thegunner]

zeroes

[mgm777]

Speedplay Zero para mi.

[dave thompson]

I'm using Shimano DA and anxiously awaiting a set of Vista Magic-X pedals.

[DaveS]

I'm a significant minority, but I love the Keywin pedals. Started using them on the track, and liked them so much I started using them for road as well.

[WickedWheels]

So far it's what I thought...

For road-specific pedals at my shop I stock every model of Shimano, Look and Speedplay pedals. I haven't been stocking the road Crank Bros or Time's (or BeeBop, Winwood or anything else funky) and the Time rep has been trying to get into the store. My response was "when I have more than one customer per year asking for them I will start stocking them". It looks like so far I'm on the ball with this one.

[TAW]

Shimano Dura Ace, nuff said.

Mike

I'll second this. I've given up on Look and Time, bought the Shimano and like them. Easy to get into, wide platform, NO SQUEAKING!!!!! ;)

[Elefantino]

Me? X

Wife? X

Neighbor? X

[Don49]

Crank Brothers Quattro (Ti & SL) and Eggbeaters (Ti & SL) on all bikes now.

[thegunner]

Crank Brothers Quattro (Ti & SL) and Eggbeaters (Ti & SL) on all bikes now.

those quattro's must be hard to find cleats for now though :(

[Don49]

those quattro's must be hard to find cleats for now though :(

Not really. Quattro cleats are readily available from Crank Brothers. Standard Eggbeater cleats on a mtb shoe like a Sidi Dominator also work with Quattros.

[dogdriver]

00

[dmurphey]

Speedplay Light Action with Lake road shoe for just road, and Speedplay Frogs on mountain or touring shoe for all round use, so you can walk without killing yourself.

[William]

Speedplay and Eggbeaters. Is there anything else? ;)



William

[jpw]

Coombe,...and I have spare cleats and indents ;)

[RADaines]

Speedplay Zeros for me, Speedplay X-series for my wife and Speedplay Frogs on my mtn bike.

[snah]

DA on one, Campy on the other.

[m.skeen]

Speedplay Zeros - only pedal I've ever ridden

[572cv]

I rode and liked crankbros with their elegant simplicity. Much to admire. I use a pedal which serves mountain/cross shoes, so the walking around part is not so nasty. But I found that I floated around too much in the pedals, and my knees began to suffer. The Time ATAC is an upgrade in that respect. Not as elegant a pedal, but they have worked better for my knees. BTW I use Sidi shoes with these.

[Ozz]

Campy ProFit...

[David Kirk]

Vista drop-axle pedals. Lower your center of mass, saddle and bars by 12 mm and get a very rigid shoe/pedal interface.

http://www.vistadeal.com/En/Home.php - turn down your volume.

Dave

[jblande]

Vista drop-axle pedals. Lower your center of mass, saddle and bars by 12 mm and get a very rigid shoe/pedal interface.

http://www.vistadeal.com/En/Home.php - turn down your volume.

Dave


You recommend these for both mountain bike and road use?

[David Kirk]

You recommend these for both mountain bike and road use?

No. I don't think it's a good choice for off road. I use Times on my MTB and Cross bikes.

Dave

[fourflys]

Shimano for me on my road and mtn/cross... was using 105 spd-sl and recently acquired a set of DA's from SoCalSteve...

I've tried the Crank Bros smarties and egg beaters as well as speedplays for road went back to my Shimano pretty quick... even on my Campy bikes!

[Birddog]

4 X's
2 Eggs (1 Candy, 1 Regular)

If I was to start from scratch, I'd give strong consideration to Eggs only so that I had a single cleat type for Road, Mtn, other. I do like my Speedplays though.

[fatallightning]

spd-sl, r540 on the track bike, da7800 on the road bike. i pulled out of road SPD types and broke my pinky last last thanksgiving.

[buck-50]

A mix of Deltas and crank bros.

[Bud_E]

I went from Look to Shimano ( Ultegra cause I'm sure I couldn't tell the difference from Dura-Ace ). They work very well.

[Dekonick]

Vista drop-axle pedals. Lower your center of mass, saddle and bars by 12 mm and get a very rigid shoe/pedal interface.

http://www.vistadeal.com/En/Home.php - turn down your volume.

Dave

Interesting!

[dekindy]

Dave Thompson and Dave Kirk, is there any more information or a video explaining how the Vista pedal works or do you have to be knowledgeable about physiology and engineering to understand the benefits of this design?

I am interested because I know you are both experts but this is a totally new concept for me and the first that I have heard of it.

Also, why a frame and crankset specific to this pedal design and how important is that?

EDIT: I found this and it answered most of my questions.
http://fairwheelbikes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=3600

Still interested in comments from users. Dave Thompson, please do an in depth review. I need every edge that I can get.

[sg8357]

Vista looks like the return of Shimano DynaDrive.

From the Shelbroco wayback machine, when DA cranks were elegant....

http://sheldonbrown.com/shimano1982/pages/15.html

[David Kirk]

Dave Thompson and Dave Kirk, is there any more information or a video explaining how the Vista pedal works or do you have to be knowledgeable about physiology and engineering to understand the benefits of this design?

I am interested because I know you are both experts but this is a totally new concept for me and the first that I have heard of it.

Also, why a frame and crankset specific to this pedal design and how important is that?

Here's the Cliff's notes version -

With a standard pedal your foot is some distance above the centerline of the pedal spindle. This distance is in most cases about 12 mm. When you push down on the pedal you also need to apply a force so that your foot doesn't rotate forward or backward off the pedal. If you picture it being 12 inches instead of 12 mm it's much easier to understand. You need to apply a force so you are pushing straight down and not rotating fore/aft. It's not a huge force but it's there. This force is the main reason all pedals brag about being the lowest. The old original Look pedals were a whopping 25 mm above the axle centerline and they took a good bit of force to resist this fore/aft movement so the companies kept making the pedals lower.

The Vista pedal puts the bottom surface of the shoe at the axle centerline thereby almost completely eliminating the issue. I say almost completely because you still have the thickness of the shoe. This design allows the foot/ankle/calf to relax and just push down without needing to resist the fore/aft issue. They do this by eliminating the axle and while I was skeptical at first I've pounded on mine for years now and they feel like new.

You can feel the difference immediately. It feels like your foot is cradled and you can just push down and relax. It works very well.

The side benefit is that you will need to lower your saddle by about 12 mm to keep your saddle height correct. This is good because it lowers your center of mass AND if you need to raise your bars relative to your saddle it will do that. Or you can pull out some spacers from under your stem and maintain your current fit.

I will never go back to a traditional pedal again.

dave

[jpw]

Materials?
Weight?
Price?

Would it be best to design frames with a 12mm higher bb?

[David Kirk]

Materials?
Weight?
Price?

Would it be best to design frames with a 12mm higher bb?

I don't recall the price of the Vista. Nor do I recall the weight but I'd bet it's listed on their site. I do remember they weighted just a few grams less than the Times they replaced on my bike.

No you don't need a frame with a higher BB. It seems like you would but you don't because the pedal is so slim (remember no axle or outside bearing) that you don't compromise pedal to ground clearance. I measured the lean on my bike with the Times that came off the bike and then with the Vista and it was virtually the same - within a degree as I recall. On the Vista it is the shoe that hits the floor most of the time and not the pedal itself.

Dave

[oldguy00]

Speedplay zeros here.
Tried Time, Shimano, Keo's, etc. Always ended up back with Speedplay.

[dekindy]

Here's the Cliff's notes version -

With a standard pedal your foot is some distance above the centerline of the pedal spindle. This distance is in most cases about 12 mm. When you push down on the pedal you also need to apply a force so that your foot doesn't rotate forward or backward off the pedal. If you picture it being 12 inches instead of 12 mm it's much easier to understand. You need to apply a force so you are pushing straight down and not rotating fore/aft. It's not a huge force but it's there. This force is the main reason all pedals brag about being the lowest. The old original Look pedals were a whopping 25 mm above the axle centerline and they took a good bit of force to resist this fore/aft movement so the companies kept making the pedals lower.

The Vista pedal puts the bottom surface of the shoe at the axle centerline thereby almost completely eliminating the issue. I say almost completely because you still have the thickness of the shoe. This design allows the foot/ankle/calf to relax and just push down without needing to resist the fore/aft issue. They do this by eliminating the axle and while I was skeptical at first I've pounded on mine for years now and they feel like new.

You can feel the difference immediately. It feels like your foot is cradled and you can just push down and relax. It works very well.

The side benefit is that you will need to lower your saddle by about 12 mm to keep your saddle height correct. This is good because it lowers your center of mass AND if you need to raise your bars relative to your saddle it will do that. Or you can pull out some spacers from under your stem and maintain your current fit.

I will never go back to a traditional pedal again.

dave

Wow, this is a well kept secret. I do not recall ever seeing this pedal mentioned until Dave T's and your reply to this thread. Have you considered offering a frame specifically for the pedal and crank system like the frame advertised on Vista's website or is that design patented? I would think that they would want to sell pedals and their frame appears to be carbon, so you could do steel. But I am not absolutely certain of the frame material as Vista's website is short on details. Do you discuss this option with customers? Sounds like a great blog entry to me.

Anybody else on the forum using these pedals? I have not found anything so far using the search function. EDIT: I just found this but the link to Dave Kirk's review does not work. http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=38802&highlight=vista

[TAW]

Anybody else on the forum using these pedals? I have not found anything so far using the search function. EDIT: I just found this but the link to Dave Kirk's review does not work. http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=38802&highlight=vista

A possible drawback would be pedal clearance around corners. Or is there something in the design that would prevent this?

[David Kirk]

Wow, this is a well kept secret. I do not recall ever seeing this pedal mentioned until Dave T's and your reply to this thread. Have you considered offering a frame specifically for the pedal and crank system like the frame advertised on Vista's website or is that design patented? I would think that they would want to sell pedals and their frame appears to be carbon, so you could do steel. But I am not absolutely certain of the frame material as Vista's website is short on details. Do you discuss this option with customers? Sounds like a great blog entry to me.

Anybody else on the forum using these pedals? I have not found anything so far using the search function.

I have talked about them here and across the street for a few years now. At one time I was offered the distributorship of the pedals in North America and I turned it down as I thought it would be a large distraction from my core business.

I have not strongly considered building a frame designed around the Vista pedals and crank. The whole system may work fine but being a pragmatic stick in the mud type I don't want to offer a product that has to be used with a given crank/pedal combo - flexibility and choice are good IMO.

Frankly I don't push this idea on anyone. It's one of those things that just seems too quirky to be taken seriously and it just doesn't seem worth it. That said if I have someone who has knee or foot/ankle issues I do mention it as I think it could change the sport for them. Any time you have one of those "you can't understand it until you try it" kind of deals it comes off like Amway and I'm not interested in swimming up that stream.

I say you should try them if you like the idea and then let us know what you think.

dave

[David Kirk]

A possible drawback would be pedal clearance around corners. Or is there something in the design that would prevent this?

See my post #38.

dave

[dekindy]

See my post #38.

dave

Would it be correct that you are comparing the Vista to the next lowest stack height product (Time) on the market? Having said that another reviewer commented that on a turn where the Vista pedal scraped you should probably not be or want to pedal through the turn anyway.

Would the Vista pedal design offer the same advantage on climbing, either seated or standing?

[David Kirk]

Would it be correct that you are comparing the Vista to the next lowest stack height product (Time) on the market? Having said that another reviewer commented that on a turn where the Vista pedal scraped you should probably not be or want to pedal through the turn anyway.

Would the Vista pedal design offer the same advantage on climbing, either seated or standing?

I only measured it compared to the Time pedals I replaced and the Times were 12 mm higher. And like I said I compared actual lean angle between said Times and the Vista and they were within margin of error the same.

I like lowed BB's and long cranks and I pedal around everything and have never hit the pedal......... I have a scrape mark on my shoe but the pedal didn't hit.

I feel the biggest advantage when I going hard regardless of whether I'm seated or standing. Under light pedal pressure not much force is needed to resist the fore/aft deal but when you start pushing hard the difference grows and is immediately apparent.

dave



Dave

[Bob Ross]

all frogs, all bikes, all the time

This.

[PCR]

Was Look pedals now it's Crank Bros. Candy & Eggs. :banana:

[Rueda Tropical]

BeBop

[dimsy]

Not really. Quattro cleats are readily available from Crank Brothers. Standard Eggbeater cleats on a mtb shoe like a Sidi Dominator also work with Quattros.

i ride quattros, 1200 miles in and the cleats are still running strong.
they may not be the most aesthetically pleasing pedals, but they work very well.

[blschaefer1]

I'm a Time RXS guy. I like the release of these the best for me, and I've tried them all. I also like the fact the cleats have grippy 'cafe' pads so you don't slide around as much when walking.

[djg]

Look keo on the road
Time ATAC for cross

[jimp1234]

This Vista pedal system is really something new to me as well. Because I have arthritis in both knees, I'd be very interested in hearing your thinking on how these pedals would benefit riders with knee problems. TIA

That said if I have someone who has knee or foot/ankle issues I do mention it as I think it could change the sport for them.
dave

[David Kirk]

This Vista pedal system is really something new to me as well. Because I have arthritis in both knees, I'd be very interested in hearing your thinking on how these pedals would benefit riders with knee problems. TIA

I'm not a knee doctor but just play one online so take this with a large grain of salt......

Because the pedals don't require that you use your calf muscles to stabilize the ankle you can feel that the knee is more relaxed. I have a knee that gets sore at times and these pedals made that go away.

The other thing about them is just rigid and flex free the interface between the shoe and pedal is. When you are in you are in and there is no lateral play or rock like every other pedal I've used. They hold the shoe dead flat to the pedal whether you like it or not. This IMO further stabilizes the whole foot and lets everything relax and that would seem to be a good thing.

Now if you have a misalignment and really need a wedge under your cleat but have been getting by because your old pedals have lots of slop in them then the Vista could make it worse I suppose.

I hope that helps.

dave

[chuckroast]

SPD's on my Serottas. Vintage Looks on my vintage Moser (I'm a geek about that kind of thing).

[Johnny P]

Crank Brothers :)

[dana_e]

Time RSX

great pedal, float, nice cleat, cheap and light

[dimsy]

i ride quattros, 1200 miles in and the cleats are still running strong.
they may not be the most aesthetically pleasing pedals, but they work very well.

yesterday i picked up two pairs of speedplay zeros for both bikes. the quattros got pretty banged up in a crash and though they work just fine, i decided to pass them along to my brother as he's still riding a pair of loaners.

[steveymcdubs]

Keo's here.

[dave thompson]

This Vista pedal system is really something new to me as well. Because I have arthritis in both knees, I'd be very interested in hearing your thinking on how these pedals would benefit riders with knee problems. TIA
I just installed a pair of Vistas on my Taylor. I've not ridden them yet but should have them dialed in by this weekend.

[dekindy]

I just installed a pair of Vistas on my Taylor. I've not ridden them yet but should have them dialed in by this weekend.

I was intrigued and just won an E-bay auction from the Pro's Closet for a set that only has 500 miles on them. Price is $93 + shipping.

I would be interested in your process for adjusting your bike dimensions to accomodate the different stack height and position of the pedal. Taking some spacers out and lowering my handlebars would look better and give me better aerodynamics.

[jblande]

please report on your experiences with the vistas. i'm not ready to try out a new pedal system yet, but would like to know more...

[boneman]

Campag quill to Look's in 1985, to Time TBT in 1994, to Time Impact in 2002. No changes since. I use them on most of my bikes except the vintage ones where I use the TBT's. They work, stack height's okay, spares are available and cheap. I have a bunch of different SPD and SPD L's lying around as well and some of the newer Ultegra's. I haven't tried the latter but will...probably after the next generation comes out. Speedplays have always been interesting but I have to negotiate two sets of tiled steps, up and down, from my walk up apartment to the street so for now, it's cleats with pontoons on them for me.

[dekindy]

David Kirk - Regarding the Vistas.

Are the cleats difficult to walk in? Does walking damage them and they need protection and is it available?

[David Kirk]

David Kirk - Regarding the Vistas.

Are the cleats difficult to walk in? Does walking damage them and they need protection and is it available?

The cleats are pretty low profile and are no more difficult to walk in that most. The business part of the cleat is hardened steel and the interface is on the top side if the cleat so it's not the part of the cleat that gets walked on. I don't walk around a lot in them but I don't worry about it at all. I've been using the same cleats for a good 4-5 years now and they work like day one.

There is a red plastic part of the cleat thing that gives grip on the floor and it's fine - no better or worse than most.

I schmear a bit of bees wax on everything to keep thing smooth. You might see it in the photo.

dave

[dekindy]

Thank you, sir.


The cleats are pretty low profile and are no more difficult to walk in that most. The business part of the cleat is hardened steel and the interface is on the top side if the cleat so it's not the part of the cleat that gets walked on. I don't walk around a lot in them but I don't worry about it at all. I've been using the same cleats for a good 4-5 years now and they work like day one.

There is a red plastic part of the cleat thing that gives grip on the floor and it's fine - no better or worse than most.

I schmear a bit of bees wax on everything to keep thing smooth. You might see it in the photo.

dave