A tale of two drivers

[gone]

Today I was on a two lane road cresting a hill when I see a dual wheel pickup towing a trailer coming the other way. A glance back shows a car coming up behind me so I did what I always do: pulled over into the center of the lane, held my left arm out with my palm facing the driver indicating it wasn't safe to pass. Moron passed me anyway, close enough he brushed my outstretched hand. Fortunately, the truck coming the other way saw the idiot and pulled over as far to the right as he could. The guy who passed me (early 60's, I'd say) gave an "oops, sorry I almost killed you" wave and went on.

About ten miles later, same situation. I again pull into the center of the lane and hold my hand out indicating the car approaching me shouldn't pass. He slows down about 10 MPH, oncoming car passes me and he goes around giving me a wide birth. We exchange friendly waves. Total time out of his day: 3 seconds for having to slow briefly.

I've experimented with pulling all the way over to the left side of my line but it makes no difference. People that are going to pass do so anyway.

Some people are just idiots.

Sorry, had to vent.

[Steve in SLO]

I ride on lightly-traveled backroads and feel there must be a cosmic 'law of the threeway' (not the good kind) because if I only see two cars in a day, it will be with them traveling opposite directions while passing me.
You are a braver soul than I if you ride to the center of the lane and stay there with your hand out making a visual command to a driver. I avoid 'telling' the driver what to do, since a certain number will come back with a mental "You trying to tell me what to do, fa&&ot biker? I'll show you!" and then act on it to varying degrees.
I ride with a Viewpoint mirror inside my glasses and as soon as I see a car approaching from the rear, I come out 2-3 feet into the lane and wait until the car is about 100 feet back, then get to the right again. That usually makes the driver steer left a bit and gives me a bit of room. If I do that when there are cars approaching from both directions, the driver behind often slows. Rarely has anyone attempted a 'squeeze play'. The trick is to get back to the right after you've created a buffer zone.

[soulspinner]

Glad you are OK. On my ride today some woman did the race me to her driveway and turn right in front of me move. As I have had a few close calls lately I wasnt polite. :argue:

[mike p]

Not sure it's your job to be directing traffic. If I'm in town ( 30 mph ) I ride right in the center of my lane like any car as I can keep up with any car. On any road with a 55 mph or higher limit I ride right on the white line or shoulder as I can't keep up with traffic. It's a car owner responsibility to pass me safely. I'm not going to make anybody safer by riding out to the center of the road and directing traffic.

Mike

[Peter P.]

There are NO universally accepted hand signals for what you were doing-maybe another cyclist would have understood, but I wouldn't bet a nickel that a car driver would interpret it right.

The hand signal you described is practically the same as the common "stop" or "slowing" hand signal, but most of the time car drivers don't car what YOU'RE doing, just where they're GOING.

I don't mean to sound hostile, but if you were so concerned about being squeezed in that situation, you would have been better off blocking the entire lane AND using the hand signal, until the dualie passed, even if it pissed off the moron.

[Lifelover]

There are NO universally accepted hand signals for what you were doing-maybe another cyclist would have understood, but I wouldn't bet a nickel that a car driver would interpret it right.

The hand signal you described is practically the same as the common "stop" or "slowing" hand signal, but most of the time car drivers don't car what YOU'RE doing, just where they're GOING.

I don't mean to sound hostile, but if you were so concerned about being squeezed in that situation, you would have been better off blocking the entire lane AND using the hand signal, until the dualie passed, even if it pissed off the moron.

+1,000,000 times infinity!

I ride simply to keep my self safe. If you were at the creat of the hill clearly the car behind you can not see the oncoming traffic.

To the OP,
ATMO, your "taking" of the center of the lane almost cost someone thier life.

Worry about yourself and stay as far right as you safely can when being passed.

[paczki]

To the OP,
ATMO, your "taking" of the center of the lane almost cost someone thier life.



Trollish overstatement.

Take the lane, you are a vehicle. Don't direct. You don't want to take your hands off the handlebar with a truck coming at you!

An idiot like that is just the sort of driver who will cream you however far over you ride.

[rugbysecondrow]

Trollish overstatement.

Take the lane, you are a vehicle. Don't direct just because you are taking your hands off the handlebar with a truck coming at you!

An idiot like that is just the sort of driver who will cream you however far over you ride.


Why take the lane? Take it just because you think you have a right to it? Seems to me that when people act in a way outside of the norm, their actions are harder to interpret. Frankly, if I were driving up behind the rider and he moved to the middle of the lane for no reason and wanted direct the flow, I would probably be confused. If there is no reason to be in the lane (turning left, moving witht he flow of traffic etc) he should stay over by the white line or the shoulder where he belongs.

As for the trollish overstatement remark, you should be capable of discussing your own point without getting into insults, shouldn't you?

[paczki]

Why take the lane? Take it just because you think you have a right to it? Seems to me that when people act in a way outside of the norm, their actions are harder to interpret. Frankly, if I were driving up behind the rider and he moved to the middle of the lane for no reason and wanted direct the flow, I would probably be confused. If there is no reason to be in the lane (turning left, moving witht he flow of traffic etc) he should stay over by the white line or the shoulder where he belongs.

As for the trollish overstatement remark, you should be capable of discussing your own point without getting into insults, shouldn't you?

Uh, the part where Lifelover said the OP almost killed someone?
Why are you so contentious dude? I almost never fight on this board, but frankly it seems to be all you do.

As to why do this, so you don't get creamed by a driver trying to avoid a truck and going too far to the right.

[gearguywb]

I take the stance that each person is responsible for his/her own vehicle. I never motion to a vehicle to "come around" or anything else. I need to concentrate on what I am doing and allow them (hopefully) to make good decisions regarding their own actions.

[ckamp]

This is the situation where my reserved pocket of rocks comes in handy.

[paczki]

This is the situation where my reserved pocket of rocks comes in handy.

From happier days on the Serotta Forum:

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=32219&highlight=throwing+stars

[rugbysecondrow]

Uh, the part where Lifelover said the OP almost killed someone?
Why are you so contentious dude? I almost never fight on this board, but frankly it seems to be all you do.

As to why do this, so you don't get creamed by a driver trying to avoid a truck and going too far to the right.

And I quote, "Today I was on a two lane road cresting a hill when I see a dual wheel pickup towing a trailer coming the other way. A glance back shows a car coming up behind me so I did what I always do: pulled over into the center of the lane, held my left arm out with my palm facing the driver indicating it wasn't safe to pass. Moron passed me anyway, close enough he brushed my outstretched hand. Fortunately, the truck coming the other way saw the idiot and pulled over as far to the right as he could. The guy who passed me (early 60's, I'd say) gave an "oops, sorry I almost killed you" wave and went on."


I think if you read this, then apply what Lifelover said, he is correct. the OP pulled into the middle of the lane, forcing a driver to swerve far into the other lane then forcing the oncoming truck to way to the right. Yes, the OP, in my opinion, made the situation more dangerous by causing an unpredictable chain of events. I, and others I ride with, act in a predictable way that makes it easy for traffic to interpret what we are doing. I don't think the OP did this here. Nothing personal against him, this seems to be a learning experience for the readers here. Good discussion.

Contentious :no:

You should be able to discuss your ideas without insults...this is twice you have not been able to.

[paczki]

And I quote, "Today I was on a two lane road cresting a hill when I see a dual wheel pickup towing a trailer coming the other way. A glance back shows a car coming up behind me so I did what I always do: pulled over into the center of the lane, held my left arm out with my palm facing the driver indicating it wasn't safe to pass. Moron passed me anyway, close enough he brushed my outstretched hand. Fortunately, the truck coming the other way saw the idiot and pulled over as far to the right as he could. The guy who passed me (early 60's, I'd say) gave an "oops, sorry I almost killed you" wave and went on."


I think if you read this, then apply what Lifelover said, he is correct. the OP pulled into the middle of the lane, forcing a driver to swerve far into the other lane then forcing the oncoming truck to way to the right. Yes, the OP, in my opinion, made the situation more dangerous by causing an unpredictable chain of events. I, and others I ride with, act in a predictable way that makes it easy for traffic to interpret what we are doing. I don't think the OP did this here. Nothing personal against him, this seems to be a learning experience for the readers here. Good discussion.

Contentious :no:

You should be able to discuss your ideas without insults...this is twice you have not been able to.

You're right. It's just my general disappointment on how lame this board has become. It used to be a lot of fun. Manet, SteveP, and some other really funny posters. Then all that political crap and now...
I really have to stop coming here and join the Velocipede Salon.

Ban me boys!

P.S. Ben Serotta rules. No offense intended.

[gone]

I hear what all of you are saying (some, even nicely and constructively) about staying to the right, not directing traffic, me making the situation more dangerous, etc. However.

The roads in question are narrow two lane country roads, there are no shoulders, "white lines", etc.

I have had it happen far too often where the driver behind me "gives me room" and swings over into the other lane even though he's passing me in a blind spot and, when he/she sees the oncoming vehicle swerves sharply back into me. Most, if not all, drivers in that situation aren't exactly Michael Schumacher. They're panicked and don't even care whether I'm there. Result: a very near miss (so far) or me in the ditch.

Sure, if there's a shoulder and room for two vehicles I'll stay to the right. So, universal hand signal or not (I'm sorry, but I think most people would understand it - think of the hand signal a police officer uses when stopping traffic - arm up, palm out, facing the oncoming traffic) - I'll continue to pull over to the center of the lane and do my best to indicate it's not safe to pass me.

[fiamme red]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicular_cycling#Lane_control

[rugbysecondrow]

I hear what all of you are saying (some, even nicely and constructively) about staying to the right, not directing traffic, me making the situation more dangerous, etc. However.

The roads in question are narrow two lane country roads, there are no shoulders, "white lines", etc.

I have had it happen far too often where the driver behind me "gives me room" and swings over into the other lane even though he's passing me in a blind spot and, when he/she sees the oncoming vehicle swerves sharply back into me. Most, if not all, drivers in that situation aren't exactly Michael Schumacher. They're panicked and don't even care whether I'm there. Result: a very near miss (so far) or me in the ditch.

Sure, if there's a shoulder and room for two vehicles I'll stay to the right. So, universal hand signal or not (I'm sorry, but I think most people would understand it - think of the hand signal a police officer uses when stopping traffic - arm up, palm out, facing the oncoming traffic) - I'll continue to pull over to the center of the lane and do my best to indicate it's not safe to pass me.

This makes sense, thanks for explaining. Like I said before, I think this is a learning opportunity.

[johnnymossville]

I do something similar in this particular instance regularly.

There is this one spot on a ride I do where there is always heavy traffic. I have to make a left turn with both oncoming cars and cars behind me.

I have found it best to use hand signals, then go to the center of my lane, slowing down the cars behind me until an open spot in oncoming cars lets me turn.

If I pull off to the right side of the road to wait for traffic to open up I'd wait all day. I'll admit that might be safer though.

[goonster]

the OP pulled into the middle of the lane, forcing a driver to swerve far into the other lane then forcing the oncoming truck to way to the right.
The OP didn't force the driver to do anything. He (correctly) discouraged the driver from passing, but the driver executed an unsafe pass anyway.

It is important for cyclists to discourage such maneuevers because there is a very high risk that when the passing motorist suddenly sees the oncoming vehicle she swerves back to the right, creaming the cyclist.

More often than not, motorists passing me on narrow backroads swerve way too far to the left even with me hugging the gutter all the way on the right. Passing against opposing traffic is one of those driving skills most people just suck at, atmo.

[Ozz]

Drivers are funny....there is a stretch on my usual route, about 1/2 mile long where more often than not a driver will buzz unnecessarily close when they pass me. For the life of me I do not understand why??

It is a divided road with two lanes heading in my direction. Speed limit is 35 mph, and the road is flat. I will take the right lane, and be travelling about 20+ mph. Inevitably, a car will run right up behind me, then get about halfway into the left lane to pass. I ride early in the AM, so traffic is light and the left lane is free of any traffic.

What is so frickin' hard about just using the empty lane?

Nearest I can figure is they want to make a point about me being on "their" road.... :crap:

Anyone else in the Bellevue / Seattle area have this problem on this stretch of road? It is heading north on Juanita Drive heading towards Bothell Way / Burke-Gilman trail:

http://maps.google.com/?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=47.753117,-122.246289&spn=0.012465,0.017037&t=h&z=15


:beer:

[rugbysecondrow]

The OP didn't force the driver to do anything. He (correctly) discouraged the driver from passing, but the driver executed an unsafe pass anyway.

It is important for cyclists to discourage such maneuevers because there is a very high risk that when the passing motorist suddenly sees the oncoming vehicle she swerves back to the right, creaming the cyclist.

More often than not, motorists passing me on narrow backroads swerve way too far to the left even with me hugging the gutter all the way on the right. Passing against opposing traffic is one of those driving skills most people just suck at, atmo.

See my above comment. I agree in this instance since there was no shoulder or adequate passing space. The clarification from the OP changes the situation IMO.

[Lifelover]

....there is a very high risk that when the passing motorist suddenly sees the oncoming vehicle she swerves back to the right.....


This seems to be the major concern. I don't understand how being in the middle of the lane makes you safer when the cars serves back to the right.

Often ,even the common "left turn", "right turn" and "stop" hand signal are no longer taught in Dirver's ed. It is very difficult to communicate you own intention to drivers but it is damn near impossible to communicate "instructions" to a car approachin you from behind at 45+ MPH that is on the upside of a hill and can not see what is coming the other way.

Was the driver an idiot for blindly crossing into the left lane? Yes.

However, the OP did not help or make himself any safer. ATMO, he made the whole ugly mess worse.

[Lifelover]

You're right. It's just my general disappointment on how lame this board has become. It used to be a lot of fun. Manet, SteveP, and some other really funny posters. Then all that political crap and now...
I really have to stop coming here and join the Velocipede Salon.

Ban me boys!

P.S. Ben Serotta rules. No offense intended.


Promises, Promises! Just like most those that "left", you will continue to come back.

Of course if I'm wrong you will never read this :beer:

[Kevan]

I'm with claiming one's turf. NY roads are in near ruin as a result of some nasty late-winter storms and no money in the coffers to do the necessary repairs. As we all experience, the shoulder typically takes the brunt, so typically I will motion that I'm moving out into the road and then point for the driver's edification the obstacle I'm avoiding. I've never had a problem with doing this, but then I always make sure that my jumping out is not greated by a speeding bumper.

[goonster]

I don't understand how being in the middle of the lane makes you safer when the cars serves back to the right.
It makes you safer if your lane position makes it less likely for the driver to begin an unsafe pass in the first place.

[Lifelover]

Deleted

[kestrel]

I think the hand signal the OP used is universal for stop or stopping.
A palm facing back toward the approaching driver should only be taken one way.... DON'T come around me!

Another note: I've talked with many patrolmen who have seen bicycle and pedestrian accidents. They all say the same thing, stay as far to the right as you can, a glancing blow is often less severe than a rear end collision that throws you on top, in front, or under the vehicle approaching at speed from the rear.