Joe Williams -- bicycle frames / forks

[gt6267a]

i am considering purchasing a frame / fork made by joe williams. the add says that he used to work for serotta as a master builder. anyone with some insight into the builder and/or quality of the bicycles?

thanks and regards,
Keith

[OldDog]

I've seen three "williams" branded bikes, I guess Joe's, as at the time he was in NY state building. These bikes are about 10 years old. All fillet brazed nicely. All too big for me to take a spin on, but the owners like them and still ride them, my buddy just now upgrading his old Shimano "600 Ultegra" to current Ultegra.

FWIW, my understanding is, and I may be off base here but not too far as I trust the dealer who moved these three frames, is Williams has not been building much over the years.

Post a pic when you get it.

[Ray]

I've seen three "williams" branded bikes, I guess Joe's, as at the time he was in NY state building. These bikes are about 10 years old. All fillet brazed nicely. All too big for me to take a spin on, but the owners like them and still ride them, my buddy just now upgrading his old Shimano "600 Ultegra" to current Ultegra.

FWIW, my understanding is, and I may be off base here but not too far as I trust the dealer who moved these three frames, is Williams has not been building much over the years.

Post a pic when you get it.
He's still building. He works out of Shirks Bike Shop in the middle of nowhere, Lancaster County, PA. He has a workshop in back of the shop and helps out in the shop also. I've seen some of his work. It's nice stuff and he's not afraid to do some wierd stuff ( a frog's head at the Chainstay bridge with the stays as frog legs - actually worked pretty well). The few people I know with his frames are very happy with them. He can be a bit abrupt and not everyone likes doing business with him. No idea how good he is as a fitter. I've only seen lugged frames, but I think he'll do fillet brazed as well.

-Ray

[BURCH]

A good friend of mine, Marty, just had him make a frame for him. J.W. used to work for Serotta according to my Marty. Marty said that he got a descent fitting from him and seems to like the bike so far. I thought that he mentioned that he worked out of a barn or something, but I could be wrong.
I have asked my Marty to email me a pic of his bike. I will post it here when he does.

Marty lives in Lancaster and races for Green Mountain (I think).

[bostondrunk]

Does he offer Jim Lahey lugs?

[OldDog]

Check out frame builder Rich Adams at bicycleframes.com . You may find his work attractive and pricing competitive. Located in Wilkes-Barre, PA, about two hours north of Lancaster.

[Ray]

A good friend of mine, Marty, just had him make a frame for him. J.W. used to work for Serotta according to my Marty. Marty said that he got a descent fitting from him and seems to like the bike so far. I thought that he mentioned that he worked out of a barn or something, but I could be wrong.
I have asked my Marty to email me a pic of his bike. I will post it here when he does.

Marty lives in Lancaster and races for Green Mountain (I think).
It's not a barn, but close. Shirks bike shop is in a funky corrogated metal building in the middle of Mennonite and Amish farm country. Not near anything - the closest town of any consequence is Honey Brook, PA, and that's not much consequence. Located on a large farm parcel from what I can tell. Joe has a smaller building out back - not sure if it's also metal or not, but it's way too small to be a barn.

Shirks is about the best LBS I've ever run into. Better than Nashbar prices and inventory, phenominal wheelbuilder - all of the local racers had him build their wheels until boutique wheels took over. Luke has forgotten more about bikes than most of us will ever know. He has essentially no overhead - the place is largely staffed by his family and their dog. He does everything from fairly high-end performance bikes (road and mountain) to the lowest cost Amish transportation bikes. A bunch of used gear upstairs too and you can demo just about anything for about as long as you want, and on the honor system. Really cool place. It's about a 35-40 minute drive for me, so I don't get out there often anymore, but it's always worth the trip when I do.

So, no, not a barn :)

-Ray

[BURCH]

ok, here is a pic of the bike I mentioned:

http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?c=12c66h1n.8qqgdm6b&x=0&y=ko8a0n

That is a link to an ofoto album with on pic. You won't have to login to see it. the pic was too large to upload to this forum...so this was next idea that I had.

[gt6267a]

i didn't mention explicitly (other than saying "the add"), but the pruchase is of a used bike. any idea what a new lugged steel joe williams frame costs? just looking to get myself in the ball park. from the feedback here, it looks like if the price is right, i might be able to acquire a nice project bike.

[Needs Help]

the pic was too large to upload to this forum...so this was next idea that I had.
All the images in the image gallery are about twice as big as that image, so you must have done something wrong if you weren't able to upload it to the image gallery.

[Ray]

i didn't mention explicitly (other than saying "the add"), but the pruchase is of a used bike. any idea what a new lugged steel joe williams frame costs? just looking to get myself in the ball park. from the feedback here, it looks like if the price is right, i might be able to acquire a nice project bike.
The most recent I'd heard was in the $1200 to 1300 range, but I'm not sure how up to date that is or what sorts of options are available. I'll say that I've never seen a modern looking Williams like the one in the photo - they've all been fairly traditional frames. I did hear that he'd use the carbon seatstay setup if you wanted it, so I don't doubt that he's doing much more of this kind of latest and greatest stuff now. No idea where any of this falls pricewise though.

BTW, the number at Shirks is 717-445-5731 if you want to get in touch with Joe directly.

-Ray

[bikedadjc]

Joe Williams worked for Serotta in the early 90's when Serotta taught them to just look at you and size you up, and this person should be this seat tube angle, etc...... Serotta's current methods do not employ this type of fitting no more! I would think twice before i would consider buying a Joe Williams built frameset, until he gets his butt back up to Serotta to learn the current and most prominent method of fitting a person to a bike. Which has come a long way from the old method of fitting.

[gt6267a]

ray,

thanks for the info. the frame/fork in question is of the standard / classic variety. now, it's time to figure out a good price ...

bikedadjc,

as the purchase is of a used bicycle, the fitting capabilities of mr. williams are no longer a consideration. i know the size i want and frame/fork is there.

therefore, my main concern is in his ability to craft a quality bicycle. the feedback from this forum suggests that he does.

regards,
gt

[Big Dan]

Joe Williams worked for Serotta in the early 90's when Serotta taught them to just look at you and size you up, and this person should be this seat tube angle, etc...... Serotta's current methods do not employ this type of fitting no more! I would think twice before i would consider buying a Joe Williams built frameset, until he gets his butt back up to Serotta to learn the current and most prominent method of fitting a person to a bike. Which has come a long way from the old method of fitting.

I guess there's only one way to fit a person on a bike, what a statement!!! You too Sir are a victim of marketing....... amazing how people just throw out statements like that..... :confused:

[bikedadjc]

Victim of Marketing, my *ss!! I know what fitting systems have been used, and my experiences have shown me that the older methods of fitting are not always right for every individual. SEROTTA SETS HIGH STANDARDS IN THE INDUSTRY FOR FITTING A PERSON TO A BICYCLE. If they do such a thing, and are looked upon so highly, and are used by the pros also. I would not consider myself a "victim of Marketing"!! I would consider myself fit to my bicycle perfectly by an up-to-date fitting method as perfected by Serotta that has changed thru-out the years!! :banana:

[Big Dan]

Victim of Marketing, my *ss!! I know what fitting systems have been used, and my experiences have shown me that the older methods of fitting are not always right for every individual. SEROTTA SETS HIGH STANDARDS IN THE INDUSTRY FOR FITTING A PERSON TO A BICYCLE. If they do such a thing, and are looked upon so highly, and are used by the pros also. I would not consider myself a "victim of Marketing"!! I would consider myself fit to my bicycle perfectly by an up-to-date fitting method as perfected by Serotta that has changed thru-out the years!! :banana:

You said it all......you are so full of yourself that it's difficult to take you seriously......live$trong....
and I hope you are happy with your perfect fit... :confused:


What a crock of bull................. :p

[Michael Testa]

I didn't realize Mr. Cinelli had a Serotta size cycle in his shop.

[GoJavs]

I think some of the framebuilders on this list would not agree with you, bikedadaj! Do a search for e-ritchie's comments on fit, for example. No evolution there. Just a handful of measures and you are good to go.

Now, consumer/rider preferences do change. It's called fashion or marketing! For example, most people used to ride 38 cm or 40 cm handlebars. Yikes! My shoulders hurt just thinking about it... :confused: