Leica M9 and riding

[legacysti888]

I've been carrying with me for the past years, my trusty old 40D, then 5D mkII, and now 7D on my waist pouch while I ride to destinations I plan to shoot for the day but the body and lens without the battery grip is bulky to say the least.

I've been contemplating on purchasing the Leica M9 as my go to camera for my rides and travel but before I pull the trigger I would like to know your opinions.

I love the form factor but have never owned a Leica M series.

Any insight and personal experiences with this particular model is most appreciated. TIA.

[Benjamin]

i'd love to own the M9 and 50/1.4 Summilux, but 12k is a little out of my camera price range! :butt:

anyway, the images i've seen from that camera are amazing, pure leica from the ground up. you can't go wrong.

and uh... be careful riding around with that thing.

[McQueen]

I've used a Leica point and shoot for some time, and have considered the trade up to a larger platform, and the M series is clearly in a class of it's own.

The cost has always seemed very prohibitive though, as not just the body setting you back 7k, but then the M-series lenses are not cheap, and I don't know enough to know if any of your lenses can be adaptable, or if you are back to square one with lenses.

Secondly, I think you would definitely want to try one out, as the rangefinder is likely to be quite a functional departure from any kind of autofocus lens you might be using currently. Even if you are dialing in focus manually, taking shots with a rangefinder is a slightly different animal. (and there is no autofocus)

I guess you are used to traveling and taking pictures with a large DSLR, but in my travels, I've wanted to be more inconspicuous with my camera use, and opted to make the trade-offs with a small camera (D-Lux2 currently) with raw capability.

The one I've been interested in lately has been the new X-1. Certainly not the verstility of having interchangable lenses, but bridges the size from the M series to the small compacts, with some pretty good features. I'm still very far away from making any changes - my D-lux is still, after many years of use, delivering pretty good photos, without bulking up the luggage.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/01/05/the-leica-x1-digital-camera-review/#more-2288

[mpetry]

I think I'd be afraid to carry an M9 while riding - just a little too big and expensive. How bout a DLux 4? I've got one and it's a great camera - 10 mpix and all the goodies. There's a lower priced Lumix model that's almost exactly the same.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge island, WA

[jpw]

The glass and the sensor are what count. Leitz is tops, the sensor...CMOS?

[legacysti888]

Great inputs and thoughts, folks. Thanks and please do keep them coming.

Is the M9 available now? It's always back ordered at BH Photo. The 50 f1.4 or the 24 f1.4 will be lens of choice for me.

I have 2 Panasonic LX3s I carry around all the time. One in my car and the other always in my messenger bag. It's an awesome small compact camera.

I'd like better 'pics' than what I can get out of my LX3 and it's been my experience that most of the small digitals are noisy for dusk, dawn and available light photography..and detail and color is lacking, thus my compromise is to go slightly larger to the M class... but not a DSLR anymore.

A close friend asked my to try the Red. Hahahaha. No.

The waist pouch is quite well padded since I recently took a fall in the rain on my bike and the gear was undamaged. When the pouch 'sits' in the back of my waist, I don't feel the weight of the gear so much.

Riding to places to shoot is very calming to me. I ride my old Langster for that.

[dannyg1]

While it'll never meet a Leica M9 in almost any area of achievement, the Olympus Pen series (probably the E-P2 for you) is a very interesting alternative.

[xjoex]

I owned a Leica M6 and a bunch of lenses. I had been introduced to Leica through my Digilux 1 (really a panasonic, but wonderful camera).

I was a bit disappointed with the M6. I had heard about how tough they are, and easy to focus in low light. I think the myth is more than reality, the rangefinder is easy to go out of adjustment, and focussing with a nice SLR with a fast lens is just as easy. I sold it an bought a small DSLR, which I take hiking and on vaca,when I take it riding I never take it out of the bag.

With all that said, the pictures were great.
http://boulder.inotion.com/joe/picoftheday/places/chasm2.jpg

Anyhow, to your question, I think it would be too big to ride with on the bike. I ride with a small digicam.I just purchased a Canon S90 and hope to shoot some pics with it shortly.

Either way show us some pics from your next ride!

-Joe

[Kevan]

just like the next guy, but why not consider a G11 or maybe one of the new four-thirds, like the Pani GF-1 maybe, taking into account the relative risky nature it is...bringing a camera on board a bike. Regardless, I'm with you...I love strapping my camera (G9) on the bars and head on out to find the sights.

[Benjamin]

ah whatever... it's expensive, but it's just stuff. the OP enjoys shooting with nice cameras, the pics come out better, and he likes riding around to shoot.

i say get the M9, get a good case for it, get insurance to cover it, just in case.

i'd ride around with my 5D Mk ii and 85 1.2, but sometimes it feels like carrying around a boat anchor.

[bicycletricycle]

i ride with my hasselblad SWC/M with dedicated 38mm biogon lens. its smaller than my NIKON DSLR and makes super amazing photos. I cant go back to small film after this. Its still smaller than a DSLR with a bigger zoom lens, and lighter (maybe)
http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/bicycletricycle/B7995_010.jpg

[Ray]

Hey, if you can afford an M9, you can probably afford to kill it in a crash too. If you can handle that kind of risk, by all means, go for it. I just bought the newest Olympus pen camera (E-PL1) and I MAY take it out in a handlebar bag someday and it costs less than 10% of the cost of the Leica. I usually just take a Panasonic super-zoom point and shoot out riding. Tiny, as good a picture as you'll ever get out of a point and shoot (except for the LX-3, which can shoot RAW). The Oly Pen is my walking around camera, bigger than a P&S and waaaaay better IQ, waaaaay smaller than a DSLR but only slightly less image quality and mostly just at the extremes at that. I haven't owned an SLR in many years and probably won't again because I'd never have it with me and the picture you don't take because you don't have the camera with you will never be a great image.

The Pen is a great compromise for me, but we all have different tipping/balance points. If a Leica M9 on a bike is yours, knock yourself out.

-Ray

[dimsy]

I owned a Leica M6 and a bunch of lenses. I had been introduced to Leica through my Digilux 1 (really a panasonic, but wonderful camera).

I was a bit disappointed with the M6. I had heard about how tough they are, and easy to focus in low light. I think the myth is more than reality, the rangefinder is easy to go out of adjustment, and focussing with a nice SLR with a fast lens is just as easy. I sold it an bought a small DSLR, which I take hiking and on vaca,when I take it riding I never take it out of the bag.

With all that said, the pictures were great.
http://boulder.inotion.com/joe/picoftheday/places/chasm2.jpg

Anyhow, to your question, I think it would be too big to ride with on the bike. I ride with a small digicam.I just purchased a Canon S90 and hope to shoot some pics with it shortly.

Either way show us some pics from your next ride!

-Joe

I purchased the same camera after mine was destroyed in a tumble i took the other day. Still recovering therefore havent brought it out yet but it's REALLY a neat little toy.

[ewwhite]

Consider this nifty gadget for carrying a DSLR on the bike.

http://www.diagnl.jp/

[dannyg1]

Recommended the Olympus Pen BTW, because you can mount and use Leica M series lenses on it, as well as it's smaller than the M9. Only thing it lacks is a proper viewfinder, which is a huge omission IMO. Nonetheless, these are pretty amazing cameras that are worth looking into, especially considering the intended application.

[MarinRider]

I don't think the Leica M9 is widely available yet. There are selected few places that might have it but in very limited quantities. Try Photo Village in NYC, they have amazing collection of Ms and accessories.

I have been a Leica M users for years and have a M6 and a M8. I have a 50/1.4 as well as 28/1.4 and 35/1.4. Their quality is second to none and great for available light phtography. Of course can can also get a 50/0.95 which gives a better light capturing capability than the human eye. I'd think twice about use them for cycle touring as they tend to be bigger and softer in bright sun light

You should look at Reid Reviews to see a indepth review of Leica lenses.

To properly carry a Leica M camera on your bike you will best need a front bag that will allow you to stop, quickly take the camera out, shoot, load it into the bag, and off you go. It's a process that Glen Erickson taught me years ago.

I found the best compromise on the bike is a Leica X1. It has a built in 24/2.8 and has auto focus. Not so much work when you're wasted from a full day of riding.

Great inputs and thoughts, folks. Thanks and please do keep them coming.

Is the M9 available now? It's always back ordered at BH Photo. The 50 f1.4 or the 24 f1.4 will be lens of choice for me.

I have 2 Panasonic LX3s I carry around all the time. One in my car and the other always in my messenger bag. It's an awesome small compact camera.

I'd like better 'pics' than what I can get out of my LX3 and it's been my experience that most of the small digitals are noisy for dusk, dawn and available light photography..and detail and color is lacking, thus my compromise is to go slightly larger to the M class... but not a DSLR anymore.

A close friend asked my to try the Red. Hahahaha. No.

The waist pouch is quite well padded since I recently took a fall in the rain on my bike and the gear was undamaged. When the pouch 'sits' in the back of my waist, I don't feel the weight of the gear so much.

Riding to places to shoot is very calming to me. I ride my old Langster for that.

[Ray]

Recommended the Olympus Pen BTW, because you can mount and use Leica M series lenses on it, as well as it's smaller than the M9. Only thing it lacks is a proper viewfinder, which is a huge omission IMO. Nonetheless, these are pretty amazing cameras that are worth looking into, especially considering the intended application.
Actually, the E-P2 and E-PL1 have (included and optional, respectively) a damn fine electronic viewfinder that works incredibly well down to fairly low light conditions. The E-P1 doesn't, but it has an optical viewfinder that works very well with the 17mm pancake lens - that camera's being discontinued anyway. The Panasonic version, the GF-1, also has an electronic viewfinder, but its widely acknowledged to suck. Its rumored to be on the way out to be replaced by an electronic VF that will compete with the Olympus. I'm ok without the viewfinder except in the brightest of sun, so I leave it off almost all the time, but I can pop it on when I need it.

This camera could fit in a fairly small handlebar bag with the pancake lens, the 14-42 kit lens (28-84 equivalent), or with the 9-18 wide angle (18-36 equivalent) that's supposed to be available any week now. And it doesn't weigh enough to worry about with any of those lenses. Its only when you get into the longer telephoto focal lengths that they start to get difficult to handle on a bike ride. And even still, a lot less to deal with than just about any DSLR.

A great camera option for folks who want better than a P&S but don't want to be bogged down with a DSLR.

-Ray

[Rueda Tropical]

I suggest you try a Leica rangefinder first. Rent one for a while if possible before you pull the trigger. I love RF focusing but many don't which is why they are no longer mainstream cameras.

[pbjbike]

i ride with my hasselblad SWC/M with dedicated 38mm biogon lens. its smaller than my NIKON DSLR and makes super amazing photos. I cant go back to small film after this. Its still smaller than a DSLR with a bigger zoom lens, and lighter (maybe)
http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/bicycletricycle/B7995_010.jpg

Wow! An amazing camera that certainly matches your bike. :beer:

[geowar]

Check out the leica forum at photo.net and ask your question there.

[pbjbike]

Check out the Leica User's Group, LUG. I'm sure there are a myriad of posts on the M9 there. Photo Village in NY seems to have the fast track on new Leica products. Leica, Campagnolo, Campagnolo, Leica...It doesn't get any better.

However, right up there with the Leitz 28 ASPH, is the Ricoh GR1 point and shoot film camera, which is smaller than an iphone. 28mm f/2.8 fixed lens. You'd have to scan negs or chromes, but really outstanding quality. No longer produced: You can find Minty ones on the auction site.

[legacysti888]

The PEN cameras are very interesting indeed. I will have to take a look at it soon. The Ricoh GR1 is a great camera I've always wanted to try as well.. may have to borrow my dad's for a coupe weeks...

Traveling and riding with DSLRs is a PIA. I do most of my commercial photography in studios and on location and have help.. but this is strictly for personal use and I love shooting in available light.

I've never owned a Leica M series but I've used them briefly and there's certainly some mental adjustment necessary especially when you've come from SLR and even medium format.

Someone mentioned in an earlier post to place the camera in the front of my bike in a bag. That scares the hell outa me. That's why I got meself a waist pouch...

Thanks for all the comments and referrals to other sites. I will make the leap when the M9 becomes more readily available... It's still hard to find.

I had no idea there are so many photo buffs here in this forum and avid riders at that too! :beer:

[rounder]

I don't know much about cameras. But i was riding along the Susquehenna the other day and pulled over to watch them fishing for shad (they were running). I heard a big splash not far in front of me and saw a big bird fly off with a fish in its talons. I thought it was an eagle. A few minutes later, a photographer and his wife walked up and said, we got it it was an osprey. His camera had lighting on both sides. His wife said that they were on the Gunpowder River the other day and saw five eagles. I love riding my bike, but it is really cool watching the scenery and meeting folks along the way.

[tylercheung]

you can pry my film M6's off my cold dead fingers. The ones I had came either freshly serviced or never used so the focusing and meter is dead on. Because the focusing patch presents the focusing distance as the alignment of 2 images, I find it easier than my SLR which you have to subjectively gauge the sharpness in the viewfinder or the ground glass. The lenses I have are fantastic and there are a wide range from Cosina, Zeiss (made by cosina) and Leica available.

It is extremely good for unobtrusively getting shots of the people and goings on around you, documentary/photojournalism type shots. It is not good for things like sports or telephoto or anything that needs a flash. The M9 has automated exposure I think, but even so, it's best used manual focus/manual exposure. It's just the way it is.

That being said, M9's are supposedly not really made quite the same as the Leica's of yore, and the price is outrageous - only worth getting if you are a pro and making money off of it. (this is part of my longstanding beef with Leica, a company whose administration has had its head up its ass for the past 20 years...why they couldn't make an digital M at a price point for the rest of us is beyond me).

Using Leica M glass on an EP-2 is IMHO a bad idea due to the crop factor. 35mm = FOV of 70mm. 50mm = FOV of 100mm. however, perspective and DOF will be screwy Plus the new 4/3 lenses available for it are much cheaper and do a pretty good job.

Anyway, I cast my vote for the EP-1 or the Sigma DP-2. Hats off to the Hassy schlepper ;)

[DfCas]

If you have not used a rangefinder extensively, I suggest you try one for a while before you buy. The neutral focal length lenses( effectively 35- 70mm or so) are pretty easy to use. When the effective length gets shorter or longer, the perspective is not shown in the viewfinder.

I cut my teeth on SLR's, and while my Leica M3 laid down beautiful images, I never got very good at using it. It was more like " I wonder what this will look like" when I used it. No depth of field is indicated, and you can't tell if the subject is isolated from the background or not.

The camera is certainly small enough to carry around, but I would want at least 3 lenses with me. A zoom would be heresy on a Leica.:)

[palincss]

The camera is certainly small enough to carry around, but I would want at least 3 lenses with me. A zoom would be heresy on a Leica.:)

A zoom wouldn't work very well with a rangefinder. Add three lenses to an M9 body and you hardy have a light or compact package -- and the consequences of a crash would be horrific to contemplate, I think.

[victoryfactory]

My two favorite pastimes are cycling and photography.
I was a long time Leica M user. (now Canon 5D)

For the best enjoyment of either, don't try to do both at the
same time.

Carry a small digital camera with zoom and AF (if you must) on the bike.

Bring the big photo rig with tripod on hikes and car stuff. I have rarely if ever
gotten any real "art" on a bike ride photo. Carrying all that stuff just distracts
from the riding experience for me. And Leicas don't focus themselves!

VF

[jpw]

I've been carrying with me for the past years, my trusty old 40D, then 5D mkII, and now 7D on my waist pouch while I ride to destinations I plan to shoot for the day but the body and lens without the battery grip is bulky to say the least.

I've been contemplating on purchasing the Leica M9 as my go to camera for my rides and travel but before I pull the trigger I would like to know your opinions.

I love the form factor but have never owned a Leica M series.

Any insight and personal experiences with this particular model is most appreciated. TIA.

Did you ever manage to finesse the build sheet of your HCX from Serotta?

[Drjimbo]

I own 10 Leicas (M1 to MP) and about 20 lenses - all superb and reasonable to put in a front bike bag. Although I can't speak about digital as I don't own any digital equipment.

Regarding the Hassy SWC/M - breathtaking camera, but you will also need to carry a lightmeter. For wideangle photography there is nothing better - I use mine whenever I don't have a Leice in my hands. For color use Fuji Velvia 50, for b+w use one of the slower European films (e.g., Rollie) which are based on classic American formulations.

Happy riding and picture taking!!!

[dannyg1]

Both Canon and Nikon, with their full frame sensors, are in a position to introduce a world killing rangefinder in the mold of the Leica CL. Such a camera would be perfect for carrying all the time.

I personally find manual focus more useful than auto and The ability to do full manual exposure (Preferably with Pentax's brilliant hypermanual, spot metering button) on a tiny, full frame RF, with a great viewfinder and fast interchangeable lenses BTW, would sell me instantly.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . to carry a Leica and try to shoot while on the move. Trashing the camera eventually is just a fact of life if you carry one on the bike. I've gotten some really good stuff while shooting on the move, but it takes a lot of forethought, lots of shooting blindly backward over the shoulder, and and a large enough MP count to be able to crop after the fact while keeping resolution. The screens rather than traditional viewfinders on most compact digitals now is really a big help in framing while still being able to keep an eye on the road ahead. I would never try to use a traditional rangefinder--just too dangerous.

BBD

[legacysti888]

I don't think the Leica M9 is widely available yet. There are selected few places that might have it but in very limited quantities. Try Photo Village in NYC, they have amazing collection of Ms and accessories.

I have been a Leica M users for years and have a M6 and a M8. I have a 50/1.4 as well as 28/1.4 and 35/1.4. Their quality is second to none and great for available light phtography. Of course can can also get a 50/0.95 which gives a better light capturing capability than the human eye. I'd think twice about use them for cycle touring as they tend to be bigger and softer in bright sun light

You should look at Reid Reviews to see a indepth review of Leica lenses.

To properly carry a Leica M camera on your bike you will best need a front bag that will allow you to stop, quickly take the camera out, shoot, load it into the bag, and off you go. It's a process that Glen Erickson taught me years ago.

I found the best compromise on the bike is a Leica X1. It has a built in 24/2.8 and has auto focus. Not so much work when you're wasted from a full day of riding.

Thanks for the info! Will give Photo Village a call. I don't think I will ever take with me $10,000 Noctilux 0.95 on a ride or any ride.

I do not ride and shoot at the same time and when I do, it's always with my LX3.

Does anyone know of a bicycle front bag designed for camera gear with great protection and weather?

[legacysti888]

A zoom wouldn't work very well with a rangefinder. Add three lenses to an M9 body and you hardy have a light or compact package -- and the consequences of a crash would be horrific to contemplate, I think.

My challenge is to only carry one lens (if prime) per ride and I will have to make do. :rolleyes:

[legacysti888]

i ride with my hasselblad SWC/M with dedicated 38mm biogon lens. its smaller than my NIKON DSLR and makes super amazing photos. I cant go back to small film after this. Its still smaller than a DSLR with a bigger zoom lens, and lighter (maybe)
http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae236/bicycletricycle/B7995_010.jpg

I own a Hassel but I will never take that out for a ride.

I've gone neck deep into the digital world and find it hard to go back to film.

Photoshop has been my lab for many years...

[Pete Serotta]

This is a very educational and informative discussion with lots of subject matter experts sharing their knowledge....

Thanks... PETE


ps - I learned alot (but then BB DAVE is my photo hero) and Ray has shared some wonderful shots of PA and why I love the area for riding..

[dannyg1]

. . . to carry a Leica and try to shoot while on the move. Trashing the camera eventually is just a fact of life if you carry one on the bike. I've gotten some really good stuff while shooting on the move, but it takes a lot of forethought, lots of shooting blindly backward over the shoulder, and and a large enough MP count to be able to crop after the fact while keeping resolution. The screens rather than traditional viewfinders on most compact digitals now is really a big help in framing while still being able to keep an eye on the road ahead. I would never try to use a traditional rangefinder--just too dangerous.

BBD

Learning to 'see' with your mind's eye is a basic building block skill for photographers and it's less cocentration intense/dangerous in practice than trying to glean an idea of what a digi-camera see's on it's back panel, especially whilst you're moving.

I personally don't use the back panel LCD's on either of my digital cameras for anything but review (and sometimes movie making) because I find the little screen distracts me from the scene that's actually happening in front of me.

I need a viewfinder, or nothing at all, to be happy. Well, I do need a great viewfinder :)

[MarinRider]

I use the paddings from one of these:

http://www.artisanandartist.com/bags/index.htm

Put the padding into one of these:

http://freightbaggage.org/?page_id=196

Strapped the bag onto one of these:

http://www.ahearnecycles.com/pages/bradcommuter.html



Thanks for the info! Will give Photo Village a call. I don't think I will ever take with me $10,000 Noctilux 0.95 on a ride or any ride.

I do not ride and shoot at the same time and when I do, it's always with my LX3.

Does anyone know of a bicycle front bag designed for camera gear with great protection and weather?