End of the Campagnolo Triple

[Marcusaurelius]

I just read on the campagnolo website (Dec 11 2009) that "era of the triple seems to be drawing to a close". I guess I sort of expected it when they ceased prosuction of 36 hole hubs, they weren't very interested in the touring and sport touring crowd.

Also, the shrinking amount of triple parts offered was probably another clue.

[rockdude]

That's sad. That market is not going away, although it may not be big enough for them to chase.

[Ken Robb]

so what? plenty of other sources.

[gutefahrt]

With the new 12x29 cassette and compact cranks, you don't need a triple. It's also lighter and uses a standard rear derailleur.

[Louis]

With the new 12x29 cassette and compact cranks, you don't need a triple. It's also lighter and uses a standard rear derailleur.

Maybe for some. For me a triple still makes sense.

Yet another reason Shimano is superior to Campy :)

[RPS]

With the new 12x29 cassette and compact cranks, you don't need a triple.
And if you use an 11-34 or 11-36 you don’t need a compact either.

Sadly triples got a bad reputation because riders think in terms of “needing” them instead of “wanting” them.

[goonster]

so what? plenty of other sources.
The Campy triple was cold forged, good looking, reasonably priced and (perhaps most importantly) had a relatively low Q-factor. It's what I chose for my eagerly awaited end-all-be-all bike (since the TA Zephyr is NLA). I understand it never sold that well, but I'll miss it.

[sg8357]

Campy will still be good for triples, the front shifter works fine.
Never used Campy or Shimano cranks anyway, TAs spec your
own chain rings is more sensible. Suginos better rings work
OK with Campys micro ratchet front shifting.

Velo Oranges Jurassic Park division is bringing back a copy of the Stronglight 49d
with ramped and pinned rings so you can build touring doubles. (46/28 for instance)

.

[oldpotatoe]

Maybe for some. For me a triple still makes sense.

Yet another reason Shimano is superior to Campy :)

No triple for 7900, yes for 6700 and 5700 but expect shimano to go the direction of Campagnolo and sram apex...with compacts and bigger big cogs in 10s...

[Dave]

I never used Campy cranks with my Campy triple drivetrains, due to their limited chainring offerings, so that would not be a big issue.

If they quite making triple FDs or RDs with enough wrap capacity, then you have a more serious problem.

[Tobias]

No triple for 7900, yes for 6700 and 5700 but expect shimano to go the direction of Campagnolo and sram apex...with compacts and bigger big cogs in 10s...
It may very well unfold that way, but I hope not. A compact is not the same as a triple, and even though it can meet the “required” needs for many riders, it will never be a complete replacement for one. The disconnect seems to come from those obsessed with weight (which isn’t much of a valid argument IMHO), those who fear the stigma of “triples”, or the legitimate few who can’t ride the wider Q.

Given the same total range I’ll take a triple over compact any day. I’ll even go as far as saying that I’d prefer the gearing of a 3X9 over 2X11.

[sg8357]

If they quite making triple FDs or RDs with enough wrap capacity, then you have a more serious problem.

Back in the Day, Spence Wolf made long cages to fit to Campy road
derailers, Campy's triple at the time, the GranTrashmo was good only
for door stop duty.

[Ray]

The only Campy part that I've used regularly since I stopped riding their whole gruppo about ten years ago is the triple front derailure. I've always had a bike set up with a triple, usually with barcons and a non-standard set of chainrings, and NOTHING shifts them as well or is as easy to set up as the Campy triple front derailures. So, for that, I'm mildly bummed. Then again, if I buy 3-4 on closeout, I'm probably good for longer than my body will be good.

-Ray

[goonster]

Given the same total range I’ll take a triple over compact any day. I’ll even go as far as saying that I’d prefer the gearing of a 3X9 over 2X11.
+1

[Ken Robb]

The Campy triple was cold forged, good looking, reasonably priced and (perhaps most importantly) had a relatively low Q-factor. It's what I chose for my eagerly awaited end-all-be-all bike (since the TA Zephyr is NLA). I understand it never sold that well, but I'll miss it.

I have one that I have used with 10 spd. alloy Chorus gruppo. :)

I also have one of the nice forged Sugino triples.

Q factor has never been an issue for me. I don't even notice differences in any of the cranks I have ever owned. Lucky me. :banana:

[CNY rider]

So is anyone currently using a TA crankset with the Campy 11 set-up?
Is it possible?

[Bob Ross]

With the new 12x29 cassette and compact cranks, you don't need a triple. It's also lighter and uses a standard rear derailleur.


The weight penalty has pretty much been dismissed here (or perhaps it was on some other forum -- I know 'cuz I used to think the weight difference was a big issue until someone called me out on it, & I did the research, & guess what? It's <100g total difference).

And while compact chainrings with a 12-29 cassette may approximate (or reproduce, or improve upon) the extreme ratios of a triple, it's in the middle of the cassette where I think a triple's strength lies: With 53/39/30 (or, what's Campy, 52/42/30?) and an 11-23 cassette, I could spend 75-85% of most rides in the middle ring and have a much smoother shifting experience than any typical compact drivetrain provides.

...and fwiw I ride a compact!

Biggest obstacle to triples imho is getting the front derailleur to operate as smoothly & effortlessly as a double. I've yet to hear anyone claim that they or their mechanic can achieve that. "Smooth enough" yes, but "As smooth", never. But as soon as they do, imma get one.

[dana_e]

I agree with Bob, if I ran a compact, I am on the 34-14 or 13, then bam I am out of gear and have to go to the big ring/ for the compact you need the 11 cog set to use with the 34 inner ring, that moves the cogs over a bit so you can grab the 12 if you have to

It seems like a lot of cross gear on the flat with the compact, especially if you have a 12 as the top gear

with the triple you get a nice chain line on the flat. 42-17 or 16

What do the fixies say, magic 70 inch

34-13 = 70.6
39-15= 70.2
42-16 = 70.9

just saying, compact would be nice if I lived at the base of a mountain

got lots of flat land here
I ride a double with a 39 or the triple

[RPS]

Biggest obstacle to triples imho is getting the front derailleur to operate as smoothly & effortlessly as a double. I've yet to hear anyone claim that they or their mechanic can achieve that. "Smooth enough" yes, but "As smooth", never. But as soon as they do, imma get one.
Although this is probably true for most if not all standard triple set ups, for me any lack of smoothness in front shifting is offset in large part by having to make fewer front shifts. By having a front ring right in the middle of the gearing range it makes it possible to stay there for longer periods of time. And you are right about the weight difference, it’s a functional non-issue.

[jlwdm]

The market is making it tougher and tougher for triples. As Campagnolo says:

"Already some years back, with the introduction of the compact crankset, the number of users of the triple fell considerably, marking a trend that has continuously diminished year by year."

If the demand keeps diminishing so will the supply.

Jeff

[Ahneida Ride]

My LBS guru runs a Triple ..

quote "I don't need a Triple, I want a Triple."

I'd like to see any one on this Phorum drop him. :beer:

Vermont has sustained 18-22% grades. at least where he rides.

Looks like the TA Carmina is the only real option left. :crap:

[sg8357]

Looks like the TA Carmina is the only real option left. :crap:

Let's get the Fed to nationalize TA, I'm sure the French owe us some money.
Bring back the Zephyr and ProVis5.

[Tobias]

Looks like the TA Carmina is the only real option left. :crap:
How about Ultegra and 105? Or MTB?

And since Ultegra uses 130 bolt center rings, do we know that we can't upgrade/modify other 130 BC cranks?

[bicycletricycle]

i have been pretty bummed about the current shimano crop of triples, 7803 and 6703 use an adapter middle ring to hold the granny gear. I dont really like the 30/39/53 gearing currently offered and would prefer something like 28/42/52. The nicest shimano crank that will allow me this setup is the 6603 ultegra. I am was hoping that campagnolo would come through with a UT triple but i guess not.

[Ahneida Ride]

Let's get the Fed to nationalize TA, I'm sure the French owe us some money.
Bring back the Zephyr and ProVis5.


Won't work .... ;)

The Pedal Preserve will just use Phractional Preserve Pranking to
create Pedal Preserve Notes outa thin air. They will say Zephyr on em,
but won't be redeemable in Zephyrs. :crap:

[jlwdm]

Looks like the TA Carmina is the only real option left. :crap:

Campagnolo still has triples.

Jeff

[Lifelover]

Campy going away from triples just makes it easier for Shimano to stay with them.

[Ralph]

RE the weight issue....I have a 8/9 speed Racing T and I usually use it with 28-40-50 rings with either 13-26 or 13-28 in rear when I visit NC.

I have weighed my triple VS a 39-50 older Athena (same general design), and I make the weight difference at less than 50 grams. Save another 15 grams with alloy chainring bolts. Shucks....there's more difference in people's shoes than that. If you wish to ride a triple, weight is not an issue.

[cnighbor1]

I agree the era of the triple seems to be drawing to a close with no interest in the touring and sport touring crowd by Campagnolo. But the use of a compact 50T / 34T with a 29t cog in the back get you most hills. Only when touring is there a problem. And a low of 28T on Camagnolo triples limited it for serious touring in mountains anyways. they require low of 24t front and a 32t or 34 t cog in back. shimano has it covered in MTB components anyways
Charles

[Dave]

The Campy triple uses the same 74mm BCD as other brands. You can put a 24T on a Campy crank. You will get chain rub at the tail of the FD with some of the smaller cogs.

I used a 53/39/28 with a 12-25 for years in the Colorado mountains. That was plenty of gear for me. These days, I use use 50/34 with an 11-25 11 speed (still in the Colorado mountains).

An MTB crank makes more sense to me for loaded touring.

[RPS]

I used a 53/39/28 with a 12-25 for years in the Colorado mountains. That was plenty of gear for me. These days, I use use 50/34 with an 11-25 11 speed (still in the Colorado mountains).

If a 34/25 is enough now, why did you change the triple to a non-standard 28? Seems you would have left it at 30T, or made it bigger if anything. :confused:

[Dave]

If a 34/25 is enough now, why did you change the triple to a non-standard 28? Seems you would have left it at 30T, or made it bigger if anything. :confused:


I guess I got stonger as I got more years of experience in the mountains and I no longer have an extra low gear that's rarely used. If I ride from Idaho Springs to the top of Mt. Evans, I'd put on my 12-27.

[RPS]

Our conditioning and llkes change, what difference does it make why Dave changed?

I am just happy for his contributions here :D :D

Pete
Because if we are not driven to understand that which doesn't make sense on the surface, how do we know we are not missing out on something we haven't thought of or tried yet?

Knowing Dave is very technical and wouldn't make such decisions arbitrarily, I figured his logic "might" help me too. If I don't ask I won't know for sure. A very strange question and comment on your part. And appears out of context for the subject. This place is becoming a little too weird for me. :rolleyes:

[RPS]

I guess I got stonger as I got more years of experience in the mountains and I no longer have an extra low gear that's rarely used. If I ride from Idaho Springs to the top of Mt. Evans, I'd put on my 12-27.
Thanks. :beer:

[RPS]

I also found your question more that what was stated above and thus out of context, just as your found mine to be. Yes the place has had some oddities lately :D
Precisely. However, the big difference is that I’m not a moderator and you are. I can be aware and sensitive to censorship while your options are much different.

With all due respect my question to Dave may have been inappropriate in your view but it was straight forward – hardly something to be misunderstood or taken out of context. Yours – in light of being the forum’s moderator – could be based on all kinds of ulterior motives I can only guess at. As a said, it’s a lot different.

Either way it’s the first time I recall anyone – but particularly a moderator – asking such a question (especially of me). Had it come from most anyone else I would have ignored it, but from an official Serotta representative I’m not sure what to make of it.

It's your forum and whatever works for you is fine with me.

[Elefantino]

Big mountains = triple.

Everything else = compact.

Reason = I suck.

[brenick]

I just got a 6703 Shimano Ultegra triple and think it shifts better than my Dura-Ace 7803 triple. I'm just sorry that Shimano has switched to the 130/74 bcd. Of course, if they come up with a 36 tooth cassette like SRAM has, then that will be great.

[Rueda Tropical]

So is anyone currently using a TA crankset with the Campy 11 set-up?
Is it possible?

FSA is making 110BCD 11speed chainrings for standard (not Campy) compact cranks. So you could adapt any compact 110 crank to Campy 11.

TA is making 11 speed chainrings for Campy 135 and compact.

[oldpotatoe]

I just got a 6703 Shimano Ultegra triple and think it shifts better than my Dura-Ace 7803 triple. I'm just sorry that Shimano has switched to the 130/74 bcd. Of course, if they come up with a 36 tooth cassette like SRAM has, then that will be great.

shimano has always been a 130/74 BCD for their triples with the only exception being 7803 where the small ring bolted onto the middle ring, not to the crank arm..now the 6703 is the same..no middle ring swaps to other tooth combos-39t only.

105 is still the pretty standard 130mm for big and middle, the small ring on a 74mm BCD...but I wonder if 5703 will be like 6703...

[oldpotatoe]

So is anyone currently using a TA crankset with the Campy 11 set-up?
Is it possible?

Of course it is. My demo Moots has a Chorus 11s group on it with a 2006 Record 10s compact crank/rings...works just fine. Far too much 'sweat' about matching rings to chain...10s chain with 9s, 11s chain with 10s, 9s chain with 8s..no real problem. MailOrder places will say you need to swap rings and pulleys and all sorts of other stuff but in practice, you don't.

[oldpotatoe]

Our conditioning and llkes change, what difference does it make why Dave changed?

I am just happy for his contributions here :D :D

Pete

He asked Dave.......

[jlwdm]

It is starting to feel like this forum needs a spring cleaning. Shut it down for a week and then start it up again.

Only partially kidding.

Jeff

[Tobias]

He asked Dave.......
Agree. Because of recent limitations on topics deemed acceptable for discussion and new rules for acceptable behavior, an otherwise unimportant question from a moderator can easily be seen as an attempt to censor participation. The problem is made worse by us not having a way of knowing when moderators act as moderators versus when they simply act as interested members of the forum. As far as I have observed they all do both. Mostly their intentions are clear at both extremes but sometimes their intent can be hazy.

IMO Rick should have asked Pete if he was asking as a moderator or as a member, and why Pete essentially censured what seems like a harmless technical question to Dave. The reply could then be formatted accordingly.

The part I don’t get and find confusing because it seems out of place is this:
I am just happy for his contributions here :D :D
Makes it seem like there was more going on behind the scenes. :rolleyes:

[Tobias]

shimano has always been a 130/74 BCD for their triples with the only exception being 7803 where the small ring bolted onto the middle ring, not to the crank arm..now the 6703 is the same..no middle ring swaps to other tooth combos-39t only.

105 is still the pretty standard 130mm for big and middle, the small ring on a 74mm BCD...but I wonder if 5703 will be like 6703...
The new Ultegra has 92 mm bolt circle which limits small ring to no less than 30T. I spent quite a bit of time looking for specs on the new FC-5703 cranks but can't find the published bolt circle for the granny ring. Looking at pictures hasn't helped either.

They are now available in Europe, so maybe a member there has seen or used one and can tell us. Otherwise we'll have to wait about a month or so until they hit the stores or Shimano updates their WEB pages.

BTW, I don't see why aftermarket ring manufactuers couldn't make different tooth count rings for the middle and granny. The original triplelizers that preceeded the DuraAce triples came in different sizes if I recall correctly.

[Pete Serotta]

Agree. Because of recent limitations on topics deemed acceptable for discussion and new rules for acceptable behavior, an otherwise unimportant question from a moderator can easily be seen as an attempt to censor participation. The problem is made worse by us not having a way of knowing when moderators act as moderators versus when they simply act as interested members of the forum. As far as I have observed they all do both. Mostly their intentions are clear at both extremes but sometimes their intent can be hazy.

IMO Rick should have asked Pete if he was asking as a moderator or as a member, and why Pete essentially censured what seems like a harmless technical question to Dave. The reply could then be formatted accordingly.

The part I don’t get and find confusing because it seems out of place is this:
Makes it seem like there was more going on behind the scenes. :rolleyes:

Tobias, I thought of many ways to answer this but in the end I am just going to say that "not much has changed on the forum, although we did try the OT section". The saying you can not please all has really hit home over the last weeks...so we are getting back to the way the forum was (yeah in our view and that of notes we have received). Sorry you feel different.

As to moderators letting folks know what "hat" they have on when posting - :confused: Not going to happen.

As to censorship_ I guess it is in the eye of the beholder. (I do not see it and the other moderators have and will let me know (as we do each other) if things drift one way or the other.

Lastly, it seems that you think I or the other moderatore should be the ones justifying our actions to you and RPS (but not the other way around- :confused: Not going to happen

[Pete Serotta]

Please lets not post anymore in here in regard to topics of non triple discussion. THANKS

[dana_e]

triple rocks

The levi gran fondao last year, saw lots of folks struggling with the serious steepness that exists in Sonoma county/

Sure you can run a 34-25 or a 27

but that 30 inner on the triple makes for a sweet low. and you get the 42 to cruise the flats. 34 on the flats sucks, IMHO

[CNY rider]

Of course it is. My demo Moots has a Chorus 11s group on it with a 2006 Record 10s compact crank/rings...works just fine. Far too much 'sweat' about matching rings to chain...10s chain with 9s, 11s chain with 10s, 9s chain with 8s..no real problem. MailOrder places will say you need to swap rings and pulleys and all sorts of other stuff but in practice, you don't.

Dumb question, but I'm limited in Campy knowledge:
Would the 11 speed left shifter and FD be able to handle a triple?

[Dave]

The left shifter pulls .65 inch of cable. When I checked my last triple equipped bike, that had a 2003 Record FD, it only needed .60 of cable pull, so yes it should. There is some question about the cable pull requirement of the latest model triple FDs. IMO, the pull requirement should not have increased, since it takes the maximum 5-click sweep of the older shifters to shift from the little ring to the middle. If any more cable pull was needed, it would take a double-pump of the finger lever and I can't imagine Campy selling such a setup.

Some users think the double-pump is normal because they failed to ever use sufficient tension on the shift cable.

The other issue may be the FD cage width. It's made for a 5.9mm chain, not a 5.5mm. I have narrowed a cage by tweaking it with pliers or a vise. With a 46mm chainline, I couldn't get the FD to drop the chain onto the little ring, with a FD made for a 6.1mm chain, but using a 5.9mm chain. A little squeeze took care of that. Campy recommends a 47.5mm chainline for any bike with a ST larger than a 28.6mm.

[bzbvh5]

I love campy and I really love my triple set up. It sure is nice to have that 30 chainring. Don't know how many times I've been on a ride and people are grunting up or walking up hills because their double is just not enough. Me I can take my time and spin up at a good rate. Sure is nice to do a rally were I ride the whole way on my bike. A double is great for you skinny people, us clydesdales need the extra "umph".

If campy does in fact get rid of their triple models forever, guess I'm going to ride this group till it doesn't work any more.

[dana_e]

All anyone talks about is low end and top end

ok a 34-25 or 29 is almost as low as a triple set up;

bu what about the combos you use day an and day out

with the triple you get a nice chain line on the flat. 42-17 or 16

What do the fixies say, magic 70 inch

34-13 = 70.6
39-15= 70.2
42-16 = 70.9

the compact is to get you to wear out your cogs faster

conspiracy

[oldpotatoe]

Dumb question, but I'm limited in Campy knowledge:
Would the 11 speed left shifter and FD be able to handle a triple?

If you use a 2006 and older Campagnolo triple FD or a older 8s shimano FD for triple, it will. The newer 2007+ Campagnolo triple FDers(comp) won't get all the way to the big ring, fewer clicks in the left lever.