SO do we have a new rule or ...

[Kirk007]

what's the story? Is OT section closing and we go back to General? There's plenty of stuff in general that seems rather OT but ....

Is there a rule on what's in and what's out? Steve closed a thread in the OT section this a.m. and I haven't a clue what it was even about, other than a vague gripe about what we as Americans are up to - so was this political or void for vagueness or ....

Some clarification and certainty would be nice, particularly for times like right now when I've got 20 minutes in an airport and need to decide where to spend my limited time screwing around on the 'net (and yes I still recognize its not about me).

[SoCalSteve]

what's the story? Is OT section closing and we go back to General? There's plenty of stuff in general that seems rather OT but ....

Is there a rule on what's in and what's out? Steve closed a thread in the OT section this a.m. and I haven't a clue what it was even about, other than a vague gripe about what we as Americans are up to - so was this political or void for vagueness or ....

Some clarification and certainty would be nice, particularly for times like right now when I've got 20 minutes in an airport and need to decide where to spend my limited time screwing around on the 'net (and yes I still recognize its not about me).

Please read this (I think it may help explain whats going on): What is happening to this section (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=71846)

I closed the thread because, yeah, of its vagueness, its negativity and its potential to go downhill very quickly (it already felt like it was).

Thanks,

Steve

[Pete Serotta]

Steve was correct in closing - - this was a thread that, based on past threads like it, was going to start heading downhill fast....

I have tried unsuccessfully in the past to convey how we could keep the OT section open but if I was to be given a grade based on the notes and posts - - it would be an "F". :argue:

While some of you might be frustrated with the OT section, the closures and with my actions, I am out of ideas on how to make them more palatable (short of just leaving virtually everything open - no matter what. )

This is a cycling/Serotta forum with some core interests. It is not an online Starbucks for whatever one choses to posts and then for the moderators to have to always defend their actions to a few. (Yes I am just as frustrated as some of you).

As a result unless some light goes on, or I am convinced by the other moderators, the OT section will go away Friday.

Yeah some of you may feel slighted (and I apologize), others might feel I am heavy handed (sorry but after all this time, I do not know how to convince those of you that this is not my intent or to change to what you want)

Lastly, others might feel that the Serotta FORUM is not for you (and this does make me sad), but you need to follow what is right for you and if you must - then move on.

Option you have is to contact Ben (Serotta) and voice your displeasure and convince them that a new direction is required.

Please accept my apology for being so "pointed", but I have come to the conclusion that there is no good single answer to the cross current of opinions - so I am going to proceed in the above manner.

Respectfully....Pete

[Lifelover]

Pete, you and the other Mods have NOTHING to apoloigze for.

The trend that I'm starting to see, and this is only my perpevctive, is that I dislike the threads that are "opinion threads" and started simply to Bit#h and whine about something. Anything, politics, Gov't spending, Basketball coaches or even bike companies. In the past it seemed like the OT threads were more about passing on information or asking for information.

Opinion threads are sure to go south quickly. Of course that's just my opinion :crap:

[Blue Jays]

"...Anything, politics, Gov't spending, Basketball coaches or even bike companies.
In the past it seemed like the OT threads were more about passing on information or asking for information.
Opinion threads are sure to go south quickly..."Excellent point, Lifelover.

[Kirk007]

Steve,

I was well aware of that thread; if you look closely you will see that I posted in it a number of times. That discussion died some days ago. I was just asking for clarification of what the situation was; which Pete has now provided to a degree.

I would still like clarification of how OT threads will be treated in the General section. Will some topics be off limits or not? I agree Pete, more than enough time has been spent on this and you will never please everyone. At this point the options are clear; they have been beaten to death. I simply want to know what is a foul and what is not.

[SoCalSteve]

Steve,

I was well aware of that thread; if you look closely you will see that I posted in it a number of times. That discussion died some days ago. I was just asking for clarification of what the situation was; which Pete has now provided to a degree.

I would still like clarification of how OT threads will be treated in the General section. Will some topics be off limits or not? I agree Pete, more than enough time has been spent on this and you will never please everyone. At this point the options are clear; they have been beaten to death. I simply want to know what is a foul and what is not.

I dont know if I have a 100% clear answer to this, but, imho...I would like to see all political, religions and negative threads closed immediately.

They do not have anything to do with Serotta, cycling or the lifestyle of cycling. If there is a negative thread started about a vendor or shop (cycling related) then yes, it will stay open as this is important for our community.

Politics, religion, etc...They can be talked about in many places all over the world and the Internet. I believe this Forum and its community should be based on cycling and the lifestyle of cycling. This is broad and we will keep it broad as many interesting topics do pop up here.

If this includes a topic of digital cameras and what will fit in a jersey pocket, thats great. If this is more about cameras in general, there are many Forums that are photography specific. Please use one of them.

Again, this is my humble opinion. I am one of many moderators. But, I care deeply for this Forum and would love to see it thrive and be great for many, many years to come.

I hope this helps clear up your questions and confusions a bit.

Thanks,

Steve

[Kirk007]

All right, this is exactly the type of clarification I am looking for. I will wait and see what if anything Pete says, as it sounds like your post is more your opinion than the official word. Thanks.

[Ozz]

I dont know if I have a 100% clear answer to this, but, imho...I would like to see all political, religions and negative threads closed immediately.

They do not have anything to do with Serotta, cycling or the lifestyle of cycling. If there is a negative thread started about a vendor or shop (cycling related) then yes, it will stay open as this is important for our community.

Politics, religion, etc...They can be talked about in many places all over the world and the Internet. I believe this Forum and its community should be based on cycling and the lifestyle of cycling. This is broad and we will keep it broad as many interesting topics do pop up here.

If this includes a topic of digital cameras and what will fit in a jersey pocket, thats great. If this is more about cameras in general, there are many Forums that are photography specific. Please use one of them.

Again, this is my humble opinion. I am one of many moderators. But, I care deeply for this Forum and would love to see it thrive and be great for many, many years to come.

I hope this helps clear up your questions and confusions a bit.

Thanks,

Steve
Steve,

I get where you are coming from on this...but not sure if I am on board 100%.

There are some people here with tons of esoteric knowledge (outside of cycling). And because we all have cycling in common, it allows the average-joe to ask a pretty stupid question, or seek advice on a variety of topics. Odds are, there is someone here who probably wrote a textbook on the subject, and someone else who published a paper with an opposing opinion. Regardless, this place is a one stop shop for most the things I find interesting.

While I agree that the politics/religion/opinion threads should be closed when the move away from civil discussion, I find the other OT threads some of the most interesting here.

Sorry, but 100% bikes 24/7 makes "Ozz" a pretty dull person....same for the forum.

Travel, beer, wine, photography, kids (and their sports), schools, and other sports in which we participate are but a few of the topics where the advice and opinions we receive here come from a section of the social & economic bell-curve that most of us can identify with.

I think there is plenty of room for OT without getting all heavy fingered with the "Closed Thread" button.

just sayin' ;)

[SoCalSteve]

Steve,

I get where you are coming from on this...but not sure if I am on board 100%.

There are some people here with tons of esoteric knowledge (outside of cycling). And because we all have cycling in common, it allows the average-joe to ask a pretty stupid question, or seek advice on a variety of topics. Odds are, there is someone here who probably wrote a textbook on the subject, and someone else who published a paper with an opposing opinion. Regardless, this place is a one stop shop for most the things I find interesting.

While I agree that the politics/religion/opinion threads should be closed when the move away from civil discussion, I find the other OT threads some of the most interesting here.

Sorry, but 100% bikes 24/7 makes "Ozz" a pretty dull person....same for the forum.

Travel, beer, wine, photography, kids (and their sports), schools, and other sports in which we participate are but a few of the topics where the advice and opinions we receive here come from a section of the social & economic bell-curve that most of us can identify with.

I think there is plenty of room for OT without getting all heavy fingered with the "Closed Thread" button.

just sayin' ;)

Yes, you are probably correct. You make great points!

I myself have used this place for many topics other than cycling over the years and have gotten some great answers, comments and opinions.

Why dont we just see where it takes us after the OT section is closed and decide from there...

I hope all (or at least most) of us agree on the politic/religion/opinion threads.

Thank you for the great thoughts,

Steve

[Ozz]

I had no problem with the way it was.

:beer:

[SoCalSteve]

I had no problem with the way it was.

:beer:

I think that when the postings became inflamed with peoples specific opinions on politics-religion-etc, it just got too "out of hand".

None of us will agree on these topics, so why bring them up here? There are plenty of places to do this outside a cycling forum.

I hope we can have a great and thriving cycling community here and if other "interesting" topic come up (like my mid-life Porsche crisis for one ;) ) then we can go with them...

Make sense?

Steve

[Ozz]

...Make sense?

Steve
yep.

:beer:

[Climb01742]

what seems like a fair compromise is: if we rule politics and religion out of bounds, rule everything else in. given the size and breadth of our community, our collective interests are varied. why not let all other subjects live a bit? and if they die, let them die a natural death by disinterest, not by moderator.

after all, aren't we trying to minimize anger and nastiness? let's not minimize diversity in the bargain.

(personally, i hope we can sneak a few civil discussions about economics in through the back door. we've had some good ones over the years.)

[SoCalSteve]

what seems like a fair compromise is: if we rule politics and religion out of bounds, rule everything else in. given the size and breadth of our community, our collective interests are varied. why not let all other subjects live a bit? and if they die, let them die a natural death by disinterest, not by moderator.

after all, aren't we trying to minimize anger and nastiness? let's not minimize diversity in the bargain.

(personally, i hope we can sneak a few civil discussions about economics in through the back door. we've had some good ones over the years.)

Works for me!

And, we can let them die a natural death as well...If they dont get "out of hand".

Cool?

Thanks for the great points,

Steve

[Ozz]

...(personally, i hope we can sneak a few civil discussions about economics in through the back door. we've had some good ones over the years.)
When "1centaur" speaks, I pay attention.... ;)

[Pete Serotta]

When "1centaur" speaks, I pay attention.... ;)

I do not see his topics or replies even being anything but a "value add" for all of us!!!!


PETE

[dannyg1]

Count me as the third rabid fan of 1Centaur. Though I'm pretty sure we're at polar political opposites most of the time, his logic and reasoning in argument are always enlightening which leaves me eager to learn from his point of view.

[SEABREEZE]

Pete, you and the other Mods have NOTHING to apoloigze for.

The trend that I'm starting to see, and this is only my perpevctive, is that I dislike the threads that are "opinion threads" and started simply to Bit#h and whine about something. Anything, politics, Gov't spending, Basketball coaches or even bike companies. In the past it seemed like the OT threads were more about passing on information or asking for information.

Opinion threads are sure to go south quickly. Of course that's just my opinion :crap:



Could not agree more with lifelover,.

There were several OT in the general area that ran while posted OT'S will now go into the OT forum. No one policed it, they were left there. I thought it was a joke.

Finally a moderator is doing what should of been done in the first place.
Follow through with the rules set up.
Thank you So Cal , now why havn't any of the other moderators acted in this fashion. I prefix it by saying, I did see it happen a couple of times, but others were left there. It either is or isn't

Everyone needs to get on the same page.

1) Thus far I am understanding this OT forum closes on April 1 and returns to the general section April 1

2) Serotta doesn't want religious or political posts.

3) OT posts will be allowed in the general forum
Please give us the guide lines as what is exceptable

To many threads of bits and pieces as to the rules, consolidate into a sticky. so that both moderators and members are all on the same page.

If it is Serotta's wishes to set up guidelines and not follow through consistently, then why bother to set up guidelines. It will resort back to where it is now.

If people see they can get away with it, they will continue...