Di2 may have Campy's number

[45K10]

I ride and love my Campy Record gruppo and although I have had Dura-Ace in the past I always found Campy just a little nicer and forked out the extra bucks for it, that was until today.

I rode a demo bike today that was equipped with the Di2 gruppo and it blew me away. The shifts were crisp, clean and felt amazing. You could shift under load while sprinting without a problem even between the chainrings. I am thinking about pulling the trigger but I wanted to hear opinions from anyone who has had it for a while.

I have some concerns about if the components get wet and how long the little stepper motors will last.

[jpw]

Just do it.

Campy, what's that?

[StellaBlue]

I'm waiting for an electronic group that pedals for me, then I make the switch. :rolleyes:

[Big Dan]

Shimano Di2 rocks.

[dannyg1]

I'm waiting for an electronic group that pedals for me, then I make the switch. :rolleyes:

Speaking of which... Is anyone else decidedly annoyed by the speed and ease that these new, almost silent, electronically powered food delivery cycles come up upon you?

It seems to me that the driving skills of the delivery people are severely lacking and the speeds they achieve quickly (and silently) amplify the danger they pose greatly. At least in NYC, that is.....

[norcalbiker]

Just do it.

Campy, what's that?


Yeah!!! But still Shimano though. :rolleyes:

[norcalbiker]

I'm waiting for an electronic group that pedals for me, then I make the switch. :rolleyes:

There you go!!! :beer:

[Big Dan]

Yeah!!! But still Shimano though. :rolleyes:


and ?

[ThasFACE]

Speaking of which... Is anyone else decidedly annoyed by the speed and ease that these new, almost silent, electronically powered food delivery cycles come up upon you?

It seems to me that the driving skills of the delivery people are severely lacking and the speeds they achieve quickly (and silently) amplify the danger they pose greatly. At least in NYC, that is.....
Agree 100%. I understand that these guys have a job to do and it's not an easy one, which is why I make a point of tipping well, but it really irks me when I see them tearing around on sidewalks, up streets the wrong way and otherwise generally being dangerous. The addition of these new electric motors includes 'fast' and 'silent' into the mix and that's not such a good thing.

Oh, also, they basically never wear any kind of reflective gear or lights.

It make me mad.

As for Di2, I'm a campagnolo devotee but di2 is very very nice and I'm trying to find an excuse to buy it.

[topher]

I don't know - I think the price on Di2 has to come down quite a bit to really compete... especially with the rock bottom prices in the UK right now.

I've taken it on a test ride, and its really cool - particularly the automated front derailluer trim - amazing stuff... but, I want to know a little more about battery life, etc.

[gearguywb]

I tried it at NAHBS and was blown away. Standing, pushing hard and shifted chainrings with nary a blip. Way cool. When the price comes down a bit I will give it serious consideration.

[norcalbiker]

and ?


And what?

[dogdriver]

I'm waiting for an electronic group that pedals for me, then I make the switch. :rolleyes:


There are several quality brands of these-- Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Harley Davidson... many are less expensive than the non-self-pedaling models that this forum seems to prefer...

[csm]

There are several quality brands of these-- Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Harley Davidson... many are less expensive than the non-self-pedaling models that this forum seems to prefer...

but not electric!

[CNY rider]

Some point in the next few years, S will come out with Generation 2 of Di2, with a more attractive price tag, and that will be the real threat to Campy and SRAM.
Right now it's still mainly for early adapters. Just wait for Gen2. I know I am.

[Fuzzybird]

Here is a full user review of DI2:

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70101

[StellaBlue]

many are less expensive than the non-self-pedaling models that this forum seems to prefer...

Guilty..If you add them together..

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9422/img0277uq.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/img0277uq.jpg/)

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/6282/img0884w.jpg (http://img708.imageshack.us/i/img0884w.jpg/)

[Johny]

how long the little stepper motors will last.

Until Generation 2 of Di2 comes out.

[Jack Brunk]

Best grouppo out on the market today. Limiting factor is lack of internal wiring unless your looking at a 10k plus bike. For me I'd have all my bikes with Di2 if internal wiring is available. In the mean time I'll stick with Record 10 red groups.
I have 2500 miles or so on my Giant Di2 and I'm still waiting for it to at least misshift but so far nada.

[jbrainin]

What happens if the battery should run down or fail? (And shouldn't there be a hub generator system for charging the system?)

[Z3c]

What happens if the battery should run down or fail? (And shouldn't there be a hub generator system for charging the system?)

This is such a simplistic question. Does the battery run down on your mobile phone? I have ridden more than 1600 miles on a single charge and the indicator still said 50% but I decided to charge it at that point just because. The battery indicator tells you where you are at and the system has the intelligence to first slow down shifting, then deny front shifts should you ignore/forget.

Hub generator? Really? Does your current system have redundant cables; they do break/wear out ya' know.

Scott
Di2 Evangelist

[CaptStash]

Some point in the next few years, S will come out with Generation 2 of Di2, with a more attractive price tag, and that will be the real threat to Campy and SRAM.
Right now it's still mainly for early adapters. Just wait for Gen2. I know I am.

Exactly. I'll wait for Di3 to come out, then scoop up a Di2 group for less than half price on EBay. It's my evil plan and no one can stop me. Not even you Batman.......

[Steve in SLO]

I'm waiting for an electronic group that pedals for me, then I make the switch. :rolleyes:
I have one...works great! Funny thing though, I still have to shift for myself.

[dekindy]

OP, I had the same experience last year at NAHBS.

[fourflys]

So, I've played with Di2 and, sure it's cool...

The main advantage I see people touting is the ability to shift under load and the "crispness"... I'll agree on the crispness, but it's not worth the $$$ just for that... Now to the ability to shift under load: unless you're racing at a high level, how often is it that pertinent to be able to shift under load? Wouldn't a better option during a crit to actually anticipate your gear and shift before or if you do get caught out on a hill or sprint actually know how to properly shift... I'm all for technology, but not when it causes up to lose skills like smart gear changes and knowing how to properly shift...

Now, for the major Con in my book: How many gears can you shift at one time on Di2? I sure like being able to shift down the cassette s 2 or 3 gears when I crest a hill on my Chorus 11....

I'm not a hater, just a realist for me.... If you have Di2 and it makes you happy, more power to you! :banana:

[Jack Brunk]

So, I've played with Di2 and, sure it's cool...

The main advantage I see people touting is the ability to shift under load and the "crispness"... I'll agree on the crispness, but it's not worth the $$$ just for that... Now to the ability to shift under load: unless you're racing at a high level, how often is it that pertinent to be able to shift under load? Wouldn't a better option during a crit to actually anticipate your gear and shift before or if you do get caught out on a hill or sprint actually know how to properly shift... I'm all for technology, but not when it causes up to lose skills like smart gear changes and knowing how to properly shift...

Now, for the major Con in my book: How many gears can you shift at one time on Di2? I sure like being able to shift down the cassette s 2 or 3 gears when I crest a hill on my Chorus 11....

I'm not a hater, just a realist for me.... If you have Di2 and it makes you happy, more power to you! :banana:
Flyman,

I've tested it over and over and I can shift up or down as fast as my record campy stuff. The **** shifts faster than my hand can. It's the cat's meow.

[Marcusaurelius]

I wait would until it's proven it's durability and even then I doubt I would try it. I have as much interest in electronic bike components as I have in carbon bike parts: little to none.

[jpw]

Exactly. I'll wait for Di3 to come out, then scoop up a Di2 group for less than half price on EBay. It's my evil plan and no one can stop me. Not even you Batman.......

pure evilness...and a little shocking too.

[Avispa]

I have one...works great! Funny thing though, I still have to shift for myself.
And that one is Italian too! :)

Look people... This crap about electronic vs. not electronic has its days counted... This is similar to the Steel/Carbon debate. One day, I could see most high end bikes equipped with an electronic group, just as you see most high end bikes in carbon fiber today.

One of the reasons I don't use electronic is because of aesthetics... I hate when I see empty head-ons and cable holders on my Serotta. Also, I like to work and tinker with my bike... This is something you don't do too much with electronic. You just install it and forget it... Actually the bike shop would install it! Which is even worse for me...

I can guarantee you that if Lance was on electronic today, a large(r) percentage of people would have been riding Di2.

..A..

[soulspinner]

Hope all you guys buy it and when the price comes down, so will I preferably in Ultegra form. Im a campy die hard and see no reason to change cause I havent race in over 20 years and if I sprint to a line Im not losing a sprint because of shifting.......................... :D

[jpw]

Slightly safer ...perhaps? Less to think about in trimming the front derailleur.

[oldpotatoe]

I ride and love my Campy Record gruppo and although I have had Dura-Ace in the past I always found Campy just a little nicer and forked out the extra bucks for it, that was until today.

I rode a demo bike today that was equipped with the Di2 gruppo and it blew me away. The shifts were crisp, clean and felt amazing. You could shift under load while sprinting without a problem even between the chainrings. I am thinking about pulling the trigger but I wanted to hear opinions from anyone who has had it for a while.

I have some concerns about if the components get wet and how long the little stepper motors will last.

I think biggest issues with Di2 is cost and gear selection. Expensive(twice SR or 7900) and one at a time in either direction on the rear. Campagnolo(and any other cable type system) is actually faster to a lower gear than Di2 and Campagnolo is faster to a higher gear ala the thumb button. Consisitent shifting over time is the main advantage of Di2..as long as the battery has juice, the shifts front and rear will be the same. However, crash a RD or lever and that is going to get expensive...$900+ for the RD, about the same for a lever set(no singles sold).

[soulspinner]

I think biggest issues with Di2 is cost and gear selection. Expensive(twice SR or 7900) and one at a time in either direction on the rear. Campagnolo(and any other cable type system) is actually faster to a lower gear than Di2 and Campagnolo is faster to a higher gear ala the thumb button. Consisitent shifting over time is the main advantage of Di2..as long as the battery has juice, the shifts front and rear will be the same. However, crash a RD or lever and that is going to get expensive...$900+ for the RD, about the same for a lever set(no singles sold).

+1

[victoryfactory]

I tried it at NAHBS and was blown away. Standing, pushing hard and shifted chainrings with nary a blip. Way cool. When the price comes down a bit I will give it serious consideration.

Yep, I tried it at NAHBS too. Same experience.
It seems to me that under certain racing conditions, riders with the Di2 could
actually have a very real shifting advantage.

Not as much as the difference between DT shifting and current "brifter"
shifting, but pretty big when you consider the auto trimming and shifting
under load.

One of the things that Shimano was doing at that show was making it very
clear to all the custom builders and customers that they would like to see
certain Di2 adjustments built into frames to make the mounting of the new
group easier and better looking. In fact that could have been a major reason
why they took the sponsorship.

If builders all get on the same page and start offering D12 ready frames,
Shimano gets a big boost. It also forces other component manufacturers to
conform to the Shimano ideas r start over.

Very smart move.

VF

[johnnymossville]

Surely campagnolo's electronic shifting solution will be moving out of testing and into production sooner or later. Hasn't it been in the works for years now?

[OtayBW]

I've tried Di2 - very nice. I like my gear as well as anybody else, but I would prefer to enjoy the simple pleasures of bicycling without electronic shifting.

[victoryfactory]

Based on my short test of Di2,
I wonder how hard it will be to shift when wearing big winter gloves
and
Did you see the new bar mounted auxilliary shift buttons?
way cool and very useful but the Shimano guy said they are not
released here yet.

VF

[SoCalSteve]

Flyman,

I've tested it over and over and I can shift up or down as fast as my record campy stuff. The **** shifts faster than my hand can. It's the cat's meow.

I think this argument is over.

Mr. Brunk has spoken!

And, he has never steered me wrong (no pun intended).

Just sayin'

Steve

[BdaGhisallo]

I have been using DI2 since August and, if it's up to me, I will never ride anything but. It is that good and that much better than what came before.

[Ahneida Ride]

Porsche PDK vs. Porsche 6 speed ????

Same type of question ...

Some of us will always prefer a short throw stick ....

Others the perfection of PDK ....

[norcalbiker]

I'm not a hater, just a realist for me.... If you have Di2 and it makes you happy, more power to you! :banana:

+1 :D

[Johny]

I have 2500 miles or so on my Giant Di2

It's gotta be darn good for Jack to keep it that long. :)

XXOO

John

[jpw]

Based on my short test of Di2,
I wonder how hard it will be to shift when wearing big winter gloves
and
Did you see the new bar mounted auxilliary shift buttons?
way cool and very useful but the Shimano guy said they are not
released here yet.

VF

Bar mounted auxillary shift buttons? This is the news I've been waiting for. Can you say anything more about these buttons please and how they integrate into the system? Are there photographs anywhere of this? Thanks, Jason.

[jpw]

Yep, I tried it at NAHBS too. Same experience.
It seems to me that under certain racing conditions, riders with the Di2 could
actually have a very real shifting advantage.

Not as much as the difference between DT shifting and current "brifter"
shifting, but pretty big when you consider the auto trimming and shifting
under load.

One of the things that Shimano was doing at that show was making it very
clear to all the custom builders and customers that they would like to see
certain Di2 adjustments built into frames to make the mounting of the new
group easier and better looking. In fact that could have been a major reason
why they took the sponsorship.

If builders all get on the same page and start offering D12 ready frames,
Shimano gets a big boost. It also forces other component manufacturers to
conform to the Shimano ideas r start over.

Very smart move.

VF

What kind of 'certain adjustments' are Shimano wanting?

[Jack Brunk]

It's gotta be darn good for Jack to keep it that long. :)

XXOO

John
It's in the back of my truck right now waiting for tonights ride.
Johny,
I'm I sick or what?

[spacemen3]

It certainly is neat stuff, but I find there's something rewarding about changing gears the hard way. It would be cool to see someone hide the battery underneath the saddle and route the wiring through the seatpost and seat-tube.

[Benjamin]

Bar mounted auxillary shift buttons? This is the news I've been waiting for. Can you say anything more about these buttons please and how they integrate into the system? Are there photographs anywhere of this? Thanks, Jason.

interesting.

in demo videos, shimano reps say that racers wanted to retain the same shift lever motion (i assume because it's familiar behavior), so shimano did their best to make an easy-to-click, light-action lever.

i wish they'd included some kind flight deck-like options, with the two small buttons under the hoods. levers would be lighter, even fewer mechanical parts, less physical hand motion necessary to shift.

maybe those would be too easy to hit?

[Benjamin]

It certainly is neat stuff, but I find there's something rewarding about changing gears the hard way. It would be cool to see someone hide the battery underneath the saddle and route the wiring through the seatpost and seat-tube.

everything should be internal (ah, the slippery slope towards proprietary frames made to accommodate a single component packages). wiring should be run through the bars and tubes - or not even: just go bluetooth, a la the SRAM "e" concept package.

the battery could be tucked away behind some aero fairing, maybe installed into the seatmast or something. it's coming!

[jpw]

everything should be internal (ah, the slippery slope towards proprietary frames made to accommodate a single component packages). wiring should be run through the bars and tubes - or not even: just go bluetooth, a la the SRAM "e" concept package.

the battery could be tucked away behind some aero fairing, maybe installed into the seatmast or something. it's coming!

The battery should be shaped to fit under a water bottle in the base of a cage, all Shimano designed and fully integrated....of course.

[Ahneida Ride]

It certainly is neat stuff, but I find there's something rewarding about changing gears the hard way.

Me too.
:beer:
I like playing with the gears ...


However even a die hard Campy snob like myself was mesmerized by the
Di2 ..... only took about 1 second. :banana:

[Johny]

It's in the back of my truck right now waiting for tonights ride.
Johny,
I'm I sick or what?

Safe ride Jack. Have fun.

[SoCalSteve]

Porsche PDK vs. Porsche 6 speed ????

Same type of question ...

Some of us will always prefer a short throw stick ....

Others the perfection of PDK ....

Wow, great analogy!

I guess I'm just old school, my 911 has a 6 speed tranny in it. I just like to do it the old fashioned way... :banana:

Maybe that's why I haven't switched over.....yet.

[Z3c]

Wow, great analogy!

I guess I'm just old school, my 911 has a 6 speed tranny in it. I just like to do it the old fashioned way... :banana:

Maybe that's why I haven't switched over.....yet.

I disagree here; Di2 will not shift for you. You are still the brain, it just executes better/instantly. I love a third pedal(in a car) and I love Di2.. Folks are reading too much into Di2; the interaction is pretty much the same, just that a light touch is all that is required but it is still required. Think modern keyboard versus a typewriter; would you go back to your fingers making the keys move? I know I my answer.

To an earlier post about winter gloves; I was, somewhat(I live in Tucson) concerned about this but actually found it easier with medium gloves than 7900.. Granted, I never needed lobster gloves so no experience there...

Scott

[caleb]

Some point in the next few years, S will come out with Generation 2 of Di2, with a more attractive price tag, and that will be the real threat to Campy and SRAM.
Right now it's still mainly for early adapters. Just wait for Gen2. I know I am.


Yeah, once street price is under 2k it will be standard. For now it's a lot of dough for club riders or amateur racers. Lots of guys I know could afford to buy it, but few wouldn't wince at replacing parts after a crash.

I'm riding Campy Chorus 11 right now, but I've ridden Di2 enough to know that it's the future. In five to seven years I'll probably have it, but for now wires will have to do.

[Elefantino]

I'm waiting for Campy Ergo Brain to come out. It will blow Di2 into the weeds.

Campy is working with several helmet manufacturers on neural recognition that will allow you to shift by thinking about it.

[Jack Brunk]

I'm waiting for Campy Ergo Brain to come out. It will blow Di2 into the weeds.

Campy is working with several helmet manufacturers on neural recognition that will allow you to shift by thinking about it.
From the elephant man's lips to gods eers.

[Ahneida Ride]

Wow, great analogy!

I guess I'm just old school, my 911 has a 6 speed tranny in it. I just like to do it the old fashioned way... :banana:

Maybe that's why I haven't switched over.....yet.

time for me to strip your 2nd gear syncro ... Like I did to Pete ... :D

[rustychain]

Get ready to flame away :D
I tried the Di2 and yeah it works (great in fact). Four hour test ride on the Di2 is the extent of my "experience" however so take it for what its worth. My main ride is SR11 to compare. I ride in rolling hills and mountains mostly. About 12000 miles a year.

There is IMO a lot of hype regarding electric. Frankly I don't care what powers my shifting I am more concerned about how it shifts. Fact is both systems shift very well and are very fast. Both systems shift better under load then ever possible before (still not a good thing to do however). So lets look at the speed of the Di2 vs SR11. Shifting on both systems is so fast that frankly it feels instant but I suppose the Di2 is faster for shifting a single gear but I have never seen actual tests and its beyond this poor souls ability to tell. Multiple gear shifting SR11 is the clear winner. Being able to dump gears on rolling roads has more appeal then the click click click click of Di2. Hood shape for me goes to Campy but I admit that's a personal thing. Weight goes to SR. Adjusting on the fly? Well yes the Di2 does allow for quick adjustments but is it any faster or better then simply turning the barrel adjuster??? Not for me. Now lets consider the whole 11 speed vs 10 issue. Frankly I was happy with 8 but I have to admit when actually racing the extra gears are cool to have. The extra gear of the SR11 (something that when I purchased my SR I considered silly) has turned out to be very nice. Point goes to Campy.

Forgetting costs I think both group sets are more then I will ever need but IMO Campag still is in there. IMO the Di2 main advantage will be for TT (not road bikes) were multiple shifter locations will allow riders to keep in a good position. Flame away Di2 fans :D

[victoryfactory]

Bar mounted auxillary shift buttons? This is the news I've been waiting for. Can you say anything more about these buttons please and how they integrate into the system? Are there photographs anywhere of this? Thanks, Jason.

Jason;

These we small aux. buttons mounted on the bars
on either side of the stem for shifts.
They are placed right about where your thumbs would be if you are
riding with your hands horizontal on the bars. They work just like the
main shifters on the brake levers. You can use either depending on
where your hands are on the bars. This makes sense in the new electronic
shifting world as the buttons are just electric switches and don't need to
pull on cables to work, so they can be very small and placed anywhere.

The guy who demoed the Di2 told me that they were not available yet, but
they were small, and super cool.I bet we will see them on some of the
pro sponsored bikes soon.

As for the frame adjustments, Basically the Shimano people seem to be
wanting the builders to make their frames with the right
sized holes/grommets in the right places to internally rout the wires for Di2 for
a cleaner looking install. I would guess that they would like to see a battery
pack mount or shelf or integrated water bottle mount thingy too.

If the builders all have a "Di2 ready" package to
offer their customers, that would make the big "S" very happy, I think, rather than
the slap dash zip tie installations that we have seen so far.

VF

[jpw]

Jason;

These we small aux. buttons mounted on the bars
on either side of the stem for shifts.
They are placed right about where your thumbs would be if you are
riding with your hands horizontal on the bars. They work just like the
main shifters on the brake levers. You can use either depending on
where your hands are on the bars. This makes sense in the new electronic
shifting world as the buttons are just electric switches and don't need to
pull on cables to work, so they can be very small and placed anywhere.

The guy who demoed the Di2 told me that they were not available yet, but
they were small, and super cool.I bet we will see them on some of the
pro sponsored bikes soon.

As for the frame adjustments, Basically the Shimano people seem to be
wanting the builders to make their frames with the right
sized holes/grommets in the right places to internally rout the wires for Di2 for
a cleaner looking install. I would guess that they would like to see a battery
pack mount or shelf or integrated water bottle mount thingy too.

If the builders all have a "Di2 ready" package to
offer their customers, that would make the big "S" very happy, I think, rather than
the slap dash zip tie installations that we have seen so far.

VF

VF, thank you.

I wonder if Serotta will be offering a Di2 frame package?

[sg8357]

I'd wait for Di3, that will have auto shifting tied into your HRM and power meter,
with optional cellular link to the remote shift buttons for the DS in the team car.

Right now Di2 only works with Shimano crank sets with two ring combos,
sort of limits the appeal, like a bike with only two stem sizes.

[oldpotatoe]

I'd wait for Di3, that will have auto shifting tied into your HRM and power meter,
with optional cellular link to the remote shift buttons for the DS in the team car.

Right now Di2 only works with Shimano crank sets with two ring combos,
sort of limits the appeal, like a bike with only two stem sizes.

Di2 will work fine with other than shimano 7900-esque cranks. Not as well as with the uber stiff and expensive 7900 one, but it works. I installed Di2 onto a Quark crank-no problem. 2 rings only for sure.

[Benjamin]

check out this steel and carbon custom, designed for Di2.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4049/4478009617_1e6bdf3868.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pandaface/4478009617/)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2717/4478009713_1fdd73c460.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pandaface/4478009713/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4478009833_e8defa4ed5.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pandaface/4478009833/)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4001/4478009947_3508f7db8b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pandaface/4478009947/)

battery in the saddle bag!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2785/4478635494_b150616450.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/pandaface/4478635494/)

[victoryfactory]

Very interesting bike.
It gives me some more ideas about battery placement.
How about a seatpost battery pack mount under the saddle? hmmmm,
those batteries are small enough, I think.

Are we seeing the crest of a new wave here? maybe.

VF