Wheel slippage with semi-vertica/horizontal dropouts

[SamIAm]

I have 1 bike with sem-vertical drops and 1 with horizontal. On both bikes I have had the wheel slip out during out of saddle climbing on steep grades.

I feel like I have the QR clamped down pretty darn tight. Should I consider moving away from QR's on the rear wheel?

Suggestions would be most helpful as it is quite the unnerving experience.

[goonster]

Make sure all clamping surfaces are free of grease.

I've had plenty of slipping with track nuts, so I wouldn't consider that route to be a sure-fire cure for axle slippage.

[veloduffer]

How old are the skewers? Check the "teeth", as they may be worn and not providing enough bite into the dropout.

I remember that was a problem on some aftermarket skewers in the past, when lightweight skewers were the rage.

[Ken Robb]

are your skewers ultra-lite weight weenie specials? I've never had this problem with Campy or Shimano skewers.

[jpw]

What material are the two frames made from?

Are they both derailleur geared?

What skewers are you using?

What do you mean by 'steep', in what gear inch are you climbing, and sitting or standing?

[David Kirk]

are your skewers ultra-lite weight weenie specials? I've never had this problem with Campy or Shimano skewers.

I'm with Ken......... not all skewers are created equal. In fact many ultra light ones really suck and have poor mechanical advantage so you feel a lot of resistance when you close the skewer but in reality it's not clamping all that tightly.

Dave

[Kirk007]

I had this problem a lot with my old Merckx Motorola frame. Good steel skewers like the Dura Ace and Campy Record ones (at least the old ones) did the trick. Also I've wondered whether the chrome plating on that bike provided a surface that allowed more slippage. Lightweight skewers would consistently slip. I'd start with the skewers before going to track nuts. Although I'm using that frame now as a single speed with track nuts and its very solid.

[ckamp]

On my fixed I made sure the dropout screws were even and tight (if your bike has them). And I put some track nuts on there and its been solid.

[RPS]

If the dropout is of a hard material like stainless you may need additional clamping force because parts don’t bite into the metal.

If the dropout, wheel, and/or skewer mating surfaces are smooth you may need additional clamping force. If too smooth I’d rough it up a little (dropout) or replace the other parts.

If you are a big and/or strong rider you may need additional clamping force. Not much you can do about that.

If you ride a bike with triple or compact you can generate additional chain tension and may need additional clamping force. Using a bigger cog may help but not a proper solution.

I’d focus on improving friction between wheel and dropout and also getting a good heavy duty skewer like a Shimano. The extra few grams is well worth it.

[SamIAm]

the frame material is steel, of course, not sure if the drop outs are stainless though? The skewer that I am using is DT Swiss.

There is quite a bit of paint on the drop out (not for long). Should I try removing it? How would one roughen the surface?

[Tobias]

Sam, if stainless you can use a Dremel tool to cut some small light scratches perpendicular to axle travel on the inside where the wheel nut mates to improve friction. Might help a little. I'd also check the wheel side to make sure it is rough.

I'd probably avoid scratching the outside of the dropout. I'd also "try" a Shimano skewer with steel rod, and would lightly lube the cam area prior to use to get extra compression.

[jpw]

the frame material is steel, of course, not sure if the drop outs are stainless though? The skewer that I am using is DT Swiss.

There is quite a bit of paint on the drop out (not for long). Should I try removing it? How would one roughen the surface?


"...of course..." :rolleyes: How silly of me ;)

[David Kirk]

the frame material is steel, of course, not sure if the drop outs are stainless though? The skewer that I am using is DT Swiss.

There is quite a bit of paint on the drop out (not for long). Should I try removing it? How would one roughen the surface?

Do you have a shimano or campy skewer you can throw in there? If not then a drop of chain lube on the external cam on the DT skewer will help you to be able to adjust it tighter. I wouldn't go carving away at paint yet.

dave

[SamIAm]

Do you have a shimano or campy skewer you can throw in there? If not then a drop of chain lube on the external cam on the DT skewer will help you to be able to adjust it tighter. I wouldn't go carving away at paint yet.

dave


I do indeed have some campy skewers. I will give them a go. Is there a test I might perform to check the security without me on the bike?

[vqdriver]

i had this issue consistently on a frame with chromed semi-horizontal dropouts. i was using the stock shimano skewers and had them cranked down pretty good.
tight enought to leave a slight impression.

it would occur when i jumped on the pedals, climbing or not. pretty inconvenient to have the wheel pop just as you need to apply some power....

anyway, i never really came up with permanent solution. but i never thought to clean the dropouts either, just cranked it down harder and harder. so i guess i'd try cleaning first.

this may seem overly simply, but i don't suppose you're mixing dropout spacing?
130 hub in a 135 frame?
126 hub in a 130 frame??

[David Kirk]

I do indeed have some campy skewers. I will give them a go. Is there a test I might perform to check the security without me on the bike?

I can't think of one. I'll bet the camp skewer takes care of it.

Those external cam/delrin skewers aren't very good especially when they get dirty or dry.... and they are always one of the other.


dave

[Tobias]

Titanium also stretches more than steel (i.e. -- more flexible, or lower modulus). More of the cam work is spent stretching than clamping compared to stiffer steel.

[Nathanrtaylor]

I had this problem with my Soma B-side mountain bike frame until I realized that if I can't read the skewer brand logo on the palm of my hand when closing it, I did it wrong.

Never had a problem since.

Also, everything everybody else said about skewers with appropriate methanical advantage for the job.

[SamIAm]

Great feedback as always.

Thanks

[nobrakes]

What kind of hub are you using? I had the same slipping problem a few years ago, with a steel Serotta frame. I tried different skewers, and tightened them to the point I stripped out the skewer nut on a Campy skewer, but it didn't resolve the problem.
The problem turned out to be the end cap (titanium) on my White Industries hub. I called White and they were already aware of the problem, and, without cost to me, sent out a new ti endcap that solved the problem. White stood behind their product. Your problem might not be the skewer, but that's the logical place to start.

[SamIAm]

What kind of hub are you using? I had the same slipping problem a few years ago, with a steel Serotta frame. I tried different skewers, and tightened them to the point I stripped out the skewer nut on a Campy skewer, but it didn't resolve the problem.
The problem turned out to be the end cap (titanium) on my White Industries hub. I called White and they were already aware of the problem, and, without cost to me, sent out a new ti endcap that solved the problem. White stood behind their product. Your problem might not be the skewer, but that's the logical place to start.

Well it just so happens that they are White Industries hubs. What was the nature of the problem?

[nobrakes]

As I noted in my 1st post, the axle end cap that's pressed into the non-drive side of the hub can be pulled out. White has a replacement that has a better axle to dropout interface design. Call them, they were very responsive to me, although it was at least 10 years ago that I had the problem. Did you buy the hub used, or was it a new purchase? Sounds like you might have gotten one of the older ones with the original design that slips. Good luck.

As I thought about this, it could have been the drive side of the hub, I forget, but the solution is the same, just other side.

[SamIAm]

Just to properly conclude this for future reference.

All indications are that the Campy skewers have solved the problem.

Thanks again.