New Argon custom fit system . . .

[BumbleBeeDave]

WOW! What will they think of next! . . . This is from VN's report from the Taipei bike show . . .

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Argon 18

The folks from this friendly Canadian company showed off a new fit system that employs an elegantly articulated bike frame. The frame has telescoping joints in the top tube, head tube, seat tube and seat stays, which can be adjusted independently to determine correct fit.

Step onto the bike while your dealer slides the parts around to match your points of contact, and hey presto, you've got your custom dimensions right there where you can see and feel them.
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I sure wish somebody from THIS country had thought of something like this so I could have been measured properly for my custom bike! Those wacky Canucks . . . how brilliant! :rolleyes:

BBDave

[flydhest]

Dave,

You're right. Makes me sigh at coming in second to our northern neighbors. Sigh. Funny how the sighs cycle, eh?

[William]

Good idea eh!;)

William


Anyone need 5 pounds of back bacon eh? :rolleyes:

[Too Tall]

Whack whack whack SUPERFLY don't run it will only be worse WHACK WHACK WHACK WHACK WHACK WHACK.

[flydhest]

owwwww!!! Mom!

[cpg]

That's very funny. Has anyone seen first hand or better yet ridden the adjust-o-matic bike by Bernie Mikkelson (sp?)? Alledgedly you can adjust almost every dimension and actually ride the thing. It must weigh a ton and look truly whacky. I've only seen pictures.

Curt

[e-RICHIE]

have any of you actually seen this?
it's quite elegant.
http://www.argon18bike.com/eng/index.php?section=1

[cpg]

It's not cruel. It's a neat idea that has been around a long time but the text makes it sound like they were the first to come up with it. Doesn't it read like that to you?

Curt

[Dave]

From the Argon web site:

"Ideally, we want elbow to slightly touch the knee when assuming a racing position on the drop of the bars….in fact the elbow as the knee will be right over the pedal axle when a cyclist is well positioned …the key here is having a precise measure of the "top front". Simple effective no more guess work."

Pretty much sums up what I've been recommending for quite some time, except I don't think that KOP is the end-all to saddle fore/aft position. For someone who climbs a lot like me, I want the saddle further back. As for the fancy stem length finder, I use the same criteria to judge stem length. If your arm and knee don't hit with the upper back horizontal, the hands in the drops and fingers in reach of the brake levers, the stem is long enough. Some folks may find even this length too long for comfort, if they aren't pretty fit.

[e-RICHIE]

i don't read where it says/infers that they are the first to do this.

[Ti Designs]

We'll take twins, fit one on the size cycle, the other on the Argon, then we'll drag both of them out on the street and have a race...

[flydhest]

i don't read where it says/infers that they are the first to do this.

e-richie,

I think it's words like "revolutionary", "innovative", and "Once upon a time . . . Now, with the AFS Bike Tool. . . "

That, to me, suggests that it is new and the first.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . is just PO'd because he missed his chance to get in on Phillip's stock deal! ;) :rolleyes:

BBDave

[e-RICHIE]

how many of you posted here before-slash-without
seeing the product first?

[flydhest]

how many of you posted here before-slash-without
seeing the product first?
not it. I looked it up right away to see if BBDave was blowing smoke.

[Too Tall]

dun shoot me, I'm the sheriff. I recall seeing an Italian version for road and mtn....but dang if I can remember the reference. Sounds like "me to" but I think it is a fantastic notion. The fellow who invented the "Fit Stick" was telling me about his idea to create an electric motor driven version of a size cycle device. His thought is that when a rider is properly setup this device with a remote control mounted in the bars will permit a rider to fiddle as they ride the trainer...pretty cool idea eh?

[BumbleBeeDave]

I would absolutely NEVER (puff) consider (puff) doing ANY such thing!!(puff!)

Here's a pic . . .

BBDave

[William]

I thought it was a good idea.

William

[e-RICHIE]

i still think it's elegant.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . of COURSE it's elegant! :rolleyes: I only pointed it out because--like Fly-Creature says--they try to make it sound like they invented it . . . which, as we all know, they did NOT! :no:

BBDave

[e-RICHIE]

i disagree; i read the site. it doesn't read as if "...they invented
it". it reads like promotional copy, and i think it's rather restrained
as well. what do you think they should write on their own site
about their own stuff? they didn't invent it - true. these devices
have been used in italy since at least the early 70s.

[csb]

... with pneumatically driven pistoned tubes.
adjustable on the fly.

[vandeda]

pneumatically driven pistoned tubes adjustable on
the fly*, perhaps with remote.






* no, not u

Dude ... yeah ... and then some chrome rims ... and they have to be spinners. Lower it a bit, a few subs to get the bass kicking ... and with the pneumatics (or hydraulics), we can get that thing hopping on it's own :D

Like the idea ... wonder why it's not more popular .. too expensive ... well, I guess you still have the problem that fitters have differing ideas of what an ideal fit is. But on this bike, at least the rider will have a better idea of what it will feel like, and have a better opportunity to say "man, this setup feels wacky".

Dan

[jerk]

the jerk likes it. it allows one to replicate geometry and actually "see" what the bike is going to look like. with all the stupid sloping bikes, time trial bikes, compact frames etc. jigs like the serotta size cycle make head tube lengths, virtual top tube lengths and all the other funny measurements tough to digest and explain even for the most knowledgeble bike fitter/seller designer. this thing really excited the jerk when he saw it on velonews yesterday and the jerk doesn't even know who the hell argon 18 is. the fact the headtube length (as important a frame fit measurement as one is likely to find in today's world of weird frames with sloping tubes, fat tubes, headsets of various contorsions and ahead stems...) adjustability, even the fact that a rider will be able to see the amount of toe-clip overlap....all this seems to make sense. it doesn't need to be rideable and the jerk hopes to god it isn't, but the jerk disagrees with all of you, (except e-richie if he is not joking, which the jerk isn't quite sure about....) that thing is pretty freaking neat-o....with a capital "o" if the jerk believed in capitals.
jerk

[e-RICHIE]

" but the jerk disagrees with all of you, (except e-richie if he is not joking, which the jerk isn't quite sure about....)"



e-RICHIE is not joking; it is an elegant solution. you can
see the virtual bicycle set up as it may appear in real life.
the stem angle, the stack height, and all the wacked out
resultant measurements that many fitters "don't get".
"fitting" is one thing, seeing the final bicycle's conceptual
layout is another thing. this reminds me of a rideable
version of my frame fixture, the infamous "hydra" seen
in the high end race frame section here:
http://www.bikemachinery.it/bike/fr_products.html

good shabbos to all...
e-MENACHEM

ps

:cool: ;) :rolleyes:
:cool: ;) :rolleyes:
:cool: ;) :rolleyes:

arrange disorder

[Sandy]

I am an identical twin. Really! Unfortunately we are not a good pair to try your experiment. He hasn't been exercising, so I know I could beat him rather easily, no matter which bike he rode.

The younger twin by 4 minutes,

Sandy

[spatz]

A quick Canadian "Bonjour" to everyone here, being new I thought I would jump right in. :beer:

Our shop sprang for some of the Argon18 related fitkit including positional AFS platform rollers, inseam and forearm measuring jigs etc... all topnotch and easy to use but pricey. The kit came with several binders listing all the major bike/frame manufacturers top models and their geometries/sizes for handy sizing and setup for athletes. I believe the "Bike Tool" although great, would be prohibitively expensive for most bike shops/teams to have around. The Gallium frame lists at $3500 CDN to give you an idea... so I would think you'd have to double or triple that to get the convenience of having such a useful bike tool in your stable. Interesting enough though, Argon18 has some issues in their frame sizing despite being so "fit" conscious. Although I ride a 56 cm frame... I fall within their "gap" as the closest frame they offer is a 54 cm or 57 cm. That gap was enough for me to jump to another frameset instead of going with an Argon. :confused:

spatz :)

[1centaur]

...I was going to say that the jerk could pick up the sole MA distributorship for this fine brand of bikes over which I have occasionally lusted and which has received good reviews from pez and others, but then I checked the argon 18 site and saw they now finally do have a MA distributor - ATA.

It's a little hard to figure out how a U.S. dealer positions the brand (in carbon fiber, which is where my interest lies) - a little on the heavy side, so maybe a big guy bike, from my reading Canadian designed but Asian constructed, so no really persuasive design/build quality elements to sway a decision away from Trek or the increasing hordes of CF bikes. A couple of years ago it was a pretty reasonably priced frame with good reviews and interesting color schemes. Today it's starting to sink into the mass middle, and drift off my radar.

But I agree with others - the fit bike looks interesting.

[cpg]

I think it's a fine idea but I'm don't agree with the notion that it shows you what the frame will look like. The chainstay length appears to be static as does the drop. Head angle appears adjustable but why is it adjusted to a rather unusable head angle in the picture? Heck it looks like about 78 degrees. Again, I'm not saying it's a dumb idea or necessarily a bad execution I just think it would be more genuine to advertise it as a rethink on the size cycle idea. Nothing wrong with that. Back to my original question, does anyone have firsthand experience with the Mikkelson invention? I don't think it's necessarily a bonus that you can ride it but it's certainly a complete rework of the size cycle idea.

Curt

[DfCas]

A local shop has one that I studied for some time,but I never tried to do a fit on it.I think its sitting in a dusty corner...maybe looking for a new home.

[Dr. Doofus]

what looks to your doof's unknowing eyes as particularly clever, but probably not revolutionary, are the wheel contact points. maybe -- and e-ritchie the kirks, and curt would be the guys to make this call -- the manufacturer could rpovide the fitter with f-c "limits" to work with for each frame size when using this jig...so you wouldn't end up, for instance, with putting all the fit points together and ending up with a 58cm bike with a 62 f-c...but I and doof are just bitter....

[madbiker]

I while back, like 12 years ago, I had a very crappy cust. service experience with the owner of Argon 18, when he was working with marinoni. Basically he was a total a-s-s-h-o-l-e and misrepresented product that was being sold. So out of principle I'll never buy anything from his company...