Merlin / Ottrott Comparison

[Austin]

I am currently riding a 63cm Merlin Extralight and have the opportunity to purchase a used 62cm Ottrott (non ST) of essentially the same geometry. The Ottrott's spec. sheet notes that it has a "stiff" tubeset. The Ottrott is not built-up so a test ride of the frameset is not available at this time. Can I get some feedback from any Ottrott owners comparing the ride characteristics of an Extralight to a "stiff" Ottrott? Given the flexibility of the bottom bracket area of my Extralight, I'm sure that the Ottrott will offer a vast improvement in that area. Your feedback please!!

[dirtdigger88]

this otta be good- I have been trying to figure out how an Ottrott would feel compared to a Legend- a year later I still havent figured it out

Jason

[Sandy]

I can perhaps give a little help here. The Ottrott has 4 different levels of stiffness- I will use the terminology that was used on at least some of the Ottrott's before 2005:

1. Soft
2. Medium
3. Firm Flex
4. Stiff

I weigh well over 200 and I am riding a 2004 OttrottST with firm flex tubing and oversized chainstays, with the less stiff of the 2 ST choices. I find the Ottrott with the firm flex tubing to be very "stiff" in the bb area. The bike is exceptional in efficiently transferring pedal input into forward motion. I was told by Kelly Bedford at Serotta that the "stiff" tubing is used only for very large riders and/or very very strong riders. I would be amazed if you found the bb area to have the flexibility you mentioned relative to your Merlin. If you think that the Ottrott is too flexible, please remind me never to have a fight with you.

In 1998, I test rode a Merlin Extralight. It was one of the few bikes that I found to be exciting to me, at least initially. However, the more that I rode it, the less I liked descending on it. I believe that one of the biggest differences that you will find, assuming that both bikes fit you, is that the Ottrott will be a significantly better bike in descending. It will be much more stable.

The Merlin Extralight, in 1998, gave me a feeling that it was very responsive and had a very light and quick feel to it, but did not seem stable in descending. All the Serottas that I test rode seemed more stable.

Please let us know what you think when you have it built up.


Somewhat Stable Serotta Sandy

I hope this helps you some. The Extralight is a great bike. But I truly feel that the Ottrott is a "better" more stable bike.

Sandy

[Austin]

Sandy. you bring up a good point concerning the flex rating and rider weight. The original owner weighed 240 lbs. I'm quite a bit lighter at 200 lbs. I enjoy the "plush" ride of my Extralight vs. the ride of my Klein Quantum. I wonder if the "stiff" tubeset may not be a good match for my bodyweight?

[Sandy]

When I bought my Ottrott, I weighed about 215 or so, and Kelly Bedford suggested that I use the firm flex tubing. I believe the single most important criterion in picking which stiffness level in the tubing for an Ottrott is rider weight. I am a 64 year old recreational rider, so I guess that should be considered also.

I would suggest that you call Serotta and ask to talk to Kelly Bedford. If he can't address your concern, then no one can. He is a very busy man, but he is remarkably helpful.

Sandy

[Sandy]

If you enjoy the plush ride of the Merlin over your Klein Quantum, I would certainly wonder if the stiff tubing is for you. Those at Serotta could help you. I am very satisfied with the firm flex tubing at my weight. I have ridden some Klein bicycles, including the Quantum and the Quantum Pro, and I did not find them to have a really "stiff" ride, especially compared to other aluminum bikes. The Kleins were my favorite aluminum bikes.

At my age,

Super Stiff Sandy

[Sandy]

PS- Glad to see you posting. You can learn a lot from this forum. There are a lot of really genuinely sincere and fine individuals who post here. A lot of them, me excluded for sure, even know a lot about bicycles.

I am here just to annoy Kevan, but that is another issue. :) :)

Kevan's Buddy,

Sandy

[Rich_W]

I think the biggest factor you'll notice is the difference in torsional stiffness.

In my experience between the two... Last season a friend and I swapped our pedals for a short local ride. 56tt for 56tt... Ottrott ST for M-XL... Besides the position feeling so foriegn, I was shocked by the difference in torsional flex.

Off the bat, the M-XL felt like a wet noodle when sprinted, yet lively... with more of a 'wind-up' in comparison to my O-ST (with firm flex tubeset, one step down from firm). Not saying good or bad... just a world apart.

I honestly think you're not going to find any bike that is stiffer torsionally than an Ottrott ST with the firm tubeset.

[PsyDoc]

How does your CR1 compare in stiffness to the Ottrott?

[Rich_W]

How does your CR1 compare in stiffness to the Ottrott?

Ottrott is clearly more comfortable in terms of road shock... and off-the-cuff, about 20% stiffer torsionally. I've never ridden anything torsionally stiffer than the O-ST.

As for vertical compliance... the Scott is stiff... but not overly stiff. I think its partially due to the 31.6 seatpost spec. Not getting much damping from the carbon post. Its definitely more livable with the Neutrons as opposed to the stiffer 303 carbon rims.

Bottom line... its no Ottrott... not even close if you're talking comfort.

Handling is spot on for me. I feel more 'over' the bike as opposed to 'in' the bike.

[dirtdigger88]

Sandy-

how much of the handleing differences do you think come from the BB drop being 8cm (I assume) on your Ottrott and the Merlin having a 6.7cm? Or what about fork rake- Merlins have a 40 rake where my Legend has a 43- I would guess these have more of a factor on handleing than carbon tubes

Jason

[Sandy]

Your question would be best handled by someone a lot more knowledgeable than me, but I would think that the handling has nothing to do with the carbon tubes, but with the design and geometry of the bikes. My ottrott does have a 8 cm bb drop and a 4.3 cm rake. The ht angle is 73 degrees (as is the st angle), thus producing a 5.9 cm trail. I would think that the 8 cm bb drop compared to the 6.7 cm drop of the Merlin would make a significant difference relative to the center of gravity, helping make the Serotta more stable. Assuming that the ht angle of the two bikes are the same, then with a 4.3 cm rake, compared to a 4.0 cm rake on the Ottrott and Merlin, respectively, the Merlin would have a greater trail and thus have a slower front end. But I certainly did not find that to be the case at all in riding the Merlin in 1998. I assume the hta of the Merlin was more, maybe around 74 degrees.

My bike has 42 cm chainstays which adds to the wheelbase of the Ottrott and I would think to its stable feel.

Interestingly, I remember reading a comparison test, some years back, comparing the Merlin Extralight to the Litespeed Ultimate and the Serotta Legend Ti. I had ridden all 3 bikes and agreed with the analysis. It found the Merlin to be the "jet fighter" of the 3, riding with quick reactions, not found in the Litespeed or the Serotta. The Serotta was easily the most stable of the 3, with a more deliberate and solid feel. The Ultimate was in between the Merlin and the Legend, not having the razor sharp reactions of the Merlin, nor the basic stability of the Serotta. The Merlin reacted quicker to rider input than the Serotta, whereas the Serotta did it in a more dignified (my word) manner.


Maybe some of the fit and design gurus will correct me in what I have said above, but that will be ok, just as long as they don't make me give my Ottrott back.

So Solid So Stable So Serotta Sandy