My dilemma - Help me decide

[Wilkinson4]

I have two fixed gear bikes and I need to downsize to one to help fund another project. Both of these bikes are very rare and very nice.

In one corner, I have a Rivendell Fixed Gear road bike from 97 with Sachs lugs that was brazed by Joe Stark. This is a very rare bike in that is has a track rear end. I doubt there is another Rivendell bike like it. And no, a Quickbeam doesn't count. I use this bike to commute on and I ride it at night. It is flexible in that I can run up to 30mm tires on it or 28mm with fenders. Joe Bell paint job in Pepsi blue!

Rivendell (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wilkinson411/sets/72157622882657504/)

In the other corner is a Brian Baylis fixed gear bike. Another rare bird since Brian doesn't make many bikes. It is really a fixed gear for the road with a 72 degree Head Tube angle and can run 28mm tires just fine. I have swapped the bars with Nitto Dream and the levers with Dia Compe compact.

Baylis (http://www.flickr.com/photos/wilkinson411/sets/72157617614026859/)

Both bikes are setup with great components. Each rides great but different. The Rivendell is 74 degree parallel and it is a tad tall and long for me but I have swapped out the bars with moustache bars and that has helped.

I go back and forth on this. What your you do?

mIKE

[fogrider]

For me, this is easy...stay with the baylis! I'm know that grant has built a long following, but there is no comparison with brain baylis!

[Steve in SLO]

Nice!
Choice 1: Keep both; sell your car
Choice 2: Keep the Baylis. It is perfection.

[mtflycaster]

+1 with Steve in SLO !

[spamjoshua]

Don't ever sell the Baylis.

Joshua

[Ray]

For me, this is easy...stay with the baylis! I'm know that grant has built a long following, but there is no comparison with brain baylis!
Except that I think Brian built a lot of frames for Riv for a while there when they were having trouble meeting demand - I might be wrong but I know a number of well known builders did and I think I remember that Brian was one of them. I had a Roland Della Santa Riv for a few years back there.

But based on what the OP said about the Riv not fitting quite right, I'd agree that in this case, it sounds like selling the Riv and keeping the Baylis might be the way to go. Unless your gut tells you otherwise.

-Ray

[Kirk Pacenti]

That's easy, keep the Riv and sell me your Baylis! :p

[m.skeen]

My vote goes to the Baylis. Gorgeous bike.

[Wilkinson4]

Ray, I am not sure about a Baylis Rivendell. Wow, even a Roland threw me for a loop. I thought it was Stark, Goodrich and then Nobilette!

I'll tell you what, Joe Stark can handle a torch! Keep the input coming but it is looking like the consensus is baylis.

mIKE

[rugbysecondrow]

Whichever one is the most fun to ride...if that is the same, whichever ones fits best.

[bicycletricycle]

i think that the baylis should win but they are both too beautiful to get rid of. Throw a technomic and some moustache bars on the riv and then they will be soooo different that you will have to keep both.

[fiamme red]

Except that I think Brian built a lot of frames for Riv for a while there when they were having trouble meeting demand - I might be wrong but I know a number of well known builders did and I think I remember that Brian was one of them.Baylis built in the 1970's for Masi and Medici, and under the name Wizard with Mike Howard. He never built any Rivendells (he now only builds a few frames a year under his own name, and certainly doesn't contract out), and in fact he cares very little for Rivendell's aesthetics.

http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10603.1043.e ml (I think this was in response to the OP?)

[Wilkinson4]

Wow... Pulled that one outta cyberspace:) I think that was a thread about what makes a bike collectible, etc... I think both of these fit the criteria.

mIKE

[Joellogicman]

As mentioned above, Joe Starck is a special builder who - intentionally it would appear - has moved away from bikes.

In some ways his work is as rare as Mr. Baylis'.

You could probably get more for the Baylis as well.

[Ray]

Baylis built in the 1970's for Masi and Medici, and under the name Wizard with Mike Howard. He never built any Rivendells (he now only builds a few frames a year under his own name, and certainly doesn't contract out), and in fact he cares very little for Rivendell's aesthetics.

http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=classicrendezvous.10603.1043.e ml (I think this was in response to the OP?)
I stand corrected - I remember seeing a list of all of the people who had built for Riv at one time or another and I thought he'd been one of them. I disagree with him on Rivs lugs being "hedious". I had a Joe Stark Riv from the same era with the same erichie lugs and JB paint. And it was a beauty. I rode the crap out of that frame for ten years and then sold it for just about what I paid for it. It may not have been a "collectible", but it held it's value incredibly well, as have other Rivs I've owned.

-Ray

[Ken Robb]

at some time you will probably regret selling either bike but my choice would be keep the Bayliss. It fits better so I would weigh that very heavily. While a Riv w/track ends is a rare iteration ANY Bayliss is collectible and very rare.

I'm serious when I suggest that whichever bike you decide to sell you try and get a first-right-of-refusal to buy it back if/when your buyer decides to sell it in the future. You might be in a position the reacquire an old friend then.

[Ray]

As mentioned above, Joe Starck is a special builder who - intentionally it would appear - has moved away from bikes.
And planet earth, based on some of the posts he left scattered around the IBOB list after he stopped building. But yeah, he built some fine frames.

-Ray

[Joellogicman]

I disagree with him on Rivs lugs being "hedious".

In fact, my preference for lugs tend to be for simple shapes deftly managed. I really love classic Masis, Herses and some of the other constructeurs (current builders such as J P Weigler and recently retired Mike Barry) who would file the edges of the lugs to the point where they vanishd into the metal.

Baylis does good work, but it tends toward the Baroque. I guess it is why some people like Bach, others Shostakovich.

[Joellogicman]

And planet earth, based on some of the posts he left scattered around the IBOB list after he stopped building.

:p

I wonder what he is up to now.

[Louis]

Keep them both, delay the project, and save a bit until you can have your cake and eat it too. :)

[flickwet]

this tasters choice would be the Baylis

[John M]

I'm with Louis, I would find a way to keep both. Unless the new project is of equal or better quality and rarity to either the track Riv or the Baylis, I would keep these and defer the future project until you have funds to do it without downsizing. If space requires downsizing and the new project fills a need (e.g. a commuter or cross racer that you don't have) and you must get rid of one, I would go with the consensus and sell the Riv, keep the Baylis.

[pdali]

What a choice..... I share your pain. If one really needs to go. Then kicking a screaming all the way.......... I keep the Baylis.

must be one hell of a project.

[retrogrouchy]

:p

I wonder what he is up to now.

Not sure, but he seemed to go off the deep end. Too many cadmium fumes inhaled over a long period of time, perhaps? I hope he is OK, wherever he is.

[woolly]

Pity that the BB doesn't have fender eyelets, but since it fits you better I say keep that one.

What sizes are these two specimens, anyway?

[Ken Robb]

Not sure, but he seemed to go off the deep end. Too many cadmium fumes inhaled over a long period of time, perhaps? I hope he is OK, wherever he is.

The last I heard was that he had moved back to Wisconsin. He did post some "unusual" messages for a while but I haven't seen any recently. He was a true artist with his tools.

[retrogrouchy]

The last I heard was that he had moved back to Wisconsin. He did post some "unusual" messages for a while but I haven't seen any recently. He was a true artist with his tools.

IMO, a lot of framebuilders that do amazing work have problems getting recognized/validated/rewarded for their work, and if you're as passionate about your craft as they are in some cases, it can get pretty frustrating. Add in the stress of being a one-man operation that is seeking perfection whie having trouble making any profit, and it's kind of a recipe for a nervous breakdown / whatever you want to call it. If you're also a Type A personality, well, that doesn't bode well either, long-term....

I really, really respect framebuilders that are successful long-term. The burnout rate must be quite high.

[trophyoftexas]

the Baylis, no question.