OT: Selling stuff in Classifieds

[Jeff N.]

Just a little observation, but it seems like anytime I sell something in the classifieds, either here or elsewhere, I always get the same 4 questions from possible interested/potential buyers:
1. Got more pics?
2. Are you the original owner?
3. Why are you selling it/them?
But the one that I wait for, and respond to, is:
4. I'LL TAKE them/it! Are (Is) they (it) still available? :) Jeff N.

[Chad Engle]

I listed two used bicycles on my local Craigslist this weekend. I have been inundated with spam and phishing scams. It has reached a point where I don't think I will use it anymore.

I'd love to get actual questions from real people!!

[dannyg1]

Whenever I post a frame or a fork (or the combo), some wiseacre always asks for the fork rake, crown height, max crown spread, steerer length, BB drop, angular drawings, BB drop and trail.

Makes you think they're hoping for a perfect custom built fit from that Univega! :rolleyes:

[regularguy412]

Given the state of the internet these days, the phrase caveat emptor comes to mind. Generally, more info is better than less. I'll say, though, that I've had nothing but great experiences buying here through the Serotta Classifieds.

Mike in AR:beer:

[retrogrouchy]

OT, but how do you like your SOMA Delancy? Is it a good value for the price?

[spamjoshua]

"Take a money order and ship overseas? I don't have paypal."

[regularguy412]

OT, but how do you like your SOMA Delancy? Is it a good value for the price?


Really a nice bike. Not quite the ride of my CSI, but it's not really that kind of bike. That is, though, the main reason I chose it. The new geometry made the fit VERY close to the CSI. It has Tange Prestige double butted tubing and lugged, to boot.

I managed to get a really good deal on the frame/fork from my buddy at the LBS. I had a few parts already on hand, but I did build up my own wheels: DT Swiss RR 1.2's, 32 hole, 3x DT Revolution spokes on IRO high flange sealed bearing hubs. Sugino crank takes a 103 mm BB. Altogether, I have about $1,200 in it, doing all the build myself. It's mostly a training tool. I use it for spinning practice and for easy, recovery rides outside or on the rollers.

Mike in AR:beer:

[spamjoshua]

My experience with the Serotta forum members in the classified, both buying and selling, have overwhelmingly been positive.

Good people, respectful exchanges, honesty...

Thanks!

Joshua

[Joellogicman]

My experience with the Serotta forum members in the classified, both buying and selling, have overwhelmingly been positive.

Good people, respectful exchanges, honesty...

Most buyer questions I answer.

"Why are you selling?' Strikes me as odd and not anyone's business but my own. All that should matter to the buyer is that the merchandise is as described and they want it.

I cheerfully ignore the question if asked once and say "because I am" if the questioner repeats.

[Jeff N.]

Whenever I post a frame or a fork (or the combo), some wiseacre always asks for the fork rake, crown height, max crown spread, steerer length, BB drop, angular drawings, BB drop and trail.

Makes you think they're hoping for a perfect custom built fit from that Univega! :rolleyes:
Hilarious.

[keevon]

Just a little observation, but it seems like anytime I sell something in the classifieds, either here or elsewhere, I always get the same 4 questions from possible interested/potential buyers:
1. Got more pics?
2. Are you the original owner?
3. Why are you selling it/them?
But the one that I wait for, and respond to, is:
4. I'LL TAKE them/it! Are (Is) they (it) still available? :) Jeff N.
These are all ways for interested buyers to get their foot in the door before they've decided whether or not they'll commit to buying. Stuff moves quick around here... gotta call dibs somehow.

Whenever I post a frame or a fork (or the combo), some wiseacre always asks for the fork rake, crown height, max crown spread, steerer length, BB drop, angular drawings, BB drop and trail.

Makes you think they're hoping for a perfect custom built fit from that Univega! :rolleyes:
I have no sympathy for you. This is akin to selling a stem, then getting annoyed when someone asks for the length and angle. People have a right to know what they're buying.

Given that we all do business around here for free, I think a little time investment to ensure that people know what they're getting is appropriate.

[Joellogicman]

I have no sympathy for you. This is akin to selling a stem, then getting annoyed when someone asks for the length and angle. People have a right to know what they're buying.

Given that we all do business around here for free, I think a little time investment to ensure that people know what they're getting is appropriate.

Unless the seller actually receives that level of detail from the fork manufacturer, most people probably could not accurately answer those questions in any event.

Experts sell merchandise at a premium as their knowledge adds value. The reason classifieds in forums such as these are popular is you can often get merchandise at a price well below what an expert can reasonably sell for. At the discount, I would not expect more detail for sizing than what is readily available with the sort of measuring tools people have around the home.

It would be another matter altogether if the person wants the same price as a good LBS or high end online resale operation does.

[dancinkozmo]

Most buyer questions I answer.

"Why are you selling?' Strikes me as odd and not anyone's business but my own. All that should matter to the buyer is that the merchandise is as described and they want it.

I cheerfully ignore the question if asked once and say "because I am" if the questioner repeats.

i like to ask that question and a few others like it , just to see if the individual im buying from seems upfront and honest...often thats hard to tell without speaking to someone in person ... if you answered me that way, i would think you may be trying to hide something....just my 2 cents.

[mack]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyg1
Whenever I post a frame or a fork (or the combo), some wiseacre always asks for the fork rake, crown height, max crown spread, steerer length, BB drop, angular drawings, BB drop and trail.

Makes you think they're hoping for a perfect custom built fit from that Univega!

I'd point out, however, that steerer tube length can be as critical as top tube length when sizing a frame and fork...... and may not belong in your original list. I also believe, if you've put yourself and your item 'out there' you'd better be prepared for all inquiries.
The very best way to avoid a rash of questions is to present your items including all known details.

Additionally, I'd also like to add that I greatly value the forum, including it's classifieds section, I can love the way this community takes care of one another and, in my view, it's simplicity is it's greatest asset.
-mike

[rugbysecondrow]

As an aside, does anybody really keep track of the milage they put on certain parts? For example, a cassette, do you keep a separate milage chart showing how much is on it verses maybe the RD or the crankset?

I have been asked they questions and I never have the answer. I try to explain how it was used and how old it is but I don't keep track of milage per bike and certainly not per bike part.

Frames, it is all fair to ask.

[zap]

As a long time seller on ebay folks send in questions and I respond best I can. Some questions are odd but the 10 seconds it takes me to respond might boost the price some.

I've always posted high quality pictures and offered as much product info that I can think off at time of posting but every so often I forgot a spec or two.

You have to work the sale no matter how stupid the question.

[dannyg1]

These are all ways for interested buyers to get their foot in the door before they've decided whether or not they'll commit to buying. Stuff moves quick around here... gotta call dibs somehow.


I have no sympathy for you. This is akin to selling a stem, then getting annoyed when someone asks for the length and angle. People have a right to know what they're buying.

Given that we all do business around here for free, I think a little time investment to ensure that people know what they're getting is appropriate.

Sure stem rise, angle and length are all pertinent.... to the sale of a stem. Research though, on a stock item like a Univega is not the sole domain of the seller. The buyer should take some motivated interest in finding out which production built candidates fit specific 'oddball' requirements before bothering every seller they can find with such questions. Univega Gran Premio's, for instance, have short top tubes (in most of the sizes) and that's nice to know (I put that in the ad when I sold mine a few years ago).

The full build chart for that bike, with every measurement listed in my orig. reply spelled out is unknown to me still because it's basically useless information. Buyer's need to suss out the basics for themselves and then ask *relevant* questions (Like: "I want to ride this with 180mm cranks and wide 32mm tires. Will that work well?" To which I'd answer with a BB drop measurement and a crown spread/brake compatibilty deduction.)

I beleive that most people who ask this stuff are doing it to set the seller up for hours of fun checking measurements. Not once has anyone who'd wanted me to do an after the fact build sheet has _ever_ bought the item for sale. Not once.

[Avispa]

How about when someone asks a million questions and requests, just to find out they do not buy anything!

Another thing I've learned is NOT to ship until the item is paid in FULL; that includes shipping!

I sold some wheels and I am still waiting for the guy to send a check for the shipping, arrrggghhh!

..A..

[Jeff N.]

These are all ways for interested buyers to get their foot in the door before they've decided whether or not they'll commit to buying. Stuff moves quick around here... gotta call dibs somehow.


I have no sympathy for you. This is akin to selling a stem, then getting annoyed when someone asks for the length and angle. People have a right to know what they're buying.

Given that we all do business around here for free, I think a little time investment to ensure that people know what they're getting is appropriate.My point is that if something rather rare and hard-to-find appears here or anywhere else, and it's exactly what you are looking for and it's offered at a very good price, you are wasting valuable time asking a bunch of questions because by the time they're all answered, the item will be.....SOLD, and usually to a party who doesn't waste a bunch of valuable time asking a bunch of questions. As an example, lets say I advertise a set of DA 7800 calipers in excellent condition, first $40 takes 'em. If I get 10 questions like, "Why are you selling them?", or, "What bike did they come off of?" or, "Are you the original owner?" or, "How many miles are on the pads?" or, "How do they compare with Campagnolo calipers?", etc.; then I get one that simply says, "I'll take them. How do you want me to pay you?" Well, that's just a no-brainer to me...the offer to buy will be instantly jumped on no matter what. Jeff N.

[pdmtong]

sometimes the questions asked are for confirmation. that the item expected is what will be shipped. sellers sometimes make honest oversights

sometimes the why are you selling question can help frame whether the part is right for the buyer, in the event the buyer is thinking more about trying it out, versus knowing this is exactly what they want.

it is relevant to me to know the frame angles, TT and HT and chainstay lengths, fork offset. Most BB drops and trail are in the "zone" so I dont perserverate on that. I got all wound up on a used IF XS once until I found it had a 74 STA and 13.0 HT (56 TT)....thats way to forward and low for my back

I do keep rough track of mileage, so i can attempt a maintenance schedule. harder with multiple bikes but not impossible. some things mileage matters. at least in the sense of estimating reasonable wear and future maintenance.

some things I expect pristine. other things not. a picture helps. i dont like imagining things and then having a conflict with reality

finally, I only ask the questions that are material to my decision. some things are nice to know, but I will not waste the sellers time on stuff that doesnt matter for the transaction. the seller is not a retailer.

some things warrant a phone call. I find that always helps in establishing buyer/seller trust, especially if the seller post count/forum activity is low.

BTW, buy with trust from Jeff N. I have. My experiences buying/selling on the forum have been really really good. happy to be a particpant here

[Pete Serotta]

Unfortunately all the questions usually result in no sale.


I get the check and cash it before the ship...unless it is the pals I know on the forum


How about when someone asks a million questions and requests, just to find out they do not buy anything!

Another thing I've learned is NOT to ship until the item is paid in FULL; that includes shipping!

I sold some wheels and I am still waiting for the guy to send a check for the shipping, arrrggghhh!

..A..

[Ken Robb]

I was in sales most of my life and learned that sometimes questions are really seeking specific information and sometimes there are other reasons. These reasons may not even be fully understood or even recognized by the person asking the questions. For instance, he may be trying to "get to know" the seller better through "conversations" to determine what level of trust is appropriate.

He may be signaling the seller that he is a potential buyer while he checks finances, spousal approval, etc. This may be a person who doesn't want to say "I'll take it!" and back out two days later. Heck, sometimes a buyer just needs a little time to get used to the idea of spending ANOTHER (fill in the number that gives you sweaty palms) on another bike.

As somebody else posted "you have to work the sale".

[tpendleton]

Agreed with Ken Robb--nice post. And as somene else said, buying/selling on forums like this have--in my experience--always been positive. Ebay is simply a last resort for me.

[majl]

Stuff moves quick around here... gotta call dibs somehow.
I find it amusing when folks call "dibs" by posting a response to the classified thread. I would say by and large, most of the stuff I've sold here has gone to forum members who contacted me directly via PM without posting a response to the "for sale" thread. How does one know when they post in the thread and call dibs that someone else already hasn't responded in private? Same goes for 2nd line line, 3rd in line, etc. It's the seller who establishes the queue.

As for questions, I'm OK with responding to them (agree with the "gotta work the sale" philosophy), but if a potential buyer expresses no commitment or indication of a commitment to buy after the question(s) is answered, I'm more than happy to sell it to the next guy who says, "I'll take it."

[cmg]

guy is selling a serotta on eBay with what i consider a slighty high Buy it now price. I send him a question about geometry, if he reply's and it's what i'm hoping for i'll use the buy it now. he hasn't replied so i'll bid low and try to snag it instead. as much information in the ad works best and actually answer questions even the annoying ones works best.

[pdmtong]

As for questions, I'm OK with responding to them (agree with the "gotta work the sale" philosophy), but if a potential buyer expresses no commitment or indication of a commitment to buy after the question(s) is answered, I'm more than happy to sell it to the next guy who says, "I'll take it."

Agree with majl

PM trumps a "dibs" reply in the thread. If you want it, tell me and not the world. In fact, sometimes I wonder why I even say pm sent when i buy...who cares? the queue is established by order of pm receipt.

If I am truly interested, I'll ask the seller if i can have some time (mutually agreed upon) to get back in touch and still retain my place in line. The time has to be fair, and for a good reason (not at my computer, need to check one thing...whatever). if I dont say that, I can't assume that just because I had a conversation the seller will hold the item for me.

As a seller, there are so many tire kickers. That's expected. But unless you set my expectations of what you are doing to finish the transaction, or tell me yes I want it and whats your paypal....the first person who does say I want to paypal you now is the one who gets the item. everythign else is just part of the expected process

[Joellogicman]

PM trumps a "dibs" reply in the thread. If you want it, tell me and not the world. In fact, sometimes I wonder why I even say pm sent when i buy...who cares? the queue is established by order of pm receipt.

as someone from the forum, patience within reason is in order. Otherwise, the only dibs I recognize is a Paypal payment verification.

[msl819]

i have not had this experience on this forum but others sites i have. someone will be selling an item as new with no pictures. upon asking for pictures they become aggrevated and tell me to look at a picture on line. i know what it looks like, i want to make sure that you indeed have the item and are not just putting an ad out for an item, asking for payment, and then will not produce the item. i know that paypal offers buyers protection, unfortunately i have had to use it twice now. thankfully not on items purchased from the classifieds here. i will always ask questions. i dont expect that someone knows the answers to every questions, but someone who has something to sell and cannot give reasonable estimates to common questions will make me uneasy when buying sight unseen. if that means that i loose that item because i did not act fast enough than so be it. it never ceases to amaze me how many times something pops us that is perfect, i dont jump, only to find that in a week or so another one comes available. i have both bought and sold on here and there is a good reason why this is the place that i visit multiple times a day. If i have something for sale i expect a lot of questions, many of which will not lead to a sell. i want you to get from me what you think you are getting from me. being able to shop, around the world in many cases, for parts is a great thing. if i was left to only look for used part in my local market i would be sunk, as i am sure many of us would be.

[Ken Robb]

Interestingly I have lost items both ways. Once I sent a PM and found out later the seller didn't check his PMs often but he was always on line watching the classifieds.
The next time I responded in the ad thread with an I'll take it and was told someone who had PM'd got the item. :rolleyes:
I think it would be wise to post both ways and with an email too if possible.
I do think it's not quite right when people post "PM sent" in the ad thread which tends to make others think he's buying the item when the PM may only be a question or an offer for less than the full price. I suppose I could take either side of this practice :) in a debate though.

[NRRider]

i like to ask that question and a few others like it , just to see if the individual im buying from seems upfront and honest...often thats hard to tell without speaking to someone in person ... if you answered me that way, i would think you may be trying to hide something....just my 2 cents.
I ask since the answer often reveals more than you'd think. They can choose not to answer, but it's a fairly harmless question unless you're selling out of financial need or some other personal reason (in which case I think "it's personal" is an appropriate response). Sometimes you get good info that can help you make a better buying decision.

A response such as "because I am" would end the inquiry for me. I'd move on to something else.

[pdmtong]

"pm sent" is different from "pm sent, I'll take it."

one time I was replying to the thread with pm sent, and then after that intended to send the pm

another buyer ironically was doing the exact reverse...sending the pm first and then replying to the thread.

the seller queued his priority based on inbound pm times. the other buyer and I were literally 1 minute off from each other, with pm and thread reply timing reversed.

I "lost" out, but it wasnt the end of the world. kinda funny actually

I believe the majority reply to pm's first, since these by definition would be the place to discuss transaction details, phone/address etc....like I said, if you want it, tell me, dont tell the world....

[Joellogicman]

I ask since the answer often reveals more than you'd think. They can choose not to answer, but it's a fairly harmless question unless you're selling out of financial need or some other personal reason (in which case I think "it's personal" is an appropriate response). Sometimes you get good info that can help you make a better buying decision.

If am looking for - replacement pulleys for a Huret Duopar - what helps me make a better buying decision is first, is one for sale, second, what is the conditions, third how much does it cost, and fourth, is the seller trustworthy.

On eBay, the answer to four is found in the buyer comments. On forums such as this, the IBob, or Peter White's bike forum that is how often the person posts.

Any possible answer to 'why are you selling the pulley?' save something along the line of, "well, I dropped it into a jar of acetone and figured I would dump it on some sucker" is not going to be of any help to the buyer.

The place for social chit chat in the forum is in the discussion forums. Classified conversation should focus on the part, not the seller's motivation.

[weisan]

hey pals, you all have it backwards, here's the way to do it:
http://serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71061 :)

[NRRider]

If am looking for - replacement pulleys for a Huret Duopar - what helps me make a better buying decision is first, is one for sale, second, what is the conditions, third how much does it cost, and fourth, is the seller trustworthy.

On eBay, the answer to four is found in the buyer comments. On forums such as this, the IBob, or Peter White's bike forum that is how often the person posts.

Any possible answer to 'why are you selling the pulley?' save something along the line of, "well, I dropped it into a jar of acetone and figured I would dump it on some sucker" is not going to be of any help to the buyer.

The place for social chit chat in the forum is in the discussion forums. Classified conversation should focus on the part, not the seller's motivation.
Funny how people extrapolate one example into more than that--one example. The fact that the answer may not be too relevant if you're buying a pulley doesn't mean that it's not relevant if you're buying, say, a frame or some other big-ticket item.

Have you ever thought that a seller may have insight into the product that you, as a buyer, don't have? What if the seller says "well, it's just a tad too flexy in the bottom bracket for me". Or, "it rides a bit larger than the specs would suggest". Not that these are definitive conclusions as to whether you're going to buy the frame, but I would not consider this any less relevant than if someone posted this same information in a non-classified forum.

[rugbysecondrow]

Funny how people extrapolate one example into more than that--one example. The fact that the answer may not be too relevant if you're buying a pulley doesn't mean that it's not relevant if you're buying, say, a frame or some other big-ticket item.

Have you ever thought that a seller may have insight into the product that you, as a buyer, don't have? What if the seller says "well, it's just a tad too flexy in the bottom bracket for me". Or, "it rides a bit larger than the specs would suggest". Not that these are definitive conclusions as to whether you're going to buy the frame, but I would not consider this any less relevant than if someone posted this same information in a non-classified forum.
My view of the world...

I think you can ask any question you want for any object, but you have to be prepared for an answer about as descript as your question. If you ask an open ended question, then be prepared for a short non-descript answer to some long drawn out story about utilitiy bills and the inlaws moving in. Ask the question you want answered. Is it flexy in the BB, does it fit shorter than a stock 58, is there any rust in the Seat tube or BB shell. If you ask a question like Can you tell me about the frame? or Can you tell me what condition it is in? Well there are so many different ways one go go in anwering the question and none might be helpful. When I have gotten asked questions like this, "How many miles are on it?", well I really do not know. I can tell you how I used it and approx how often, but I can not answer the questions. But, if somebody asks, "What are the BB threads like?", I can answer that question and even take a photo if that helps. At least the buyer can discern for themselves what is an answer that is acceptable for them to make a purchase or not.

[Cinci Jim]

I do have to say steerer length is very important and if you won't share I won't buy or I'll buy only the frame.

I bought a Legend w/ and F3 fork off this board - I asked the seller for the serial number and Serotta sent the build sheet to me to review. looked like a great fit. Looked at the pics and it looked like it had about 2cm of spacers. so I bought it for a Christmas present for my wife. When I got the bike, it turns out the seller had originally had the fork cut even with the headset with no spacers on top and then had lost flexibility so they had put 1.5cm of spacers in. LBS said this was unsafe to ride.

The wife said she would try it - this resulted in the longest 3 months of my life until we decided to spend $500 more and buy a S3 fork for it.

Now the bike rides great and I have a custom painted F3 fork with a 52 rake and a steerer best described as "stumpy".

Next frame I bought I asked and in the end bought the frame without the fork. Ordered a custom painted S3 fork and have domestic bliss at home.

It also helped that it was a smokin' hot lookin' bike...

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=67899

Sorry for the thread drift!

[Joellogicman]

Funny how people extrapolate one example into more than that--one example. The fact that the answer may not be too relevant if you're buying a pulley doesn't mean that it's not relevant if you're buying, say, a frame or some other big-ticket item.

Have you ever thought that a seller may have insight into the product that you, as a buyer, don't have? What if the seller says "well, it's just a tad too flexy in the bottom bracket for me". Or, "it rides a bit larger than the specs would suggest". Not that these are definitive conclusions as to whether you're going to buy the frame, but I would not consider this any less relevant than if someone posted this same information in a non-classified forum.

If I want advice on what frame, what brake, what group, what handleber, etc., is best for my particular purpose, I am not going to ask a private seller. I may ask - and have - asked for general opinions on the main forum. Before I spend any significant amount of money, I would do research on line, at the LBS, and possibly the library.

On the other hand, as a seller, I don't want to get into a situation where a buyer can say I messed them over because they relied on my amateur impressions - and this is no matter what part I may be selling - pulley to handlebar to frame to full bike (all of which I have sold, btw) - concerning the merchandise.

As a private seller, I have an obligation to describe the merchandise, its age, and its general condition. If you want more from me before buying, I don't want to sell to you.

[NRRider]

If I want advice on what frame, what brake, what group, what handleber, etc., is best for my particular purpose, I am not going to ask a private seller. I may ask - and have - asked for general opinions on the main forum. Before I spend any significant amount of money, I would do research on line, at the LBS, and possibly the library.

On the other hand, as a seller, I don't want to get into a situation where a buyer can say I messed them over because they relied on my amateur impressions - and this is no matter what part I may be selling - pulley to handlebar to frame to full bike (all of which I have sold, btw) - concerning the merchandise.

As a private seller, I have an obligation to describe the merchandise, its age, and its general condition. If you want more from me before buying, I don't want to sell to you.
Up to you. I'll ask for information where I think I can get it. If I can get it from the seller, I'll take it and evaluate its veracity/relevance. I would view an honest seller's answer as better than myriad opinions from people who've never used the item in question. The question may not produce any relevant information, but that's not going to stop me from asking.

That said, I would only ask it where I thought the answer could be relevant. Wouldn't ask if I was buying something like a cassette or derailleurs (though I may ask for mileage). But I would, for instance, with a frame, unless it were being sold by a dealer. Btw, many ads include that information, eliminating the need for the question.

As far as not wanting to sell to someone who asks why you're selling, especially if it's something like a frame, personally I think that's silly.

[Joellogicman]

As far as not wanting to sell to someone who asks why you're selling, especially if it's something like a frame, personally I think that's silly.

Most buyers have been positive. The few negative experiences have all involved the buyers complaining not so much about the part itself, but rather some notion I oversold the merchandise. It is hard to tell online, but I get the feeling these buyers are new to collecting parts (or watches) and had buyer remorse. Limiting their ability to complain is not silly.

As for frames, I have sold four bikes. Two I bought just to get the parts, so would have no impression as to their ride. Of the other two, one was a Homer Hilsen, the other a Trek 728. There is so much literature about those bikes out there, there is really nothing more I could, or would have wanted to add.

[dannyg1]

Steerer length is, of course, like stem length. I used that measurement as a part of a multi-faceted question and, for clarity, probably should've left it out.

Ever try to measure the fork rake on a Richard Sachs cross fork? I fought with that one for over two hours and absolutely screwed the pooch on the first result. Fixed the second but the interest was gone by that point.

And yeah, I thought about asking, for about a second. Last time I asked Mr Sachs about something he'd made previously, he was pretty clearly not happy about having to answer.

He did and was perfectly polite, but it wasn't something I would ever do twice.

I do have to say steerer length is very important and if you won't share I won't buy or I'll buy only the frame.

I bought a Legend w/ and F3 fork off this board - I asked the seller for the serial number and Serotta sent the build sheet to me to review. looked like a great fit. Looked at the pics and it looked like it had about 2cm of spacers. so I bought it for a Christmas present for my wife. When I got the bike, it turns out the seller had originally had the fork cut even with the headset with no spacers on top and then had lost flexibility so they had put 1.5cm of spacers in. LBS said this was unsafe to ride.

The wife said she would try it - this resulted in the longest 3 months of my life until we decided to spend $500 more and buy a S3 fork for it.

Now the bike rides great and I have a custom painted F3 fork with a 52 rake and a steerer best described as "stumpy".

Next frame I bought I asked and in the end bought the frame without the fork. Ordered a custom painted S3 fork and have domestic bliss at home.

It also helped that it was a smokin' hot lookin' bike...

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=67899

Sorry for the thread drift!