Campy vs Sram

[norcalbiker]

I would like to upgrade my bike and I can get a Campy 11 speed Chorus or 10 speed Sram Red for about the same price. I have a 10 speed Sram Rival on bike at the moment. I like Campy but I also would to give a Red a try but I just don't want to regret later. For those who had an experience with both components.

Which way would you go?

TIA

[zap]

Campy.

[norcalbiker]

Campy.

Thanks for the quick reply. Can I ask why?

[fourflys]

well, I can tell my experiance...

I started out on Shimano like most and this last summer I upgraded to Campy 11 Chorus... WOW, the shifting in so precise and smooth! The best thing I like is being able to shift down the cassette two or three gears at a time, really nice when you crest that hill and want a few gears more...

In regards to SRAM, I just had the chance to ride a 2010 speced Rival bike on about a 15 mile ride this week and just didn't like the way it shifted... I didn't mind the doubletap sp much, although not my favorite, but it just didn't seem as refined as my Campy...

Take this for what it's worth, but I haven't been a dyed in the wool Campy guy for decades like others and I think Shimano works just fine... but I don't think I'll ride anything else besides Campy now...

BTW- I'd ride Shimano over Sram....

[Waldo]

Campy.

Having ridden 1,000+ on SRAM Red and 500+ on Record/Chorus 11 mix, I prefer Campy for front shifts, lever feel, and shifting feedback (how my hand feels when I shift).

[JMerring]

campy fur sure. build quality and durability on sram gruppos is not great. the old campy vs. shimano adage should thus be modified thus: shimano wears out, sram wears out quicker, campagnolo wears in.

[bking]

i've used them all. most of my bikes have Sram Red. I started out with Dura ace and on the second bike tried Sram and just stuck with it. I just got a Sachs with Campy on it. Great mechanics, works well.
I'm no mechanic so i can't speak to ease of repair etc. I have 4 or 5 bikes with Sram now, and no out of ordinary problems.

They're all very good at shifting. On the Campy i just don't like the thumb shift. You must move your hand from any of the normal postions to use it. I love the looks, the history, maybe i'm just lazy.

[norcalbiker]

Thanks people!

Going for Campy Chorus.

[dekindy]

My backup bike has Campy. This is the first time that I have ridden it. I don't care for the thumb shifter. I will stick with Shimano or switch to SRAM when I have to replace my current groupo, which should be a very long time.

[Lovetoclimb]

If you want your bike to sound like a chainsaw taking down a redwood SRAM is your best bet.

If you want silky smooth shifting, longevity, style, panache, and something worthy of anything beyond a Huffy trail-jumper, Campy is it! Smart move on the Chorus 11. I run a mix of Chorus, Record, and SR 11 myself. Significant upgrade from DA 7800.

[tim10025]

I've been trying both Campy Chorus and Sram Force recently. The SRAM group feels cheap and plasticky to me, both in the feel of the shifters themselves and in the feel and sound when shifting gears. Don't like it at all. Campy feels more solid and high quality, and the ergonomics of the Campy levers feels better to me.

[Lundbeck]

1) Campy
2) Shimano
3) Whittling my own drivetrain from driftwood
4) Switching to jogging
5) SRAM

[zap]

Thanks for the quick reply. Can I ask why?

As others have posted since my quick response, for me it's the build quality. It works as part of my tt kit but I didn't know what it was all about when I purchased the parts.

God, I just love some of the reponses. Someone posted panache :banana:

[fourflys]

They're all very good at shifting. On the Campy i just don't like the thumb shift. You must move your hand from any of the normal postions to use it. I love the looks, the history, maybe i'm just lazy.

Hmmm, everyone is different of course but I find I move my hands out of a "normal" position more with Shimano and especially with Sram than with Campy... The campy thumb thing means I just rotate my thumb back a bit and shift, not a problem... But, maybe that's just me...

and, yes, Panache is a good word... :D

[legacysti888]

Wow. Impressive.

Lotsa SRAM haters here...

Do all the haters here own Red for a season or more to come to this conclusion?

Or are these conclusions based from a test ride or what people said or read on the internet?

Just wondering.... :confused:

[Pete Serotta]

Pick your poison Campy, Shimano, Sram (or from the 60s - - Chrysler, Ford, Chevy). They all work, just some what different personality.


I like CAMPY, recommend Shimano, and think about SRAM... :p

[fourflys]

Wow. Impressive.

Lotsa SRAM haters here...

Do all the haters here own Red for a season or more to come to this conclusion?

Or are these conclusions based from a test ride or what people said or read on the internet?

Just wondering.... :confused:

I've ridden Sram twice now and didn't care for it either time... Loved my Campy from Day 1, hour 1...

If Sram works for you, awesome but I was just giving my take as the OP requested...

no worries!

[vqdriver]

i've been on the fence about this myself for a new build. i've had shimano and now campy.
i'm probably going to go with sram anyway just cuz it's a good opportunity to try it out, but definitely not going to shell out for the red.

to OP, if you've got rival on another bike now, i don't think you'll notice much difference at all. if you've got early sram, you'll get zero loss and a shorter throw, but the mechanics and performance of shifting should be pretty much what you've got now.

[soulspinner]

Read a recent review of all 3 (Force, Chorus,Ultegra 6700) that measured rear shift speed. Campy was by far the quickest shifting. I rode Force on a Madone and the only thing I was impressed with was the braking power. Ive had Campy for a long time, and Im biased, but Im sure you will love Chorus 11. :beer:

[jpw]

'Campy' has a nice logotype
SRAM sounds like the way it changes
7900 electronic - the new world order.

[hookookadoo]

I've ridden Sram twice now and didn't care for it either time... Loved my Campy from Day 1, hour 1...

If Sram works for you, awesome but I was just giving my take as the OP requested...

no worries!


+1(sort of). Full Disclosure: I ride Shimano, have never ridden Campy but I have ridden SRAM twice for very short rides but my immediate reaction was it was amazingly clunky as in big chunky clunks vs. a smoother quiet refined clunk. Didn't really like that aspect.

I do believe, to an earlier posters point, if you used it for a year like anything else it would probably grow on you and you would enjoy it.

[znfdl]

I moved from Campy 10 speed to SRAM. The 11 speed stuff just got too expensive for me when building a new bike. Both groups work well, I like the shape of the SRAM hoods better than the Campy hoods.

The SRAM cassettes and chains are much less eexpensive than the campy stuff. Campy also turned me off due the proprietary nature of their 11 speed chain tools.

[Climb01742]

just a guess but if someone has ridden shimano for a long time, the thumb shifting of campy just_feels_strange. not that it_is_strange, just that our hands have become "trained" to shimano. at least that's been the case with me. i have so much muscle memory that, try as i might, i just can't get used to the thumb shifting. silly but true.

conversely, the sram hood shape is so comfy to my hands, i'm tempted to put up with the clunkier shifting to have the hoods.

all in all, :crap:

[oldpotatoe]

1) Campy
2) Shimano
3) Whittling my own drivetrain from driftwood
4) Switching to jogging
5) SRAM

Hear, hear!!

[NRRider]

I've ridden all 3. Thoughts:
1. Echo the posts above saying if the thumb shifter works well for you, you'll probably prefer Campy.
2. I tried Campy and found I had to rotate my entire hand to get to the thumb shifter and that was uncomfortable. Would like to try the new stuff to see if the ergonomics have changed.
3. I don't think you can beat the solid feel of the upshifts on SRAM (I have Red). The clicks just feel so precise and the response immediate. Campy's advantage is the ability to upshift several cogs at a time.
4. Love the downshifting on my DA 7800. Very smooth and effortless.
5. SRAM is noisy if you use the Red cassette. Problem easily solved by using a Shimano cassette.

Best of luck with whatever you end up buying.

[Dave]

Unless you have a thumb that does not function normally, all that's required to use the thumb button is to swing the thumb back slightly and push down with whatever part of the thumb touches the button. No need to slide the hand back or rotate the hand.

I saw a video test report that complained about the thumb button and showed the user sliding his hand back to use the end of his thumb. Not the sharpest test subject.

The new brake hoods are far more comfortable, but the relationship between the thumb button and brake hood are not significantly different.

I used Shimano from '92-'94, then switched to Campy in '95. I had no trouble adapting the to Campy ergo lever at all. Those old 8 speed hoods weren't the best though. They were improved just a couple of years later.

[Charles M]

just a guess but if someone has ridden shimano for a long time, the thumb shifting of campy just_feels_strange. not that it_is_strange, just that our hands have become "trained" to shimano. at least that's been the case with me. i have so much muscle memory that, try as i might, i just can't get used to the thumb shifting. silly but true.

conversely, the sram hood shape is so comfy to my hands, i'm tempted to put up with the clunkier shifting to have the hoods.

all in all, :crap:



Honestly the shifting on RED with zero loss isn't what I would call clunky...


Right now I have two DA bikes and two Record 11 Speed bikes too. But the last 5 bikes I have spec built have beed SRAM.

I just bought 3 group sets for 3 more test bikes...



Despite the fact that both Shimano and Campy have redesigned to be more like RED, I like the ergonomics of RED better.

Shimano and Campy both wanted RED like ERGO's but didnt want to make minor adjustments that would look like they just plugged RED ideas into their existing ergo's... If you look at their Levers now, The Campy lever is now the "large" lever and Shimano are the smaller. They both "made the leap" in terms of lever ergo's but wrapped em differently to the point they kinda just swapped places making the Campy lever look like DA RED and VV...


Shimano gave up shifting performance (though still really good) and had to change the brake pull ratio in order to hide their cables. I think they lost in the trade, but not enough that they are not still very good.

Campy changed ergo's a lot and I like the new lever shape but I dont like 150 dollar chain tools for extremely expensive chains and cassettes. I also dont think the shifting is better now that it was at 10 and I think SRAM function and ergonomics is on par.



Performance being dang close to equal, I like SRAM first, Campy Second and Shimano dropped to third. Toss in DI2 and I it's performance best but still would prefer Campy or SRAM to the wire set up for Di2.


Like I said, I like the Ergo's more but that's personal taste. I like the shifting action of double tap as much as RED and more than Shimano. I'm not one that fusses over cost much but I think the Premium for Campy is silly. Frankly Recod pricing is stupid. If it came with a big performance or weight advantage, maybe, but it realy simply does not.

And last and maybe more important to me,,, I think SRAM's attitude and their getting into the road market was a HUGE benefit to dealers and bike makers and the public.

Very Frankly, I have people I like at all three companies and all have hard working folks, but the attitude at Campy was fuching bad before SRAM launched. And Shimano were only marginally better.

SRAM came along and acted like they not only were "bike guys" but that they really wanted people on their product... Shimano had become indifferent to some degree and Campy were acting like you should be happy to speak with them. SRAM are still great and now Campy and Shimano are as well. But I think SRAM deserves the tie breaker now.


I used to be 100% Campy. Still love it. Shimano have a great groupo with DA and Di2 really is fantastic but it's so over the top price wise that I dont think the slight difs in performance merrit the change. Performance weight, price and customer support combined and I'm buying RED.


Most of that's personal choice though. I dont think there is a really big arguement for one of these a lot more than the other on function. I think it's a lot more about personal taste.

[cmg]

Campy. I have used campy since 9 speed came out. Thumb shifter has never been a problem. rebuilt 2 sets of shifters. most difficult was affording the parts but at least i could find them. have always liked the clean bars/hidden cable look of campy. will switch to 11 speed when they release the next generation 12 speed or 13 speed or whatever.

[NRRider]

Unless you have a thumb that does not function normally, all that's required to use the thumb button is to swing the thumb back slightly and push down with whatever part of the thumb touches the button. No need to slide the hand back or rotate the hand.

I saw a video test report that complained about the thumb button and showed the user sliding his hand back to use the end of his thumb. Not the sharpest test subject.
So Campy thumb shifting works for everyone without having to shift hand position? I disagree. Several others do as well. Would like to think not all of us belong in the "not the sharpest test subject" bucket, but hey, perhaps we do.

[endosch2]

I went from being a long time Shimano devotee to campy and I really like campy. Most of the reasons have been mentioned here - I guess what I notice the most is that it the most confident shift under load. While Shimano is butterry smooth and quiet - there was something about shifting it under load where it seemed like the behavior changed a little. Campy is solid all the way around - I also think the stuff wears far better than anything else.

[Dave]

So Campy thumb shifting works for everyone without having to shift hand position? I disagree. Several others do as well. Would like to think not all of us belong in the "not the sharpest test subject" bucket, but hey, perhaps we do.

Well, the thumb sits just in front of the button, usually touching it. If you are unable to raise your thumb up and rotate it slightly back, then you have a problem with the flexibility of your thumb. Perhaps it's a big hands/large thumbs problem. The joint in the middle of my thumb contacts the button if I rotate it back. I've got relatively small hands.

The test rider video suggested that the tip of the thumb was the only way to push on the button. It's not.

[oldpotatoe]

I went from being a long time Shimano devotee to campy and I really like campy. Most of the reasons have been mentioned here - I guess what I notice the most is that it the most confident shift under load. While Shimano is butterry smooth and quiet - there was something about shifting it under load where it seemed like the behavior changed a little. Campy is solid all the way around - I also think the stuff wears far better than anything else.

For those of us in the trenches of LBS', far better than sram. I am tired of swapping red BBs and pulleys after a few rides in the rain. PLUS their FD function is poor, crappy. Too much attention on frogs and giving stuff away for free. Sponsorship department obviously has the biggest budget. Tired of having some person with a 3/4th hand association with something vaguely 'bicycle' come in with a Recd group that he paid $800 for.

Great customer service. If something breaks(and a lot of sram stuff breaks, road and MTB shifters, avid brakes, avid mechainical disc calipers), they will send another one for free w/o even wanting the old one back.." need that crank with the bearing frozen on it? Naw, just throw it away"...

I guess they should be applauded for designing a lever they didn't get sued over but for this little bike shop, they are a distant 3rd on the hit parade.

[Likes2ridefar]

I've put a ton of miles on all three groups.

Personally, I don't like the thumb shifter. So that eliminates campy, for the most part, since it doesn't play well with Shimano and SRAM.

I prefer a blend of SRAM and Shimano to make things function ideally for me.

I use a Dura-Ace 7800 front derailleur because I think it's significantly better shifting than any SRAM FD I've used. I use 7900 cranks because it shifts way better than any crankset I've used from SRAM, campy, or boutique brands.

I use TRP R960 and 970SL brakes because I'm a weight weenie and they function nearly as well as the big three top end brakes and weigh about a 1/4lb less.

I use SRAM Force '10 for the RD, shifters, and cassette although I have both Shimano and SRAM Red cassettes on various wheels.

I'm pretty surprised by some of the comments here regarding various groupsets. In my experience, all three companies top end lines function great.

[fourflys]

I've put a ton of miles on all three groups.

Personally, I don't like the thumb shifter. So that eliminates campy, for the most part, since it doesn't play well with Shimano and SRAM.

I prefer a blend of SRAM and Shimano to make things function ideally for me.

I use a Dura-Ace 7800 front derailleur because I think it's significantly better shifting than any SRAM FD I've used. I use 7900 cranks because it shifts way better than any crankset I've used from SRAM, campy, or boutique brands.

I use TRP R960 and 970SL brakes because I'm a weight weenie and they function nearly as well as the big three top end brakes and weigh about a 1/4lb less.

I use SRAM Force '10 for the RD, shifters, and cassette although I have both Shimano and SRAM Red cassettes on various wheels.

I'm pretty surprised by some of the comments here regarding various groupsets. In my experience, all three companies top end lines function great.

This was the main initial reason I stayed away from SRAM... everything I read when I was researching this stuff said you had to substitute a Shimano this or that to make the SRAM work well for any length of time... I'm not saying all of it was true, but there was enough comments to make me go Shimano or Campy...

[R3KC]

You shouldn't believe all the second and third hand BS you read about any groups.

There is absolutely no need to substitute anything with SRAM but SRAM to make it function properly. I've set multiple bikes up with all sorts of mixing and matching going on and SRAM stuff works best with SRAM stuff....The Red FD always gets bagged on but works better then the 7800 FD I was using.

I've personally owned all three groups and each have their positives and negatives. I chose Red because of ergonomics and shifting performance and have not been disappointed.

Campy was the only group that I ever had any issues with stuff breaking. Probably not the norm but it was definitely problematic.

[jsfoster]

So Campy thumb shifting works for everyone without having to shift hand position? I disagree. Several others do as well. Would like to think not all of us belong in the "not the sharpest test subject" bucket, but hey, perhaps we do.

I have been riding a Force bike for a few weeks, the double tap is cool, BUT I am ALWAYS reaching with my thumb for a shift. It's in the muscle memory. The Campy thumb shift also seems to feel more stable to me. But after a decade and a half of thumbing, it is what I am used to. Which may be the answer, Get what you like and get used to it. Though, there will always be Campy :-)

[legacysti888]

I have been riding a Force bike for a few weeks, the double tap is cool, BUT I am ALWAYS reaching with my thumb for a shift. It's in the muscle memory. The Campy thumb shift also seems to feel more stable to me. But after a decade and a half of thumbing, it is what I am used to. Which may be the answer, Get what you like and get used to it. Though, there will always be Campy :-)

Excellent point.

If you are so used to Campy or Shimano, you are very familiar and intuitively comfortable with their performance, form and function.

Come SRAM road group in the last couple of years with a radical new design and BAM! Haters everywhere.. I suppose it is normal to be uncomfortable to change for some people.. If you are in your comfort zone, why change a good thing? I understand. No worries there!

I love change. It breathes new life and stirs the pot in an industry that has very few players (2 only in this decade, I think before SRAM road). Sram has made Campy and Shmano wake up and smell the Kona Coffee. :D

I gave RED time and seasons and have gotten used to the 3 Red groups I own that are on 3 different bikes and they are really, really good.

FWIW, I also have in my stable SR11, R10, DA7900 and Di2 and they all work extremely well.

It really comes down to personal preference. REALLY.

YMMV...

[Lovetoclimb]

I had a feeling SRAM was up to something for this race season. Looks like they finally are going public about their Huffy partnership!

see attachment . . . sshhhh!

[Lundbeck]

This must be the setup for paris roubaix, sweet breaking setup on the handlebar tops!

[fourflys]

You shouldn't believe all the second and third hand BS you read about any groups.
.

I certainly don't believe everything I read, but when there are a LOT of people saying the same thing AND you have first hand accounts from shop mechs like in this thread.... something must be up.

[R3KC]

I certainly don't believe everything I read, but when there are a LOT of people saying the same thing AND you have first hand accounts from shop mechs like in this thread.... something must be up.

What is a lot? 20 or 30 people with a negative experience who go on these forums and bash a product...better yet what percent? What about the tens of thousands with positive experience? Why continue to perpetuate negative things about a product you have no first hand experience with?

You know what they say about the squeaky wheel.

[fourflys]

What is a lot? 20 or 30 people with a negative experience who go on these forums and bash a product...better yet what percent? What about the tens of thousands with positive experience? Why continue to perpetuate negative things about a product you have no first hand experience with?

You know what they say about the squeaky wheel.

I just wasn't going to take the chance on things I researched and found negative feedback both on the web and from the local shops...

And, as I've stated above I'm glad I didn't as I don't like the way it shifts (after test riding on longer rides twice).. so it's a win-win for me...

I seriously doubt my opinion on SRAM is going to sway very many people... if it does, then I've got some land to sell them... ;)

[NRRider]

I've got relatively small hands.
That may explain the difference right there. I always wear XL or XXL gloves.
Of course now all the large-handed Campy fans are going to jump in....
Anyway, my experience was that it wasn't comfortable. As with everything else subjective, YMMV.

[legacysti888]

I just wasn't going to take the chance on things I researched and found negative feedback both on the web and from the local shops...

And, as I've stated above I'm glad I didn't as I don't like the way it shifts (after test riding on longer rides twice).. so it's a win-win for me...

I seriously doubt my opinion on SRAM is going to sway very many people... if it does, then I've got some land to sell them... ;)

Huh.

When I first tried Red, I was totally floored by how well it performed.
Zero loss. Instant shift. Dang.

I've also ridden bikes with Record 10 and 11, and 7900 that shifted horribly.
A very significant part of a great performing group is how it's put together.

At that time, I had Record 10s on most of my bikes.

I bought my first Red after the test ride. My LBS mechanic was absolutely blown away by it's shifting performance and he was also a Campy die hard.

He did say that one needs to be critical in the installation and shift calibration. Once that is done, the performance is effin awesome. If it's not installed right, it won't shift as well.

BTW, my mech rides Di2 now and has serious thoughts of dumping all Campy. If the cost of Di2 isn't so ridiculous, I'd do the same.

IMHO, if one didn't actually make the leap, stop bashing the product until you've owned it for at least a season and have gotten used to it before any fair comparisons be made. :beer:

Happy Friday and Ride! :D

[dookie]

anyone still reading?

i've been all campy all the time since 6s super record friction. hardly an early adopter, i still run 8s record w/dt shifters and my go-to bike is 9s ergo. no 10/11 campy in house.

got a red-drivetrain ride last year (mavic calipers, zipp crank). my first plastic bike...like i said, not an early adopter.

the lever ergonomics are *way* better for my L/XL glove hands...snapping up a series of gears with a knuckle while in the drops is sublime. upshifts (smaller cog) are very solid and satisfying. zero-loss cable pull is very nice as well...wow, does campy have some slop.

but after like 3k miles on the red bike, i still can't get the hang of double tap downshifts...as often as i get what i want, i get one the wrong way, or two the right way. i'm sure it would be different if i weren't on campy regularly. honestly, i have the same problem w/the dt's. being able to 'dump' a bunch of gears in either direction is a huge campy advantage. there is no 'two thumb mash' w/sram. hollowdome cassette is durable, and nothing but a resonance chamber...loud!

what else? um...the bike it's on is red, so it matches.

[fourflys]

IMHO, if one didn't actually make the leap, stop bashing the product until you've owned it for at least a season and have gotten used to it before any fair comparisons be made. :beer:

Happy Friday and Ride! :D

Dude, relax....

The OP asked for an opinion because he's looking for a new group and I gave him my experiences with what I've ridden, either on a test ride or owned...

Sorry to get your short hairs in a bunch, but that's my opinion and what I found in my research (as backed up by others including a mech...)

[fourflys]

the lever ergonomics are *way* better for my L/XL glove hands...snapping up a series of gears with a knuckle while in the drops is sublime. upshifts (smaller cog) are very solid and satisfying. zero-loss cable pull is very nice as well...wow, does campy have some slop.
.

Maybe that's where SRAM really shines is in racing... I don't race and I have smaller hands... :D

[legacysti888]

Dude, relax....

The OP asked for an opinion because he's looking for a new group and I gave him my experiences with what I've ridden, either on a test ride or owned...

Sorry to get your short hairs in a bunch, but that's my opinion and what I found in my research (as backed up by others including a mech...)


It's all cool and good, man.

Opinons are just that, opinions.

:beer:

[fourflys]

It's all cool and good, man.

Opinons are just that, opinions.

:beer:

so true...

no worries!

[Elefantino]

No one has mentioned, at least not thus far, the "chicks dig Campy" truism.

It's because it's Italian. Italian is sexy, like a Ferrari or Sophia Loren.

Shimano is Japanese, like Mr. Roboto.

SRAM is as American as either Coke or McDonald's, assuming Coke or McDonald's were made in Taiwan.

And don't think I'm kidding.

[norcalbiker]

No one has mentioned, at least not thus far, the "chicks dig Campy" truism.

It's because it's Italian. Italian is sexy, like a Ferrari or Sophia Loren.

Shimano is Japanese, like Mr. Roboto.

SRAM is as American as either Coke or McDonald's, assuming Coke or McDonald's were made in Taiwan.

And don't think I'm kidding.

I am soooo gonna get a campy. :D

[dookie]

I am soooo gonna get campy. :D

2x entendre?

[fourflys]

SRAM is as American as either Coke or McDonald's,
.


You have seen SuperSize Me, right? ;)

[fourflys]

Timely thread across the hall....

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/showthread.php?13747-Broken-SRAM-shifter

just sayin'.... (I'm sure there are Shimano and Campy threads like this as well)

[oldpotatoe]

Timely thread across the hall....

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/showthread.php?13747-Broken-SRAM-shifter

just sayin'.... (I'm sure there are Shimano and Campy threads like this as well)

I have warrantied more than a few sram shifters. They 'say' that you can repair them but a call to sram for parts and the answer is, I'll send ya new one' Good customer service but these 'issues' are undoubtedly not new to sram.

[toaster]

It's unanimous, Campy!

:beer: