Price for Dura-Ace & Mavic Open Pros

[Keith A]

An eBay auction recently ended and a set of Mavic Open Pros with 7700 series Dura-Ace hubs went for $515 plus shipping. I'm pretty sure you should be able to get a new set of these wheels with the latest Dura-Ace hubs for this price or less.

So what's the appeal of this wheelset? Is it the 7700 series hubs? Or is it the blue Open Pro rims which are no longer available?

Here's the auction link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150418172107&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_4512wt_1026).

[Pete Serotta]

I would bet the blue open pro rims got the price that high for they are no longer available from MAVIC


There was nothing special about 7700 hubs that I can see or feel.

[Tobias]

I would bet the blue open pro rims got the price that high for they are no longer available from MAVIC


There was nothing special about 7700 hubs that I can see or feel.
If in demand, why don't they make more?

[John M]

7700 hubs do have some nice features: Titanium freehub body doesn't get chewed up by cassettes, can accommodate 8,9,10 compatible cassettes (unlike the 10s only 7800 hubs). $515 for pair of wheels with OP (of any color) does seem steep, though.

[bfd]

If in demand, why don't they make more?

Actually, it appears that Mavic is slowly phasing out selling just rims and focusing its marketing on selling complete wheelsets. Why sell a rim at what $70-80 each when it can get $800-1000 or more for a complete wheelset? With a complete wheelset, that uses proprietary rims and spokes, you also pay more for replacements, so Mavic can get $100-200 for a rim and $10/spoke (versus $1 or less for a standard db spoke). What the alternative? Trash the fancy wheelset for another set?

Campy appears to be doing the same thing. Good Luck!

[RPS]

What the alternative? Trash the fancy wheelset for another set?

Campy appears to be doing the same thing. Good Luck!
That seems a little shortsighted to me because it assumes we would buy their wheels instead of going to a competitor for rims. What will keep us from buying Velocity or other rims and doing the same as with Open Pros? It would work if all rim manufacturers did the same but competition will hopefully keep it from happening.

[bfd]

That seems a little shortsighted to me because it assumes we would buy their wheels instead of going to a competitor for rims. What will keep us from buying Velocity or other rims and doing the same as with Open Pros? It would work if all rim manufacturers did the same but competition will hopefully keep it from happening.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to purchasing a complete wheelset from one company like Mavic or Campy. If you buy one of these boutiques, whether it be from Mavic, Campy or others, and it uses proprietary rims that cost $100-200 each or spokes that are $10+ each, and you need a replacement, what is the choice? Pay the exorbitant price for the replacement, part it out, or trash it!

I agree, build a wheelset using standard rims, spokes and hubs and you do have a choice. Recently, one of my open pros cracked around the spoke hole, after 20K miles, so I was had a couple of old MA2 rims hanging in my garage to replace it. The LBS also had a wide variety of rims from Velocity, Sun, Ambrosio and Mavic. Its good to have choice!

[Steevo]

A thread hijack question...

Does anyone out there have experience with both the Open Pro and the Velocity Aerohead and can comment on any differences between the two? Thanks.

[Pete Serotta]

From what I am told they just saw the color rims too much hassle for inventory and making. The regular open pro is still there as are ceramic. I would agree that the rim standalone market is not growing but it is still a good size market,



Actually, it appears that Mavic is slowly phasing out selling just rims and focusing its marketing on selling complete wheelsets. Why sell a rim at what $70-80 each when it can get $800-1000 or more for a complete wheelset? With a complete wheelset, that uses proprietary rims and spokes, you also pay more for replacements, so Mavic can get $100-200 for a rim and $10/spoke (versus $1 or less for a standard db spoke). What the alternative? Trash the fancy wheelset for another set?

Campy appears to be doing the same thing. Good Luck!

[cmg]

A thread hijack question...

Does anyone out there have experience with both the Open Pro and the Velocity Aerohead and can comment on any differences between the two? Thanks.

had a pair of wheelsets with the same hubs. the only difference is that the Velocity Aerohead rear had offset spoke holes. this is so they would build into stiffer wheels. did they? maybe. the aerohead set had sapim spokes while the OP had DT swiss so the Velocitys were slightly lighter. sold the OC first then the Velocity 2 seasons later.

[oldpotatoe]

7700 hubs do have some nice features: Titanium freehub body doesn't get chewed up by cassettes, can accommodate 8,9,10 compatible cassettes (unlike the 10s only 7800 hubs). $515 for pair of wheels with OP (of any color) does seem steep, though.


Considering that 7700 is now NOS, and really nice hubs, not steep at all, IMO. Considering 7850 hubs now are NOS as well but $235..7900 hubs are all that's available from distributors..$310.

7700 rear was $200 when new.

[RPS]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was referring to purchasing a complete wheelset from one company like Mavic or Campy. If you buy one of these boutiques, whether it be from Mavic, Campy or others, and it uses proprietary rims that cost $100-200 each or spokes that are $10+ each, and you need a replacement, what is the choice? Pay the exorbitant price for the replacement, part it out, or trash it!

I agree, build a wheelset using standard rims, spokes and hubs and you do have a choice. Recently, one of my open pros cracked around the spoke hole, after 20K miles, so I was had a couple of old MA2 rims hanging in my garage to replace it. The LBS also had a wide variety of rims from Velocity, Sun, Ambrosio and Mavic. Its good to have choice!
I understood you perfectly. I was the one who apparently wasn't clear.

I understand that if they discontinued selling rims in addition to complete wheels to concentrate on wheels only that they may make a greater profit margin, but my point is that I'm not sure they will make more profit because I don't think most who where buying rims will switch to buying wheels. In my opinion most will just buy someone else's rims. In the long run they will just have less business and hence less profits.

Campy is more like Shimano in that their primary business is not wheels. It would make little sense to me if they sold rims.

[Keith A]

Campy is more like Shimano in that their primary business is not wheels. It would make little sense to me if they sold rims.BTW, Campy did sell just rims at one time...I even had set laced to some Dura-Ace hubs :rolleyes:

[FL_MarkD]

A quick check on BWW for a new set of 28 radial, 32 3x Black OP on Dura Ace 7800 hubs with DT spokes is $578 plus shipping. So the eBay price doesn't seem too bad if the color was what they wanted.

Mark

[PaulE]

A thread hijack question...

Does anyone out there have experience with both the Open Pro and the Velocity Aerohead and can comment on any differences between the two? Thanks.

I have 3 sets of wheels with Open Pro CD rims and 2 sets of wheels with Velocity Aerohead and Aerohead OC rims. The Open Pro rims all have Ultegra 6500 or 6600 hubs and 32 - 3 cross Wheelsmith db spokes. One of the Velocity wheel sets has Dura Ace 7800/7850 hubs with 32 - 3 cross Sapim CX Ray spokes. The other set has White Industries hubs, 32 -3 cross db spokes, Sapim in front and DT in the rear. Some are lighter than the others but they all feel/ride about the same to my finely calibrated butt. On my Legend, I can barely feel the difference riding my Ksyium ES wheels in the summer vs my Open Pro Ultegra 6600 wheels in the winter. The Velocity rims are somewhat aero and do not use eyelets for the spoke holes but are holding up well. You can also use Velocity's spoke hole plugs with their rims. They claim they're lighter than rim tape, but not by much with 32 spokes.

[Keith A]

A quick check on BWW for a new set of 28 radial, 32 3x Black OP on Dura Ace 7800 hubs with DT spokes is $578 plus shipping. So the eBay price doesn't seem too bad if the color was what they wanted.

MarkI personally have avoided the 7800 rear hub for several reasons:
o they are only compatible with 10 speed cassettes
o the cassette hub body is not Ti (like the 7700, 7850 & 7900) but made of aluminum which doesn't hold up as well...

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/aluminum-body.jpg

[PaulE]

I personally have avoided the 7800 rear hub for several reasons:
o they are only compatible with 10 speed cassettes
o the cassette hub body is not Ti (like the 7700, 7850 & 7900) but made of aluminum which doesn't hold up as well...

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/images/aluminum-body.jpg

And in those 7800 and 7801 hubs, the ball bearings for the driveside of the axle are way inboard, in the hub, instead of the freehub. Kind of like the old freewheel days, but with 130 mm axle spacing and more dishing to accomodate 10 speeds. Combined with the aluminum freehub, it's like the worst of all worlds.

[Jeff N.]

Speakin' of blue open pros...anyone got a pair for sale? Jeff N.

[bfd]

And in those 7800 and 7801 hubs, the ball bearings for the driveside of the axle are way inboard, in the hub, instead of the freehub. Kind of like the old freewheel days, but with 130 mm axle spacing and more dishing to accomodate 10 speeds. Combined with the aluminum freehub, it's like the worst of all worlds.

I disagree in part. The DA 7800 and 7801 rear hubs with the inboard, right, drive-side bearings are not that bad. If you look at the expose diagram of both hubs and compare with a Campy Record (or Chorus/Centaur from 1999-2006), you'll see its very close, if not almost exact.

Further, despite the inboard bearings, you don't hear Campy rear hubs breaking. Why? The oversized axle. Both the DA 7800/7801 and the Campy rear hubs use oversize axles that basically eliminate broken axles that were common with freewheel hubs. Moreover, Phil freewheel hubs have inboard bearings and those don't break axles. Again, its the oversized axles that prevent it.

I do agree that aluminum freehub is not the way to go as those get beat up with use. Further, the 7800/7801 were not backwards compatible and only accepted 10 speed cassettes.

With the 7900 freehub, Shimano has gone back to outboard bearings on the right side and with a ti freehub, accept 8/9/10 cassettes. All is right with the universe once again....

[bfd]

BTW, Campy did sell just rims at one time...I even had set laced to some Dura-Ace hubs :rolleyes:

Agree. For all you youngsters, in 1987, Campy once offered a bunch of rims and had a rim catalog:

Scroll down here and you'll see Sigma, Delta, Omega, Lamda and Omicron rims:

http://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs/1987.html

One of my buddies had a Delta clincher rim - very nice polish!

Good Luck!

[khjr]

Agree. For all you youngsters, in 1987, Campy once offered a bunch of rims and had a rim catalog:

Scroll down here and you'll see Sigma, Delta, Omega, Lamda and Omicron rims:

http://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs/1987.html

One of my buddies had a Delta clincher rim - very nice polish!

Good Luck!

I used the Lamdas for my first wheel builds, and recall them as pretty nicely constructed, with socketed eyelets and a smooth rim joint. At the time, 1996, Excel Sports was blowing them out for $25 each.

[oldpotatoe]

A thread hijack question...

Does anyone out there have experience with both the Open Pro and the Velocity Aerohead and can comment on any differences between the two? Thanks.

Aeroheads are quite a bit lighter, as clincher rims go, so aren't as 'strong' as a OpenPro. For better comparison, a Mavic CXP-33 is a more similar rim and very close in weight to the OpenPro. BUT look at DT rims, the very best I have ever built with RR 1.1 double eyelet, 32h, spectaculor.

BUT built well, appropriate spoke gauge, number, ETC, all make fine wheelsets.

[William]

Agree. For all you youngsters, in 1987, Campy once offered a bunch of rims and had a rim catalog:

Scroll down here and you'll see Sigma, Delta, Omega, Lamda and Omicron rims:

http://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs/1987.html

One of my buddies had a Delta clincher rim - very nice polish!

Good Luck!

In the early to mid 90's I had a pair of Campy Omega-V's built up on DA hubs. They were nice, and one of the few rims that could consistently hold up to my Pseudo-Sprinter power riding. I wish they still offered them.




William

[Marcusaurelius]

Aeroheads are quite a bit lighter, as clincher rims go, so aren't as 'strong' as a OpenPro. For better comparison, a Mavic CXP-33 is a more similar rim and very close in weight to the OpenPro. BUT look at DT rims, the very best I have ever built with RR 1.1 double eyelet, 32h, spectaculor.

BUT built well, appropriate spoke gauge, number, ETC, all make fine wheelsets.


Well I have one pair one 32 hole velocity aerohead rims with campagnolo hubs and one pair with open pro. The aerohead feel better for me and I only weigh about 220lbs. I have a preference for stiff wheels and I suspect the offset aerohead rear rim helps a lot with rear wheel stiffness and builds a stronger rear wheel.

I did for a time use 36 hole campagnolo hubs because of the added stiffness but I've been very impressed with the 32 hole velocity aerohead.

I do remember using the campagnolo montreal rims years ago but campagnolo stopped making these and just about all hubs except black 32 hole record (silver looks so much better). Thankfully shimano still makes a lot of 32 and 36 hole hubs.