10/11 speed compatibility...

[Dave]

The thermometer finally hit 50 yesterday, so I ran out of excuses for not riding. I went out for the first time since late January. Got in a 40 miler with some real mountain climbing. With luck, I'll repeat that ride today and tomorrow.

I recently read of someone using a Campy 10 chain with their 11 speed drivetrain, so I put one of my moderately-used 10 speed chains on my winter bike that I've converted to 11 speed. I used the chain on the trainer for several hours, but never got a chance to use it on the road until yesterday. I was surprised at how well it worked - never missed a shift or skated on top of a cog. The crank that I have is a Chorus 11 model, but the FD is an '08 Chorus 10. The front shifting also worked well. My RD is an older Chorus 10, with my minor modification to increase it's actuation ratio to match the 11 speed RD.

If you do the worst-case calculation, there is only 6.0mm of space available for the chain (2.2 + 2.2 + 1.6), so using a 5.9mm chain doesn't seem too wise. The tightest fitting standard setup is a 5.9mm chain with Shimano cogs that still leaves .4mm of clearance. Campy 11 normally has .5mm of clearance for the chain to fit between the cogs on either side and Campy 10 has .65mm.

Don't take this as advice to use a 10 speed chain with an 11 speed drivetrain and ditch your 11 speed chains. Just know that it's possible, if needed.

[Pete Serotta]

thanks... I have a bike in now being converted to Record 11 from 10..... PETE

[Neelenose]

But if it goes south on you, you're likely to toast your rear changer, and who knows what else if you're at speed or in a tricky spot traffic wise. Be careful.

[Dave]

But if it goes south on you, you're likely to toast your rear changer, and who knows what else if you're at speed or in a tricky spot traffic wise. Be careful.

I've got no clue what's meant by that. What is it that would "go south"? If a chains is too wide to work with a cassette, it becomes obvious when it won't readily settle-down between the cogs. There's plenty of room for the chain in the RD cage. If a chian breaks, all sort of oither damage can occur, but there is not reason for this combo to break a chain.

A lot of people swore by using Shimano or SRAM 9 speed chains with Campy 10 speed, back when it first came out. I tried that years ago but got the occasional skating on top of a cog.

[oldpotatoe]

I've got no clue what's meant by that. What is it that would "go south"? If a chains is too wide to work with a cassette, it becomes obvious when it won't readily settle-down between the cogs. There's plenty of room for the chain in the RD cage. If a chian breaks, all sort of oither damage can occur, but there is not reason for this combo to break a chain.

A lot of people swore by using Shimano or SRAM 9 speed chains with Campy 10 speed, back when it first came out. I tried that years ago but got the occasional skating on top of a cog.

On another note, I just installed a 11s Chorus ERGO, cassette and chain onto an otherwise 10s 'system. FSA crank with ellyptical(sp?) rings, 2001 Record RD, tired but not cooked, same era FD and it works really well..for info to those that want to do a partial upgrade. Really like the lever shape.

[Neelenose]

I've got no clue what's meant by that. What is it that would "go south"? If a chains is too wide to work with a cassette, it becomes obvious when it won't readily settle-down between the cogs. There's plenty of room for the chain in the RD cage. If a chian breaks, all sort of oither damage can occur, but there is not reason for this combo to break a chain.

A lot of people swore by using Shimano or SRAM 9 speed chains with Campy 10 speed, back when it first came out. I tried that years ago but got the occasional skating on top of a cog.

Dave, I'm just saying to be careful using a combination like this. It may very well work great, and if it does I'd like to know. But we've all seen a lot of examples of chain jams causing changer wrap around and a twisted mess. I'd truly like to know more, so please share what you find. And while you're at it, test a 10 speed pin in an 11 speed chain!

[caleb]

Dave, I'm just saying to be careful using a combination like this. It may very well work great, and if it does I'd like to know. But we've all seen a lot of examples of chain jams causing changer wrap around and a twisted mess. I'd truly like to know more, so please share what you find. And while you're at it, test a 10 speed pin in an 11 speed chain!

Kinda depends on the "stakes" you're working with. If you're alone on a country road a skip isn't a problem. If you're elbow to elbow with 50 guys a skip can send people to the hospital. So, sometimes the risk is worth it and sometimes it's not.

Regarding the compatibility issue, one other thing I heard about was sticking a Shimano 10 wheel in a Campy 11 setup. I gave it a try the other day in the stand. With no adjustment all 10 cogs shifted (not great) with an extra click to spare (that would have gone into the spokes). Anyway, with some fiddling and a readjustment of the limit screws I think a Shimano 10 wheel would work decently in a Campy 11 setup. One more thing to keep in mind if someone here ever finds themselves in a pinch.

[Dave]

I did another 40 mile ride yesterday and had no problem. The 10 speed pin will not work in an 11 speed chain. You can buy a pin flaring tool from Park for only $40. A KMC missing link for a Campy 5.9 chain or a SRAM 10 powerlock can be used to join an 11 speed chain.

I've been redaing four bike forums for many years and I've honestly never read of a "chain jam". Broken chains, malfuctioning freewheel mechanisms,sure.