Seatpost and loctite help

[rustychisel]

Help needed, not mine, moron factor = quite high

Old steel Pinarello frame, alloy seatpost, loctite used to secure it (don't know what grade??). It's firm, it was done some time ago. Any help gratefully received on best ways to remove seatpost and save the frame, listed from least destructive to most destructive.

TIA

[dogdriver]

Good luck! I've had success using T-9 to free frozen bits (pedals and BB on the Pugsley after procrastinating the preemptive maintenance come to mind as the most notable successes), but none have involved LocTite.

Apply liberal doses of the solvent of your choice (chemistry majors please chime in) to include pouring it in from the BB upward and through the head tube to get it to travel through the TT to the TT/ST interface, wait several hours, place a strong friend at each end of the frame, attach the biggest pipe wrench you can locate to the seat post (hope you weren't planning on salvaging it), and turn gently. Wear safety goggles.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results... Chris

[shiftyfixedgear]

Heat the post gently with a propane torch - I believe most common Loctites start to soften @ 250 degrees Fahrenheit. I would clamp the top part of the post in a vise, heat the post gently, and use the frame as a lever and gently rock it back and forth while pulling. It might help to wrap the seat tube in rags and pour some boiling water on them (to heat the tube up along with the post).

I'm sure Loctite has a good website with detailed info about this. Even the strong grades such as the Red variety will soften with heat.

Come to think of it - a heat gun might work just as well as the propane torch.

Good Luck !

[Louis]

I Googled "remove loctite bolt" and got what you see below from e-how.com (sp?)

They say that the Loctite will melt at 400*F. That seems awfully high to me. You might not need to melt it to release the sp. Getting it soft might be enough.

As mentioned above, I would try the Loctite site.

-----------------------

Step 1 Attempt to remove the bolt first with the correctly sized end wrench or socket. Typically the blue strength sealant can be removed by this type of mechanical means.

Step 2 Use a handheld impact wrench or an air-powered impact if the bolt can be accessed with these types of tools. A sharp rotational force can break the bonds of the higher strength Loctite. Be careful that you don't shear off the bolt in the mating hole.

Step 3 Apply heat to the bolt's head with a propane torch. If the area is next to a flammable storage, such as a gas tank, you still might be able to use a heat gun. The red and green strength Loctite generally will need some type of heat applied, above 400 degrees Fahrenheit, in order to melt the cured sealant. A wrench or impact can be used immediately while the bolt is still hot.

Step 4 Use a high wattage soldering iron for smaller screws and bolts. Touch the tip of the soldering iron to the head of the screw and allow the heat to work into the area. Immediately remove the screw while still hot.

Step 5 Remove the entire part from the assembly in order to gain better access to the bolt or screw. This may be the best choice if the bolt is near a rubber seal or flammable location where any heat applied may cause an explosion.

[gdw]

and let them try the torch trick. Hopefully they'll let you watch as they overheat it. Take a camera so you can capture the mechanic's expression as he tries to remove the still stuck post. Try to catch the exact moment when it dawns on him that not only has he trashed the original paint but also destroyed the bond which held the seat tube and top tube in the lug.

[Louis]

Try to catch the exact moment when it dawns on him that not only has he trashed the original paint but also destroyed the bond which held the seat tube and top tube in the lug.

Could happen, but hopefully Loctite goes soft at a temp lower than the solder used in the brazed joint.

[gdw]

It has happened and is a classic LBS disaster story. A former shop mechanic who witnessed the event sometimes reads the forum and hopefully will spot this thread and contribute.

Just be careful with the torch, there might be more than just the loctite causing the seatpost to stick.

[AndrewS]

If the problem is really loctite, then solvents aren't going to help. Heat's about the only thing that will work.

I would be inclined to leave the seat on and use the heat gun on a low setting so it heats up slow and is less likely to burn the paint on the top of the frame. The seat should provide adequate leverage and allow the post to be saved, too.

In addition to that, you could flip the frame upside down and pour boiling water in the seat tube from the BB. I've heard before of boiling loctited parts to soften the loctite, and doing so here (in addition to the heat gun) might help distribute the heat further into the seattube than heating the exposed post alone could.


But please try the minimum steps before jumping to propane torches and bench vices.

[dogdriver]

A bud of mine is the Western Regional LocTite rep (I'm not kidding). PM me if you want me to talk to him about this...

Best, Chris

[fjaws]

Help needed, not mine, moron factor = quite high

Old steel Pinarello frame, alloy seatpost, loctite used to secure it (don't know what grade??). It's firm, it was done some time ago. Any help gratefully received on best ways to remove seatpost and save the frame, listed from least destructive to most destructive.

TIA


Locktite used on what? Just the bolt? Are you trying to loosen the correct side? Old steel frames (no seatpost clamp) have a bolt that looks like you could turn either side with an allen wrench. One side has a small tooth recessed in the frame to prevent it from turning. Are you turning the correct side? I would assume yes but you did say "Moron factor = quite high".

[Mike748]

Heat the area with a heat gun, might not hurt the paint.

Twist the seat post using the saddle for leverage to break the bond. Even better if you can apply the twist while heating. Once the bond starts to let go it will get easier to turn... once it turns start pulling.

[torquer]

Twist the seat post using the saddle for leverage to break the bond.
A usefull trick for increasing leverage is turning the frame upside down, standing on the front and back of the seat, and twisting the frame; you get a much bigger lever-arm that way.
You may want to replace your regular seat with a junker, since you may end up trashing it (scuffing the saddle top against the floor), but that's still going to be cheaper than the combined value of a frozen frame/post "module."

[rustychisel]

Locktite used on what? Just the bolt? Are you trying to loosen the correct side? Old steel frames (no seatpost clamp) have a bolt that looks like you could turn either side with an allen wrench. One side has a small tooth recessed in the frame to prevent it from turning. Are you turning the correct side? I would assume yes but you did say "Moron factor = quite high".


Fair point, I did say that. Frame is not mine, question is asked on behalf of someone else. From what was said I assume the seatpost was loctited into the frame to alleviate slipping, not the bolt. Which was why I said 'moron', as I have this thing about loctite being used as some kind of answer for poor engineering practise, though that's a whole other story.

Thanks

[fjaws]

From what was said I assume the seatpost was loctited into the frame to alleviate slipping, not the bolt.

Can honestly say I've never encountered this. Could've been worse...they could've used JB Weld. ;) Good luck!

[roydyates]

A usefull trick for increasing leverage is turning the frame upside down, standing on the front and back of the seat, and twisting the frame; you get a much bigger lever-arm that way.
You may want to replace your regular seat with a junker, since you may end up trashing it (scuffing the saddle top against the floor), but that's still going to be cheaper than the combined value of a frozen frame/post "module."

If you really want leverage, go to Lowes and get a pair of steel rods 3 feet long. Remove the seat and clamp the rods in place of the seat rails. Tighten the seat bolt as much as possible. Even better, make the rods be 1/16 larger in diameter than the seat rail diameter and tighten a stainless steel hose clamp around the seatpost clamp.

With a 2 foot lever arm, your leverage goes up by a factor of perhaps 6 over a seat that provides a 4 inch lever.