Coffee issues/poll

[Spicoli]

Hey, Gang
I need help here. I recently discovered I really really really like coffee. I would try it all the time and never really took to it. For some bizarre reason about a year ago I went to a DD to get a tea and the gave me coffee by mistake. So being at work and not having time to go back, I forced my self to drink it. Now I am crushing the stuff by the gallon. So the point is, What is your favorite brand/flavor real world cup o joe. Im not talking freaky stuff you have to smuggle into the country but easily obtainable coffee that is not $30 a pound? I cant help tthink of the scene in the movie Pulp Fiction when Tarantino gives his little speech on good coffee. The coffee rookie needs help pickin a fav. :beer: :help:

[MartyE]

Foofy designer crap here.
well not really.
Started with Starbucks, then moved to Peets.
Now buying fresh roasted (in small batches) Mocha Java
from Whole Foods. They have their own roaster and I
have the person behind the counter roast it for a little
longer than usual for a smoother cup.
I've heard of some people using an air popcorn popper
to roast their own, may have to try that.

Marty

[Rich_W]

Call me crude and domestic... but I buy my dunkin donuts by the pound... 2 lbs for $9.99 bucks with a coupon.

Either way, one cup gets me almost over-amped in the am (just ask boston drunk, he just recently witnessed one of my caffinated rants)... but I can't drink it any other time of the day... or it affects my sleep.

Then again... I stayed awake once for three days straight while following LeTour drinking that frenchie jet fuel loaded with 3 cubes of Sucré, sans milk.

[Too Tall]

O! Now we are talking. I adore the culture of coffee nearly as much as bicycles. I buy my beans all over the place. If beans have the right look, color and smell I buy regardless of label. Some of my best coffee comes from the local supermarket. Suggest you invest in a REAL burr grinder, it don't have to cost alot. This will allow you to grind from fine to course so that you can 'speriment with various grinds in various contraptions eg. an Italian mocha pot likes more coursely ground coffee vs. espresso machines.

I REFUSE to buy a nice espresso machine because the act of capturing a LIVE espresso made for me is part of the experience.

At home I use a very nice drip coffee pot for Sunday mornings. A mocha pot when I need a seriously strong cup at home and my all time fav. for flavor and pure taste is a glass Bodum press pot.

[Spicoli]

Foofy designer crap here.
well not really.
Started with Starbucks, then moved to Peets.
Now buying fresh roasted (in small batches) Mocha Java
from Whole Foods. They have their own roaster and I
have the person behind the counter roast it for a little
longer than usual for a smoother cup.
I've heard of some people using an air popcorn popper
to roast their own, may have to try that.

Marty
Im sorry Marty but that sound like way to much work and if I tried w/ my kids around it would be Iced coffee.

[Spicoli]

O! Now we are talking. I adore the culture of coffee nearly as much as bicycles. I buy my beans all over the place. If beans have the right look, color and smell I buy regardless of label. Some of my best coffee comes from the local supermarket. Suggest you invest in a REAL burr grinder, it don't have to cost alot. This will allow you to grind from fine to course so that you can 'speriment with various grinds in various contraptions eg. an Italian mocha pot likes more coursely ground coffee vs. espresso machines.

I REFUSE to buy a nice espresso machine because the act of capturing a LIVE espresso made for me is part of the experience.

At home I use a very nice drip coffee pot for Sunday mornings. A mocha pot when I need a seriously strong cup at home and my all time fav. for flavor and pure taste is a glass Bodum press pot.

The press pot is what got me started , until I dropped it and broke the beaker. So that actually makes this two question. What is your fav for the sunday drip and where can you get another beeker for the press?

[TimD]

I have become a slave to the bean.

Every route I choose somehow passes through the parking lot of the closest Peet's. If the line is long there's a Starbucks a quarter mile up the road.

TimD

[Kevan]

Dang, I loved my coffee, black and strong, and Plenty of it. But it was a fleeting relationship I had with the bean because I had to give it up for health reasons. No more java for me. Decaf you say??? What the hell's the point...

The good news is I got out of the racket well before the $3.00, or whatever, cup.

I still sniff opening cans though. :D

[93legendti]

I like Peets, Starbucks and Whole Foods' coffee. I think the best tasting is a stovetop espresso maker, followed by a French Press.

[Insight Driver]

My coffee habit consists of getting roasted beans in big bags so they are cheaper then using filtered water in my drip coffee maker. I happen to change flavors sporadically. I'm currently using a french roast bean, various brands, and right now using Starbucks (who cares about brand when the beans all come from the same trees < just my opinion).

I make a half pot every morning. One cup drunk at home, the other in a large mug I bring to work and drink in my office while checking mail and such.

This coffee drinking is primarily an American activity, I think.

[theprep]

You got to get a grinder first and buy only whole beans. It makes a huge difference. Mom got me a little Black and Decker for Xmas last year. I think they are less than $20.

DD is good, not the flavored ones though. When you buy a pound at Starbucks you get a free small cup. I like most of the Starbucks BOLD styles, not the House Blend though

cheers,
Bro

[93legendti]

Oh yesah...Starbucks' Gold Coast, Italian Roast and French Roast are very good bold flavored coffee beans..

[MartyE]

Second (or third) the Mocha pot.
I picked up a nice little electric one which
was on sale for less than $30.00
Bodum sells replacement beakers for their
presses, usually can find them in kitchen supply
stores.
I do buy whole beans and use burr grinder to grind
fresh for each pot (lots of rituals here, just like
gluing a tubular or building a wheel).

Spicoli, I'm not roasting my own yet, not sure that
I even want to.

Marty

[Ozz]

Maybe this will help...

http://www.coffeegeek.com/

One our our "flydhest's" recommendations....

For me, SBC, Millstone, or Torrefazione...whatever is on sale.....keep the beans whole in an airtight container (refrigerator, not freezer). Grind as needed. I use a blade grinder cuz it was cheap, fast, and clean.

I use a single serving Melitta drip cone for my work-day mornings. Starbucks Barista espresso machine for post-ride weekend cups (mocha sans whip). Sometimes I will pull out a french-press. I take a stove top espresso (moka) on camping trips.

[Ozz]

[QUOTE=This coffee drinking is primarily an American activity, I think.[/QUOTE]

Don't tell that to the French or Italians!

Best cup I ever remember having was at Madame Rousseau's (house owned by elderly women turned into inexpensive inn) in Beaune. Strong black coffee with hot milk....the sun was warm, mild hangover from a couple bottles of Bourgogne's best the night before... :beer:

[Spicoli]

Second (or third) the Mocha pot.
I picked up a nice little electric one which
was on sale for less than $30.00
Bodum sells replacement beakers for their
presses, usually can find them in kitchen supply
stores.
I do buy whole beans and use burr grinder to grind
fresh for each pot (lots of rituals here, just like
gluing a tubular or building a wheel).

Spicoli, I'm not roasting my own yet, not sure that
I even want to.

Marty
Thanks, Marty
I will get the press going again and sounds like a grinder is a must. My wife thinks we are a bunch of wash women, but you guy's are alright. Thanks for the help and keep the suggestions coming. Jeff ( Nobody does gas station coffee? )

[spiderman]

buy yourself a quality pump driven espresso maker...
buy a fresh quality roasted bean...or roast them yourself...
grind your beans daily
and drink espresso...if you must (and i do for my wife)
warm some half and half and add it to a couple shots of espresso...
...it's quicker, better and has more staying power
than any other method!
if you don't like that
you don't like coffee...
you're probably more into dishwater swill or
worse yet flavoring...
...never add flavoring to coffee...
drink it with dessert...
chocolate held loosely between your teeth
as you sip the crema from an espresso...
...ahhh,
coffee nirvana...
...pardon me...
i digress. :D
we need a green guy with coffee stains, please...

[93legendti]

Thanks, Marty
I will get the press going again and sounds like a grinder is a must. My wife thinks we are a bunch of wash women, but you guy's are alright. Thanks for the help and keep the suggestions coming. Jeff ( Nobody does gas station coffee? )


Every now and then I will have a "French Vanilla" from the local gas station...kind of a guilty pleasure.

[Bruce K]

Dunkin' Donuts on the road or at home (grind the beans as needed).

We just bought a new coffee maker that uses hot water and an insulated pot but no heating element under the carafe.

The coffee stays hot for several hours but does not continue to cook so no acid taste on that second (or third cup).

Yummmm.

BK

[Spicoli]

Every now and then I will have a "French Vanilla" from the local gas station...kind of a guilty pleasure.
AH HAH!!! I knew there would be one, actually two I hit the Exxon exit 63 LIExwy e/bound 24oz. W/Vanilla creamer for the candy junkie in all of us. :beer: :banana:

[Roy E. Munson]

In an act of complete laziness and stupidity, I once ground some of Mother Nature's finest herb in my coffee grinder. Every cup after that for a week tasted not quite coffee-ish! :crap:

[davids]

Peets! Purchased by the pound at their downtown store, and brewed at home every morning. Weekdays, in a itty-bitty gold-filter one-cup drip, and weekends in our current $25 drip coffee maker (the gold filter costs as much as the coffee maker, but lasts more than a year or two...) My personal favorite is the Sumatra, but they make lots of great blends. Significantly better than Starbucks, IMO - Less of that burned taste!

I don't like DD. I really don't like flavored coffees!

[RichMc]

Munson -- what were you thinking?? I'm not saying any more than that. :no:

I used to be semi fanatic but have had to cut way back in order to sleep better. Never went for the foo foo stuff at Starbucks or clones. Straight black for me. Italian roast is the best and then comes a French roast. 100% Kona is good too if made just right. Never could see the high dollar value of the Jamaican Blue Mountain.

I have found out though that by cutting back to one or two cups per week that when I do splurge on a big ride or race day that I've got that little extra boost going. Of course you do have to get rid of it before starting the ride if you can. If not, nature will take it's course anyway.

[Skrawny]

I don't like being addicted to anything (besides the bike), but I have given over to my coffee addiction. Worse is that I am so sensitive to caffeine that if I have more than two cups I vibrate in frequencies beyond normal human tolerance. I cannot have caffeine after 5 pm lest I stay awake until 5 am.

My drug of choice is freshly ground Peet's Coffee, "Major ****ason's Blend" (which I might add is Lance Armstrong’s favorite -he has it shipped to him in Europe). Peet's is to strong for many, however. If I have to I will partake in Starbucks. French press is the best way to go; I like the morning ritual of it all.

In North Vietnam this year I wass introduced to Vietnamese coffee...ZOIKS! Imagine equal parts coffee grounds and water. The stuff is like motor oil, but fantastic -one dose made my eyes cross. They frequently serve it with sweetened, condensed milk over ice, yummmm. There is also a delicacy out there whereby the beans are fed to a species of weasel, then . . . uh . . . recovered and ground. I didn't try this one. The image of a weasel hopped up on a diet of caffeine is almost as striking as the path the beans took to get to the table...
-s

PS-Name of the coffee above got "bleeped" because it containes a forbidden word, the coffee is Major D.i.c.k.a.s.o.n's Blend

[93legendti]

Oh yeah, Major D's from Peets is a great blend...almost done with my last bag of Major D's...time to reorder!

[Spicoli]

Oh yeah, Major D's from Peets is a great blend...almost done with my last bag of Major D's...time to reorder!
Who carries Peets? I never see it by me. :confused:

[93legendti]

Who carries Peets? I never see it by me. :confused:

My neither..I ordered from Peets' website.

[NicaDog]

Peet's. Pure French Roast. Back when I lived in Berkeley and raced for Berkeley Bicycle Club Peet's was a sponsor. Nothing better than a riding up to a shop and getting a free cup of good Joe before a ride up the hills. Bicycle's and Coffee - what could be better?

Still mail order it all these years later. :banana:

[Skrawny]

Peet's started in Berkeley, as opposed to Starbucks from up North, so there is a little bit of local pride in the whole issue. The coffee is rich and they have good teas, but the distribution is not as big as Starbucks. While working on the East Coast, I got it via the website:

www.peets.com

[William]

He got me two pounds of some kicking Espresso beans from Intelligesta (sp?). THAT was some good coffee.

Feel the burn Marco, feel the burn. :D

William

[flydhest]

www.coffeegeek.com
is indeed a great place to start.

I almost never buy coffee out. There are a select few coffee shops that are worth it, in my opinion. I'll often have coffee elsewhere if I'm out on a ride, but that's about it. If you're in the D.C. area try Murky Coffee either on Capitol Hill or in Arlington. http://www.murkycoffee.com/

Maybe Shino can give a shout out for Stumptown in Portland. They kick booty. Those of you in the Chi-town area have got to try Intelligentsia. The mailorder as well http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/

I personally can't stand Starbucks. Their coffee isn't very good in my view. Most of their stuff is over-roasted. Peet's is the only big commercial roaster that I think does a good job of a dark roast. Starbuck's espresso drinks now uniformly disappoints me. They use "superautomatic" machines and they just don't do espresso that well. Of course, drown it in 20 ounces of hot milk and how could you tell, right?

For me, I have an espresso machine at home, with a good burr grinder. I roast my own beans. www.sweetmarias.com is a good place to learn more about home roasting. It can be borderline painless, low cost, low time, and yet once you start drinking fresh coffee, that is to say roasted within 3-5 days, it's hard to go back. I have a drip machine and a french press in the office with a burr grinder. I bring in my roasts from home. I think if I were to drink anything other than espresso at home, I'd use my french press exclusively.

Mocha pots or stove top espresso machines are fine, but they overheat the water (most coffees have an optimal extraction temp of about 200-202 F) and don't get the "crema" you get with a real espresso.

Anytime I see coffee with a "best before" date that includes a year (let alone month) I'm scared.

[davids]

Who carries Peets? I never see it by me. :confused:
I was introduced to Peets by a friend in DC, who had grown up in CA. She mail-ordered it, and got me started doing that, too. Eventually, Peets opened a few shops in Boston. There seem to be a few on Long Island...

My two best cups of coffee ever? The first was plain ol' after-dinner cup of Joe. But it was in Kona. I think the beans had emerged from the roaster a few minutes before they were brewed! The second was at the grand opening of the Peets in downtown Boston. Brand new equipment made the difference, I think. And the best part - It was free!

[Too Tall]

First, let's agree that SuperFly has the BEST coffee anywhere :)

Sunday pot-o-coffee that me and Queen polish off before we ride was a nice dark roasted french roast from a local roaster called Quatermaine's. A little spicey, oily and when brewed rigght you could almost chew it!!!!

D***d you want to talk about rocket fuel???? In the summer of 76' I was wandering in the Negev desert (no I'm not making this up) whacked on some purple plant. For a few days I was living under this palm tree and snorkeling during the day. In the evenings I was hanging with nomadic bedouins who were really friendly types and we'd sit n' toke and sip their boiled coffee. Oh man, the stars....... Where is my plausible deniability?

[Skrawny]

(sorry to name drop, but this makes it a little less OT)
Freddie Rodriguez came by the LBS (City Cycle) to tout his new brand of coffee. It was pretty good, but I couldn't have much because they didn't have decaf and it was nighttime.

http://www.fredrodriguez.com/boutique/coffee.html

Made me think. Caffeine is a pretty good drug and not illegal on the sports circuit. It may dehydrate a little, but it's also a stimulant that improves concentration and increases mobilization of free fatty acids (rather than glucose) for aerobic respiration. It is certainly "better" performance enhancer than asthma medications (budesonide and formoterol) for which "former mountain bike world champion Roland Green of Victoria has been retroactively assessed a six-month suspension after testing positive for asthma medication in May, 2004." He had permission to use it, but let his paperwork lapse.
-s

[93legendti]

I was in the Negev in the summers from 1970-74. I avoided the purple plant, but drank some turkish coffee...muddy stuff :)

[Roy E. Munson]

Caffeine is a pretty good drug and not illegal on the sports circuit

I think it is illegal, actually.

[Skrawny]

Yer right, I guess it depends on which sport, and how much.

"The International Olympic Committee currently lists caffeine as a restricted drug. Urinary levels up to a concentration of12 mg/liter are acceptable, representing casual use. Levels above this are viewed as achieved through a deliberate attempt at doping by the athlete. Approximately 1000mg of caffeine (about 8 cups of coffee) would be required to exceed the current IOC limit, but it is very important to note that people can metabolize caffeine at very different rates. Differences in metabolism, medications, and certain diseases may significantly alter the rate in which caffeine is cleared from the body. Some athletes have come close to flunking the drug test after ingesting only 350mg. It is wise to consider this before using caffeine as an ergogenic aid."

-s

[Jeff N.]

As far as rides go, its coffee before and beer after. Jeff N.

[Marco]

TT:

Parallel experience in the Sinai: Dahab and Nueba. Wonderful Turkish/Beduin coffee that is known as "Mud" by the locals. We make a midwest version daily. Stop by sometime (when the ice fishing huts have been cleared off the lakes).

[flydhest]

TooTall,

You get a batch of fresh roasted the next time I see you. I want to hit you up to help me re-install a headset.

[Too Tall]

Marco, any local betting pools I can get in on? Serious man. I love betting on when ye ol ice house will fall in. You know I'm a MacAlester Alum?

Done deal Fly. I should be home Sun. after the crit. around 3ish.

[93legendti]

TT:

Parallel experience in the Sinai: Dahab and Nueba. Wonderful Turkish/Beduin coffee that is known as "Mud" by the locals. We make a midwest version daily. Stop by sometime (when the ice fishing huts have been cleared off the lakes).

Nueba, very pretty! I swear there was a fjord there, no?

[Marco]

93Legendti: Fjords?? I think you must have been doing the purple plants and none of the cofee. There is much beauty but you will be challenged to find fjords.

TT: I love this time of year cuz it is only a matter of time before the front page of the local paper will have a half submerged pickup truck that stayed out too long after the ice restrictions were put into effect for area lakes.

[shinomaster]

www.stumptowncoffee.com

[MartyE]

black for pure buzz.
Turkish coffee (or Greek) if you can stomach all
the sugar is a close second. Never had Bedouin
coffee but those purple plants. . . uh, wait I forget
what are we talking about?

The one thing about the Mocha I don't like is no
crema.
If I win the Lottery tonight I'm buying a Saeco machine
along with the Ottrott St. :D


Marty

[flydhest]

Marty,

For the money, I'd check out Gaggia instead of Saeco.

If you're willing to spend more (heck sell a bike or two :)) step up to an Expobar heat-exchanger and never look back.

The sad truth that most learn only after they witness it first hand is that a grinder matters more than most can believe. A $200 espresso machine with a $250 grinder is better than a $2000 espresso machine with a $50 grinder. It really is that simple.

[Lanny R. Levenson]

I agree that Starbuck's over roasts their coffee but when traveling, there's something to be said for consistency of product. Locally, we have a great coffee store that roasts coffee daily. I prefer Copenhagen blend (caffeinated or decaffeinated depending on the time of day). I use it in an espresso machine, the Nuova Simonelli Oscar.

Coffee definitely helps prepare for the ride and there's nothing like coffee and a post ride discussion with the group.

Lanny

[93legendti]

93Legendti: Fjords?? I think you must have been doing the purple plants and none of the cofee. There is much beauty but you will be challenged to find fjords.

TT: I love this time of year cuz it is only a matter of time before the front page of the local paper will have a half submerged pickup truck that stayed out too long after the ice restrictions were put into effect for area lakes.

http://www.atlastours.net/egypt/taba.html

http://www.egyptvoyager.com/towns_sinai_taba.htm


I know I saw a fjord...it was in Taba, thou not Nueba, sorry.

"Taba is situated right on the edge of the Israeli border, which can be crossed on foot. The town is a perfect excursion point for visits to the surrounding wonders, such as Pharaoh's Island.

The coastline in this area is the most picturesque in Sinai, with bays, coves, lagoons, a fjord and an island. Taba is a paradise of deluxe holiday resorts settled in a natural scenery not many places in the world can compete with. "

[Marco]

but I think of fjords as those things in Iceland, Greenland and Alaska. Whatever.

[MartyE]

Gaggia, huh?
Not too expensive if you don't mind pulling your own
shots and tamping your own.

What kind of grinder do you recommend? (already
have a burr) is there really a big difference in burr grinders?
Ok, so there is alot of difference (doncha love the internet) in
grinders, high speed, low speed reduction, low speed direct drive. .


Marty

[93legendti]

And you think of penguins in cold places, but they also have them in Eilat. :)

[bostondrunk]

Call me crude and domestic... but I buy my dunkin donuts by the pound... 2 lbs for $9.99 bucks with a coupon.

Either way, one cup gets me almost over-amped in the am (just ask boston drunk, he just recently witnessed one of my caffinated rants)... but I can't drink it any other time of the day... or it affects my sleep.

Then again... I stayed awake once for three days straight while following LeTour drinking that frenchie jet fuel loaded with 3 cubes of Sucré, sans milk.


Actually, the drunk is very fond of DD as well, and very fond of Tim Hortons, but that is damn hard to find in the US of A (last place I found one was either in Michigan or Ohio while on business, can't remember which...).

[93legendti]

Actually, the drunk is very fond of DD as well, and very fond of Tim Hortons, but that is damn hard to find in the US of A (last place I found one was either in Michigan or Ohio while on business, can't remember which...).

We have TH in Michigan. I can't go in them...bad memories from living in Ontario for 11 years. :)

[wheelworks]

Nueba, very pretty! I swear there was a fjord there, no?


No fjord but there is one heck of a climb heading out of the town southward..... straigh up!!! Last weekend was the Pinarello Grand Fondo ride to Sharm

[93legendti]

Read my last post...there is a fjord in Taba, just around the corner...seen it. I'll take the climbs to Arad, Hermon and Chanita... :D

[Brian Smith]

Never could see the high dollar value of the Jamaican Blue Mountain.

I have found out though that by cutting back to one or two cups per week that when I do splurge on a big ride or race day that I've got that little extra boost going. Of course you do have to get rid of it before starting the ride if you can. If not, nature will take it's course anyway.

I never enjoyed that bean until last week - it should be roasted darker than typical south american stuff! Wow, a surprising difference!

Alas, for me, I can't resist the idea of coffee before/during riding being a good idea, but am too honest with myself to have found a benefit therein.

I'll find the link to the roaster of the bean I sampled if you like...

[Brian Smith]

Marty,

The sad truth that most learn only after they witness it first hand is that a grinder matters more than most can believe. A $200 espresso machine with a $250 grinder is better than a $2000 espresso machine with a $50 grinder. It really is that simple.

I definitely find that the grind is extremely important for the best press as well....but can't find a grinder truly worthy! None of the burr ginders I've tried can produce a large enough particle size. Mud free's the way to be!

[Bill Bove]

I have taken to brewing Jittery Joe's team flavor a bit on the strong side and pouring it piping hot over a healthy scoop of Bryers Vanilla Bean ice cream. Hmm, you get that hot/cold, bitter/sweet, black/white thing going on and both major food groups are represented. Something to eat and something to drink. Life is good.

[93legendti]

I have taken to brewing Jittery Joe's team flavor a bit on the strong side and pouring it piping hot over a healthy scoop of Bryers Vanilla Bean ice cream. Hmm, you get that hot/cold, bitter/sweet, black/white thing going on and both major food groups are represented. Something to eat and something to drink. Life is good.


I do the same sometimes...I discovered Breyers 2% vanilla ice cream....outstanding in espresso!

[mdeeds71]

Spicoli,
My father has a roasting company in Louisville Ky actually Flyod's Knob, IN...He does all different types and will ship...I do not have the number since my cell phone broke...but it is listed as Hobknob Roasting Company.

Owners name is Larry or his wife Barb

Give him a call...

[csb]

SOUTH POLE

[93legendti]

Sometimes I like Nescafe instant coffee...heresy, I know.

[oracle]

a fjord is not just any narrow bay flanked by cliffs; they are the products of glaciation.

[93legendti]

Read the links I posted above. I saw it --Salah ed-Din’s Fjord is near Taba.

"fjord
Dictionaryfjord or fiord (fyôrd, fyōrd)
n.
A long, narrow, deep inlet of the sea between steep slopes.

[Norwegian, from Old Norse fjördhr.]"

[oracle]

fjord
fiord
noun
1. A long narrow steep-sided inlet of the sea in a mountainous coast, eg in Norway, Greenland or New Zealand, formed by the flooding of a previously glaciated valley.
Etymology: 17c: Norwegian, from Norse fjörthr.

[93legendti]

http://www.egyptianexperience.co.uk/Egypt%20Guide.htm

Maybe you should take up your objection with the Egyptians. If you have been to Taba, you know there is a place called Salah ed-Din’s Fjord. I have seen it...have you been to Taba?

" Salah ed-Din’s Fjord a fascinating inlet its water has an incredible turquoise colour which you reach on the road from Nuweiba to Taba."

[Spicoli]

Alright maniacs,easy. Since I started this freakshow I am going to try and keep the peace. IT IS ABOUT COFFEE! If you are rem-en-iss-ing about some freaked out coffee (yeah sure coffee) you drank while on some fandango in hippie land, thats awesome but keep in mind details get blurred, when on fandango's in hippie land so be nice it's not a courtroom. :no:

PS the names of these hippies and freaks depicted on this forum have been changed to protect the innocent. :butt: :D

PSPS If you are offended that I called you a hippie than I'll call you a freak and if you are upset I called you a freak then sorry hippie.

[oracle]

yes, i've travelled much of the sinai for years and never seen a fjord. the word is frequently mis-applied to narrow coastal inlets that do not owe thier origins to glaciation.

[93legendti]

yes, i've travelled much of the sinai for years and never seen a fjord. the word is frequently mis-applied to narrow coastal inlets that do not owe thier origins to glaciation.


Pity you missed it.

[oracle]

i've been there; it's just not a fjord.

[93legendti]

Yes sir, around you I won't refer to Salah ed-Din’s Fjord as a fjord!

[george]

I love coffee, but do not own a coffe maker. I make one of three at home: :)

1. greek/turkish coffee:very fine ground brewed with water and sugar in a briki (a small copper pot with a long handle.
2. ice frappe: Nestle Nescafe Clasico, sugar, a little water, and ice shaken in a martini shaker poured into a glass then fill with cool water and add cream to taste.
3. Esspresso, or any type of esspresso dirived products. I brought the starbucks "barista" esspresso machine for $400 way back in 1998 still works great, I also have a seperate grinder

I work in a restaraunt so to continue my caffine habbit it is esspresso or our house blend coffee

[Too Tall]

I don't mind being called a Hippee....just not late for dinner.

The not too expensive Burr grinder that changed the way I drink coffee is:http://www.caffetucano.com/lapavpaburgr.html It is ridiculously good for the low cost. You can not grind big batches however it will easily grind enough for a 12 cup pot.

My sister gave us these funny demitasse cups last yr.
http://www.1st-line.net/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=FacesDemi

[Russell]

I get my coffee from a local roaster and grind them as I need them. Get a decent burr grinder and use the freshest beans you can find. It is worth the effort.

[flydhest]

I definitely find that the grind is extremely important for the best press as well....but can't find a grinder truly worthy! None of the burr ginders I've tried can produce a large enough particle size. Mud free's the way to be!
http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/home/grinders/mistroplus

Here's a grinder that lots of folk on coffeegeek like. Not cheap, but will be an even grind. That's what matters. For espresso, you want fine and even, for French press, you want coarse and even.

No dust and boulders.

Oracle,

Be careful of contradicting him. You should see the list of bicycles he can come up with.

[csb]

penguins may dream of the north pole,
but their postal address(s) is: south pole.

[davids]

In North Vietnam this year I wass introduced to Vietnamese coffee...ZOIKS! Imagine equal parts coffee grounds and water. The stuff is like motor oil, but fantastic -one dose made my eyes cross. They frequently serve it with sweetened, condensed milk over ice, yummmm. There is also a delicacy out there whereby the beans are fed to a species of weasel, then . . . uh . . . recovered and ground. I didn't try this one. The image of a weasel hopped up on a diet of caffeine is almost as striking as the path the beans took to get to the table...
I live in the heart of Boston's Vietnamese community - More great Pho than you can shake a stick at! - and Skrawny speaks the truth about their brew. The flavors are almost painfully intense. A thimbleful will wire you up!

Now the weasel trick, that's one I haven't heard of... Over-caffinated weasels; truth is clearly stranger than fiction.

[flydhest]

The weasels are civets. The coffee is called Kopi Luwak. All coffee has to be processed before it can be used. Coffee "beans" are actually the seed inside the fruit of the plant. The "cherry" as its called, has an outer layer of skin with pulp inside and the seed at the core. Traditional "dry processing" involves laying the cherries in the sun until dry and then working off the dried skin and pulp. The Kopi Luwak coffee achieves this through the civets' digestion of the fruit and the seed (bean) comes out the end. I'm sure it started as a hazing ritual for a civet university fraternity or something. Showing corn is one thing, showing bean . . . wow.

[93legendti]

penguins may dream of the north pole,
but their postal address(s) is: south pole.

OK, go to Eilat, Israel. Go to the Dolphin Reef there, it is owned by my wife's uncle. Ask about the Penguins he has there. And look, they have them in Africa, Argentina, Chile, the Falkland Islands, southern Australia, New Zealand and the Galapagos Islands as well:


"BLACK-FOOTED PENGUIN
(Spheniscus demersus)
Description: All penguins are aquatic, that is they often are found in water, and are flightless. They are found in a variety of climates ranging from Antarctica to the warm Galapagos Islands located at the equator. There are eighteen species of penguins recognized in the world, the Black-footed Penguins are the only ones found in warm southern and southwestern Africa. The Black-footed Penguin is the only species indigenous to Africa, breeding on twenty-four offshore islands. "

http://www.graphicpenguin.com/onice/penguin.html
http://www.hensonrobinsonzoo.org/n001.html
http://www.edhelper.com/AnimalReadingComprehension_217_1.html

What's next, you'll say there is snow in Israel? :)

http://www.geocities.com/jelbaum/JlmSnow.html

[SGP]

Actually, the drunk is very fond of DD as well, and very fond of Tim Hortons, but that is damn hard to find in the US of A (last place I found one was either in Michigan or Ohio while on business, can't remember which...).

Tim Hortons are spreading like a virus, they've built three in a 45 mile radius in the last year, here in western NY. But, then we get Canandian coin as change from stores all the time.

Loved TH at the Worlds in Hamilton, we set up camp about a block from one, right before the climb. When ever our kids got bored they could walk over there, get a really small sandwich and never leave our sight.

[MartyE]

Fjord has a better idea?

I bought a mid priced high speed burr grinder, for most
of what I brew its fine (no pun intended) since I use
either Bodum or Mocha.

Marty

[mike p]

One of my simple but great pleasures in life is an early morning coffee(something strong) or espresso with your favorite robusto(La Gloria Cubana or El Rey Del Mundo). Nothing like a warm summer morning in the garden with the paper, coffee, and robusto to start your day out or end it properly.

[Too Tall]

SuperFly - my birthday is in April :Cheesey Gin:

That's got to be some sort of Hunter Thompson (G-d rest his twisted soul) trick. Kopi Luwak is not REALLY pooped out the fanny of some civit, presumably cleaned, roasted and served???? Commmmongimmeabreak.

Snow in Israel? And skiiing too. Think 10th Mtn. division. Woo woo. In HS I spent a summer picking citrus, swooning over Dutch girls and ducking bullets in the Golan heights.

[Russell]

www.coffeegeek.com
is indeed a great place to start.

I almost never buy coffee out. There are a select few coffee shops that are worth it, in my opinion. I'll often have coffee elsewhere if I'm out on a ride, but that's about it. If you're in the D.C. area try Murky Coffee either on Capitol Hill or in Arlington...

Mayorga in Silver Spring roasts their own coffee. It is a pretty cool place to hang out and drink (coffee, alcohol, etc) and listen to live music. They have other spots in MD and at stand at the Sibley Hospital. You can even get their beans at Costco, though not as fresh and going straight to the store.

http://www.mayorgacoffee.com/index.html

[Too Tall]

OOoo. Russell, I dig Mayorga coffee and their cafe is super place to relax unwind. They have some good blends fer sher.

[flydhest]

TT, Russell,

The month of April is now marked on my calendar. We should do a ride from Bethesda at Mayorga down to Capitol Hill to Murky. I think it will be evident how much Murky kicks booty. Nick, the guy who owns it, is awesome. I was in the Mayorga in Bethesda a week or two ago and I got a cappucino that was like 10 or more ounces. That is NOT a capp! That is a monstrosity. The shot of espresso took on the order of 45 to50 seconds to pull. Much, much too long an extraction. The bitterness showed through.

Mayorga does their roasting at a facility up in Rockville. Their coffees designed for drip, etc. are pretty good, but their espresso blends are inconsistent.

The ambience is great, though. I've spent some time in their Silver Spring shop (espresso was better) as well.

[Marco]

Does anybody have any experience with the Solis Maestro Plus burr grinder. The local purveyor of all things coffee/expresso recomends it for home use.

[Skrawny]

It's amazing what I learn on the Serotta Forum. :beer:
-s

[BURCH]

I like Euro coffee and will go for espresso, latte, or a nice cappucino.

I was lucky enough to work and ride in and around Rome after college and you will find that most Italians use an stovetop espresso maker like this in their homes:

http://www.bialettiusa.com/bialetti/

There is very little fuss, its cheap, it takes up no room, and you get a great espresso or cappucino (if you get one of those aerolatte frothers).

I usually buy Lilly brand, it comes in a neat metal can, but any favorite espresso bean or grind will work.

The bialetti is also great on camping trips!

[93legendti]

I like Euro coffee and will go for espresso, latte, or a nice cappucino.

I was lucky enough to work and ride in and around Rome after college and you will find that most Italians use an stovetop espresso maker like this in their homes:

http://www.bialettiusa.com/bialetti/

There is very little fuss, its cheap, it takes up no room, and you get a great espresso or cappucino (if you get one of those aerolatte frothers).

I usually buy Lilly brand, it comes in a neat metal can, but any favorite espresso bean or grind will work.

The bialetti is also great on camping trips!

I have one of those, they work great. I just have to replace the O-ring every now and then because it degrades with time.

[Too Tall]

Make it so :) Yeah, I was talking about the nice couches etc. at the Silver Spring spot. Mayorga's roasting operation fouls my air on a regular basis as we live just on the other side of RR tracks. It's not a good smell.

[Russell]

TT, Russell,

The month of April is now marked on my calendar. We should do a ride from Bethesda at Mayorga down to Capitol Hill to Murky. I think it will be evident how much Murky kicks booty....

If Murky is that much better than Mayorga than I have to try it.

[SGP]

7 pages on coffee :rolleyes:

[Russell]

I like Euro coffee and will go for espresso, latte, or a nice cappucino.

I was lucky enough to work and ride in and around Rome after college and you will find that most Italians use an stovetop espresso maker like this in their homes:

http://www.bialettiusa.com/bialetti/

There is very little fuss, its cheap, it takes up no room, and you get a great espresso or cappucino (if you get one of those aerolatte frothers).

I usually buy Lilly brand, it comes in a neat metal can, but any favorite espresso bean or grind will work.

The bialetti is also great on camping trips!

Whenever my wife and I visit her friends and relatives in Italy that is the type they all use. The only time I saw an expensive espresso machine in someone's home was an American who moved there.

[csb]

... and the north pole is where?

[Ozz]

The bialetti is also great on camping trips!
Yep! That's the one I take....simple easy to clean...makes great coffee!

[Ozz]

www.scaa.org
Specialty Coffee Association of America

I might have to check this out... :beer:

[Too Tall]

Who PM'd me with info. on Caffe' D'arte's Alderwood roasted beans...the particular roast was "Velletri".

I ordered this about 5 months ago and lost the info. Wonderful wonderful smokey flavor.

Whoever posted this pls. tell me again as I found the website and seem to recall they used to have PayPal and now do not so I'm not certain this is the right place. http://www.caffedarte.com/alderwood.html

Thanks.

[Roy E. Munson]

TT - that's the place. I am not aware of them dumping PayPal as a payment method, but it's entirely possible.

[Too Tall]

Thanks my friend. I'm really fortunate as one of my new employees is a coffeeholic and we are starting to share roasts. This guy rivals Fly in his knowledge. Mmm, coffee.

[zap]

TT-did we ever tell you about that roaster up in Rockville?

[William]

:D

William

[spiderlake]

http://www.fredrodriguez.com/boutique/coffee.html

I think someone else posted the link but just in case.... I got a 12oz package of his Turbo Blend as a gift this past spring and really enjoyed it.

I didn't see anyone mention Caribou Coffee. Maybe it is a midwest thing but I like their coffee when I have the occassion to be near a store (Chicago and Detroit for me).

Did anyone ever fall into the Gevalia trap?? I fell for the free coffee maker and always forgot to call and cancel my subscription. I drank Gevalia coffee for a year after I canceled! : )

[Spinsistah]

We like Peets and we also buy Millstone. Starbucks is overrated. Get whole beans - make sure they're FRESH, dried out coffee beans taste like crap - and grind them yourself, makes much better coffee. We have a burr grinder, an espresso machine and coffee maker. Guess we like coffee too.

[William]

I didn't see anyone mention Caribou Coffee. Maybe it is a midwest thing but I like their coffee when I have the occassion to be near a store (Chicago and Detroit for me).



Had some when I took a stroll through the Mall of America. Good coffee, strange experience.


William

[Marco]

Caribou Coffee was a one shop business and for $2,000 you could purchase an unlimited supply of lifetime drinks. They were pretty good back then. Now they are corporate. I have worked in two downtown building since 1991, each of which has a Caribou and never make a purchase. I just have a problem with burnt coffee that is served in an environment that has been branded to look like a north woods cabin and where extra shots of expresso are now referred to as "moosing it".

By the way- if the coffee was good I wouldn't be bothered by the "moosing it" shenanigans.

[spiderlake]

C'mon Marco - how do you really feel?? : )

I had no idea of the corporate history and to be honest, I didn't even notice the "backwoods" decor when I went in. I agree that "moosing it" just sounds foolish and I could never bring myself to use the term when asking for a triple shot. Do you know if that 2000 lifetime supply still stands?

Caribou Coffee was a one shop business and for $2,000 you could purchase an unlimited supply of lifetime drinks. They were pretty good back then. Now they are corporate. I have worked in two downtown building since 1991, each of which has a Caribou and never make a purchase. I just have a problem with burnt coffee that is served in an environment that has been branded to look like a north woods cabin and where extra shots of expresso are now referred to as "moosing it".

By the way- if the coffee was good I wouldn't be bothered by the "moosing it" shenanigans.

[Marco]

Sorry about the rant; jetlag has taken hold.

As far as I know, the $2,000 offer was only around for a short time and preceded their big growth stage. It was probably the early 1990's when it all happened.

My vote is for Intelligentsia Coffee that I learned about on this forum. I was just overseas (not Italy) and really liked some of the Italian stuff I was drinking that I am not used to seeing in the Twin Cities. Can't remember the names but they were really good.

[William]

Sorry about the rant; jetlag has taken hold.

My vote is for Intelligentsia Coffee that I learned about on this forum...

Marco turned me on to Intelligentsia. Very good. :beer:

Marco, you been training? :)

William

[spiderlake]

Marco - no worries about the rant. I found it quite funny and it probably explains a lot why Caribou hasn't been mentioned but twice since the beginning of this thread/poll.

Sorry about the rant; jetlag has taken hold.

As far as I know, the $2,000 offer was only around for a short time and preceded their big growth stage. It was probably the early 1990's when it all happened.

My vote is for Intelligentsia Coffee that I learned about on this forum. I was just overseas (not Italy) and really liked some of the Italian stuff I was drinking that I am not used to seeing in the Twin Cities. Can't remember the names but they were really good.

[Too Tall]

Bwaaahahahah, Willy where did you get the pic. of my Dad???
Zap, NO you keep all the good stuff to yourself!!! Details.
Marco - The Caribou where for two yrs. I was FORCED to buy my AM wake up has this trivia game and give a discount of an whole .10 Anyway, the .10 off gave me the correct change for the Washington Post so ...what was my point??? Hmm, need more coffee. Oh yeah, I remember...their coffee suks. but it's not awful. The fake stuffed moosehead needs a new home fer sher.

Somebody post a recipe for the ultimate coffee cake.

Anyone ever grind whole Cardimon seeds with their beans? It is esp. good for boiled coffee such as Turkish style. All the ground coffee I bought when I was living in the Middle East came this way unless you asked them to leave it out. Yummy.

[William]

By the way- if the coffee was good I wouldn't be bothered by the "moosing it" shenanigans.

The Caribou Coffee espresso I had was ok. But then again, maybe they just had a particularly good Bear-ista working that day. (Groan :rolleyes: )

William

[William]

Bwaaahahahah, Willy where did you get the pic. of my Dad???
.

A Coffee Joke website. It was all pretty lame except for the picture. It had me LOL! :D

William

[Marco]

TooTall- Its Coffee with hhell and when you drink it in the shuk it is really good. Ahhhhh.....the memories.

William- I have been out of ANY training for 6 weeks and any meaningful stuff for about 90 days. Life gets in the way. Hoping for a strong balance of the summer/fall. Call next time you are coming this way my friend :)

[William]

TooTall- Its Coffee with hhell and when you drink it in the shuk it is really good. Ahhhhh.....the memories.

William- I have been out of ANY training for 6 weeks and any meaningful stuff for about 90 days. Life gets in the way. Hoping for a strong balance of the summer/fall. Call next time you are coming this way my friend :)

Will do. Looking at some classes for 4th Shift in August/September. They are located in good O'le Minneapolis.

William :)

[Fixed]

Try and carry 4 cups of coffee 8 blocks on a bike it's very hard.

[PBWrench]

Dunn Bros in Mpls is fresh roasted and pretty darn good -- but save room for their granitas after the hot rides - eh, Marco? Never saw a fjord in the Sinai just a lot of Subarus. A cup of Euro Nescafe instant always beats the cheap brewed junk we serve at my office. I'm completely addicted to caffeine and manage to down about 8 cups of Joe a day. Fasting on YK with no coffee-drug is truly an otherworldy experience for me. Brings me closer to G-d. Sort of. By the way G-d drinks Peets.

[Marron]

My espresso jones is, if anything, worse than my cycling obsession.

Equipmentwise I have a Rancillio Rocky grinder and Silvia espresso machine. This enables me to start obsessing about my ability to master a tricky mechanical process with significant organic elements (me and the beans) at 4:45 in the morning.

Beanwise, I have been a fan of the Good Coffee Company here in Seattle since the early 80's. Their espresso roast is amazing.

I was listening to NPR while driving at noontime today and there was a piece on golf and politicians. The commentator mentioned a quote I had heard before about the middle aged guy who asks a golfing friend about taking up the sport. His friend advises him to start shooting heroin instead; it's cheaper and less addictive. I kind of feel the same way about bikes and coffee.

[Ozz]

Try and carry 4 cups of coffee 8 blocks on a bike it's very hard.
If you ever make your way to Seattle....try Monorail Espresso....it's where all the bike messengers hang out. When it's raining, they hang out in the lobby of my office building. ;)

[Too Tall]

Marron, you set the bar man. I bow my head with great respect and genuflec genuflec genuflec....in your general direction. But, quite frankly I need to clear it with the Pontif.

Marco - Yeah you are right, it's (spit)Huh-ell But who'd know? The rythm pace and ritual of sharing a cup-a-cup with them a-rabs is something I miss. Nobody seemed in a hurry back than and I loved how the shop keeps and locals talked even slower than Texicans on a hot day. Sittin in the old city, bubblybubbly on slow simmer and a nice cup of death mud....long game of sheshbesh (cough) I mean Backgammon.....mmmmmmm.

How many ways do I love coffee, let me count them.

DOH!

*Almost 9 pages of coffee love*

[alembical]

One of the many reasons why I love Portland so.........STUMPTOWN........yummy to my tummy.

Alembical :)

[Dr. Doofus]

must confess

will drink any black swill

must be black

must be strong

...from having my pal tecle make ethiopian coffee in the kitchen for me with roasting the real ethiopian beans (and hearing a learned and fiery lecture on red vs green and how he got his beans fed ex'd by his bro in addis who drove to get this treat because according to tecle you can't get good coffee in addis, only crap) and making it in the clay pot...to early morning stops at waffle house and huddle house while driving from a gig to wherever I was going to sleep in the truck that night...to the nude truckstop on 95 outside fayetteville where the band I was out with for two weeks (I was openin for em) stopped with the two guitarists coked out of their minds and the drummer and I thanking every force in the universe for the peace and stability offered when a redneck chick in a g string puts a cup of chock full a nuts in front of you and you can just tune out the coke talk and smell coffffffeeeee

[Marco]

TooTall, a mere 24 hours ago. Your description is still accurate. The coffee is still good. And time is still just a little different when you are in the middle of it all.

[Too Tall]

Doc you are a savant or something..I dunno. In one experience you mixed cokeheads, g-strings, coffee, Rock n' Roll, Nude Truck stop and Chock-Full-Of-Nuts AND REAL DEAL Ethiopian coffee. Amazing. So tell about the clay pot ritual, I'm all ears.

PS - I finally figured out what your image is lacking....tattoos, spiked hair and waffle stompers ;)

[Marron]

Does anybody have any experience with the Solis Maestro Plus burr grinder. The local purveyor of all things coffee/expresso recomends it for home use.

I have one that I currently use for decaf only. It took some fiddling with the top burr to get it to grind finely enough for use with my Silvia when using my preferred roast. I would characterize it as adequate but no insurance against the urge to subsequently upgrade.

My main grinder is a Rocky doserless. It does in fact make a difference and would be my first purchase if I were starting out to upgrade a home espresso setup. As has been mentioned earlier; "it's the grinder stupid".

[Fred D]

It wasn’t until my significant other bought me a home roaster, small personal size ½ cup of green beans at a time, that I discovered the joys of doing it yourself. You have fresh roasted and ground beans each morning. The half cup of roasted beans lasts me about four days at four cups per brewing. You can get green beans from a number of web sites. I recommend Sweet Marias at sweetmarias.com. They cost half the price of roasted and will last for a year or so, but you will use them up before that. Unless you by large quantities. You also get a geography lesson when you go to their site and read about all the different varieties available. Try the Kenya AA, or the Mexican Chiapas or the Sumatra Mandheling.

Fred D

[Vancouverdave]

My wife and I are both junkies. She's a little fussier--to me there is no bad coffee! Funny story, sort of.......................
This is about two guys I used to work with in a small bike store chain.
One guy is asked to fill in at another store. Being one of the nicest of poeple you'll ever meet he bakes up a batch of his espresso bean/chocolate chip cookies to take in to his temorary workplace for the day. Manager comes in famished from a pre-work bike ride. Manager is caffeine-celibate (yeah, I know, weird in the Northwest!) and sees chocolate chip cookies, eats half the plate. After prying himself off the ceiling four hours later, Manager goes home to see if his headache will go away.

[flydhest]

Marron,

Hence the reason I have a Mazzer to go with my espresso machine :)

Seriously, a good friend has a Rocky and it seems like a very good machine.

I'm currently going through a bout of depression as there is something goofy with the pump on my espresso machine and I'm going to have to ship it back to the vendor. Luckily, I'll be in Europe for three weeks, so hopefully, it can be repaired while I'm there. For now, I'm drinking home roasted french press. French press and espresso are the two methods where the grinder difference is the biggest. It's still there for drip, but boy does it stand out for fp and espresso.

[SGP]

this post may get me chased and beaten like i'm back in jr high

i am a little sick of coffee

i have been working two jobs and coffee has gone from a tasty treat that i loved, one of my few remaining indulgenses, to something i guzzel so i don't wake up on the rumble strip. :crap:

[flydhest]

see below.

[flydhest]

you need to treat yourself to an espresso machine. That way, if it's for the enjoyment, you can savor it . . . if not, you can get you fix by taking a shot.

www.chriscoffee.com
www.wholelattelove.com

[SGP]

yea, thats the ticket.

my old fashioned percolator died, i do need a new machine.

there is a Cole & Parks near by, i've become addicted to drive through esspreso.

it is the swill at the office that realy has me down.

[flydhest]

SGP,

Say no-no to the coffice (conjunction of coffee and office) if it is bad. Help make it better. Mail-order places like http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/ will make your world a better place. Sure, it costs a bit with shipping included, but not that much more than Charbucks and it tastes infinitely better.

[Skrawny]

I'm working at a new hospital that has fresh Peet's Coffee in the lounge starting at 6:30am. At 5am on bad nights I look forward to the Peet's more than the sunrise...

[Ray]

I have one that I currently use for decaf only. It took some fiddling with the top burr to get it to grind finely enough for use with my Silvia when using my preferred roast. I would characterize it as adequate but no insurance against the urge to subsequently upgrade.

My main grinder is a Rocky doserless. It does in fact make a difference and would be my first purchase if I were starting out to upgrade a home espresso setup. As has been mentioned earlier; "it's the grinder stupid".
That's some high class, high priced gear! My wife's a junkie and I seem to be turning into a pre-ride junkie (who'd a thunk - I quit my job and THEN become a coffee-holic). But so far, we've never been picky enough to go from a decent but not great machine with a pressurized portafilter (currently using a Saeco Classico) to a commercial grade like the Rancilio gear that you're using. Is the difference really that noticable? How skilled do you have to be to nail the grind and the tamp to where you get it just right?

Just wondering about that next upgrade.

-Ray

[flydhest]

Ray,

I wish I had known, because I would have dragged you to my house while you were down for the ride and we could have played around on my machine. The difference can be gigantic. Once you have a machine without a pressurized portafilter, the grinder makes a huge difference right away. I have a good friend with a Gaggia Coffee that didn't believe forever, and then finally tried out a Rocky and immediately started apologizing to me for not having believed me. Fresh beans make a world of difference as well. I roast my own, so I always have coffee that has been roasted within the past 10 days. The machine itself . . . well, the possible optimal shot you can pull with a Silvia (or a Gaggia for that matter) relative to a $1K+ semi-commercial one is small. One big difference is the size of the grouphead and thus the thermal consistency during the extraction of the coffee. That thermal mass also allows you more control over the temperature overall. At some point, you start to worry whether you're pulling a shot at 198 degrees versus 203 degrees. At that point, if your taste buds and give-a-damn gets there, the differences become more noticeable as you have to go through a procedure on single-boiler machines to hit the right temperature. Plus, with a heat exchanger, I pull two shots of coffee for the breakfast cappucinos and while the second one is being pulled, I froth the milk. No coffee waiting. Two caps within 2 minutes (literally 120 seconds) of my feet hitting the bottom step of the stairs.

are you hip to www.coffeegeek.com
?

[Ray]

Ray,

I wish I had known, because I would have dragged you to my house while you were down for the ride and we could have played around on my machine. The difference can be gigantic. Once you have a machine without a pressurized portafilter, the grinder makes a huge difference right away. I have a good friend with a Gaggia Coffee that didn't believe forever, and then finally tried out a Rocky and immediately started apologizing to me for not having believed me. Fresh beans make a world of difference as well. I roast my own, so I always have coffee that has been roasted within the past 10 days. The machine itself . . . well, the possible optimal shot you can pull with a Silvia (or a Gaggia for that matter) relative to a $1K+ semi-commercial one is small. One big difference is the size of the grouphead and thus the thermal consistency during the extraction of the coffee. That thermal mass also allows you more control over the temperature overall. At some point, you start to worry whether you're pulling a shot at 198 degrees versus 203 degrees. At that point, if your taste buds and give-a-damn gets there, the differences become more noticeable as you have to go through a procedure on single-boiler machines to hit the right temperature. Plus, with a heat exchanger, I pull two shots of coffee for the breakfast cappucinos and while the second one is being pulled, I froth the milk. No coffee waiting. Two caps within 2 minutes (literally 120 seconds) of my feet hitting the bottom step of the stairs.

are you hip to www.coffeegeek.com
?
Fly,

Next time I'm in DC perhaps? Maybe before the ride, but I'm still going out with the slower group.

Then again, this may be like the proverbial Ottrot test ride - don't ride one unless you're ready to buy it? I'm not sure I'm ready to get hooked on that level of coffee gear and now I'm happy enough with our more forgiving pressurized setup. 198 vs 203 degrees sounds too picky for my tastes, but I've become obsessed with similar levels of fine-ness before. If my "give a damn gets there" - I'm gonna have to remember that!

Thanks for the input.

-Ray

[Too Tall]

SirFly - Can I get you to grind a small amt. for French Press? That is by far and away my fav. for flavour alone. I'd like to compare what I've been doing to what you grind. TIA.

[weisan]

Ray,

I wish I had known, because I would have dragged you to my house while you were down for the ride and we could have played around on my machine. The difference can be gigantic. Once you have a machine without a pressurized portafilter, the grinder makes a huge difference right away. I have a good friend with a Gaggia Coffee that didn't believe forever, and then finally tried out a Rocky and immediately started apologizing to me for not having believed me. Fresh beans make a world of difference as well. I roast my own, so I always have coffee that has been roasted within the past 10 days. The machine itself . . . well, the possible optimal shot you can pull with a Silvia (or a Gaggia for that matter) relative to a $1K+ semi-commercial one is small. One big difference is the size of the grouphead and thus the thermal consistency during the extraction of the coffee. That thermal mass also allows you more control over the temperature overall. At some point, you start to worry whether you're pulling a shot at 198 degrees versus 203 degrees. At that point, if your taste buds and give-a-damn gets there, the differences become more noticeable as you have to go through a procedure on single-boiler machines to hit the right temperature. Plus, with a heat exchanger, I pull two shots of coffee for the breakfast cappucinos and while the second one is being pulled, I froth the milk. No coffee waiting. Two caps within 2 minutes (literally 120 seconds) of my feet hitting the bottom step of the stairs.

are you hip to www.coffeegeek.com
?

okay, okay, first I will qualify my response by saying I am not a coffee drinker, at least not a regular one...does hot chocolate count? :D

But just reading fly-pal's post and seeing how he got his PhD from the careful study of coffee beans and brewing techniques, I think I might just charter a C-130 to airdrop me and my sidekick(W-E-I-S-A-N-D-Y) in Colombia to scout around for the most fertile plot of land to grow our very own SerottaBeans(tm). Of course, all our pals here get 15% off their first purchase, and 25% off from every friend recommendation....it's a flourishing business I can tell. :banana:

[Skrawny]

So how would you name your different Serotta brews?
How would the Ottrott blend differ from the Legend blend? CSI Blend? Fierte Blend?

[flydhest]

SirFly - Can I get you to grind a small amt. for French Press? That is by far and away my fav. for flavour alone. I'd like to compare what I've been doing to what you grind. TIA.

Anytime, baby. In fact, I'm going to Europe for 3 weeks in July, you wanna borrow the grinder while I'm away? We're leaving on the 11th, so if you want to pick it up the weekend before, just drop on by. I'd advise driving instead of bike, 'cuz dat saawmbich is heavy.

That way you can practice side by side as well as all sorts of adjustments in fineness of grind.

also, checkout the following. Mark Prince is the guy who created the website CoffeeGeek. He makes most of us look like low-key recreationalist cyclists compared to how (over-)seriously he takes coffee:
http://www.coffeegeek.com/guides/presspot

Ray,

That would be great. Nothing I like better than a double shot macchiato (just a smidge of milk) before a ride. mmmm, caffeine is your friend.

Weisan, I'd be happier if you went exploring for farmland in Indonesia, preferably, Sulawesi. You find a place, we'll talk about a joint venture.

[William]

Weisan, I'd be happier if you went exploring for farmland in Indonesia, preferably, Sulawesi. You find a place, we'll talk about a joint venture.

Cultivate some beans and play some Silat? Hmm, can I buy in? ;)


William

[weisan]

Weisan, I'd be happier if you went exploring for farmland in Indonesia, preferably, Sulawesi. You find a place, we'll talk about a joint venture.

Fly-pal, you are not only a first-rate economist, but you know your geography and recent history well. After the Tsunami2004 washed ashore the most fertile silt lying in the seabed, we can throw ANYTHING in there and they will grow like poppy seeds...

Skrawny-pal, now you are talkin'...variety is good...product differentiation is good...different price points is good....gullible-consumers-tricked-by-mktg-ploys is good.

William-pal, you have got 0.5% share in this. We will just station you there 365 days a year manning the plantation, sipping coconut milk, sleeping on hammocks, sure you can play silat with the village boys and girls for as long as you like...and here's the best part...you will have miles and miles of farm roads to ride your bike on till the sunset....how cool is that! ;)

Everyone who wishes to cash in on the initial seed money has to study and pass a language test on bahasa Indonesia:
http://home.mira.net/~wreid/bali_lng.html

[flydhest]

weisan,

as it turns out, the Aceh province in Sumatra was more heavily hit than Sulawesi. Sumatra turns out some great coffee as well, but I have a preference for Sulawesi. It's a bit more elegant, but still has the depth and body to it.

That said, investment there seems like a great idea from a business and humanitarian point of view. When I retire, I have thoughts of some sort of do-gooder venture capital firm

[William]

William-pal, you have got 0.5% share in this. We will just station you there 365 days a year manning the plantation, sipping coconut milk, sleeping on hammocks, sure you can play silat with the village boys and girls for as long as you like...and here's the best part...you will have miles and miles of farm roads to ride your bike on till the sunset....how cool is that! ;)

Everyone who wishes to cash in on the initial seed money has to study and pass a language test on bahasa Indonesia:
http://home.mira.net/~wreid/bali_lng.html

I'm in! When do i start? :banana:

BTW, I'm already half way through the course:
http://www.ialf.edu/bahasabali.html

William ;)

[Marron]

That's some high class, high priced gear! My wife's a junkie and I seem to be turning into a pre-ride junkie (who'd a thunk - I quit my job and THEN become a coffee-holic). But so far, we've never been picky enough to go from a decent but not great machine with a pressurized portafilter (currently using a Saeco Classico) to a commercial grade like the Rancilio gear that you're using. Is the difference really that noticable? How skilled do you have to be to nail the grind and the tamp to where you get it just right?

Just wondering about that next upgrade.

-Ray

I had a Saeco for 13 years. Home Espresso Repair here in Seattle kept it going for something like the last 5 or 6. The heating element finally gave out so it was time to either invest another $100 or take the plunge and get a real machine. It came down to the Silvia or the Nouvo Simonelli Oscar. Both of them were available for about the same price. The Oscar is more akin to a professional machine; it uses a heat exchanger so you can simultaneously brew and steam and it has a much larger boiler. The Silvia isn't all that different from the Saeco in design, it's just more robust with better materials and more power. We picked the Silvia because the Oscar wasn't a good fit with our counter and cabinets.

In terms of espresso, the Silvia is better than the Saeco, but I would only upgrade if you were really into it. The Saeco produces a decent shot consistently, but rarely if ever produces great shots. The Silvia is a very tempermental mistress. If you treat her just right and mangage all, and I repeat all, the variables precisely, the results can be sublime. Make the slightest mistake and the results will make you wonder why you spent all that money. That's part of the reason I'm so happy with the Silvia. It gives me something to think about first thing in the morning, although at this point I don't have to think about it very much. The issue really isn't so much skill as experimentation and practice. You've identified the two of the key variables; grind and tamp. The others you have to work with are the beans themselves, the temperature of the machine and the temperature of the water. I used to play with the same variables on my Saeco and had good results.

[William]

Thanks for all the tips on "A" level consumer espresso machines. The old mule is on her last legs and a replacement will soon be warranted.

A question though, I have never used one of the stove top espresso brewers. it seems like it might be good for when I'm camping out. Has anyone tried one?

William

[Ray]

In terms of espresso, the Silvia is better than the Saeco, but I would only upgrade if you were really into it. The Saeco produces a decent shot consistently, but rarely if ever produces great shots. The Silvia is a very tempermental mistress. If you treat her just right and mangage all, and I repeat all, the variables precisely, the results can be sublime. Make the slightest mistake and the results will make you wonder why you spent all that money.
Very good information - thanks. Given my well shy of perfectionist personality, particularly first thing in the AM, the last thing I need is that kind of pressure ;) . I'm pretty happy with the consistently decent shots from the Saeco - and rarely find professionally prepared shots better enough to worry about. We'll be sitting tight for a while, but can't promise what'll happen when the Saeco dies.

-Ray

[William]

Best for Under $500:

Bodum Chambord 12 cup French press

Capresso Espresso Pro

Saeco Vienna

Francis Francis! X3

Capresso MT500 Coffee maker

Rancilio Silvia

Nespresso D300

William

[Tom Kellogg]

I haven't read this whole thread and may have missed a previous post but this stuff is the best I have ever had. We "discovered" it when we were served some at a desert restaurant in Phillispsburg, NJ a few months ago. It turns out that it is roasted in Phila. When I have asked some of my team mates from Phila. what they drink, they all say that it is their choice.

Anyway, we got a couple of pounds and were immediately hooked. The "Corsica" is the blend and roast that we like most. Somewhat pricy at $11.25 but VERY good.

Here is the link: La Colombe WEB site (http://www.lacolombe.com/business.html)

[Ray]

...but not by much and by the time you add the level of grinder that such a fine machine requires, you're probably at about $700 - $800. And, as Marron says, it seems that you have to know how to use it :cool:

-Ray

[Too Tall]

BigWilly(tm) - When you say stovetop espresso makers are you talking about Italian (type) Moka Pot or the screw together type espresso machines that have a sealed pressure chamber, steam for frothing etc. and get their heat from a stovetop? My folks had a really scarey stovetop espresso machine...you'd load it with water and espresso, screwed it together...all the while fretting over the condition of an ancient gasket...set it on a hot stove and pray for about 10 min.s that it didn't grenade on you. Darn thing worked well but I'd be a little leary of setting it on a camp fire. However I have used Moka pots for camping...well pickup truck camping...not hiking. They are fantastic for that as they are stout and reliable. My fav. coffee for camping is cowboy coffee. Honest! It is most appropriate to have spartan coffee when in the woods in my opinion anywho. Use a course grind and just stir them into a tin of water that is just off boiling and let steep for about 5 mins. Pour slow and watch you don't pour the grounds into your cup. Heck, that's great coffee done right.

Seth - I've marked my calendar to come by your pad on July 10th. Do I have to leave a deposit ;)

Who has any experience with cold process coffee? I've heard from my professional chef friend this makes the best cup he has ever had. Apparently it uses cold water steeping to extract a concentrate and when reconsituted in hot water is just great....I can't imagine. Hmmmm.

Just an observation. when scouting for land to propigate you cats might want to keep an eye out for flying monkeys 'kay?: "And now, my beauties... something with poison in it, I think. With poison in it, but attractive to the eye” and soothing to the smell! Poppies! Poppies! Poppies will put them to sleep. Now they'll sleep."
"Curse it! Curse it! Somebody always helps that Bambi!"
"Fly, my pretties! Fly, fly!"

[Ray]

I haven't read this whole thread and may have missed a previous post but this stuff is the best I have ever had. We "discovered" it when we were served some at a desert restaurant in Phillispsburg, NJ a few months ago. It turns out that it is roasted in Phila. When I have asked some of my team mates from Phila. what they drink, they all say that it is their choice.
Thanks for the link, Tom. We live down here and had never heard of it. Pretty pricey shipping just to get it out to the burbs - sounds like an excuse to ride into Manyunk!

-Ray

[bostondrunk]

Saeco blah blah Gaggio blah blah.......admit it, very few coffees are better than a plain old Dunkin Donuts with cream and sugar.
It just don't git any better than this, boys <burp>. :beer:

[Dr. Doofus]

Doc you are a savant or something..I dunno. In one experience you mixed cokeheads, g-strings, coffee, Rock n' Roll, Nude Truck stop and Chock-Full-Of-Nuts AND REAL DEAL Ethiopian coffee. Amazing. So tell about the clay pot ritual, I'm all ears.

PS - I finally figured out what your image is lacking....tattoos, spiked hair and waffle stompers ;)


Ethiopians invented coffee. Lets gte that straight to start with. These are the first folks to start boiling the sacred caffeine bean, so, you know, kinda like italians and bike frames...you gotts defer to the experts.

First, they take the fresh beans and roast them (preferably over a portable eye, on the table where it will be served) in a saucepan. yep. a saucepan. the smoke fills the room and the aroma is freaking amazing. the host or hostess passes the smoking pot in front of you, and waving the smoke with your hand is considered good luck.

all this time, a clay pot (open at the top, with a pouing spout) is heating up with water in it on another hot eye (tecle and our eritrean pal elda (who married a kraut...but that's another story) both have sporty two-eye mini stoves for this...one eye for the beans, one for the water).

the beans are ground and then put into the clay pot. it takes all of maybe 5 minutes for the top of the pot to start bubbling over, and you have the original

coffee

it is served in small turkish-style cups, with sugar or cinnamon or a very nice spice that doof does not recall the name of (might have been cardamom, though) that was at tecle's house.


doof used to have more of an image, but it was pointy-toed boots, long hair, and some earrings...wife hated the earrings...the greasy long hair doesn't work on the bike (those were the knees needed a long time to heal back up no bike for two and half years years) boots would require new jeans...with the money doof blows on bke crap, his wardobe suffers...which is two strikes against him in mrs. doof's book....

[jeffg]

but I dig the way Italians make coffee. I used to have a Gaggia Classic and MDF grinder for more than a decade, then it got ko'd by the movers ... :crap:

Anyway, I was the one making the coffee since my wife didn't care to deal. So, since I have Lavazza in my office now (unlimited, on-demand :no: ), I figured I should get something to suit her with the claim money and picked up a Gaggia Titanium. I got it dialed in, and though you do not have the control or quality of an ECM, Pasquini, or even a Rancilio, etc, my wife now turns out very acceptable caps for herself and can make them for a crowd. I miss my old Classic (and really wanted an ECM Giotto!), but that was not in the cards.

To me, the old Gaggia was like a good ferrous bike, the Titanium is more like CF.

[flydhest]

TT, no deposit required . . . I know where you live.

Re: cold brew. I've had it and know someone who is a devotee. It is a different type of extraction and, as a result, yields a different type of coffee. It is more mellow and the acidity in the coffee seems to be more muted. This can be a very relaxing cup. On the other hand, if you like the zip and zing of a good Costa Rican, you'll miss the bright flavors and the nuances.

Doc gets into a good description of the Ethiopian coffee ritual, however, back when they "discovered" coffee, this was not the preparation method. The process he describes is much more recent. Indeed, the most famous story about the discovery of coffee, that of Kaldi the goat herder (I swear, I am not making this up) is considered to be apochryphal by most food/coffee historian.

Little known fact, the terms Mocha--which for some reason now means coffee with chocolate flavoring--comes from the name of an old city in what is now Yemen. It was a port city and shipped lots of coffee and thus the name became linked with coffee. It is no longer on the water, however, due to acretion. Similarly, the term Java is in reference to the island in Indonesia. Mocha-Java was one of the original blends of coffee, but now is often a blend, oddly, of Indian and Ethiopian coffees. Go figure.

[Too Tall]

Doc., I get the picture. The tradition of serving coffee Ethiopian style has a long suit in my book....dang I can get into food / drink ritual in a big way. Roasting green beans in front of guests, smelling the fumes. Gosh. You have cool friends. OK, fugget the cloths....how about spikey hair and than the bad cloths will go with ;)

The cold brew deal does not look hard to approximate with a Chemex and overfill the beaker? Let it sit in the fridge over the weekend?

[William]

BigWilly(tm) - When you say stovetop espresso makers are you talking about Italian (type) Moka Pot or the screw together type espresso machines that have a sealed pressure chamber, steam for frothing etc. and get their heat from a stovetop?

I don't know Man! That's why I waz askin chew. Thanks for the Cowboy Coffee recipe.....& the Wizard of Oz "Blue Ringer" flashback! YOWZA MAN!! :banana:


William ;)

[beungood]

I can't live with out it! help me! Up here in Boston and it's surroundings therer are too many choices. Coffee is a mainstay when we are out on patrol(No free donut jokes William!) I grab a Jumbo Cinnamin Hazlenut from Mary Lou's (As famous for the pink cups as the pretty girls in the commercials..) I can do anything when I have had my jumbo. Two Jumbos im trouble, Big William can attest to this.

I'd say after Mary Lou's ,Honey Dew Donut has eclipsed DD for quality. I refuse Starbucks as I heard from a Buddy in the Marines that a Marine Unit wrote asking to buy some bags and were refused and told "Starbucks doesnt beleive in the war or support anyone who takes part in it. Being a former Marine I would rather buy it froma gas station than them.. grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

:crap:

[Marron]

...but not by much and by the time you add the level of grinder that such a fine machine requires, you're probably at about $700 - $800. And, as Marron says, it seems that you have to know how to use it :cool:

-Ray

I get a kick out of comparing what people think of as expensive. I'll bet a typical poster on the forum has at least $5,000 worth of bikes in their basement and they think I'm nuts to spend $800 to get a decent espresso.
To put it in perspective; that setup is comparable to buying something like a nice steel Lemond or Ultegra equipped Trek 5200. You can spend waaaay more if you're really serious. The Silvia espresso machine is so tempermental because it's designed down to a price with significant compromises around temperature and pressure control. You can work around it, but if you are expecting to just push buttons you'll be disappointed. That's what's so great about modern bikes.

The real prosumer machines (I've often wondered why this phrase never caught on with bikes) cost 2-3 times as much and should be mated to more expensive grinders. Sound familiar? "Honey, I can't put a Centaur goup on my new Serotta."

[Ray]

I get a kick out of comparing what people think of as expensive. I'll bet a typical poster on the forum has at least $5,000 worth of bikes in their basement and they think I'm nuts to spend $800 to get a decent espresso.
Wouldn't suggest that any price you want to pay is TOO much. Just pointing out that the Silvia, which was noted as being under $500, isn't really by the time you make it functional. If I was as into coffee as I'm into bikes, I'm sure I'd have a few thousand into it anyway. My earlier questions were sort of like a bike newbie asking whether a $5000 bike is really that much better than a $1500 bike. For someone way into it, the answer is clearly yes. For someone only a bit into it, as you noted, the answer is probably not. So I'm not ready to drop a chunk of change on a coffee setup (gotta save my pennies for that '07 e-ritchie, after all), but would love to test-ride one someday.

-Ray

[flydhest]

Marron,

I'm with you. I have a ECM Giotto, a Mazzer Mini grinder, and a Hottop roaster. I figure it's not even close to having two Record equipped new Serottae.

Beungood,

Check these people out:
http://www.terroircoffee.com/

Not cheap, but they have an artisinal take on coffee roasting and are all about single farm or single-origin coffees.

[JimD]

Just go to your favorite market, mate. Buy some quality brand and make it STRONG and BLACK. As my grandmother would say - never dilute the good stuff (unless you're adding some good Irish whiskey!).


:banana:

[William]

4:30 AM EST.

I'm preparing to make a good cup of espresso when I go to turn the machine on, I hit the swith, the light goes on, then it flickers a few times with a nice accompanying buzz buzz fry fry sound and then dies.......AAAAAHAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! ! :eek:

There are no shops open that early around me!!!! :butt:


SO, advice from the coffee heads:

Moka pot (stove top or electric) vs. New Espresso machine?

I don't froth up the milk any more so that's not a seller for me. I like it strong. The Moka pot sounds interesting but I've never used one. Advice would be appreciated......and soon because I'm going into DT's ;)


William

[Lanny R. Levenson]

The Moka Pot would work well. A friend of mine in Seattle has the stove top pot and it made good strong coffee. There's nothing like Starbucks Espresso Roast. For my own personal use, I prefer the Lavazza Espresso. It's a little sweeter without any bitterness.

[loctite]

My wife used to own and run a coffe shop, she rosted her own beans. We learned it was more about the roast, than the bean itself. We found that a lightly roasted bean has more flavor than a burnt bean. Its kinda like a good steak, its always better medium rare. Starbucks burns the beans they roast to cover up the fact that they are poor quality, again like a steak, burn a Filet Mignon and a hot dog to a crisp and they both taste like crap.... Find a coffee shop or roaster that fresh roasts, (its best in the first 3 weeks after the roast date) And look for a lighter roast (nice cinnamon color and NO OIL). After that just try different beans (I like Costa Rican Blue Star about 9-12 bucks a pound), untill you find one YOU like! Oh, and stay away from C&S it just covers the true taste of the coffee bean. Cheers!

[flydhest]

William,

What's your budget for the espresso machine? (I love spending other people's money). Grinder is more important than the espresso machine. A $350 Gaggia with a $250-$300 grinder is much, much better than a $1500 high-end prosumer machine with a $100 grinder.

There is nothing like Starbucks, I agree . . . and for that I am thankful. Stay clear of the mermaid.

The double capps that the wife and I had this morning were from home-roasted beans . . . mmmmmm, dreamy. Plus, there was latte art on top.

loctite: I'd have to say that the bean matters a lot, but you're right, the roast can destroy a good bean. Good bean is necessary but not sufficient. Home roasting is easy and fun. Those interested should go to www.sweetmarias.com or www.coffeegeek.com The first has all you would ever need including lots of info. The second, though declining in quality, is a great resource for all things coffee. The difference having coffee that's been roasted in the past week versus one that's been roasted months or more ago is staggering when you get to do it side by side. Even more than the tubulars being a better ride than clinchers.

[loctite]

[QUOTE=Dr. Doofus]Ethiopians invented coffee. Lets gte that straight to start with. QUOTE]

Well, actually GOD invented coffee, and as far as DISCOVERY it was discovered by goats! The goat hearder Kaldi discovered coffee beans did something to give energy (caffine) when his goats ate the berries and started acting wild. oh yeah and he was Arabian not Ethiopian... Coffee History 101 dismissed! ;)

[loctite]

There is nothing like Starbucks, I agree . . . and for that I am thankful. Stay clear of the mermaid.

.

:crap: :argue: :argue:

BLAHHHH. i have had coffee and espresso from all over the world, :argue: Starclucks is one of the WORST i have ever had, probably due in part to the preperation more than the bean, but thats what hapens when you are HUGE...

[Tom]

I come from the line of people that drank A&P Bokar coffee dripped through something that should have had a paper filter but they were too cheap so all the grounds just slid through and your cup of coffee was the consistency of runny chili. Good stuff. You could stand your spoon up in it, until the spoon was eaten away by the brew. They drank it by the quart.

By the way, a $20 Mr. Coffee consistently scores higher in coffee freak machine brew-offs than the $670 do everything including froth your cream (if you know what I mean) machines.

I do have an espresso maker and that same Price Chopper store brand ground even finer and rammed through that thing makes a good mugful, if I do say so. Slap a little whiskey to it and Sunday morning looks a lot better.

[93legendti]

Foofy designer crap here.
well not really.
Started with Starbucks, then moved to Peets.
Now buying fresh roasted (in small batches) Mocha Java
from Whole Foods. They have their own roaster and I
have the person behind the counter roast it for a little
longer than usual for a smoother cup.
I've heard of some people using an air popcorn popper
to roast their own, may have to try that.

Marty

I like all 3: Peet's, Starbucks, and Whole Foods. I rotate between stove top espresso maker, drip coffee machine and French Press. Gotta keep the addiction on its toes!

[flydhest]

By the way, a $20 Mr. Coffee consistently scores higher in coffee freak machine brew-offs than the $670 do everything including froth your cream (if you know what I mean) machines.

I do have an espresso maker and that same Price Chopper store brand ground even finer and rammed through that thing makes a good mugful, if I do say so. Slap a little whiskey to it and Sunday morning looks a lot better.

Tom, for drip machines, $20 goes a long way until you get to the very good ones (that no one has heard of and therefore don't review in most consumer oriented guides) that control water temp at abou 198-204 F. The gew-gahs that you refer to on the other high-priced things are crap, I agree.

For drip, give me a pour-over filter cone any day. $10 if you already have a kettle, but get freshly roasted coffee, ground just as the water comes to a boil (and then allowed to cool to 204) and it's better than any drip machine.

Loctite, I hope you realized that my comment was a negative toward Starbucks. The Kaldi story, however, is widely discredited among food historians. It is a nice, warm fuzzy myth.

[jerk]

jacobs coffee is the best. at least untill really recently all the good stuff went to wholesale auction first in germany before the americans and the asias got the refuse the germans didn't want.

anyway,
jerk

[ergott]

Just finished brewing a cup of Jittery Joes and loving it!!

This is the best coffee I have ever had and was the first to get me drinking coffee black, the way G-d intended! :banana:

[Ozz]

4:30 AM EST.

I'm preparing to make a good cup of espresso when I go to turn the machine on, I hit the swith, the light goes on, then it flickers a few times with a nice accompanying buzz buzz fry fry sound and then dies.......AAAAAHAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! ! :eek:

There are no shops open that early around me!!!! :butt:


SO, advice from the coffee heads:

Moka pot (stove top or electric) vs. New Espresso machine?

I don't froth up the milk any more so that's not a seller for me. I like it strong. The Moka pot sounds interesting but I've never used one. Advice would be appreciated......and soon because I'm going into DT's ;)


William
Bummer.....

I hope you had a back up....

BTW - Get both.

You can get a decent Moka for about $30...a little more for a larger size. Great for camping trips.

A $5 Melitta cone (single serving) makes the best drip coffee...

[johnmdesigner]

Since you live on Long island make a trip to NYC and stop at Orens Coffee. Buy a bag of Beowolf Blend and a good Italian expresso machine (maybe a Saeco if you are riding a Cannondale. Just like being in Italy.... :banana:

[MartyE]

Willian, a bodum french press is always good to have around
the house in case of emergency.

Lately I've been looking into the vacumn coffee machines,
same principal as a mocha, very old technology and pretty
reliable.
I've been drinking Allegro Yergi Cheffe from whole foods,
they roast, I grind.

Marty

[Argos]

Wow, almost 4000 views...

Apparently people like coffee more then they like Tuna Fish Sandwiches! :D

[shoe]

i was never really into coffee until stumbling in to this little coffe roaster in a back alley in my town...he's a total nut and a freak about coffee...he does webstuff so if you are looking to try different roasts it is worth checking out..

http://coffeesandteasofyesteryear.com/organicfairtradestore/enter.html

some i have been a big fan of and some i wasn't- just depends on your preference...i've found that a grinder and a french press are all i need for a great cup of coffee...as far as being out i don't drink espresso much so i order americanos and i find it gives a truer and fresher taste of the bean. guess bikes and coffee go well together from the looks of this thread..dave

[Ken Robb]

too few choices: what about :Ride Up and buy a cup?

We have Coffee Ambasadorservice at the office. Their machine brews one cup of great coffee at a time at a cost of about $.35 a cup. They provide many different coffees, teas, cocoa, etc. My favorite is Sumatran, which they rate at 5+ on their scale of 1-5. The machine can also make frou-frou capachino, capuchino??? Heck they both look funnyHow do you spell that?

[Ozz]

...We have Coffee Ambasadorservice at the office....
I have three Starbucks in my building....plus a cafe/cafeteria that serves espresso...Monorail Espresso across the street (espresso of choice for bike bike messengers), and countless other espresso stands within a couple blocks...no shortage of caffeine in these parts. :beer:

[Roy E. Munson]

$5 Melitta cone (single serving) makes the best drip coffee...

Agreed

[bironi]

I liked their coffees prior to moving to Olympia, and still do.

http://www.batdorf.com/

Byron

[The Spider]

a $30 Bialetti stove top espresso pot is a great way to start.

I now have a $400 Mazzer Mini grinder to go with it.

And just like cycling, developing a good relationship with supplier is vital. Get to know your bean merchant!

[jharsha]

I must be weird, I've never even liked the smell of coffee so I'm the "designated bike watcher" when our rides near a Starbucks.

[The Spider]

Jharsa,

just because you don't like starbucks doesn't mean you don't like coffee!

Spider the Snob

[William]

I decided to give the Moka pot a try. After hunting around I came up with the LaPavoni Caffe Mattina. Basically it's an electric Moka pot. It arrived on Friday and we've been brewing all weekend. It makes a really good, strong Espresso. Real easy to use, just put the water into the base, put fresh ground beans into the filter and set into opening of the base, screw the top on and push the button. In about eight minutes you have excellent espresso. The black heating base is thin and non obtrusive. The whole unit lifts right off to pour.
You don't get the creama that you get with a pump driven espresso machine, but for $63 it was worth a try. I'm glad I did. In the future we will probably get a pumper as well but for now we are enjoying some dang good coffee.

"The La Pavoni Caffe Mattina cordless electric espresso maker was designed in Milan, Italy 2001. The stainless steel body and filters ensure long-lasting durability. Espresso coffee will automatically be brewed at 180 degrees ensuring a full-bodied flavor. No need to monitor the brew cycle as the unit will shut-off automatically. Features bakelite handle with heat guard and a built-in safety valve. With no direct heat the unit will stay new-looking for many years. Makes 7-8 cups of espresso. Thermostat controlled, 8-minute brewing time and fully portable for easy serving with a non-drip spout. Model ESP-20."

William

[beungood]

Is this Mud strong enough to strip paint and cause tachycardia?

[William]

Is this Mud strong enough to strip paint and cause tachycardia?

Just don't spill any on that beam of yours. :eek:



William ;)

[William]

Key Ingredients In Perfect Espresso


Making coffee is a lot like baking a cake. There are specific ingredients and parameters that are required in order for the creation to be considered cake, but the requirements for making a Tunnel of Fudge cake are a lot different than making a Carrot Cake. The same goes for coffee – basically anything that involves combining coffee grounds with hot water is considered coffee, but there are specific requirements for making the espresso type of coffee. In this article, we’re going to take an in depth look at these key ingredients and parameters, and how to put them all together to make a proper espresso.

Temperature

Espresso is brewed using water that has been heated to between 190 degrees F and 195 degrees F. A thermostat in the boiler brings the temperature of the water to the proper level and maintains it while the machine is on. As you begin to brew, the thermostat will turn on again in an effort to heat the water that is being drawn in from the reservoir as the already heated water is used for brewing.

Although espresso is brewed with water temperatures exceeding 190 degrees F, it doesn’t necessarily mean the temperature of your espresso will be that hot when you go to enjoy it. Generally, the temperature can be quite less, with an average 160 degrees F to 165 degrees F in your cup. The large drop in temperature is largely contributable to whether or not your portafilter, brew group, and espresso cup have been fully pre-heated. We always recommend pulling a “blank shot” to remedy this problem. Before brewing, just attach the empty portafilter to the machine, place your cup under the portafilter, and press the brew button. Hot water will be dispensed through the portafilter and brew group and fall into the cup, thereby heating all three elements at once. Proper temperature is also a large contributor to the quality of the crema that tops your espresso. Crema dramatically impacts the flavor of the shot, making temperature even more important to the overall success of your espresso.


Pressure

When we’re talking about pressure in relation to espresso, there are actually two different things we need to address: tamp pressure and brewing pressure.

Tamp Pressure
This is the amount of pressure used to compact the coffee grounds in the portafilter prior to brewing. As a general rule, we recommend consistently using 30 lbs of tamp pressure. If you’re not sure what that feels like, drag out the ol’ bathroom scale and try it out – it won’t feel nearly as heavy as you’re expecting. By always using the same amount of pressure, you’re reducing the number of variables involved in brewing, so it’s easier to target and resolve an issue. We’ll talk more about possible problems you’ll run into and how to solve them later in this article.

Brewing Pressure
In order to brew a proper espresso, hot water must be forced through the coffee grounds at around 8 or 9 BAR of pressure – roughly 135 PSI. The pump inside every espresso machine is designed to produce these exact measurements of pressure, so this isn’t something you’ll need to control yourself. Some machines advertise they are able to produce pump pressures of 15 to 19 BAR. However, this doesn’t mean that they will they produce better espresso than those of lower pressures. As described above, it is only necessary to have about 8 to 9 BAR of pump pressure to produce good espresso. The pressure ratings on these units pertain to the maximum pressure or BAR the espresso machine is able to produce, not what it will actually brew the espresso at. Just remember that it isn't important to buy an espresso machine with the most powerful pump. Any pump driven espresso machines we carry provides more than enough pressure to produce fine espresso.

Coffee, Water, & Extraction Time

So we’ve talked about temperature and pressure and set the stage (or greased the cake pan, if you will) for the down and dirty “this is how you do it” part of brewing espresso. Yes temperature and pressure are equally as important to espresso as the things we’re about to discuss, but they’re a little more abstract to you budding baristas out there. This is the part you actually get to put your hands on and find out what brewing espresso is all about.

Most commonly, espresso is brewed as either a single or double shot. This terminology references the amount of coffee and water that are used. To brew a single shot, you will use 7 grams of coffee and pull between 1 and 1.5 oz of water. For a double shot, you’ll basically double those quantities – 14 grams of coffee and 2 to 2.5 oz of water. No matter if you’re brewing a single or double shot, you should be able to extract the espresso in 20 to 25 seconds.

This little equation is what we call the Espresso Rule of Thumb, and it acts as a guideline for brewing espresso. If the results you’re getting don’t meet these parameters (for instance, you get 3.5 oz of espresso in 20 seconds), you’ll know instantly that something isn’t right and that you need to alter one of your variables to meet this target. We’ll look at some specific scenarios and how to correct them in a minute, but let’s look at the Espresso Rule of Thumb one more time.


The Espresso Rule of Thumb

Given that water between 190 degrees F and 195 degrees F is applied at 8 – 9 BAR to finely ground coffee that has been tamped at 30 lbs of pressure:

A single shot is made with 7 grams of coffee, and should yield 1 – 1.5 oz of espresso in 20 –25 seconds.

A double shot is made with 14 grams of coffee, and should yield 2 – 2.5 oz of espresso in 20 –25 seconds.

Troubleshooting

The next question out of most people’s mouths is, “What do I do if my shots don’t meet these requirements specifically?” Well, the good news is that because you’re keeping the amount of coffee and tamp pressure the same in each attempt, there’s only one thing to alter in order to get different results: the fineness of your grind. This is one of the main reasons why a grinder is such an essential element to brewing espresso and why we always recommend that you purchase one to accompany your semi-automatic machine. Beyond the obvious advantages of the freshest coffee possible, using your own grinder makes it much easier to troubleshoot a problem if one arises.

The two main problems people run into are that their shots are either too slow or too fast. If your shot is slow (it takes longer than 25 seconds to brew the correct amount of espresso), it means that the water is being prevented from coming through the grounds at the appropriate rate. You can fix this by adjusting your grinder to a coarser setting. On the other hand, if your shot is fast (it takes less than 20 seconds to brew the correct amount of espresso), it means that water is passing too easily through the grounds. This is remedied by adjusting your grinder to a finer setting. Every time you adjust your setting, just remember to keep your tamping consistent and time your shot to make sure you’re on target.

We know that not everyone can spring for the semi auto and matching grinder right away, so some of you may be using pre-ground coffees. The Espresso Rule of Thumb still applies here, but if you’re not hitting your target extraction times, you’ll want to alter your tamp pressure to compensate. Tamp harder if your shot times are too fast, and lighter if your shot times are too slow. If you’re getting similar results regardless of the tamp pressure, it may simply be that the grind setting will not work well with your machine.


Other Things to Keep In Mind

Although the Espresso Rule of Thumb does apply to all semi automatic espresso machines, the strict parameters we’ve set are a little different depending on what type of semi auto you’re using. Those machines that have commercial style portafilters are a bit more sensitive to these guidelines, so you’ll want to keep with them specifically. However, pressurized style portafilters are more forgiving when it comes to tamp pressure and grind setting. You’ll want to aim for a lighter tamp as well as a slightly coarser grind if you’re using a pressurized portafilter, but the other requirements will remain the same.

It is also important to remember that you may need to make adjustments to your grind setting when you try a new type of coffee. Beans can differ in roast level and density, both of which can affect how the grounds perform. So, it may be necessary that you “dial in” your grinder again if you notice that changing beans affects your brewing time.

If you ever have any brewing issues that you just can’t seem to solve using the troubleshooting tips we’ve given you here, please feel free to call our Customer Care Center at 888-280-8584. We’ll give you any further advice we can and get you on the path to perfect espresso.

[flydhest]

William,

Where did those espresso notes come from? They are a great general start. The temperature cited looks like the Italian standard. Others argue for a higher temp at brewing, around 198-204 depending on the bean and the roast. In general, you want a higher temperature for lighter roasts. A lower temp accentuates the acid, which can make a lighter roast taste sour, whereas a higher temperature can bring out bitterness in a darker roast.

Those instructions are also not for the moka pot that is posted higher. Moka pots don't make espresso per se. They brew strong coffee. The accepted definition of espresso, as pointed out in the instructions, involve ~9 bar of pressure, moka pots generate about 1-1/2.

What coffee are you using?

[Too Tall]

I've had the coffee at SirFlys house and yep he is the BMO Coffee Campus. Willy, I have a fondness eye-ti mocha pots and that's what I reach for whenever I'm in the mood for a butt kickin' strong cuppa coffee. A courser grind of medium roast seems work best. Very dark roasts tends to bitter.

[William]

William,

Where did those espresso notes come from? They are a great general start. The temperature cited looks like the Italian standard. Others argue for a higher temp at brewing, around 198-204 depending on the bean and the roast. In general, you want a higher temperature for lighter roasts. A lower temp accentuates the acid, which can make a lighter roast taste sour, whereas a higher temperature can bring out bitterness in a darker roast.

Those instructions are also not for the moka pot that is posted higher. Moka pots don't make espresso per se. They brew strong coffee. The accepted definition of espresso, as pointed out in the instructions, involve ~9 bar of pressure, moka pots generate about 1-1/2.

What coffee are you using?

Hi Fly,
I got the article from the company I bought the moka pot from.

http://www.aabreecoffee.com/articles.cfm

I know the instructions were for using a pumper, I just thought it was a good article to share. I was using the term "espresso" loosely in my previous post. The coffee that I was trying in the moka pot was espresso roast, a mix of latin American & Indonesian beans. Maybe a little dark according to my height gifted chimeric twin. I'll need to try a medium roast per his very tall telepathic instruction. ;)

In the future we will get a good pump machine as well, we're just enjoying something different at the moment. :beer:

William

[MartyE]

I was given an electric Mocha pot last year for my birthday
makes nice coffee, strong, espresso like but not espresso, no crema.
One mistake I made with it was use an espresso grind coffee in it.
The result was somewhat over extracted and bitter.

William, thanks for the Espresso Primer, Great information.

marty

[flydhest]

willie,

Aabree has a pretty good rep, aren't they linked to whole latte love (don't you love that name?)?

Check out these cats:

http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/

With the shipping, it might get a bit pricey, but they do quality product and ship promptly so you get the coffee about 3 days after the roast. I have even received some 2 days post roast.

[William]

willie,

Aabree has a pretty good rep, aren't they linked to whole latte love (don't you love that name?)?

Check out these cats:

http://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/

With the shipping, it might get a bit pricey, but they do quality product and ship promptly so you get the coffee about 3 days after the roast. I have even received some 2 days post roast.

Their service was very good. Their pricing was good as well...hard to beat no tax and no shipping charges. :banana:

Intelligentsia is very good. Marco sent me a couple pounds of fresh roasted intelligentsia last year. I savored that let me tell you. :cool:


William

[beungood]

Im thinking serving us Expresso before our sessions would help us endure your Harsh and maniacal training plan...... :argue:

[Marco]

me on to the best coffees out there. First it was Intelligentsia, then terroircoffee, and then................................www.flysbestve lobrew.com. My first, and only, taste of home roasted beans was dyn-o-mite.

By the way- if you are ever in Portland, Stumptown is excellent also. For that we have Sacha to thank.

[William]

Fly,

When do your Coffee Connoisseur classes start?? I'm in. :cool:


William

[Too Tall]

A Serottan(tm) told me about Caffe' D-arte Alderwood smoked beans last yr. Yowza! Some of the most exotic and wonderful beans ever. Almost as good as Flyguys ;)

http://www.caffedarte.com/page.aspx

[William]

Im thinking serving us Expresso before our sessions would help us endure your Harsh and maniacal training plan...... :argue:


Four shots straight just before every class. :beer:

(clench teeth, eyes wide open) Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzoooooooooooooooooooommmmmmm! :banana:


William ;)

[TmcDet]

Dunn Bros in Mpls is fresh roasted and pretty darn good --

I stopped in Dunn Bros in Addison the other day not knowing how their coffee was. They had signs up saying that they roasted the beans fresh everyday but I never thought anything about till I tasted the cofee.... it was the best coffee that I have tasted

[ClutchCargo]

Tom, for drip machines, $20 goes a long way until you get to the very good ones (that no one has heard of and therefore don't review in most consumer oriented guides) that control water temp at abou 198-204 F. . . .

questions? what's your process for home roasting, if you don't mind my asking? not the stove top popcorn popper, I'm thinkin'.

and do you have recommendations for the type of drip machine -- I like the simple melitta type cone filter, but am also interested in what else is out there that you would recommend.

grazie. :)

[flydhest]

I have a 1/2 pound drum roaster, check this: http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.hottop.shtml

If you go to www.coffeegeek.com they have tons of reviews of machines.

Technivorm http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/drip/technivorm_clubline is supposed to be very good as is Zojirushi, I recommended it to a friend and he loves it.
http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/drip/zojirushifreshbrew

The main thing to find is brewing temp. This is notoriously low on drip machines. Some as low as 160!
If you make a couple pots a day and in quantity, Bunn makes expensive stuff that is very temp. stable.


Lastly, grinder, grinder, grinder, grinder, grinder. High-quality, burr grinder. I think you'll make better quality drip with a $150 grinder, a kettle of boiling water, and a pour-over cone filter than with a $250 drip machine and a $50 grinder.

[Kevan]

but plenty of Chevys.

[Marco]

Does a Solis Maestro Plus count as a good-enough-grinder? http://www.wholelattelove.com/Solis/maestrop.cfm

Works for me :)

[bostondrunk]

What diff. does the grinder make? I have a $12 Walmart model that has variable speed, etc., doesn't have a spinning blade, so not sure if it is burr?
Coffee seems very good, so what will a $150 grinder do for me???

[bostondrunk]

OK, another question.......the drunk is massively confused.....

The machines like Saeco, Gaggia, etc., they all seem to be espresso machines. But are you people using them for -coffee-?? Or when you guys say 'coffee', are you really talking 'espresso'???

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where'd my dunkin donuts go?....

[Ozz]

A Serottan(tm) told me about Caffe' D-arte Alderwood smoked beans last yr. Yowza! Some of the most exotic and wonderful beans ever. Almost as good as Flyguys ;)

http://www.caffedarte.com/page.aspx
yes....very nice.

[ClutchCargo]

so what will a $150 grinder do for me???

your Irish : coffee ratio ... ;)


ride on!

[flydhest]

Marco,

Every report I've heard says that's a great grinder.

Drunk,
Side-by-side comparisons reveal a dramatic difference in coffee flavor. If you don't notice the difference, then you get off cheap. It's like someone who can't tell the ride difference between a $200 department store bike and a good steel frame.

Specifically, good burr grinders give a consistency of grind and only some types can grind sufficiently fine for espresso. Consistency, however, matters for every brewing type. I personally think it matters most for espresso and vacuum pots, but a discernable difference can be tasted across all methods. Essentially, the largest lumps will not be fully extracted and the powder will be over extracted. Over extracted coffee tastes bitter, under extracted is either weak, sour, or both. Having half-and-half doesn't even it out, it just means you get some of each bad flavor.

Espresso is a subset of coffee. It is simply a particular method of extraction. The Tour de France and keirin are very different and yet both are bicycle racing.

[bostondrunk]

So do people ever use the machines like the $200-$300 Saeco's for -coffee-, or just espresso?

[flydhest]

The Saeco espresso machines only make espresso, not drip coffee. An Americano is espresso that is diluted with hot water to make it the same strength as drip.

[bostondrunk]

http://xo.typepad.com/blog/2004/04/one_cup_of_cat_.html