*rant* How stupid are we???

[Ti Designs]

Last Wednesday here in the Boston area we had an interesting weather event. Schools and buisnesses were closed due to accumulations of road salt and sand. It was either the forecast of snow - and we all know how accurate they are, or the images of snow to the south which got the local towns to fire up the trucks plows and close the schools, to the tune of millions of dollars. Now at some point you would think they would look out their windows or walk outside and figure out that it didn't snow. That night after I got home from work, the sanding trucks made 7 passes down my street - it wasn't snowing!!! And yet people still seem to think that this is a very needed service in my town. People say "don't complain, some day you'll need your road plowed". Yeh, and some day my house may be on fire, and I would love it if the fire department came and put it out, but I hope they're smart enough not to break all my windows and flood the house if it's not on fire!!!

[OtayBW]

One of life's little 'pleasantries' is riding around New England all winter long in my salt-encrusted truck, and then waiting in line to get to 'Ernie's Car Wash' like it was the '72 gas shortage.

[dekindy]

If it had snowed and they had not put salt and sand down you would be ranting, too. I guess they should just do what they think is right and ignore the noise, because they are going to get it either way in this climate where everyone thinks everyone else is an idiot.

I am getting a sense from your posts that you think the world ought to be a perfect place. I used to think that also but to preserve my sanity got over it and realized that it was not.

[rugbysecondrow]

I think you need to get out and ride more... :)

[1happygirl]

Hahahaha. Sorry.

I was talking about this at work. We have become a nation of NON-thinking people. It was budgeted ALREADY for this year, so we have to...(fill in the blank---re-carpet the offices, etc). Since we are not giving out COLAS this year due to the economy.....DUH Uhhh-hmmm, "What about saving the money then for next year and not doing the xyz?" Asked me the innocent. Again...No we already budgeted, we HAVE to do it.


Thanks for letting me chime in (but now I'm all stirred up too hahahah).


AGGGGHHHHHHH. I agree with you.

Glad I don't live up there, but the stupidity is pandemic so we got it here too.



ps Maybe it was to WARD OFF the snow!!!

[Volant]

I happen to agree with the sentiment that, more often than not, we've lost the capacity to objectively 'think', act and be accountable. Perhaps it's always been that way and as I'm getting older I just recognize it more. It seems like people WANT to be told what to do, rather than think for themselves, so if something goes wrong or isn't right, they can place the blame somewhere else. I'm sure someone told the salt/sand-truck driver to get out and salt/sand the roads even though it wasn't snowing. How do we change this mentality that seems to pervade our society?

[dogdriver]

Timing is everything...

[buck-50]

Nah, the city did the right thing. If they hadn't salted and it had snowed, everyone would be all crazy about how they can't get to work or to school.

This time of year, its a total crap shoot.

Where I live, 2" of predicted snow can quickly and unexpectedly become 6-8", and has a couple times this year. So the city prepares for the worst.

What Gets me is this current meme of seeing government as both omnipotent and utterly incompetent.

We government should be smaller and spend less except when we want them to be bigger and spend more.

So, suck it up. They made a mistake, but likely if they hadn't salted and it had snowed, you'd be complaining about that.

[1happygirl]

I happen to agree with the sentiment that, more often than not, we've lost the capacity to objectively 'think', act and be accountable. Perhaps it's always been that way and as I'm getting older I just recognize it more. It seems like people WANT to be told what to do, rather than think for themselves, so if something goes wrong or isn't right, they can place the blame somewhere else. I'm sure someone told the salt/sand-truck driver to get out and salt/sand the roads even though it wasn't snowing. How do we change this mentality that seems to pervade our society?

+10 :beer:

Thanks for putting the 'critical thinking' element more eloquently than I did!!!

[rdparadise]

Round here lately, they've taken to dropping a saline solution on the roads prior to every storm. Anyway, that said, the local towns and Philly have been doing an excellent job of keeping our roads clear, even with the record setting snowfall.

Now, regarding Ti and MA. the school closings all revolve around our litigious society. At the first hint of snow, the schools close so that some parent or parents won't sue the school district and bus company when little Johny bumps his head in the school bus fender bender.

Just sayin....

Bob

[csm]

has anyone ever sued a school district for an accident on the way to school?
I've heard that theory around here too but can not find any instances of it actually happening.

[David Kirk]

Back when I lived in N.Y. it was common for it to snow then the sand truck would come by and drop sand onto the deep snow and then the plow would come by plow all the snow and sand off into your yard leaving a nice hard and smooth white road.

Not such good planning.

dave

[RPS]

I'm sure someone told the salt/sand-truck driver to get out and salt/sand the roads even though it wasn't snowing. How do we change this mentality that seems to pervade our society?
1) Get over the idea that we must always find someone to blame and hold accountable when things go wrong (i.e. – less than perfect) even when based on sensible risks.

2) Reduce law suits and the costs to cities when malice was not intended.

If they used common sense and didn’t salt because the probability was very small, but it snowed anyway, and just “one” driver lost control and hit a kid and killed them, would the city be liable for millions? Would the guy who made the decision not to salt be crucified?

It’s easier for decision makers to take a “too careful” approach since the consequential costs of their decisions don’t come out of their own pockets.

[RPS]

Now, regarding Ti and MA. the school closings all revolve around our litigious society. At the first hint of snow, the schools close so that some parent or parents won't sue the school district and bus company when little Johny bumps his head in the school bus fender bender.
+1000

We can't have it both ways.

[snah]

1) Get over the idea that we must always find someone to blame and hold accountable when things go wrong (i.e. – less than perfect) even when based on sensible risks.

2) Reduce law suits and the costs to cities when malice was not intended.

If they used common sense and didn’t salt because the probability was very small, but it snowed anyway, and just “one” driver lost control and hit a kid and killed them, would the city be liable for millions? Would the guy who made the decision not to salt be crucified?

It’s easier for decision makers to take a “too careful” approach since the consequential costs of their decisions don’t come out of their own pockets.

Good point and nicely said. :beer:

[Volant]

1) Get over the idea that we must always find someone to blame and hold accountable when things go wrong (i.e. – less than perfect) even when based on sensible risks.

I actually don't subscribe to this school of thought - that "we must always find someone to blame and hold accountable when things go wrong." Sometimes, poop does just happen and nothing is perfect (not even my Serotta ;) ). What I was trying to say, is that my perception is that people don't want to be accountable for their own actions. However, that has a trickle-down effect that can lead to placing blame.

[sg8357]

What Gets me is this current meme of seeing government as both omnipotent and utterly incompetent.

When the Economy is in the Toidy, Populism Rules, meaning whatever
the Gummint does or does not do, the people will be p***ed off.

When things gets better, we can congressional hearings to blame
the people responsible for things getting better.

Or the Fireman analogy, Right now people are really angry with the
Fireman for trashing the house while putting out the fire and saving
the kids.

[JeffS]

I actually don't subscribe to this school of thought - that "we must always find someone to blame and hold accountable when things go wrong." Sometimes, poop does just happen and nothing is perfect (not even my Serotta ;) ). What I was trying to say, is that my perception is that people don't want to be accountable for their own actions. However, that has a trickle-down effect that can lead to placing blame.

Sorry, but if you're out driving around in the snow, lose control and hit someone you are 100% at fault.

I'm sick of the "oops" excuse being available to anyone behind the wheel of a 3000lb weapon.

[Ti Designs]

If it had snowed and they had not put salt and sand down you would be ranting, too.


Wrong. Conditions are what they are, there's no point in complaining about them. And I am responsible for my own actions, which means if I try to drive somewhere in a snow storm and get stuck it's my own damn fault.

The idea that salt and sand on the roads in the winter makes them safer is also wrong. I checked my towns police log for last wednesday, there were a few accidents reported. Most of them involved snow plows hitting things like parked cars or trees. The other ones involved loss of control due to - you guessed it, sand on the road.

But my complaint wasn't about sanding or not sanding. My complaint was that they made SEVEN passes down my street. You would think that 2 or 3 passes with a sanding truck would be more than enough when it's not snowing. In a world bent on the appearance of being "green" and saving the planet, how can driving around in giant trucks spreading salt be seen as anything but a huge waste of fuel, money and what good is that salt doing???

[Volant]

Sorry, but if you're out driving around in the snow, lose control and hit someone you are 100% at fault.

I'm sick of the "oops" excuse being available to anyone behind the wheel of a 3000lb weapon.

I agree.

[Tobias]

Or the Fireman analogy, Right now people are really angry with the
Fireman for trashing the house while putting out the fire and saving
the kids.
I doubt that’s the way many Republicans and Moderates feel, or why they are so angry.

To me it appears like the firemen went to the run-down house next door and trashed it enough so the owner – who happens to be a good friend of the fire chief – gets a brand new house from the insurance company.

And all the while the house next door, which was the one actually burning, was allowed to go up in flames because the owner – after all -- can afford to rebuild on his own without help.

It’s not as simple as just being angry for no reason.

[daker13]

Here in RI I saw pretty much the same thing: school cancelled, the trucks coming up and down the street all day long, and then hardly any snow until nighttime, and even then only a couple inches.

Providence has been overreacting to snowstorms ever since the storm in December the year before last. Just like this past storm, the DEM guy didn't look out the window: he admitted he was on his computer, and didn't notice that a huge storm was dumping outside. (He was held accountable: he got the axe.) For twelve hours I didn't see one plow on our street--a major street, too.

The biggest stink, however, revolved around the kids at school. The kids got released a couple hours early, but the roads were too bad and many buses got stuck. The parents weren't able to get to their kids, because they didn't know where the buses were on their individual routes. Some buses got stuck for seven or eight hours, and the kids had to pee on the floor of the bus. It was a total disaster. Rumor had it the plows were told to hold off until their overtime kicked in, due to some labor dispute. Not sure if that was true or not, but there were few if any plows on the street. Fortunately my daughter was in private school at the time and I had picked her up myself.

No real point here, except that it's way, way worse when they underestimate a snowstorm, rather than overestimate it. I'm certain that's why school got canceled last week where I live.

[fiamme red]

.

[pbjbike]

I do miss the anal retentive road clearing in MA :). In the Denver and Boulder area, low traffic residential streets are not plowed, main roads maybe once or twice a storm. It's rare to see clear pavement after snow. People learn quickly how to drive in bad conditions, or not...

[sg8357]

And all the while the house next door, which was the one actually burning, was allowed to go up in flames because the owner – after all -- can afford to rebuild on his own without help.

It’s not as simple as just being angry for no reason.

Fireman only know the house is on fire, they don't know why the house is
on fire, that the residents were cleaning bike parts in vats of gasoline,
while running space heaters. So if the Firemen were x-arsonists, at
least they knew what to do prevent the the block from burning down,
if the they saved the idiots cleaning parts, so be it.

[RPS]

.
I agree that it’s Obama’s fault, at least in time.

Today he is proposing building new nuclear power plants, which will reduce CO2, which will reverse global warming, which will increase snow fall in MA. He may no longer be in office in about 20 years, but I want to blame him in advance for Ti’s rant in 2030. ;)

[itsflantastic]

When I first saw what this post was about, I thought it was going to address the fact that Fox News, Donald Trump, and who knows who else all used the recent snow storms down in the mid-atlantic to proclaim that global climate change is not real. . .

I think steven colbert addressed that the best:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/11/colbert-rips-fox-news-for_n_458075.html
Here in Maine it hasn't snowed in about a month and I'm wearing a t-shirt today.

[Tobias]

When I first saw what this post was about, I thought it was going to address the fact that Fox News, Donald Trump, and who knows who else all used the recent snow storms down in the mid-atlantic to proclaim that global climate change is not real. . .

Everyone knows global climate always changes. Of course change is real. How stupid do you think we are? :no:

[MattTuck]

Ti, was into wheelworks the other day but you apparently weren't around.


anyway, you know that local government is still petrified by the memory of the Blizzard of 78. Since that is what they're afraid of, it makes sense that they go overboard.

Also, blame the local media. They never saw a dusting that they couldn't pump up into Blizzard 2010! The town government watches the news and makes decisions based on inflated predictions.

[Bud_E]

When I lived in NY state, they used to salt the hell out of the roads if there was even a hint of bad weather ( lots of rusted out cars and trucks to prove it). It was rumored that the guy who owned the salt company had the local politicians in his pocket.

[deechee]

I live in Montreal, where we usually have a healthy amount of snow, and school only closes if it really really snows a lot. (I probably had snow-in days maybe twice in my lifetime?)

I think the last two years we've had a lot of snow so the city went deep into the red to have the roads cleared. This year I believe they increased the minimum amount of snow to 15cm or something before they even start clearing the stuff. So I'm happy if a salt truck or sand truck passes by. I definitely don't like driving behind one or getting pelted by one while I'm on the sidewalk but its much appreciated.

Salt and sand help a lot, especially in places that aren't used to snow. I'm assuming the temperature is hovering near 0C/30F and the snow is constantly melting and getting re-frozen. It really makes walking a pain, and the roads are more dangerous than when its -20C. At least when its -20 my tires are relatively dry. Salt is pretty magical when you have an ice storm and your walkway is covered in .5 inch thick ice.

[csm]

I agree that it’s Obama’s fault, at least in time.

Today he is proposing building new nuclear power plants, which will reduce CO2, which will reverse global warming, which will increase snow fall in MA. He may no longer be in office in about 20 years, but I want to blame him in advance for Ti’s rant in 2030. ;)

finally some truth and common sense! :beer:

[torquer]

I doubt that’s the way many Republicans and Moderates feel, or why they are so angry.

To me it appears like the firemen went to the run-down house next door and trashed it enough so the owner – who happens to be a good friend of the fire chief – gets a brand new house from the insurance company.

And all the while the house next door, which was the one actually burning, was allowed to go up in flames because the owner – after all -- can afford to rebuild on his own without help.

It’s not as simple as just being angry for no reason.
I guess I just haven't been to enough tea parties (or watch Faux News), but could you explain that analogy so that even us effete elitists can understand what all the "Moderates" are up in arms about?
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:61I0JYFtfskh0M:http://myapologies.files.wordpress

[1happygirl]

Okay we went from idiocy in sanding roads to house fires. I'm confused. Again. :rolleyes: