R.A.D. cleat alignment?

[DonH]

Has anyone here heard of the R.A.D. cleat alignment system? Any comments positive or negative? Im switching pedals and shoes and want to get the proper positioning in the most effective manner.

[Matt Barkley]

DonH - What kind of pedals are you switching from/to? - Matt

[sspielman]

Earlier this winter I bought a tool to aid in cleat mounting. It is made by an Italian company, "Bici Support". It consists of a couple of female-threaded openings onto which the pedals are mounted. You then clip your shoes in. The frame of the tool has a plexiglass grid marked on it as well as a line marking the location of a straight crankarm. By using the grid, even pedals with a rotaional feature can be accomodated for cleat adjustment. It is a great tool for those of us who are very concerned about precise cleat adjustment and replication between different shoes.

[DonH]

Matt- Im switching from Speedplay to Shimano SPD-SL

[musgravecycles]

Earlier this winter I bought a tool to aid in cleat mounting. It is made by an Italian company, "Bici Support".

Where'd you get it at? Website?

[Matt Barkley]

DonH,
I hope your switch from Speedplay(Zeros or normal?) to SPD-Sl goes well. The Shimano is a solid pedal. The Rotational Adjustmant Device is good for the following: If you need your toe-in/toe-out set up on your cleats and are not confident or patient enough to the them on your own. (Most if us, argueably all of us, are not.) Like so many "fitting" issues, you would ideally find someone who has a good "fitting" sense and experience with the R.A.D.. Keep in mind overall bike set-up, pedal-cleat for-aft adjustment, and any pedal "canting" like the Lewedge/Big-Meat are not included - though can be examined and added at the time of a R.A.D. Good luck. :)

SSpeilman is refering to a Bicisupport product he purchased from my business at a Wectminster, MD bike Swap Meet. This product is EXCELLENT if you know where you like your cleats and need to set-up a new pair of shoes.

:beer: - Matt

[Ti Designs]

The RAD pedals are nothing more than a measuring device. It's pedal with a centered pivot and two indicators - one floats with the top plate (attached to the cleat), the other is fixed to the spindle block and acts as a reference. A cleat fitting is simple in concept but should be done by someone with a good understanding of biomechanics. Step 1 is to place the ball of the foot over the pedal spindle (I'm avoiding medical terms as I can't spell any of them). Step 2 is to watch the rider pedal and adjust the angle of the cleats so the two indicator rods line up. Step 3 is to figure out what to do when they don't - this is where the good understanding of biomechanics comes in, and it would take me a few days to go over everything I check or adjust for.

My shop still doesn't have the adaptors for the Shimano SPD-SL cleats - as I'm guessing many shops don't. That doesn't mean that the use of the RAD pedals is somehow invalid, and there are ways around that. I do the fitting on a pair of look cleats (which we have the adaptors for), put a straight edge across the back of the cleat and draw a line using a marker. Given a mark for ball of foot and a line indicating cleat angle I can mount any type of cleat.

[Peter]

Hey Don,

Ti Designs explains the R.A.D. device really well. You basically attach your shoes to these pedals and adjust the cleats until the floating rod moves equal amounts fore and aft of the fixed rod or just moves minimally with respect to the fixed rod, which is on axis with the pedal axle. It's assumed that this position will offer the least amount of stress to the knee joint.

I had it done back in the early 80's when fixed cleats/toe clips and straps were the norm, and with these features a R.A.D. device made a lot of sense. However, with today's floating cleats, I think the R.A.D. device is not very necessary unless you opt for a pedal brand's fixed cleat, when available.

[Ti Designs]

I had it done back in the early 80's when fixed cleats/toe clips and straps were the norm, and with these features a R.A.D. device made a lot of sense. However, with today's floating cleats, I think the R.A.D. device is not very necessary unless you opt for a pedal brand's fixed cleat, when available.


Yes and no. If the pedal has lots of float (SpeedPlay) there's not much need to nail down center. The Shimano SPD-SL pedals all come with the rotational cleats, the reason I came up with my method of using the R.A.D. pedals for them was that I had to do a number of refits because the rider was outside the rotation range. Even with a rotational pedal, there's no down side to using the R.A.D. pedals, they simply insure that your normal pedalling angle is in the center of the rotation.

[Ozz]

How often should someone have their cleat position checked?

I did the RAD positioning about 8 years ago, and I am sure that thru several cleat changes I have messed up the positioning. I also did not have them repositioned when I got my new bike in 2003, which has me a little further behind the bb than my old bike.

I've recently started to have some discomfort in my left knee, and think it might be my cleat positioning....I feel like my foot is being pushed outward at the bottom of the pedal stroke.

Thoughts appreciated....

[Ken Robb]

Hey Ozz, it might be old age too--don't ask me how I know this.

[Ti Designs]

How often should someone have their cleat position checked?

I did the RAD positioning about 8 years ago, and I am sure that thru several cleat changes I have messed up the positioning. I also did not have them repositioned when I got my new bike in 2003, which has me a little further behind the bb than my old bike.

I've recently started to have some discomfort in my left knee, and think it might be my cleat positioning....I feel like my foot is being pushed outward at the bottom of the pedal stroke.


To answer your first question, if you have any discomfort in your knees, it's probably time...

With SPD-SLs you would have to mess up the position pretty badly before you notice much. The trick is to put a straight edge across the back of the cleat and draw a line on the shoe. Then when you replace the cleats, always work from the same line.

The foot feeling like it's moving out sounds more like a hip-knee-foot alignment thing than a rotational problem. I've been running into this more and more as Q factors get smaller. Time to go see someone who understands how alignment works. Without seeing you on a bike, I can't offer any good advice (I try not to give lots of bad advice).

[Ozz]

To answer your first question, if you have any discomfort in your knees, it's probably time...

With SPD-SLs you would have to mess up the position pretty badly before you notice much. The trick is to put a straight edge across the back of the cleat and draw a line on the shoe. Then when you replace the cleats, always work from the same line.

The foot feeling like it's moving out sounds more like a hip-knee-foot alignment thing than a rotational problem. I've been running into this more and more as Q factors get smaller. Time to go see someone who understands how alignment works. Without seeing you on a bike, I can't offer any good advice (I try not to give lots of bad advice).
Time?? You mean I'm getting older? I didn't sign up for that!

I have the campy pro-fits...changed to these in 2003 with new bike. Old bike had Shimano branded Look pedals. The cleats are essentially the same shape, so I did what you described and mounted the campy cleat where the old Look cleat was.....and probably didn't do a very good job of it.

The feeling is that at the bottom of my pedal stroke, my left foot want to pointed "toe-in" (pigeon-toed), like my right foot is but the cleat keeps it pointing straight ahead. My left leg is pretty beat up from old injuries...my knee is the only part that was still working normally!

I figured I need to go see an expert, but I thought I would check here first. Anyone know an expert here in Seattle?

[chrisroph]

Matt--Can you provide more info re the bicisupport cleat alignment system? Is there a web site you can direct us to? I would love to add to my toolbox a tool permitting repeatable and quick cleat alignment.

[Matt Barkley]

bicisupport makes repair stands, display stands as well as these cleats alignment tools. (They also make this cool sizing machine that takes the standard anatomical measurments - DeRosa designed it...) - I assume you googled it - but I will look at my literature and get back to see if I can find more info for you, phone # do you speak Italian? - address, maybe a web place too! :beer: gotta go through my stack of cycling-related measurements/literature.... With a Stella Artois in hand... Cheers - Matt

[chrisroph]

I did a quick google and got a bunch of italian sites, which I cannot read. If you know of any domestic suppliers, I'm interested.