Pro Level Quality

[MattTuck]

My wife is thinking about buying a bike, and we are no trying to decide which component group to purchase.

As I look at the various groups from different manufacturers, I am left wondering (aside from weight), what are the real differences in performance from one year to the next, and from one group to the next.

We are currently looking at the 105 for her. My question is this: During what year(s) was the quality of components ridden by the professionals equivalent to current 105 groups?

[Pete Serotta]

Keep in mind that equipment gets very abused and ridden mega miles...most of us can not put a groupo under that severe of a test.

It is difficult to say what year 105 equivalent equipment was used by teams. Reason for this is what is the criteria you are using in comparison? weight(not a good judge for lighter is usually more fragile.) Hubs? for 105 work but are probably not as smooth as others - even old campy or dura ace.

Bearings? Brakes? etc In my view it either works or does not work.


105 works well...... My preference for max functionality, smoothness, and longevity verses price of equipment has been Ultegra for many years....

I am hearing the new Sram Force is good also....


With my S&S travel bike and all the abuse it gets, my first choice was Ultegra and it has been trouble free for 3 years.

[vqdriver]

there's nothing to justify about 105. or rival or centaur for that matter.
it's all good stuff.

[AndrewS]

While there has always been an apparent difference in durability between different levels of Shimano gear, I don't think the same holds as true for Campy and SRAM. SRAM in particular seems to differentiate it's three levels by weight saving materials and finishes, but I think the underlying mechanisms are pretty much the same. I'm certainly very pleased with the quality of their Rival group, especially since I'm a bigger fan of shiny aluminum than carbon.

By the same thinking, I would also be happy to ride Campy Centaur, even though it has 4 (or is it 3?) groups above it. It will last a long time.

I would say that the current 105 stuff is probably better overall quality than just about any of the Shimano 9 speed vintage. I had some Dura Ace 9 that really seemed kind of chintzy. I'm sure others might disagree.


Another way to go with Shimano is to break up a group. Derailleurs, brake calipers and BBs are very trouble free and not greatly different in weight, so why not use 105 for them and choose Ultegra or Dura Ace shifters for their enhanced durability? The cranks are all going to last the same; it comes down to whether she needs a lighter or stiffer crank than 105 (not that there's much wrong with 105 cranks). Or you could go with a third party crank like FSA or something.

The money you save buying non-Ultegra calipers and derailleurs can be put toward a better wheelset. Have fun!

[djg]

My wife is thinking about buying a bike, and we are no trying to decide which component group to purchase.

As I look at the various groups from different manufacturers, I am left wondering (aside from weight), what are the real differences in performance from one year to the next, and from one group to the next.

We are currently looking at the 105 for her. My question is this: During what year(s) was the quality of components ridden by the professionals equivalent to current 105 groups?

People have stories about this but I don't know that there's any way to give a really good answer, except sometimes on the level of an individual component.

From year to year, changes may be nil, minor, or large, and they may be more relevant ergonomically, functionally or both. Campag might change the shape of their levers or move from 9 to 10 to 11 speed; Shimano might change lever shape a little, add a 10th cog, or offer an electronic option (if only for a pretty penny and only in DA initially). Most years, 105 functions a very great deal like ultegra and DA, and Centaur functions a very great deal like Chorus and Record (although now SR, R, and Chorus are 11 speed and Centaur remains 10). There are weight differences, although not huge and maybe not at all noticeable unless you've got a good scale. There may be some slight differences in feel. On my road bike, I've got record 10 shifters and rd; on my cross bike, I've got chorus shifters and a centaur 10 rd. I don't notice a difference in shifting while I'm riding. The thing about the Shimano differences is this: she can walk into almost any bike store anywhere and try every level in the line. Personally, I'd think about the frame first, wheels second, and parts kit third. Bottom line? A pro tour frame (if that's what she wants) fitted with pro tour wheels and tires and 105 or Centaur will ride like a pro tour bike -- a current pro tour bike. A mid-level specialized frame with aksiums and dura ace will ride like a mid level bike, which may be terrific or even a better fit in one way or another, but it will be markedly different from a pro tour bike.

But then there's this: if it would bug the sht out of her to have the third-tier group, and the two of you can afford a higher tier . . . well, that might be a bunch of money spent to acquire a little nagging dissapointment at the back of the head.

[veloduffer]

It doesn't fully trickle down. Truthfully, the drivetrain lineups of Shimano, SRAM and Campy all work well. You really need to be hard on the bike to get things to break with any frequency. I know very good racers who use Shimano Sora and any other parts that work. The stuff is reliable. It's mostly about finish (polished vs painted) and weight.

Like others have posted, worry about the frame and wheels. The rest is all good and more aesthetic.

[sevencyclist]

It depends on which frame the parts are going on. Leather seats in a Yugo does not make the car any nicer, whereas Maserati with vinyl seats would be out of place.

The price difference is $300 between Shimano 105 and Ultegra 6700 at Competitve Cyclist. If the gruppo is going on a Motiv frameset, I might go with the 105. If you are getting a Ricahrd Sachs, I would go with Ultegra. Both gruppo will work well and for a long time, just consider how the parts will go with the gestalt of the frame. My 2 cents.

[vqdriver]

one thing that may be worth considering with shimano is the newer lever designs. with DA and ultegra going with the new shape and hidden cables, 105 becomes the highest level "old" style.
so....... if that bugs her...

but other than that, there's no reason to not get 105 just because of the shimano hierarchy.

[echelon_john]

IMO SRAM Rival is the best value currently. You didn't mention how proficient a cyclist your wife is or what type of riding she wants to do, but for the casual cyclist up through entry level racing there's absolutely nothing about Rival that would be an obstacle to performance.

If she rides a ton, you can upgrade at some point to a lighter cassette, new chain & new rear derailleur as things wear if it seems necessary. The brakes should be more than adequate.

A humble recommendation from someone who has fit lots of bikes and who also has a spouse who rides occasionally but not all that enthusiastically ;) is to really focus your energy and, if necessary, $, on the interface items: Seat, Shorts, Shoes, Pedals, Gloves & Bars. These will make more of a difference to an entry level rider's pleasure and encourage continued cycling than almost any other factors, assuming the bike is sized correctly.

i.e. Putting a Di2 group on your wife's bike with the wrong saddle would probably lead to a worse experience/outcome than 105/rival/whatever with really thoughtful choices (and maybe a couple of plan Bs) for the items she'll be in contact with.

my 2¢--good luck!
John

[MattTuck]

Thanks all.

Seems to make sense what most people are saying. My wife will not (atleast, I don't THINK she will) ride more than 1,000 miles a year, and most of that will be with me... but maybe she'll surprise.

This is more to have an activity outside that we can do to be together and for fitness.

That said, I'm not looking at anything very high end. There is a Ridley Boreas on sale nearby equipped with Veloce components, and a mid/low range specialized equipped with 105 for roughly the same price (around 1200-1300).

So my main reason for posting was to get a feel for the differences between groups in some metric that is standard (ie. how many years does this trail the pro level equipment) not to insinuate that she needed pro level equipment. I don't count weight as a difference between groups until I/we get down to below 10% body fat... which won't be for a while.

I hear what people say about spending money on frame/wheels and bars/saddles/shorts, and I understand the rationale. My experience growing up was always that my friends who had cheapo bikes had a lot less fun than me with my smooth shifting shimano xt group, mainly because when I told my bike to shift, it did. When they told their bikes to shift, their chains fell off.

Maybe the technology has come a long way since then, and all the groups work pretty well now.

Thanks for the advice.

[John M]

There is a Ridley Boreas on sale nearby equipped with Veloce components, and a mid/low range specialized equipped with 105 for roughly the same price (around 1200-1300).

I've ridden extensively on Veloce and 105 (also on Chorus and Ultegra--Record or DA has always been above my budget) and raced 105 in cross. Both work well and are good values. I think the choice between those two comes down to which shifter feels better in the hand and which mechanism (Ergo vs STI) she prefers. The other primary consideration is bike frame fit. A secondary consideration might be what other wheels/cassettes you have in the house (Campy or Shimano compatible) that she might share.

[dogdriver]

No self-funded serious rider/racer (who doesn't have unlimited funds from another source) I've ever talked to has used better than Ultegra-- many think that it is more durable than DA.

The Serotta fit guy at the local big boy shop says that he puts more thought into the color of his new bike than the component group-- and uses 105 exclusively with no complaints.

She'll have to be an awfully strong rider before the few ounces of weight saved by going beyond 105/Rival/Centaur make a difference.

Its all good-- I agree with the previous post that asserts that the hand fit of the different brands' shifters is a more important decision than what level to use...

My $.02, Chris

[fourflys]

I think you have to think about how you like (or would like her) to shift when talking about the different makes...

I used to ride Shimano and then tried Campy and fell in love with the ability to dump the cassette when cresting a hill... Not sure your wife would care about that...

from all accounts I've read and from racing 105 this year in cross, it seems pretty bulletproof to me...

BTW- I LOVE my Chorus 11sp, the hood ergos are spot on for me...

[pjmsj21]

A humble recommendation from someone who has fit lots of bikes and who also has a spouse who rides occasionally but not all that enthusiastically ;) is to really focus your energy and, if necessary, $, on the interface items: Seat, Shorts, Shoes, Pedals, Gloves & Bars. These will make more of a difference to an entry level rider's pleasure and encourage continued cycling than almost any other factors, assuming the bike is sized correctly.

i.e. Putting a Di2 group on your wife's bike with the wrong saddle would probably lead to a worse experience/outcome than 105/rival/whatever with really thoughtful choices (and maybe a couple of plan Bs) for the items she'll be in contact with.

my 2¢--good luck!
John


Very wise words.... My wife is a recent cycling convert of about three years ago and has really gotten into cycling (she did Ramrod with me last year) and I know for a fact that she would not be able to tell the difference between 105 (which she has btw) and any of the higher levels of components. But to echo John's comments she easily can tell and has preferences between shorts, saddles, shoes (she likes Sidi now) and the other accesssories that really can make or break her riding experience.

Pat Mc

[pjmsj21]

A humble recommendation from someone who has fit lots of bikes and who also has a spouse who rides occasionally but not all that enthusiastically ;) is to really focus your energy and, if necessary, $, on the interface items: Seat, Shorts, Shoes, Pedals, Gloves & Bars. These will make more of a difference to an entry level rider's pleasure and encourage continued cycling than almost any other factors, assuming the bike is sized correctly.

i.e. Putting a Di2 group on your wife's bike with the wrong saddle would probably lead to a worse experience/outcome than 105/rival/whatever with really thoughtful choices (and maybe a couple of plan Bs) for the items she'll be in contact with.

my 2¢--good luck!
John


Very wise words.... My wife is a recent cycling convert of about three years ago and has really gotten into cycling (she did Ramrod with me last year) and I know for a fact that she would not be able to tell the difference between 105 (which she has btw) and any of the higher levels of components. But to echo John's comments she easily can tell and has preferences between shorts, saddles, shoes (she likes Sidi now) and the other accesssories that really can make or break her riding experience.

Pat Mc

[Elefantino]

There are a few ways to go here.

1) Buy the most expensive group, period. Then you'll never worry about not having bought enough group.
2) Buy the least expensive group, period. Then you'll never worry about having spent too much money.
3) Buy what you can afford and what feels good. Then ride lots.

[pdmtong]

assuming the nice low end of the major 3...rival..105...centaur/veloce...buy the cheapest and focus on the fit/touch points. if she likes riding you can sell the group and upgrade. if she doesnt, you arent out the bucks.

[RkyMtn]

After many years and getting my wife into this activity, I have come to the following conclusions:

1. It is generally a good buying decision to check the ergonomics of the brake/shifter levers of each group within your budget from all three manufacturers and see if this is a deal-breaker. Buying the best shifting, best crank, best braking group when your hands ache from the hoods is putting money in the garbage disposal.

2. Next, compare how the front derailleur shifting performs.

3. Then, do the brakes perform to your liking. Test with emergency brake tests.

Then buy the best Campy group that your credit card will allow. (LOL)

From my experience, here how I see things ranking:
- Front derailleur shifting: Shimano #1. Campy #2. Sram #3. (Sram shifts fine, but shimano is the fastest and Campy next fastest.
- Braking: Shimano #1, Campy #2, Sram #3 (Campy and Sram are toss-ups, but shimano has been the bench-mark for a while.)
- Cost for repairs: Campy #1 (LEAST Expensive as you can replace parts), Between Sram and Shimano, I think they are both component replacements, so the cheaper of the 2 is likely to be second.
- Rear Derailleur shifting: I think it is hard here on this one, as they all seem to do very well, but I think SRAM has the edge in the durability under stress since it was from a MTB design. If you are buying a cross bike, I'd pick SRAM.
- Overall Durability: Campy #1, SRAM #2, Shimano #3 (Campy get better with age, Shimano is at it's best when it leaves the shop, Sram, I don't know, but given it's MTB roots, I would have to give it a step above shimano.
- Best Group from each (Value for the dollar): 1. Campy Centaur Alloy ($799), 2. SRAM Rival ($750), 3. Shimano Ultegra ($899) [all current year groups - but prior years on these are perfectly satisfactory and I'd shop online for an 09 or 08 in any of these for a discounted price. Also sign up for special deal emails from the large internet retailers to get notices of 10-20% opportunities.]

As for your question on what year did the pros use Dura Ace that is now the current 105 group, this is not how it works. The lower groups might be one, maybe 2 model years behind the top drawer group, or it might be the current one. The difference is usually in the materials used. The Top shelf components need to light and durable enough to get through a race. The Lower end group needs to be reliable and cheap to produce. So the lower end group will have more, lower grade material than the top end group. Here is an example:

Campagnolo:
Record brake shifter will be High modulus carbon with titanium.
Chorus has similar carbon, but stainless steel instead of titanium
Centaur has lower modulus carbon, carbon plastic resin, stainless steel and alloy

I don't think the pros ever had access to a group back in the day that is the current 105 group. I'd love to know if this is not correct, but given what I do know, this is what I am betting.

I have the Campy all alloy on my travel, off-season, rain bike. It has been neglected from good servicing practices. It keeps on keeping on and I am very satisfied.

The winning points that moved me to Campy,
1. Multiple rear cog shifts per stroke BOTH up and down the cassette.
2. Campy chainrings and crank spider are precise. I have been through SRAM and FSA cranks that always seem to wiggle and rub my front derailleur cage no matter where the cage is positioned. So, that ended SRAM as a consideration.
3. Campy has front derailleur trim
4. If something breaks on a component, I can get it fixed. I don't have to buy a whole new component. If the shifter breaks out of warranty, that is big bucks for Shimano. I just had my old 06 Centaur shifter repaired for $55 when the indexing failed. If I had Ultegra, that would mean a new shifter, and if I couldn't find a matching one in the forum, I might have to by a set to not have mismatching hoods (feel and length of reach.)
5. Campy, from my experience using both Campy and Shimano, seems to have the longevity edge. Just get smoother as time goes by. Shimano seemed to get worse performing with time (I'm comparing at rear derailleur shifting performance from my '85 Campy Triumph and '90 Stowe that is on it's second rear derailleur - first one got too loosey-goosey for the indexing to work properly and had to be replaced.

I think that covers my thoughts on this matter.

Cheers,

Eric

[AndrewS]

After Eric's thoughts, I must chime in and say how impressed I've been with SRAM's front derailleur design. I have no idea about it's shift speed, but it is the only FD I've ever had that doesn't require the use of the trim feature. Unless you're in a near crossover gear, it doesn't rub through the normal shifting range. That's nice.

I am using Ritchey cranks - but that's a separate issue from the design of the FD cage.

But I will say that I've heard more than a few Campy rebuild success stories. That's pretty cool. Though it seems funny to me to buy a brand for durability and then have half the parts made from epoxy resin and carbon.

[soulspinner]

Just go Campy and get it over with. 20000 miles(notkms) on a group and still going strong :)

[djg]

Thanks all.

Seems to make sense what most people are saying. My wife will not (atleast, I don't THINK she will) ride more than 1,000 miles a year, and most of that will be with me... but maybe she'll surprise.

This is more to have an activity outside that we can do to be together and for fitness.

That said, I'm not looking at anything very high end. There is a Ridley Boreas on sale nearby equipped with Veloce components, and a mid/low range specialized equipped with 105 for roughly the same price (around 1200-1300).

So my main reason for posting was to get a feel for the differences between groups in some metric that is standard (ie. how many years does this trail the pro level equipment) not to insinuate that she needed pro level equipment. I don't count weight as a difference between groups until I/we get down to below 10% body fat... which won't be for a while.

I hear what people say about spending money on frame/wheels and bars/saddles/shorts, and I understand the rationale. My experience growing up was always that my friends who had cheapo bikes had a lot less fun than me with my smooth shifting shimano xt group, mainly because when I told my bike to shift, it did. When they told their bikes to shift, their chains fell off.

Maybe the technology has come a long way since then, and all the groups work pretty well now.

Thanks for the advice.

Matt, you know if this is the choice, then it's really a choice between bikes. There's fitting, and getting things dialed and all, but the components should all work just fine and she may vastly prefer one bike to the other. Test rides can be over-rated in lots of ways, but if the shops will do a rough fit and let her try the bikes, she may find herself very attracted to one and not-so-much to the other. Even staring at them a bit may promote a preference. Then you should get the one she wants. Tell her King Eddy, in his heyday, would have killed for either parts group. Don't tell her that it's literally true.

[Dave B]

I would also say what feels good in her hands. Shimano has some pretty big shifters in small hands where SRAM and Campy tend to be a little smaller.

If you wife thinks she likes the feel of the hood ergonomics of one over the other that can probably be a major factor.

You really can't go wrong with any group. Cost, function, whatever. If you choose or better yet allow her to choose then you are making a good situation better, if she doesn't care, then get her a cheap group and better wheels and tires.

[Benjamin]

everything has already been said here, but i'll throw in my vote for SRAM Rival. great quality, great ride, great price.

i bought a brand new 2010 Rival group on eBay using the Bing cashback program, it came to around $600.

i haven't built that bike yet, but i'm planning on running yokozuna cables to spruce up the shifting.

hard to beat that.

[benb]

Pros get to replace stuff more easily when it wears out then the rest of us. And their mechanics spend way more time on the maintenance them most of us, ensuring the parts live a babied life.

I don't think actual riding is the wear and tear on some of the components. Sometimes it's the wrenching. For brifters it's the riding. For deraiullers it often seems to be the wrenching. For brakes I think it's the riding. Especially rear brake wear from bad weather riding.. on a bike with no fenders the rear tire throws grit into the pivot points for the brake caliper, then when you activate the brakes the grit slowly works it's way into the mechanism.

SRAM Rival really does not hold up to wrenching on a bike that gets dirty, is used in rain, salt, etc.. as SRAM cheaped out on the fasteners. Heck I have SRAM X.10 on my MTB and they even cheaped out on some of the fasteners there.. I can no longer open the rear cage on my deraiuller for cleaning as the fasteners have fallen apart.

Shimano has better fastener quality overall IME. But for example on my current Ultegra group my rear brake is starting to fall apart at the cable fixing area.. they went a little too weight weenie there. Still functional but I worry about the cam to open the brake popping clean off.

I found the SRAM deraiullers to have a real weak point in their cable fixing design.

A counter point is SRAM puts 2 sealed bearing pulleys on Rival's rear deraiuller, Shimano doesn't do that even on Ultegra.

Arguing about "performance" of components is so silly. The weight or function of components has probably rarely decided a race. Equipment breakage is probably a much bigger factor. And for people who aren't racing buy based on what will last the longest, not how light it is.

I haven't tried Campy.. maybe it is time. Cause most of annoyances would be solved by a group that has easily acquired replacement parts. Even if they are more expensive it is such a shame to not be able to repair SRAM/Shimano stuff.

[JMerring]

If you are getting a Ricahrd Sachs, I would go with Ultegra

as a matter of principle and good taste, a sachs shouldn't have anything other than the best gruppo available, preferably of italian origin. atmo. :)

[chuckred]

I've ridden extensively on Veloce and 105 (also on Chorus and Ultegra--Record or DA has always been above my budget) and raced 105 in cross. Both work well and are good values. I think the choice between those two comes down to which shifter feels better in the hand and which mechanism (Ergo vs STI) she prefers. The other primary consideration is bike frame fit. A secondary consideration might be what other wheels/cassettes you have in the house (Campy or Shimano compatible) that she might share.

The rear shifter is just starting to get a little bit balky. I trashed one rear derailleur due to pilot error. Otherwise, after 10 multi-thousand mile years in all weather and not particularly fastidious care, I can't say it ever slowed me down compared to a higher end version.

She'll be fine with it! And, I'd say the Ridley is a good way to go (of course assuming it fits!).

[oldpotatoe]

After Eric's thoughts, I must chime in and say how impressed I've been with SRAM's front derailleur design. I have no idea about it's shift speed, but it is the only FD I've ever had that doesn't require the use of the trim feature. Unless you're in a near crossover gear, it doesn't rub through the normal shifting range. That's nice.

I am using Ritchey cranks - but that's a separate issue from the design of the FD cage.

But I will say that I've heard more than a few Campy rebuild success stories. That's pretty cool. Though it seems funny to me to buy a brand for durability and then have half the parts made from epoxy resin and carbon.

FD is so good that many pros use a Force FD instead of the very flexy, ti caged, Red model. AND so good that Sram 'added' trim instead of taking it put(like 7900/6700). Sorry, I think the FD 'action' of sram is a weak point.

Campagnolo carbon parts, even if made from glue and carbon strands, are very durable.

[oldpotatoe]

everything has already been said here, but i'll throw in my vote for SRAM Rival. great quality, great ride, great price.

i bought a brand new 2010 Rival group on eBay using the Bing cashback program, it came to around $600.

i haven't built that bike yet, but i'm planning on running yokozuna cables to spruce up the shifting.

hard to beat that.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CAMPAGNOLO-ATHENA-11spd-GROUP-2010-NEW-IN-BOX-CAMPY_W0QQitemZ330367980196

Worth the $, IMHO-

[endosch2]

Last summer I re-speced my wifes 1993 Raleigh Competition Technium with new stuff. It had the original ultrega from 1993 with 8 Speed STI, and weighed about 23.5 pounds. She is not very techy and said she did not want me spending too much (like 2-3K) on the bike, she is more of a runner and was not planning on riding much. In the last 15 years she has maybe done 1000 miles. She likes mountain biking more than road riding. My wife is super-fit and weighs about 115. In running races she usually is a top 10% finisher. We had talked a lot about it and she thought she might ride more and was OK with investing some money in the bike, especially as I started with some of the parts.

Anyway, enough background, I slowly introduced new parts - she noticed the seat - really liked it. It was a Selle Italia Lady SLK. She also noticed the tires - she had old contis with wire beads and I went to Pro Race 3. She said they felt a lot faster. I upgraded the the wheels and other components. I used Campy 10S Centuar and mounted them fairly high so they are flush height - wise at a surface level with the top of the bar (though still on the reach obviously) on a Ritchey Pro 40 CM Bar. She liked the Campy shifters and the position of them. I used new and used parts that I had for everything else. Anyway - I never thought she would get back into it but it really made a difference - we rode about 500 miles together including some 3+ hour rides. The bike came down 4 lbs in weight and is comparable to what I would have gotten if I spent the same thing on a new Trek / whatever $1300 road model.

[fourflys]

as a matter of principle and good taste, a sachs shouldn't have anything other than the best gruppo available, preferably of italian origin. atmo. :)

I think Ritchie would argue that point as he is a total SRAM guy now... :)

[Dekonick]

For part availability you want ShimaNO. If you do your own wrenching (and I suggest you learn as it is fun, and easy as well.) you can go with any of them. Personally, I like Campagnolo because of the Ergo's. I like using the thumb lever and love the solid feel it gives when you change gears. I also find it is easy to work on.

Record vs Chorus vs Centaur vs Veloce - all are good. I find the sweet spot is Centaur for price and availability. I don't bother using anything other than Veloce cassette's and chains - a few grams isn't going to make any difference I will notice and the cost difference is significant.

www.probikekit.com - a good place to source your Campy components. You can also use totalcycling.com (deals aren't quite as nice, but availability is better) Some use ribble, but I had my CC info hacked using them so buyer beware. Unfortunately, sourcing Campy in the US costs more so your best bet is the sites listed. They have all been reliable in the past (minus the CC hack - and I don't think that was Ribble... I believe it was an outside hack)

For Campy in the US I have used lickbike.com (lictons) - they are good folks. I am sure there are others.

BTW - any of the groups you mentioned work just fine - 105, rival, Ultegra (the sweet spot in Shimano) Centaur or Veloce - what matters more is a bike that fits with good wheels. I would spend more on the frame and wheels than the components - save and use Veloce or 105.

Good luck!

[MattTuck]

Thanks all for the advice.

We just got back from the store (International Bicycle Center in Newton, MA) with a new bike, Ridley Veloce with Campy Veloce components.

I've always had shimano (both mt. and road), so this is the first non-shimano group under my roof. I hope it behaves!

[RkyMtn]

Thanks all for the advice.

We just got back from the store (International Bicycle Center in Newton, MA) with a new bike, Ridley Veloce with Campy Veloce components.

I've always had shimano (both mt. and road), so this is the first non-shimano group under my roof. I hope it behaves!

Congratulations! I worked at the Allston store back in 1990 while I was at school at BU.

Cheers,

Eric

[Marcusaurelius]

I think 105 is good stuff but I always look to ultegra for durability and value. The only time I have swung towards dura is the new 7800 crankset (old now).

I also campagnolo centaur is solid stuff but I've akways thought the older alloy chorus stuff was worth the extra cost.

[soulspinner]

FWIW new 105 previewed on Cyclingnews is lighter, has a few improvements(internal cable routing included), and is cheaper than last year....