Discussion about chain lubes without...

[toaster]

...mentioning brand names?

Is it possible?

What makes a good lube for road bike use in good/dry conditions? Oil based, teflon, wax, synthetic, light oils vs. heavier oils, grease???

For example, a gear oil at 90w seemed ideal but really picks up grit. A light PFTE stays clean but does it retain lubricant for very long? Synthetic, seems like no different than organic.

Any good reason for one over the other?

[AndrewS]

I have used a "dry" lube for many years. The liquid is only a carrier to deposit a film of teflon based stuff that is designed to break off as it becomes dirty. The chain runs quiet, is less dirty than an oil based lubricant and seems to be doing the job as none of the parts it's on have worn any faster than normal. It is definitely far less dirty than any sort of oil I've come across.

It doesn't protect against corrosion in really bad conditions. So winter salt and melt cycles makes me go back to oil.


Chain lube is one of those things that no one really gets to scientifically try out in large volumes, so all you're ever going to hear about is what appears to be working for those who have tried whatever. Which is too bad.

Don't ever mix lubes (on purpose). If A+B= a much better C, then someone would already be selling C. But it is more likely that A and B are just going prevent each other from working as designed.

[toaster]

Chain lube is one of those things that no one really gets to scientifically try out in large volumes, so all you're ever going to hear about is what appears to be working for those who have tried whatever. Which is too bad.



I know. I am so tired of anecdotal nonsense and testimonials about a lube after one week of use. Where's the science?

[GBD]

I have been using PG2000.
Apply in on chain, wipe off.
after 200-300 miles, if the chain is dry, re-apply.

[dekindy]

The advantage would only depend on the weather conditions. Lubes that do well in wet generally don't as well when it's dry and vice versa. Other lubes that may not be as good in wet or dry might perform better in colder temperatures. I don't know if it is a good analogy, but different temperatures require different types of ski wax. Use the wrong wax and your skis will have lots of friction.

The exception would be the lube that I use, which is superior in every way and in all conditions. Bet you will ask the brand name now and I am not going to tell! :p

[AndrewS]

I think the dry lubes do have the potential to work in all temperatures and in the wet. But corrosion protection is just not something normally needed and they don't do it.

The question of "what lube?" really just comes down to how much mess it makes, not you well it actually lubricates. The cleanest stuff that lubes as well as the cheapest oil is usually going to win with most folks.

[Steve in SLO]

Dekindly,
Yours could not possibly be better than mine. To wit:
Mine:
Mineral spirits : 30wt oil (or synthetic multi-visc if you're feeling rich)

Cold conditions: 4:1*
Hot conditions: 4:1*
Dry conditions: 4:1*
Wet conditions: 4:1*
*Or thereabouts

The above mixture has been carefully tested by yours truly.

Results:
I am 50% as fast as I would like to be under all conditions.
Therefore this mixture performs equally well under all conditions.

[dekindy]

Dekindly,
Yours could not possibly be better than mine. To wit:
Mine:
Mineral spirits : 30wt oil (or synthetic multi-visc if you're feeling rich)

Cold conditions: 4:1*
Hot conditions: 4:1*
Dry conditions: 4:1*
Wet conditions: 4:1*
*Or thereabouts

The above mixture has been carefully tested by yours truly.

Results:
I am 50% as fast as I would like to be under all conditions.
Therefore this mixture performs equally well under all conditions.

You should try oil specially formulated for turbo engines. It will absolutely make you faster. I swear to God! Trust me! :D

[RkyMtn]

I have used just about everything. I liked the dry lubes as the chain kept cleaner longer, and I am a B-I-G fan of low maintenance. Only thing that was irritating was that there was significant drivetrain noise with the dry lube compared to the oil based.

The a cycling nut told me about a product called #umonde Tech (now what was that first letter,.... was it a 'D"?)

Best compromise and my bikes work great! Drivetrain is quiet and does not seem to be collecting dirt like the other oil lubes I have used.

Ok, so why can't we recommend great products by name, but can state bike names, model names, component names...?

(shrug)

Eric

[toaster]

A test that would be helpful is if a lab were to get new indentical chains, strip them of all lubricants, set them up on identical new chainrings and new cassettes with the same tension and run motors on them at the same speed for hundreds of hours with various products and deliver the data of wear incurred.

Until I see results like these I'm going to take lubricant endorsements with a big old grain of salt.

[RkyMtn]

A test that would be helpful is if a lab were to get new indentical chains, strip them of all lubricants, set them up on identical new chainrings and new cassettes with the same tension and run motors on them at the same speed for hundreds of hours with various products and deliver the data of wear incurred.

Until I see results like these I'm going to take lubricant endorsements with a big old grain of salt.

I agree with your lab request. I saw a lubricant demonstration from the firearms manufacturer Wilson Combat. They wanted to have a lube oil and grease that was the best and saved wear on their (and everyone's) firearms. They did a bearing load test where they applied a levered force of a static metal bar to a spinning metal wheel. they coated the wheel and bar in all sorts of lubes to see when the lube would break down and the friction of the bar on the wheel would stop the wheel. They finally came up with an oil and grease that would not cause the wheel to stop. Here is the link to the products they developed.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/a_ultimalube.asp

The video I saw was one a friend showed me that he received along with his 1911 purchase. They would probably sell a lot of lube if they had this available on YouTube.

Cheers,

Eric

[Louis]

They did a bearing load test where they applied a levered force of a static metal bar to a spinning metal wheel. they coated the wheel and bar in all sorts of lubes to see when the lube would break down and the friction of the bar on the wheel would stop the wheel

Whenever I hear about a test like this I always wonder how representative it is of the actual application. In this case, compared what we need, there was no rain, no dirt, etc. etc.

[toaster]

Chances are that Wilson's Ultima-Lube might be better for our chains than 95% of the chain lubes out there.

As far as real world conditions, rain, dirt, etc., that would be easy enough to introduce to testing. First I'd want to know testing existed for the bicycle chain application.

[Elefantino]

... without mentioning brand names?

Is it possible?
Apparently not.

What makes a good lube for road bike use in good/dry conditions? Oil based, teflon, wax, synthetic, light oils vs. heavier oils, grease???
In good dry conditions? Anything. As long as you clean and lube regularly, anything. It's like drivers who change their oil every 3,000 miles. Anything works.

Any good reason for one over the other?
Not that I can think of, except price. YMMV.

[Dave]

A lot of people find that a mix of mineral spirits or naptha with oil works quite well and costs pennies per ounce. The idea is to use 2-5 parts solvent to 1 part oil, so only a small amount of oil remains after the solvent evaporates. One problem with it is both solvents evaporate slowly. Lubing right after a ride to allow close to a day of evaporation time helps, but it actually takes several days for all of the solvent to evaporate. Oil choices run from motor oil, to chainsaw bar oil and gear lube. I'm using synthteic gear lube in my mix, but I used synthetic motor oil for years.

There are other solvents that can be tried for much faster evaporation, but some could damage paint, so it would be critical that most of the solvent evaporate before riding the bike. Lacquer thinner with gear lube will evaporate quickly. Acetone will not even mix with the oil.

Lube tests rarely duplicate actual riding conditions where there is always some grit to contend with. A lube might do well if the bike is riddne indoors, but lousy out on a dirty road.

My conditions are dry, but gritty. That seems to cause above average amounts of roller wear, but has never caused rapid elongation (pin and bushing wear). I work on the theory that any lube is quickly contaminated with grit and needs to be flushed out and replaced. To do that, you apply generous amounts of thinned lubed and/or clean the chain often. A drop of lube every 2-300 miles just adds some lube to the dirty area inside the roller.

I actually did perfrom one lube test in real world conditions and proved that the oil in WD-40 does a poor job as a chain lube. I used it exclusively for 1500 miles and get far more elongation than I'd ever seen on a Campy chain. Normally, it's not even measureable with a precision rule, over a 12" length, at that mileage. I honestly expected it to work much better. It has about the same percentage of oil in it as my normal homebrew mix.

[palincss]

A test that would be helpful is if a lab were to get new indentical chains, strip them of all lubricants, set them up on identical new chainrings and new cassettes with the same tension and run motors on them at the same speed for hundreds of hours with various products and deliver the data of wear incurred.

Until I see results like these I'm going to take lubricant endorsements with a big old grain of salt.

However that test would not replicate real world conditions and would be of very limited usefulness. You do not ride with the same chain tension and same speed uninterrupted for hundreds of hours in an environment devoid of environmental contaminants such as grit, moisture and salt. If you did, it'd a perfect test -- but then, IIRC that test has already been done, sort of, a few years ago and they found lubricant made no difference at all. I guess the take away is, if you do all your riding in a test tube in a laboratory, you don't need chain lube.

[toaster]

Recently, there was an ad for a boutique chain lube product that looked like it contained a HP Gear Oil (high pressure) and was reported to have a strong odor (like gear oil does) so I tried homebrew version and it picked up lots of grit. Light oils don't seem to pick up this amount of grit so I decided heavy lubes are going to have this problem.

Evaporative carriers and PFTE teflon seem to run really clean but I wonder about how long the teflon stays in the important spaces, besides what oil does so well is to fill the space between metal on metal and thus creates a cushion (therefore lubrication).

Wax is something that doesn't sound practical. So I'm left to wonder if the ideal is light oils or teflons?

[Dave]

The lubrication specialist who posts on this site occasionally doesn't think much of dry lubes or teflon.

With a heavy gear lube homebrew, applying it too often or not thinning it enough, definitely increases the amount of grit that gets picked up. I wipe my chain after every 50 mile ride to minimize the lube left on the exterior of the chain, but you can't get in between the plates and that's where I see a lot of sand particles clinging.