speedplay frogs - are these things working right?

[gt6267a]

so, i just bought mtb shoes and pedals. the shoes, carnacs, fit just like my carnac road shoes that i bought 10 years ago. very cool.

anyway, when i clip there is no positive feedback that i'm clipped-in. my foot seems to be in the right place and i rode for an hour today without problems, but it's like i'm barely connected. when i clip-out there is no feedback that i'm disengaging the pedal. is everything ok?

i have speedplay x2 pedals and it's clear when i'm clipped-in and when i've clipped out. it's not the same deal with the frogs. is there a problem here or is this the way it is?

thanks,
keith

[Ray]

so, i just bought mtb shoes and pedals. the shoes, carnacs, fit just like my carnac road shoes that i bought 10 years ago. very cool.

anyway, when i clip there is no positive feedback that i'm clipped-in. my foot seems to be in the right place and i rode for an hour today without problems, but it's like i'm barely connected. when i clip-out there is no feedback that i'm disengaging the pedal. is everything ok?

i have speedplay x2 pedals and it's clear when i'm clipped-in and when i've clipped out. it's not the same deal with the frogs. is there a problem here or is this the way it is?
I had Frogs for years, several pairs, and could generally tell when I was clipped in. If the cleat isn't mounted flat to the shoe, which happens with some shoes, you can get the symptom you're talking about where you're never sure if you're clipped in. This usually, but not always, means you're not fully clipped in and you should be careful of releasing when you pull up hard on the pedals. I'd check with Speedplay about whether your shoe has known problems. There should be a discernable click - not as loud or obvious as with SPDs or ATACs, but clear nonetheless.

As to the release, this doesn't cause a click at all. You twist and when you get past a certain angle, you're out.

-Ray

[M_A_Martin]

The short answer is: No, you're not getting full engagement, trim the sole of the shoe around the cleat until you do.

The long answer:
I rode speedplay frogs on my mtb for four years...because I was positive that I loved them and they worked. I don't and they suck...

I rode mine with the clips backwards for the first six months, (they came used with no instructions and I had the bike shop install them the first time...they had never seen a pair...ooops. Now that I've admitted *that* stupid gear error )
and the correct direction for the second, third, and fourth years...they sucked a bit less in the correct direction. They were fine for touring, but really really sucked for mountain biking (no Mary Ann, tell us how you feel...)

on to your question of the day: Click, no click.

Speed play Frogs don't "click" like regular cleats, but they do kind of thump-click. More a feel than a sound if you know what I mean? If you examine the cleat, you'll see that the mechanism is a rubber wedge under a flexible portion of the cleat that compresses until the cleat is in the correct position, then it releases. So there is a little bit of a click, but not the extent of Atacs, Looks, Eggbeaters, or any other regular clipless pedal.

What I found when I had no "click" of any sort was that the sole/tread of the mtb shoe was blocking the full engagement of the cleat. The circle of the pedal wasn't fully back in the triangle of the cleat...if you get what I mean? Or the other issue was the tread was hitting the pedal body and wasn't allowing the circle on the pedal to fully seat in the cleat.

Put the shoe on the cleat without your foot in the shoe and see if you have tread interference either on the edges of the circle or the body of the pedal, see if you can get it to engage the whole way...if not, carve out some of the tread on the shoe around the cleat and you should finally get some sort of "click". I use a knife, I know some who use a dremel tool...

It took me quite a bit of carving on the tread on one side of the cleat to get full engagement. (long ago and far away, this used to be an issue on some spds as well...)

I like the thought of Frogs, I like the float of Frogs. I like my Eggbeaters SO much better, even for road. They have the float, positive engagement, and my shoes have never been left on the bike when I endo with them (as they have with Frogs), so they have reliable disengagement as well. And the cleat doesn't make you duck walk..

I know you didn't ask, but did I mention I really dislike the speedplay frogs?


I hope you find your "click"

[gasman]

I find this discussion really interesting- thanks Mary Ann for your subtle thoughts. :rolleyes:
I have frogs on my commuter and my mtn bike. I have really liked them (I thought) but I also am getting disenchanted with them after staying clipped in after going down on my mtn bike last summer. I just thought it was cuz I'm a klutz but I'm glad to hear others have the same experience. I am concerned that if I get cut off commuting and go down I may not release and may have more injuries to myself.
What pedals for mtn biking or commuting would others recommend ? MA clearly votes for eggbeaters.
Thoughts?

[Don]

Try SPD 959 pedals. Lite, easy dual sided entry, and just about fool proof.

[gasman]

Try SPD 959 pedals. Lite, easy dual sided entry, and just about fool proof.

Fool proof-----THAT'S what I need !

Thanks

[M_A_Martin]

Gasman:

Sorry to say, both you and I *are* klutz's...but I too am glad in a way to hear that I'm not the only one that's gotten stuck on the frogs.

That's what really got me disgusted with them was loosing shoes on endos and them not disengaging on stupid little Artie Johnson style mtb crashes...and if you dab, or walk on a gravel road, the cleats get gravel packed little stones that can keep the pedal from engaging. All it takes is a tap on the chainstay to get rid of the offending gravel...and that was fine on my one mtb, but it isn't a practice I like to keep up!

Crank bros Egg Beaters are pretty much fool proof. You don't have to "flip and find" the engagement, all sides engage, so you just slide your foot over them and the click in. Just like all pedals, it takes some practice. A better thing, that I just adore that I haven't found in any other pedal is their total lack of getting clogged with mud or stones. It just doesn't happen.
And pro roadies even use them. The only issues I've heard is that there is a break in period, but it isn't long, and they can produce a hotspot on shoes with flexy soles, and a concern about the size of the platform for power transfer. I've experienced the break in issue, but now that my one set is broken in, I can't tell the cheap ones from the expensive ones.
See if you can borrow a pair to try out. (the other bonus is the steel set is relatively cheap.)
I don't know the wear issues yet. I've only ridden them one short season.

Oh, for my commute I've switched over to some big ole high end BMX platforms. The only problem with those is there is no float...those prongs on the pedals really hold your foot in one place! (and you can't "pull up" but that's ok, I haven't had any of the clipless issues on my commute since I started riding with those)


OH, one klutz related issue I have with the egg beaters...if you totally miss the pedal when you're getting on your bike, and you wind up hitting the pedal with your instep on your way past...it hurts a lot. I've only done it twice...

[Ahneida Ride]

So far no problems with the Frogs. I use em on my Legend.
Engagement is positive and easy.

I tend to release, as the pedal is decending, at the bottom of the stroke.

I love the Float and so do my knees. Do the eggbeaters offer such a generous amount ?

[Ray]

In my earlier response, I forgot to mention that I loved frogs..... for everything except mountain biking. If you like the Speedplay float, they were great for every bike I owned, road, touring, fixie, commuter, etc, EXCEPT for my mountain bike. I never had trouble with the engagement except when the cleat got some mud, sand, dust, whatever, on it. Just terrible then. You could never tell when you were in and when you weren't. And, like others have mentioned, they release easily, but ONLY in one direction. In a panic, when you can't twist your foot, you absolutely cannot just rip your foot out of the pedal, like you can with just about any other pedal. I had more than my share of low speed falls because I couldn't get a foot out.

For most uses, they're great if you can solve the shoe issues (I had no problems with most of my shoes - I think I had one pair of Specialized once that I had trouble with). But stay away from them for mountain biking - the use they were supposedly designed for.

-Ray

[Ahneida Ride]

If you purchase Frogs. Constantly practice releasing.

It's got to be instinctive.

[kenyee]

Gasman:

you totally miss the pedal when you're getting on your bike, and you wind up hitting the pedal with your instep on your way past...it hurts a lot. I've only done it twice...

Try the Candy's. Probably doesn't hurt as much and you can ride in them w/ non-bike shoes, though they feel a little slippery if you try going really fast in non-bike shoes. Only negative is you have to hack off a lot of tread (though probably less than w/ the Quattro) to get them to work...


ken

[gasman]

If you purchase Frogs. Constantly practice releasing.

It's got to be instinctive.

I've had frogs for 8 years and can easily get in and out of them-except when mtn biking it seems. Never had a problem on my commuter.
The problem seems to be getting off balance and then not being able to get out as I'm going over. Not really sure why because I clearly rotate my foot, just not enough to unclip.Don't even talk about endos-I've never unclipped during one and have left my shoe on the pedal while ripping my foot out of the shoe.Ok, I am a klutz on my mtn bike.
I use X1's on my road bikes so I'm used to rotating out and I love them.

Thanks for the good info. I'll try some eggbeaters for my mtn bike per Mary Ann's suggestion and get some SPD 959 to commute.

Anyone want some frog pedals ? They really have good float. :D :D

[shralp]

speedplay frogs were the worst pedal experience i've ever had. unexpected release at times, lack of release at others, no obvious sound/feel of engagement.

their road pedals on the other hand are fantastic.

best mtn. pedals i've used are a tie between spd and time. the spd's are easier to get into than time but they can get mucked up and trap you sometimes. i've never had the times trap me.

[Ahneida Ride]

Yea, I can appreciate how the Frogs may not be on one's Top Ten List. ;)

But the Float ... Ah the Float ...just ton's of it. My knees need it. :p
Others will never accomodate to Frogs. :no:

I do keep cleats, shoes and pedals spotless and well lubricated. :)

I suspect that Frogs are a better Road pedal then Mountain. :rolleyes:

Pedals, like saddles are quite personal. :confused:

Hey as always .... discount my comments, my knowledge is limited. :D

[gt6267a]

well, i was out on the trail today with my mtn biking friend. clearly, they are not setup right as my foot came out every time i got nervous, but not always when I wanted them to. ARGH. Of course, since this was my first first time off-road since riding a bmx bike as a kid, there was a lot of unclipping on purpose or not.

in general, i was way too timid and my lack of speed was actually causing more problems than being cautious might have helped. finally, i got frustrated and sped up to attack the trail a bit and things started going my way.

i probably crashed 3 maybe 4 times, nothing major. more of the "wait, what am i doing? it's really rocky. there appears to be no traction. should i do something? no, it'll be ok. no, i think there is a problem. what do i do about said problem, should I let off the brakes, start pedaling, shift gears, jump up and down, phone a friend on my mobile ..." i would end up on my side before figuring out what to do. Ultimately, if i had just left off the break things probably would have been much better.

2 of the crashes were from clipping my handlebars on trees. I was already on the ground when the inner monologue started, "dumb-***, did you not see there was a freakin tree? a tree. a big round huge can see it from like 10 miles away tree. it's not like a child on a tricycle popped out of no where. jeez, you are an idiot. how about not hitting the trees any more? Maybe next time you’ll ride your road bike into building at the back of a parking lot. Dumb ***”

clearly, the pre-and-post-crash inner-monologue is a place for sarcasm. I’m pooped. It’s time to crash.

[SoCalSteve]

Had them on my wifes road bike and she would consanttly disengage for no reason at all. Very frustrating. If you dont need the float, try SPD's. If you do need the float, try the X's or the Zero's. Problem with them is that you need road shoes.

I sold my wife's pair off and now she has Zero's. I love them on all my bikes, she has a hard time clipping in.

I just bought her a pair of X's and after the Solvang Century, I will put those on her Melin and hopefully this will be the last pair she ever needs. (we can only hope).

Good luck...Frogs suck,

Steve

PS: We did notice that if you keep them sparkly clean, no dust, grime,anything, they tend to work much better. Not all that great for MTB...

[M_A_Martin]

gt6267a:

If you rode BMX as a kid, why not get some Atomic Lab or some such BMX pedal for your "learning to mountain bike" adventures. Good BMX pedals work well for the trail when you're learning and still bashing trees. Actually, I'll probably be riding them all year this year with my knee recovery issues...(I'll be wearing knee and shin guards as well...)

I know a lot of people who say that clipless, or even toe clips are better than flat pedals on an mtb, but the more I ride them, the more I'm happy to be riding my Atomic Lab pedals...they stick well...you can't pull up (like you need to do to hop the back of the bike around) and they have no float, but I can step off the bike super easy...and at first, that will be my biggest concern while mountain biking...just to get over my crash heebie jeebies.

Good luck!
Mary Ann


Oh, on Candys...Some of the things I love about the freedom from dirt in the crank bros would probably be lost in the candy's...and there's that whole "only two sided" thing...I like the "click in anywhere" feature of the crank bros. I'm getting spoiled....