2010 Campy questions

[Alan]

Just had a few questions about availability for the new 11 spd Athena groups. I couldn’t find anyone online who has the new 12-29 cassette with the Athena group. Anyone know when they may be available? I was also looking at the Veloce 10 spd group. I don’t really see a lot of downside to going Veloce as it looks like the ergos are the normal (non-quick shift) type levers that are capable of going up or down multiple gears at a time. There is a 10spd 13-29 cogset that would work well w a compact 34-50 as I have significant hills to climb.

Any thoughts about 2010 Veloce vs. Athena? It would be fun to be first on the block w 11spd but I don’t see a whole lot of reasons not to go w Veloce if I can find what I want at a reasonable price. The finish is better on Athena than Veloce. I have a used Fierte steel frame to build so either one will work well.

Thanks,

Alan

[sjbraun]

I thought I read that the 12-29 will only be available in Chorus and Record levels initially. My memory says the Athena grade cassette will appear later in the year.
Earlier in the week, I was talking to a mechanic who works in a well known, high-end shop here in Tucson. I was surprised by how vehemently he expressed dislike for Campy 11 speed. He said he's removed it and replaced it with 10 speed Campy on several customer's bikes. I haven't read any negative comments but 11 speed, but he was adamant in his disdain for it.

Steve-who likes Campy 10 speed just fine.

[Dave]

I see quite a few advantages to Athena. With a compact crank, I would consider a 50/12 top gear to be minimal and a 50/13, just not enough. I've got my winter bike setup with a 12-27 11 speed and really miss my 50/11 top gear.

The Athena chainrings are a higher level product and so is the Chorus cassette that is used with the Athena group.

Unless you know for sure that you can't live without a 34/29, I'd try the 12-27. Otherwise, wait a few weeks and the 12-29 will probably be available.

I notice that Licktons lists the 12-29 for $255, compared to Ribble's price of $102.

[Dave]

There is no Athena level cassette. Athena uses Chorus cassettes and chains.

The disdain for 11 speed makes no sense at all to me. I've read nothing but glowing reports from users. I've got three bike with 11 speed and had no problems at all. I've read a lot more complaints about the 10 speed ultrashift levers - mainly the vague right finger click (revised for 2010). It's also been found that mating '07-'08 Centaur or Veloce RDs with the new ultrashift lever may not work well either, due to a weak spring in the RDs orginally mated with escape shifters.

The new ultrashift levers (10 and 11 speed) are sensitive to cable friction you must use Campy or other 4mm low-friction cable housing or you will have problems. Tight bends are a no-no. I've found that Shimano cable housing works well with the ultrashift levers.

I'm just now getting some reports on chain life that are quite good. I'm projecting slightly less chain life, but other users who apparently ride in less gritty conditions are getting better life than I ever got from a Campy 10 chain.

[dana_e]

I also see no issue with 11. That said, Veloce is dirt cheap and quite nice.

I have the 2009 Veloce Ergo shifrters, thay are softer feel click, but work fine. I saved the campy shift/cables for future use, usdef regular 4 mil housing and SS cables, works fine

if you have the cash, go athena

[dana_e]

11 will be the standard for campy

centaur and veloce 11 are coming, in my opinion

one more cog is sweet. D

[cody.wms]

The chorus 11 speed 12-29 cassette is supposed to ship in Feb. or March. Haven't seen a firm date off hand.

[cody.wms]

I was surprised by how vehemently he expressed dislike for Campy 11 speed...


Odd, I only heard good things from early adopters, and have had good luck personally. Was there any particular reason for this dislike?

[fatallightning]

There is no Athena level cassette. Athena uses Chorus cassettes and chains.

The disdain for 11 speed makes no sense at all to me. I've read nothing but glowing reports from users. I've got three bike with 11 speed and had no problems at all. I've read a lot more complaints about the 10 speed ultrashift levers - mainly the vague right finger click (revised for 2010). It's also been found that mating '07-'08 Centaur or Veloce RDs with the new ultrashift lever may not work well either, due to a weak spring in the RDs orginally mated with escape shifters.

The new ultrashift levers (10 and 11 speed) are sensitive to cable friction you must use Campy or other 4mm low-friction cable housing or you will have problems. Tight bends are a no-no. I've found that Shimano cable housing works well with the ultrashift levers.

I'm just now getting some reports on chain life that are quite good. I'm projecting slightly less chain life, but other users who apparently ride in less gritty conditions are getting better life than I ever got from a Campy 10 chain.

using a shimano type generic cable works fine in campy ultra low friction housing correct?

have you found running the shifter cables along the front instead of around the back helps shifting performance? i know noticed justin spinelli of svelte cycles does this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/fatallightning/svelte04.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/fatallightning/svelte02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v33/fatallightning/svelte01.jpg

[derekshred]

I just did my first race today after finishing my new 11 speed build and the only complaint I have is that in some of the bigger cogs(with the 12-25 cassette), the ratios are so close that I sometimes wasn't sure if I has shifted or not. Other than that I totally loved it.

The new Veloce group is great. I just build a Surly Pacer with Veloce for a customer and I was really impressed. The shifting was nice and crisp. Same comfy hoods as my Athena 11's. The veloce Skeletons stop and modulate as good as the higher end ones. I am a fan. If I was building up a budget bike for myself, Veloce would be my go to group.

edit: I can't say whether or not it has an effect on the shifting, but I have been routing both cables through the front because it's proven to be much easier to route the cables through the shifter (the bend of the cable inside the hood is less dramatic) and I find it to be more comfortable having both cables in the front than having one on either side.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4295444591_5616db9cf8_b.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

I thought I read that the 12-29 will only be available in Chorus and Record levels initially. My memory says the Athena grade cassette will appear later in the year.
Earlier in the week, I was talking to a mechanic who works in a well known, high-end shop here in Tucson. I was surprised by how vehemently he expressed dislike for Campy 11 speed. He said he's removed it and replaced it with 10 speed Campy on several customer's bikes. I haven't read any negative comments but 11 speed, but he was adamant in his disdain for it.

Steve-who likes Campy 10 speed just fine.

Wonder why. The shift innards are the same, just a thinner chain and cogs. I have installed many 11s systems with no problem whatsoever. Granted, the 10s UT shifters are now clickier but riding the 2, just another gear is the difference between 10s and 11s, UT levers.

In my experience, routing the der housing behind the hbar makes for better shifting. You can use any 4mm housing but still need a der cable for the RH lever with a small head. LH lever it just sits in a shallow indentation but the RH lever goes into a deeper 'hole'.

[sjbraun]

My memory failed, (like that's a surprise?)
From the Campy website:

"The 12-29 cassettes will be available starting from November 2009 for the Super Record™ and Record™, and from February 2010 for the Chorus™."

A previous poster ws correct, no 12-29 Athena cassette, at least for now.

Like many of you, I haven't heard of any problems with 11-speed, (excepting what I heard from the local mechanic.) Who knows, maybe he was trying to pump up a customer who was discussing a Campy 10 wheelbuild.

Steve-no problem with 11 speed except that upgrading all my Campy bikes to the same system would cost more than I care to spend

[Dave]

About the cog spacing. The only difference between 10 and 11 speed 12-25 cassettes is the 18T cog included with 11 speed. The 19-21-23-25 jumps are all the same.

About the cable routing. I've never tried the front routing because I use short reach bars that would create a sharp bend in the housing, right behind the brake hood. There should be no difference in comfort because the new placement of the housing insures that neither one creates contact of the housing with the hand - unlike the previous models. Using the rear routing, I roll the housing under the bar as it transitions toward the middle and exits at the front of the bar, not the back.

I can't recommend just any 4mm housing. I was sent an old Campy cable set with my first pair of ultrashift levers and was forced to try something else, since that housing is too large. I had some Jagwire 4mm housing and found that it did not work well for the RD. The extra friction caused hesitation in the shifts to smaller cogs. I always use genuine Campy cables. I've bought cheaper cables with the Campy style heads, but found them to be coarsely woven and stiffer than Campy. In a pinch, I'd grind down the head of a Shimano cable.

[Pete Serotta]

but I would recommend the CAMPY cable and housings. They are a "constant" and work well.

[shinomaster]

I have the new Veloce on my old cross bike and the shifters, crank and brakes are just black versions of Centaur (and Centaur is super great) and they work very well. The shifters are extremely comfortable and braking is much improved over the previous generation. I prefer the shifting on the older campy stuff unfortunately.