Richard Sachs bikes?

[roguedog]

Hey guys,

I keep seeing threads and ride reports on Pegs, Serottas (of course), Vanillas/Speedvagens, Bruce Gordans, Arognaut, Gaulzetti, etc. However, for the time that I've been on the forum, I haven't much on Sachs bikes yet the man seems legendary, has a 5 yr wait and is no longer taking orders.

So.. how come not much on Sach's bikes? Are they just so rare?

Any ride reports on these bikes? (I'm not considering one. This is more out of curiuosity. Though he does have one in my size :cool: )

[Blue Jays]

There are a few threads here & there about Richard Sachs bicycles.
You will see them occasionally or with a broader search.

[Gothard]

I have one. They are great bikes.
He stopped taking orders, so the people who wanted one and did not get in faded away.
And the builder migrated to other pastures with a lot of his disciples, so is not talked about much here any more.

[legacysti888]

A vintage 80s road and a 08 CX.

Awesomeness of steelness. :p

[Ray]

Oh yeah. As good as it gets. EVER. But since he's not taking orders, he's not part of any new bike buyer's thought process any more. Hence, he's not the topic of conversation much.

But in all the years I've been reading about custom bikes, he and Tom Kellogg (among the small one or two man shops) have always been universally loved by folks who have their bikes. In recent years, a few other names seem to have risen to the top tier (Kirk, Strong, Vanilla, Bedford, Goodrich, maybe a few others), but for a long time Richard and Tom and maybe Peter Weigel and Mike Barry were the only names you heard consistent praise for. I have a couple of Tom's bikes and its not hype - he has an incredible eye for how to match rider to frame. Richard does too - I wish I had one of his also but his waiting list was just too long back when I was thinking about it.

-Ray

[Mr. Squirrel]

who?








oh yes, the red bikes. i have a pile of them under my tree...no front wheels of course. if you can haul them, you may have them.

mr. squirrel

;) :) :rolleyes:
:cool: :p :)

[veloduffer]

I fulfilled my dream and got a Richard Sachs 25th Anniversary bike, where the lugs were hand-filed. I waited 7 months (back in 2001) for Richard to build it after visiting his shop in Chester and getting fitted. I brought my Merlin to show him how I fit and rode on the bike, and had a good idea of what I wanted. One of my fav bikes was the Bridgestone RB-1 (1993 yellow with a cool Ritchey crown fork) and loved the way it handled; unfortunately I was bit in-between the stock size of the RB-1. I like a slack seat angle (long femur) and prefer a stable ride to a quick handler.

The shop is small with a nice showroom of articles and frames in production. It's what you think of a one-man shop would look like - a throwback or where building is a craft. His workspace was surprisingly small (it might be bigger at the new shop in Mass). It kind of reminded me of the cobbler shop in my old neighborhood.

One of the biggest dilemmas was choosing the paint scheme - go with the traditional red/yellow/white or something else. After being in the shop, I went with the traditional paint scheme - it's a wet red paint look from Joe Bell that is just beautiful.

I put Campy on the bike and it's been a dream to ride. Fit is spot on and it handles like it's on a track - this is the bike you'd want racing down a mountain side at over 50mph (I've done 49 mph at Bear Mtn/Harriman Pk with it).

It feels lively but not wimpy and not jarring. I've owned a lot of bikes (Giant, Trek, Seven, Merlin, Waterford, Gunnar, Bianchi, Gios, Rivendell, Specialized, Serotta, Cannondale, Bridgestone) with different materials and this one was worth the wait and the money.

Sachs bike (http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php?photo=213&size=big&cat=&si=sachs)

[srice]

I received my Sachs frame in Feb 2003 and it is without a doubt the best bike I have ever owned. A year or two ago a friend of mine asked me to describe what makes it so good. My answer was that when I ride it, I don't notice it. The fit is very comfortable. The bike goes where I want it to go when I want it to go there. There is absolutley no fighting this bike. This bike has carried me through 2 PBPs, 2 BMBs, LEL and the Cascade 1200 and over 40,000 miles since I put it together in Feb 2003.

If I was forced to limit my stable to a single bike, it would be the Sachs. This would include getting rid of other great bikes such as my Strong, and my California built Masi GC. We'll see how the 'Vagen fits in when it shows up in a couple of months.

Richard's order book is only kind of closed. He will still take an order from a prior customer. I jumped back in line about a year and half ago.

[fiamme red]

Richard's order book is only kind of closed. He will still take an order from a prior customer. I jumped back in line about a year and half ago.Are you ordering a different kind of frame from him, e.g., already own a Sachs road bike and are ordering a cyclocross bike?

[fiamme red]

Sachs bike (http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/showphoto.php?photo=213&size=big&cat=&si=sachs)Very nice! Wouldn't it be great if Campagnolo still made those shiny parts?

[veloduffer]

Very nice! Wouldn't it be great if Campagnolo still made those shiny parts?

Thanks - I went with alloy as well since it fit the aesthetic of the bike as well. At the time, I also had a choice of using quill or aheadset. I decided on the traditional as well.

I'm pretty sure that Athena (11 spd) and Centaur (10-spd) still have alloy options instead of carbon. But on Athena, the levers are alloy wrapped in carbon.

[jlwdm]

...

I'm pretty sure that Athena (11 spd) and Centaur (10-spd) still have alloy options instead of carbon. But on Athena, the levers are alloy wrapped in carbon.

You can use Athena and convert the Centaur levers to 11 speed if you want an all alloy 11 speed group.

Jeff

[rwsaunders]

RS is the consummate promoter, as well as being a cycling advocate extraordinaire. He's a bit brash, has strong convictions, is committed to detail, runs a number of blogs, sponsors a cyclocross team and races as well. The title of his DVD..."Imperfection is Perfection" tells a lot about him.

I don't own a Sachs and I'm not on the list but I can understand people's loyalty to his brand and product. He also seems to be someone who truly appreciates the respect that his customers, peers and sponsors have given him.

http://www.richardsachs.com

[sloji]

I bought a used Sachs about 5 months ago and when shipped UPS did what I thought was cosmetic damage to the fork but later turned out to be a bit tweaked, I wrote Sachs about it and he had me ship it to him and inspected it and said it was rideable but know it's there. Sachs barely knows me and i've never bought a new bike from him and he took the time to respond to my e-mails and offer the help, this from a guy who has a waiting list years long. Craftmanship is one thing and customer service another...kudos to Sachs.

[Lifelover]

I had the chance to ride one for a few days at one of the Finger Lakes Ramble. DBRK gracious loaned it to me and did not even make me fix the flat tire that I returned with on day 2. So while I'm in no position to give a detailed ride report I will tell you the impression I came away with.

Initially, I remember being very unimpressed. It just did not seem to do anything special. After reading all the BS about "gestalt", I was sure I would be blown away within the first few pedal strokes. That was not the case. After the first few minutes of being under impressed, the group ride started and I never gave the bike another thought.

It was not until I reflected back on the rides that I became more impressed. The bike did exactly what a bike is supposed to do. It allowed me to ride without even thinking about "the bike". I can't describe all the things the bike did right because I just didn't notice them. However, it is clear indication that the bike did nothing wrong. To truly lose oneself on a bike within the first minutes has to be a good thing.

ATMO, Richard knows that a bike is a relatively simply machine and if you keep the build within a set range of parameters it almost has to ride good. He is an accomplished frame builder and a Branding genius.

[Ray]

Yep, not noticing the bike is a good thing. And that wasn't even built for you specifically, which is when the REAL magic of a custom starts. Then they can kind of disappear and be exceptional all at once. Hard to describe kind of, but its so nice you're aware of it but when you don't want to think about it, its not there. I know Tom K can do that and I believe Richard can too, based on everything I've read and heard from people who've bought bikes from him. As well as a few others now.

-Ray

[veloduffer]

I think part of the lore is Richard's place in framebuilding history in the US. He (and Peter Wiegle) have a "six degrees" of separation between them and the top East Coast builders (eg Serotta, Chris Chance), and similarly for Brian Baylis on the west coast.

Also, Richard never expanded his production despite the increase in demand - it's a one-man shop with no apprentice or assistant. It wasn't to get rich but more to live a dream. I think with his reputation that he could have expanded the business like DeRosa or Colnago.

[fiamme red]

If I ever buy a used Sachs, I plan to equip it as far as possible with Sachs New Success components. :)

[gdw]

Mr Sachs is one of many talented builders and the BEST marketeer and businessman of any of the modern framebuilders. His use of the internet and this forum in particular to promote his brand was masterful. atmo

[tim11]

I'm always tempted to pick up one of the used frames he occasionally offers across the hall (since he's my size). Once of these days I might have to pull the trigger, but $4k for a 20-year old bike could be a hard sell with the wife...

[Pete Serotta]

He loves and supports the sport with all his heart. Additionally he is committed to building a frame that fits you and rides wonderfully.

Spokes and I had an opportunity to visit him a few years ago when we picked up our bikes... A true gentleman and old world craftsman.

:bike: :bike:

[Elefantino]

Be wary of men who wear red Ray-Bans while they weld atmo.

http://www.momentumplanet.com/files/imagecache/enlargment/files/images/lead/Richard.Sachs.jpg

I'm just sayin'.

[Gothard]

Mr Sachs is one of many talented builders and the BEST marketeer and businessman of any of the modern framebuilders. His use of the internet and this forum in particular to promote his brand was masterful. atmo

While I am a great admirer of his work, and remain convinced he is a genuine gentleman, his " web-presence centered" marketing strategy always rubbed me the wrong way.
Not that it matters, because the ride is there to silence all the rest.

[srice]

Are you ordering a different kind of frame from him, e.g., already own a Sachs road bike and are ordering a cyclocross bike?
Nope, own a road bike and ordering another road bike. Might get the second one painted something besides red, but probably not.

[Ahneida Ride]

Hey .... Mr. Sachs is at NAHBS despite a considerable expense ..

His waiting list is sold out, so he ain't there to make frns ...

ATMO has done much to support the sport of cycling. :beer:

----

and nobody but nobody abuses this phorum for "marketing" more then
me.

Oz been here a while, I never thought that Richard selfishly
promoted himself here. I hope he chimes in more often offering his
distilled wisdom on fit and function. :D

[fiamme red]

Oz been here a while, I never thought that Richard selflessly promoted himself here.Don't you mean "selfishly"? :p

[Ahneida Ride]

Don't you mean "selfishly"? :p

Dat's that what I mean ... and that why i ain't an English major ..

I can't type and I can't spelll. I edited and fixed it ... ;)

dang !!! :crap:

I also suffer from lexadixayphobia or something like that.

[GuyGadois]

A Sachs thread with only one ATMO !!! Wow!

ATMO,

-GG-

[pdmtong]

Yep, not noticing the bike is a good thing. And that wasn't even built for you specifically, which is when the REAL magic of a custom starts. Then they can kind of disappear and be exceptional all at once. Hard to describe kind of, but its so nice you're aware of it but when you don't want to think about it, its not there.

Sachs is Sachs. That goes without saying.
There are many great bikes that will disappear under you...try starting with the right fit, pick a high end frame with good wheels and good components...ride a lot, and it'll happen. the bike goes away, and all you worry about is pointing and not crashing.

[ti_boi]

Read all about it here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicycle-Guide-Magazine-Vol-7-No-5-Richard-Sachs_W0QQitemZ120516884245QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0f5db715#ht_764wt_1165

Not mine btw.

[Pete Serotta]

World wide recognition, The "seller" is in Taipei, Taiwan

Read all about it here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicycle-Guide-Magazine-Vol-7-No-5-Richard-Sachs_W0QQitemZ120516884245QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0f5db715#ht_764wt_1165

Not mine btw.

[rounder]

I already have two steel bikes. One is a standard size nhx with lugs and the other is a custom sized ciii, but built for someone else. Both of them are, for all practical purposes, good enough bikes for me. But, like lots of other folks, i have wondered what it would be like to have a bike built "just for me."

I had been to atmo's site numerous times and clicked on the pictures. Every one was beautiful. Some say he is too far out there (could not think of a better expression). Matters not to me...his bike build philosophy is everything i stand for. I bought his book, which is sort of like a coffee table book of the pictures at his site. I also bought his dvd Imperfection is Perfection which helps to show how the bikes are built and why they are built that way. He sent me stickers and stuff. I use his water bottle on most rides.

Then he announced for everyone interested to hear that, if you want a bike, get in line by... I almost did, i thought the anticipation of waiting for something you like would be fun. The deal breaker for me was that i already had two similar bikes i liked. If not for that, it would have been a done deal.

[DHallerman]

My Richard Sachs regret...

June 2001, I had an appointment on a Friday with Richard, to go to Chester, to get fitted for one of his bikes.

That Tuesday, though, I got laid off from my job, since all the magazines I was editing had folded during the dot-com recession.

I just couldn't go to Chester. I just couldn't buy a custom bike without a job.

You know, I probably should have just taken my severance pay and bought the lovely thing. In fact, by the time the frame would have been ready -- about 18 months back then -- I was employed again.

But, coulda, shoulda, woulda...

Dave, who likely would have gotten the reverse color scheme of Mr. Veloduffer which would have been white with red panels

[DHallerman]

In the late spring of 2001, three friends of mine from our local cycling club and a fourth woman did a self-supported little tour up in the Chester, CT area.

When Carol told me where she was going, I said something like, "Wow. You'll be right where Richard Sachs is!"

She didn't know who Richard was, never heard of him, but took in the info anyway.

Shortly after they left the Connecticut Metro-North train station to cycle some 50 miles to Chester, Annaline broke a spoke on one of her wheels. Not a fun way to start a trip.

But Carol remembered this bike builder in Chester, they went to see him, and they told me he fixed the wheel and was gracious and generous of his time.

So, cool.

Dave, who says the fourth woman he didn't know then is now his wife Cathy

[SPOKE]

I'm extremely fortunate to have a wonderful collection of
custom bikes including a very unique Sachs. It was a wonderful experience
working with Richard. Can't wait for my name to pop up in que for the
next one!
If i ever decide to race again it will be on a Sachs. The bike he built for me
just has that special "right" feel needed to get the job done.
I'm just glad that I like the feel of the bike even though I'm now just
a moderately fast old guy.
The bike disappears under me but it's such a stunning masterpiece that
everyone that sees it on my rides realizes it's incredably special.
Thanks so much Richard!!!!

[dixiesdad]

I am close to being near the top of the que for my sachs. Richard has been very patient with me. Saw my first sachs in early 1980s and was never quite the same. Perge!

[veloduffer]

My Richard Sachs regret...

June 2001, I had an appointment on a Friday with Richard, to go to Chester, to get fitted for one of his bikes.

That Tuesday, though, I got laid off from my job, since all the magazines I was editing had folded during the dot-com recession.

I just couldn't go to Chester. I just couldn't buy a custom bike without a job.

You know, I probably should have just taken my severance pay and bought the lovely thing. In fact, by the time the frame would have been ready -- about 18 months back then -- I was employed again.

But, coulda, shoulda, woulda...

Dave, who likely would have gotten the reverse color scheme of Mr. Veloduffer which would have been white with red panels


Dave, I think you could get an exception from Richard and get a place in line. Plenty of time to save! :banana:

[sevencyclist]

I got Richard Sachs road bike about 2 years ago, and it killed my bike lust. The bike just feels right.

I still remember the first time I got on the bike; my fear of "what if I don't like the bike that I waited 3 years to get" melted away with the buttery smoothness and the intuitiveness I felt on the bike. It is not about the steel, but about the design and use of the material to create that magical balance. It made me embrace the possibility that aluminum, titanium, and carbon can ride well if designed right, which is what Richard Sachs has been saying all along. I now believe it when I see people write about how Pegoretti can make their aluminum Love #3 ride so smooth and comfy. Something that I could not have fathomed from my experience with my Cannondale of 1988. I believe it now because my Richard Sachs rides very different from steel lugged Eddy Merckx Corsa, Gios Torino, Waterford SR-22, Pinarello Asolo, and TIG'd Surly that I had the chance to experience.

As for discussions here on the forum, there is less of it probably due to less variation in his interpretation of the bike. (choose road, track, or cyclocross) You get your bike the way Richard intends it to ride. None of the "I want 6.5 degrees of slope" or "how about angle of 73.25 degrees instead of 73 degrees" checking for consensus with the forum. In addition, there were many older posts with full description about Sachs, so perhaps less rehashing of the similar posts by many of the forumnites who prefer to pile on the miles.

As for the wait, rumor has it that the wait is roughly up to 7 years, and that list is closed to new comers. However, if you can find one in your size, it will have Richard's intent on how it is supposed to ride for that size of a bicycle. Give it a try if you have a chance. :beer:

[Bob Ross]

As for the wait, rumor has it that the wait is roughly up to 7 years, and that list is closed to new comers.

Just this past Sunday (1/17/10) Richard was interviewed on the Bike Talk Radio show at WIFI 1460 AM in the Philadephia area
(WWW.WIFI1460AM.COM)

During the show he said that the current wait is indeed around 7-8 years. Presumably that's for repeat clients, as indeed, per his website (http://www.richardsachs.com/rsachsfaq.html) the list is closed to newcomers.

As someone who got on the queue back when the wait was 5-6 years, I'm hoping that "7-8 years" is for new orders, and not a general delay caused by the relocation to Franklin County. But it is what it is.

And to the OP's question, I'll say this: Every ride report of a Sachs I have read was conspicuously devoid of the "vertically stiff while laterally compliant" bikespeak that seems to pervade so many bike forum discussions. Instead, they read like poetry. That's what made a Sachs so appealing to me in the first place...but I can see why that might make them less popular to read from the folks who want to know how, say, a 43mm rake affects handling, or how a wishbone seat stay flexes during out-of-the-saddle climbs yadda-yadda-yadda...

[Johny]

FWIW, I've been on the queue for 68 months and there is no hurry for me (there is a time for everything). Honestly I don't expect more than it will be a bike that ride like a bike from our good friend Richie.

John

[timto]

FWIW, I've been on the queue for 68 months and there is no hurry for me (there is a time for everything). Honestly I don't expect more than it will be a bike that ride like a bike from our good friend Richie.

John

ha ha - I've got 5 years to go!

[Pete Serotta]

John, I really appreciate you giving me your slot. :)

FWIW, I've been on the queue for 68 months and there is no hurry for me (there is a time for everything). Honestly I don't expect more than it will be a bike that ride like a bike from our good friend Richie.

John

[Pete Serotta]

Gracious and giving of his time,,,, :beer:


In the late spring of 2001, three friends of mine from our local cycling club and a fourth woman did a self-supported little tour up in the Chester, CT area.

When Carol told me where she was going, I said something like, "Wow. You'll be right where Richard Sachs is!"

She didn't know who Richard was, never heard of him, but took in the info anyway.

Shortly after they left the Connecticut Metro-North train station to cycle some 50 miles to Chester, Annaline broke a spoke on one of her wheels. Not a fun way to start a trip.

But Carol remembered this bike builder in Chester, they went to see him, and they told me he fixed the wheel and was gracious and generous of his time.

So, cool.

Dave, who says the fourth woman he didn't know then is now his wife Cathy

[Johny]

John, I really appreciate you giving me your slot. :)

You're welcome Pete. Long long ago I knew the Massachusetts era will produce the best RS bikes . :)

[dixiesdad]

I just saw a story about betty broderick who was famous for killing her husband in 1989, and is now up for parole. It turns out the prosecutor was a one Richard Sachs.....now I know how e-richie is able to attain balance in his life. Build frames, prosecute people :)

[William]

I heard a rumor "e" was switching materials.....

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/f09/b4f/f09b4fcd-5e46-4e81-be4e-1aeef3890fc4

Nothing like fur between your legs.....I mean...uh....





William :)

[pjmsj21]

So if a Sach's is relatively unobtainable, what builder out there would come closest to building a bike with similar ride qualities?

[William]

So if a Sach's is relatively unobtainable, what builder out there would come closest to building a bike with similar ride qualities?


Zanconato for one.



William

[Len J]

I Rode a Sachs in the late 80's for about 20 miles and was immediate impressed with how flawlessly the bike performed......I vowed some day to order one.

Life got in the way and it wasn't until 2004 on my 49th BDay that I placed the order as a 50th BDay present to myself. 26 or so months later, I got the call my wait was up. I decided to go the whole 9 yards and went up to connect to ride w Richard, get fitted, tour the shop and get to Know Richard. Enjoyed it immensely. A few months later, I got the e-mail that the bike was back from Joe Bell. I set up a date to drive up to pick it up.

Side story.....to give you a glimpse of Richards attention to detail, originally, I had told him I wanted a Red Regal seat on the bike. After it came back from paint, as he was building it up, he realized that he had sized the tube set assuming that I was using a seat with a smaller seat to rail difference........because of that small difference, he was worried that the aesthetics of the bike would be compromised....think about how small that difference is, but it mattered to Richard. That impressed me. (BTW, the bike did look better with a different seat).

So after 33 months of waiting I had my bike.

Since then, I've probably put about 10,000 miles on that bike. I've ridden it in heat and snow. I've ridden it in rain and sun. I've ridden it hard, and I've done social rides. I've climbed slowly and descended at speeds that someone my age should be afraid of. Through all that, the only thing I've gotten is more confident in that bike. The more I ask of it, the more it delivers. It performs flawlessly. The more I push it the less I notice it........it responds almost telepathically.......after almost 40 years of riding all kinds of bikes, it is without a doubt the best bike I've ever ridden...by a wide margin.

As someone else said...it killed my bike lust.

Len


http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=62548

[rounder]

I heard a rumor "e" was switching materials.....

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/f09/b4f/f09b4fcd-5e46-4e81-be4e-1aeef3890fc4

Nothing like fur between your legs.....I mean...uh....





William :)

That looks like a Billy Gibbons Bike (ZZ Top). Obviously it is faux fur...probably a bunch of polyesters sewn together. Underneath would be pego-ritchie tubing with carved lugs and Joe Bell paint job. It looks like a 40" seat tube with 45" top tube. The kick stand prevents those godawful scratches that come from leaning against walls and poles and stuff.

[93legendti]

So if a Sach's is relatively unobtainable, what builder out there would come closest to building a bike with similar ride qualities?
Dave Kirk
Tom Kellogg
Kelly Bedford
a used Serotta CSi (iirc, Richard Sachs noted that the CSi was the highest evolution of a steel bike)

[fiamme red]

Dave Kirk
Tom Kellogg
Kelly Bedford
a used Serotta CSi (iirc, Richard Sachs noted that the CSi was the highest evolution of a steel bike)Well, if you're including used bikes, obviously a used Sachs is the bike that comes closest in ride qualities to a new Sachs. :rolleyes:

[fiamme red]

I just saw a story about betty broderick who was famous for killing her husband in 1989, and is now up for parole. It turns out the prosecutor was a one Richard Sachs.....now I know how e-richie is able to attain balance in his life. Build frames, prosecute people :)http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/21/california.betty.broderick.parole/

"The part that nobody sees is it was already five years later on the timeline," Sachs said.

:D

[Johny]

So if a Sach's is relatively unobtainable, what builder out there would come closest to building a bike with similar ride qualities?


Dario Pegoretti.

[Jack Brunk]

A Vanilla Workshop Speedvagen. A perfect bicycle.

[Bob Ross]

I heard a rumor "e" was switching materials.....

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/f09/b4f/f09b4fcd-5e46-4e81-be4e-1aeef3890fc4


Chenille is Real

[Ray]

Well, if you're including used bikes, obviously a used Sachs is the bike that comes closest in ride qualities to a new Sachs. :rolleyes:
Except that a used Sachs wasn't designed around your particular size, weight, riding position, and likes and dislikes. To me all the talk about who builds the best custom bikes is more about who's best at looking at you on a bike, talking to you about how you like a bike to ride, and then designing and building a frame that rides exactly how you like it to ride under YOU. Richard has a reputation second to none in this regard. Tom Kellog is right with him, as are a handful of other folks. I have a couple of Spectrums and my reaction is the same as Len's is for his Sachs - bike lust DEAD. (His is waaaaaay prettier though - mine is welded ti rather than lugged steel and I just like the looks of lugged steel better so I may have a very small amount of lust left in that regard only.) Buying a used Sachs (or any other custom) requires that you get really lucky with the specifics of the fit and design and isn't much different than buying off the shelf in that regard.

There are a LOT of people who can BUILD a fine bicycle frame. There are far fewer who get the combination of bike and rider dead solid perfect. THAT, to me anyway, should be the goal of the custom bike buyer.

-Ray

[srenda]

So if a Sach's is relatively unobtainable, what builder out there would come closest to building a bike with similar ride qualities?

Sir, I beg of you, please search the archives :) I think Serotta Pete has answered this question at least 100 times in the last year.

[93legendti]

Except that a used Sachs wasn't designed around your particular size, weight, riding position, and likes and dislikes. To me all the talk about who builds the best custom bikes is more about who's best at looking at you on a bike, talking to you about how you like a bike to ride, and then designing and building a frame that rides exactly how you like it to ride under YOU. Richard has a reputation second to none in this regard. Tom Kellog is right with him, as are a handful of other folks. I have a couple of Spectrums and my reaction is the same as Len's is for his Sachs - bike lust DEAD. (His is waaaaaay prettier though - mine is welded ti rather than lugged steel and I just like the looks of lugged steel better so I may have a very small amount of lust left in that regard only.) Buying a used Sachs (or any other custom) requires that you get really lucky with the specifics of the fit and design and isn't much different than buying off the shelf in that regard.

There are a LOT of people who can BUILD a fine bicycle frame. There are far fewer who get the combination of bike and rider dead solid perfect. THAT, to me anyway, should be the goal of the custom bike buyer.

-Ray
To further the point, putting aside custom, CSi's are easy to find and reasonably priced as well. I found 3 in my size in 1 year -all were ~ $600 per frameset. Many CSi's were made in stock geometry.

You could advise someone to wait for a used Sachs to show up in their size. I've looked. I'm still looking.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Mr Sachs is one of many talented builders and the BEST marketeer and businessman of any of the modern framebuilders. His use of the internet and this forum in particular to promote his brand was masterful. atmo

indeed.

does he like nuts?

mr. squirrel

[fiamme red]

indeed.

does he like nuts?

mr. squirrelHe must like nuts, if he hangs out on Internet bicycle forums. :p

[roguedog]

Everyone.. thanks so much for the reviews and the insight. It's been great to hear why Sach's stuff is so revered and it's not just because it's now no longer available. It's actually backed by the real thing.

Ray,


THIS IS IT. That's how I feel bout what the custom experience should be. That's one of my fears of going custom. That I will have paid for essentially a stock bike. The same bike built for all a builder's customers just my size and different colors which at my size, might be a boon in itself. However, I'd love that the bike is built around the type of rider I am as well. That something a little beyond just the fitter's specs, I guess. I'm glad you guys have confirmed that this "magic" exists and that I'm not just looking for some imagined perfection that doesn't exist or can't exist.

The list of folks that fit this list that have been mentioned by folks are:

kirk
kellog
zanc
strong
vanilla
bedford
goodrich

I was gathering it for myself but thought I'd post the list.

Wow.. this has been a great thread and really educational. Hmm.. not enough bike porn though.. except for the llama bike???



Except that a used Sachs wasn't designed around your particular size, weight, riding position, and likes and dislikes. To me all the talk about who builds the best custom bikes is more about who's best at looking at you on a bike, talking to you about how you like a bike to ride, and then designing and building a frame that rides exactly how you like it to ride under YOU. Richard has a reputation second to none in this regard. Tom Kellog is right with him, as are a handful of other folks. I have a couple of Spectrums and my reaction is the same as Len's is for his Sachs - bike lust DEAD. (His is waaaaaay prettier though - mine is welded ti rather than lugged steel and I just like the looks of lugged steel better so I may have a very small amount of lust left in that regard only.) Buying a used Sachs (or any other custom) requires that you get really lucky with the specifics of the fit and design and isn't much different than buying off the shelf in that regard.

There are a LOT of people who can BUILD a fine bicycle frame. There are far fewer who get the combination of bike and rider dead solid perfect. THAT, to me anyway, should be the goal of the custom bike buyer.

-Ray

[Ray]

The list of folks that fit this list that have been mentioned by folks are:

kirk
kellog
zanc
strong
vanilla
bedford
goodrich


I'd add Hampsten. Steve's a great guy and, like with Richard and Tom K, the reviews of their bikes that I've seen have been glowing, bordering on poetry. He seems to be another guy who just "gets" it. And, depending on what you're looking for, I wouldn't rule out Grant Peterson at Rivendell. He has very strong and specific opinions about some fundamental design features and how a bike should ride, so if they don't match with yours, steer clear. But if they do, he can design you a fantastic riding custom.

My custom experience, as noted, is just with Spectrum, and it so thoroughly exceeded my expectations I was really shocked that the seeming lack of tradeoffs and compromises was even possible.

-Ray

[fiamme red]

Everyone.. thanks so much for the reviews and the insight. It's been great to hear why Sach's stuff is so revered and it's not just because it's now no longer available. It's actually backed by the real thing.

Ray,


THIS IS IT. That's how I feel bout what the custom experience should be. That's one of my fears of going custom. That I will have paid for essentially a stock bike. The same bike built for all a builder's customers just my size and different colors which at my size, might be a boon in itself. However, I'd love that the bike is built around the type of rider I am as well. That something a little beyond just the fitter's specs, I guess. I'm glad you guys have confirmed that this "magic" exists and that I'm not just looking for some imagined perfection that doesn't exist or can't exist.

The list of folks that fit this list that have been mentioned by folks are:

kirk
kellog
zanc
strong
vanilla
bedford
goodrich

I was gathering it for myself but thought I'd post the list.

Wow.. this has been a great thread and really educational. Hmm.. not enough bike porn though.. except for the llama bike???There's a company called Serotta, based in upstate NY, I think. I've heard that they can make a nice custom frame. No wait list, so you can have your bike ready to ride a few weeks after you order it.

:banana:

[soulspinner]

There's a company called Serotta, based in upstate NY, I think. I've heard that they can make a nice custom frame. No wait list, so you can have your bike ready to ride a few weeks after you order it.

:banana:

+1-Spring is closin in.... :beer:

[victoryfactory]

There's a company called Serotta, based in upstate NY, I think. I've heard that they can make a nice custom frame. No wait list, so you can have your bike ready to ride a few weeks after you order it.



Unless you're a "lugite", then you can wait 3-5 years.

VF

[veloduffer]

A few others to consider:

JP (Peter) Wiegle - Sach's partner at Witcomb USA and former neighbor (Rich moved this year) in East Haddam CT.

Peter Mooney in MA
Richard Moon
Columbine (like jeweled art)
Bilenky (Philly)
Della Santa
Brian Baylis

I would recommend finding someone "local" where you can visit the builder to discuss what you want and show him your current bike.

I did that with Richard and explained what I wanted in terms of handling and ride, given my riding style. It's a great experience and well worth it.

Everyone.. thanks so much for the reviews and the insight. It's been great to hear why Sach's stuff is so revered and it's not just because it's now no longer available. It's actually backed by the real thing.

Ray,


THIS IS IT. That's how I feel bout what the custom experience should be. That's one of my fears of going custom. That I will have paid for essentially a stock bike. The same bike built for all a builder's customers just my size and different colors which at my size, might be a boon in itself. However, I'd love that the bike is built around the type of rider I am as well. That something a little beyond just the fitter's specs, I guess. I'm glad you guys have confirmed that this "magic" exists and that I'm not just looking for some imagined perfection that doesn't exist or can't exist.

The list of folks that fit this list that have been mentioned by folks are:

kirk
kellog
zanc
strong
vanilla
bedford
goodrich

I was gathering it for myself but thought I'd post the list.

Wow.. this has been a great thread and really educational. Hmm.. not enough bike porn though.. except for the llama bike???