ottrott and legend

[Climb01742]

does anyone out there own both an ottrott and a legend? given the recent threads appreciating (or not) carbon, i'd be curious how the ride of an ottrott differs from and/or is similar to a legend. putting aside price, would there be a compelling reason or characteristic for buying one over the other? my intent isn't to start a fracas. i'm just curious.

[Jay Torborg]

I own a Concours and an Ottrott ST. I couldn't tell much difference in the ride between the Concours and the Legend, although I understand that lighter riders might be able to feel a larger difference. Both frames are exactly the same geometry but there are a few differences in setup. I'm using an F2 fork on the Ottrott and an O2 fork on the Concours. I'm also using different wheels - Topolinos on the Concours and Eurus on the Ottrott.

The Concours feels a little zippier (although this could be the wheels), but the Ottrott is much smoother riding. My rear feels about the same on the Concours after 50 miles as it does on the Ottrott after 100. The Ottrott seems to stick to the road a bit better on fast descents, particularly around bumpy corners, but this difference is not that significant. The Concours seems to climb a bit better. I don't know if it's really any faster, but it feels like I'm moving up the hill a bit quicker. This could be because the Concours is a bit lighter, but I think the rear end is a bit stiffer as well.

All in all, I far prefer the Ottrott on long rides because of the comfort factor. On shorter rides, it's a wash.

- Jay

[EdK]

I have an Ottrott St and a standard Legend Ti. I echo Jay's comments. If I am going to be on the bike longer than 3-4 hours I always pick the Ottrott. The ride is perfect. Siff where it should be and very smooth. The Legend Ti is great as well. It is the best Ti bike I have ever ridden and I have owned a bunch (Ultimate, Ghisallo, Merlin LW) You can't go wrong with either but I will always own an Ottrott.

[jeffg]

Climb --

I do not own both, but I have ridden both and I am surprised that people feel (1) the Legend climbs better and (2) the Ottrott is smoother. This may be due to the ST rear on the Ottrotts in question, I don't know. My experience was that the Legend had more vertical give up front (not a bad thing per se) and felt less direct (but more springy). The Ottrott was by no means harsh, and it did have that slightly muted feel going over bumps, but I found it no more comfy than my Legend (and I have ridden the Legend over 16 hours in a day multiple times on it and find it wonderfully comfortable).

I would pick the Ottrott for out of saddle climbing and perhaps sprinting, but nothing else.


best,

Jeff

[SPOKE]

in the collection i have a stock geometry legend, an Ottrott (first generation), and Ottrott ST (built with the new 04' tubing). IMO the legend has few if any equals in the all Ti class. it's performance/feel is as good as it gets when compared to other all Ti offerings. if i had ordered it custom it might be just a little better/different. now comparing the standard legend to the custom Ottrott makes for a red apple & green apple comparison. i asked the folks to build me a rocket when specing out the Ottrott. what i got is a frame built with the firm flex tube set and oversize single bend chain stays. when sprinting or climbing (standing) the front end of the ottrott doesn't twist nearly as much as the legend. the bike holds a very tight line on fast twisty decents better (15-20%) than my legend. the rear end of the bike is a little more harsh but only by about 8-10% as measured by my Butt-o-meter. now the ottrott st is everything the first ottrott is but less harsh in the rear end even though it's built with the new OS "S-bend" chain stays. it actually feels a lot like the legend in verticle comlpiance but doesn't twist or move around side-to-side as much. it's another rocket that feels about 15-20% more lively than my first Ottrott but doesn't feel like i'm wasting any power at all. feels more like the bike returns some of it. it is really a great combination of qualities. now here's the catch: if you can verbally describe the qualities you want i'm certain the folks at Serotta can build the bike to match. also remember that an all Ti bike will always feel different than the exact same geometry Ti-carbon bike. you just can't get around that fact. now justifying the price of these bikes something only you can decide. it may help to keep this in mind: bikes of this this level are rarely if ever something we need.......we buy them because we want to and because we can afford too.

[Climb01742]

spoke, thanks for a very informative reply. your experience seems to confirm some of my thoughts. carbon and ti simply ride and react differently. so its possible to build an ottrott to do/ride one way, and build a legend (or concours, if i'm only slightly less insane) to ride another. this spring we'll be rebuilding my ottrott to address certain things. would be interesting (and partially insane) to also build a legend to do something slightly different. i've already test-ridden some other ti frames, and while they were quite nice, i'm drawn back to serottas for two reasons. i know i have my serotta fit dialed in perfectly. and if i was gonna pay anyone to build me a ti frame, paying ben might be a way of saying thanks for building us this sandbox to play in. just have to see whether the meds kick-in before my frame insanity goes any further. :banana:

[SPOKE]

absolutely! with 4 different stiffness tubes (carbon) available for the main triangle, 2 different carbon seat stay options and 3 chain stay options i think you can get extremely close to just about any ride quality/characterstics. the key is being able to accurately describe what you want to your fit tech. talking to Kelly Bedford at serotta would be a good move too.

[Jay Torborg]

Climb -

I'm curious as to why you are rebuilding your Ottrott? What's involved in rebuilding? Are you changing geometry, or just tube types?

Thanks,
Jay

[Climb01742]

jay, when you build a custom, there's always this leap of faith. you describe the feel you want, then hope you've described it well enough, and that it gets translated into the tubes. my ottrott's ride just didn't turn out the way i'd hoped. ben and kelly have awesome about it. we've had quite a few discussions over the months. as you can understand, if ben is gonna build a new one for me, he wants to get it right. versions of ottrotts aren't an inexpensive proposition. we're nearing a consensus. as i said, i can't say enough about how great ben has been about this. he really cares.

[Kevin]

climb,

You are not the only one. My first Ottrott was all wrong. I rode it for about three days before I returned it and said try again. I think the old frame is still hanging in my LBS. For me it was a fit issue, not a ride issue. The STA was just wrong, and my glass knees let me know very quickly. The frame was replaced free of charge. I suspect my LBS picked up most of the tab, but I am sure that Serotta kicked in a little.

If anybody is looking for a 59 Ottrott ST, my old frame is probably still available. You should contact chris@krebcycle.com

Kevin

[dnovo]

SPOKE spoke the truth on both framesets. I have an Ottrott ST and a Legend Ti, both with the F2 fork but built to be completely different rides.

I was not that impressed with the first generation Ottrott I rode at my LBS, but love my ST with traditional geometry and built as a 'normal' road ride. Built with the tubeset and basically level TT for longer rides. Kelly then built my extreme compact Legend Ti to be a stiff sprinter. Very sloping TT, 40cm ST, oversized and stiff tubeset and the ti rear stays, not ST. Again, got exactly what I asked for, the stiffest ti ride I ever experienced, but with that nice touch of ti flex over potholes and ripples in corners. Stiff where and when I want it, out of the saddle and dropping down a bunch of gears and honking.

Two different but outstanding bikes. Figure out what you want and have your shop discuss it with Kelly. Dave N.