New Rivendell/Soma lugged road frame

[fiamme red]

http://somafab.blogspot.com/2010/01/rivendell-collaborates-with-soma-on.html

http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/amos/70-999

Other Riv news:

http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/181

We're losing our all-Japanese built frames - the Quickbeam, Atlantis, A. Homer Hilsen, Glorius and Wilbury --- and have already lost some others. They cost too much because the U.S. dollar is too weak and the Yen is too strong...

Early this summer (late May, maybe June) we'll introduce a new bike, the Hunqapillear, pronounced "Hunkapillar." It's sort of between an Atlantis and Bombadil; a toury traily du-it-all kind of frame in four sizes: 48 54 58 62, all with the "expanded, not compact" sizing like the Sam and Bomadil...

And the Quickbeam is gone and will be replaced with the SimpleOne. Same geometry, basically same frame and lugs and crown and bb and dropouts and everything, but made in Taiwan, so it costs less...

Tires, in the bicycle world at large and even here at Rivendell, are out of control and so we're cutting back. The 27mm Ruffy-Tuffy/Roll-y Pol-y tire mold is wearing out and we may see the last of those tires this year...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4031/4260717246_9b63741006_o.jpg

[Acotts]

I think that is a great fit. Good for both of them.

[spacemen3]

Very cool. :cool:

[eddief]

the joinery of seatstays to seat tube. this is supposedly not the final version and i hope they spruce that a bit. maybe a simple mitre.

[dekindy]

Oops, wrong brand.

[gdw]

Taiwanese produced Kool-Aid instead of Japanese this year. :banana:

[thwart]

Another image.

I like it. Two of my favorite bike companies...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4251591019_8c6a13ce37.jpg

[rnhood]

the joinery of seatstays to seat tube. this is supposedly not the final version and i hope they spruce that a bit. maybe a simple mitre.

Agree, scallop those seat stay ends and this frame would be top shelf in every respect. Excellent looking frame.

[SamIAm]

Agree, scallop those seat stay ends and this frame would be top shelf in every respect. Excellent looking frame.

Agreed and the best part is you don't have to suffer from the Rivendell naming convention to get one.

[that guy]

I realize the details are a bit different, but seems kind of redundant in the Soma lineup with the Smoothie ES and Speedster/Stanyan already available, at half the price.....

[eddief]

http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/amos/70-999

[gdw]

"I realize the details are a bit different, but seems kind of redundant in the Soma lineup with the Smoothie ES and Speedster/Stanyan already available, at half the price....."

But Grant Petersen didn't design the lugs on the Stanyon.... and it doesn't have the ever popular Rivendell sloping top tube and threaded one inch fork. Plus it takes those big honking 38mm wide tires that every lbs carries. Those features alone justify the price difference. ;)

[pjmsj21]

Well I think for my money Gunnar (Waterford's of the shelf brand) is hard to beat if you are looking for a moderately priced steel frame. No you dont have the lugs of the Soma/Rivendell, as a Gunnar is TIG welded. But you have a host of options, colors and models with Gunnar. The Soma/Rivendell bike comes in some pretty limited sizing as well, while Gunnar offers extensive sizing and they have even lowered the price of their made to measure option to $1150, not including fork. Not bad for a custom, made in the US high quality steel frame with short turn around time.

[93legendti]

"The actual geometry........well, I don't have time to put it up, and I'm not super-inclined to, anyway. There's nothing magic or dumb about it. It reflects all of my 'pinions about frame design, with no cave-ins to anybody, and it designed just the way I'd've done it for us..."

[eddief]

OMFG this is not going to be available for a year...if ever. bet the viral marketing will make it sell a bit. or have us all so tired of the harping forum discussions we will want never to hear of it again.

[Bob Ross]

Pretty color.

[John M]

Well I think for my money Gunnar (Waterford's of the shelf brand) is hard to beat if you are looking for a moderately priced steel frame. No you dont have the lugs of the Soma/Rivendell, as a Gunnar is TIG welded. But you have a host of options, colors and models with Gunnar. The Soma/Rivendell bike comes in some pretty limited sizing as well, while Gunnar offers extensive sizing and they have even lowered the price of their made to measure option to $1150, not including fork. Not bad for a custom, made in the US high quality steel frame with short turn around time.

+1. $900 seems to be a lot to pay for a Maxway frame, since the typical lugged Soma frameset is around $550-600.

[djg]

"The actual geometry........well, I don't have time to put it up, and I'm not super-inclined to, anyway. There's nothing magic or dumb about it. It reflects all of my 'pinions about frame design, with no cave-ins to anybody, and it designed just the way I'd've done it for us..."

Plus, it comes in four whole sizes -- yep, count 'em 4 -- which suggest that maybe his "'pinions" about frame design don't need to fret over pesky little differences in the sizes of the people who ride the darn bikes.

[BCS]

Has GP officially jumped the shark?

[fiamme red]

Rivendell is taking orders for the Soma frames now. They have a few sizes in stock, 54cm, 59cm, and 63cm. The latter two sizes have a double top tube.

http://www.rivbike.com/products/show/amos-frameset/70-999

[eddief]

be nice if Riv/GP would post the geometry specs. did i miss em or is he being his usual mysterious on purpose?

[christian]

I'm sure the geometry is close to all his other bikes - in a 59cm, I'm sure it's 58cm top tube, 72d STA, 44.5cm chainstays, 8cm drop, etc.

I could fit a 59, but what's with the double top tubes. I'd never get that on a road bike.

[fiamme red]

I could fit a 59, but what's with the double top tubes. I'd never get that on a road bike.I think it's for the sake of being different and standing out from the crowd, not for any practical purpose.

[sc53]

Has GP officially jumped the shark?
That happened with the first double top tube bike--"Hunquapillar?" or "Bombadil?"

[Ahneida Ride]

They cost too much because the U.S. dollar is too weak and the Yen is too strong...

The Private Central Bank irredeemable note. :crap:

[bfd]

I think it's for the sake of being different and standing out from the crowd, not for any practical purpose.

Bingo! For super large size frames like 63cm or longer, I can see the benefit of a double top tube. But, specing it on a 59cm or on a couple of his other frames, 56cm is crazy. I mean really, do you really need all the support/bracing in anything under say 62-63cm?

What about planing? Doesn't Jan H, *the authority on planing,* argue for a "flexier" frame?

Don't get me wrong, I like many of Grant's ideas like higher and wider handlebars, wool clothing, etc. But, he's always looking for that next thing to "push the envelope," like 650b wheels, centerpull brakes and now double toptubes. Some of them seem to work for specific audience like 650b - great for smaller riders and making an "old racing-style" bike more useful. But double tt, espeically on a small frame like a 56cm?! Come on!

I also don't like his constant carbon bashing. It has gotten to the point where I'm no longer interested in being a member or read his Reader.
Too bad, it use to be one of the best publications out there. Good Luck!

[GRAVELBIKE]

If this is a road bike, and not a "country" or "adventure" bike, why is the extra rigidity of the second top tube even needed? Assuming that it has classic tube diameters, wouldn't it be less costly to just go with slightly oversized tubing?

[Waldo]

Too bad about the top tubes. Seems like San Marcos would be an affordable alternative to Roadeo, but aesthetically, for me, the second tube is a deal killer.

[John M]

I am still curious as to what this offers over other Soma's own lugged frame, the Stanyan, which retails for $200 less.

[eddief]

the San Marcos would offer sloping top tube, taller headtube, threaded fork, more relaxed geo.

I am still curious as to what this offers over other Soma's own lugged frame, the Stanyan, which retails for $200 less.

[michael white]

Notice how the Rivendell photos avoid showing the seat cluster. I try not to be too fussy about minor things, but I agree that there's something about that one that I just can't warm to . . .

[eddief]

that was my only critique of ride or aesthetics when I rode the prototype at HG a while back. I think the photos are still the prototype so just maybe the tube transitions got tuned for production.


Notice how the Rivendell photos avoid showing the seat cluster. I try not to be too fussy about minor things, but I agree that there's something about that one that I just can't warm to . . .

[mister]

its pretty obvious GP's ideas are for very versatile bikes.
http://pushingthepedals.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/another-shot-at-mt-diablo-india-progress/


this bike could be a nice all around-er type bike.

[fiamme red]

its pretty obvious GP's ideas are for very versatile bikes.
http://pushingthepedals.wordpress.com/2011/06/02/another-shot-at-mt-diablo-india-progress/


this bike could be a nice all around-er type bike.But the Soma isn't a bike that rides well with heavy loads, according to Grant.

"Despite the rack mounts on the seat stays, it isn't a touring bike. The tubing is too light for that. The rack mounts are for a rack, yes, but it's still not a bike for loaded touring, so keep the load light. It's a sprite-of-a-bike, for largely unloaded and lightly loaded road riding. Saddlebags, handlebar bags, both, easy."

[mister]

But the Soma isn't a bike that rides well with heavy loads, according to Grant.

"Despite the rack mounts on the seat stays, it isn't a touring bike. The tubing is too light for that. The rack mounts are for a rack, yes, but it's still not a bike for loaded touring, so keep the load light. It's a sprite-of-a-bike, for largely unloaded and lightly loaded road riding. Saddlebags, handlebar bags, both, easy."

right. doesn't mean it's not versatile though.
wouldn't want to ride across the country on it.
an overnight bike camping trip would probably be fine, as would commuting with a pannier or saddlebag.
riding on some light trails too given it is built to take a 38mm tire or 33mm tire with fenders would probably work well too.

that's why i said the soma would make a nice all around-er type bike...which is something all your dedicated road bikes wouldn't do.

also, outfitted with the right wheels/tires/components i imagine this thing would make an ok road bike too though...you know, a club rides type bike.

[fourflys]

so I really like most Rivendell's and this one is no exception... however, I gotta wonder after test riding the new Salsa Casseroll the other week what idoes the Riv have that justifies the $1500-$2000 prive jump? for $3k, I'm sure you get better components so let's just look at frame/fork package... the Salsa is around $550 and comes with a painted to match front rack... both are made in Taiwain it looks like and the Salsa ride great as far as fit/comfort...

again, I like Rivs and have owned them in the past, but I just can't justify the upcharge for the Riv name on this one...

YMMV...

[palincss]

so I really like most Rivendell's and this one is no exception... however, I gotta wonder after test riding the new Salsa Casseroll the other week what idoes the Riv have that justifies the $1500-$2000 prive jump? for $3k, I'm sure you get better components so let's just look at frame/fork package... the Salsa is around $550 and comes with a painted to match front rack... both are made in Taiwain it looks like and the Salsa ride great as far as fit/comfort...

again, I like Rivs and have owned them in the past, but I just can't justify the upcharge for the Riv name on this one...

YMMV...

I don't understand. The SOMA under discussion is $900. By my math, that's $350 more than the Salsa, not $2000 more. Have I missed something, or are you comparing the Salsa with some other Rivendell model?

[fourflys]

I don't understand. The SOMA under discussion is $900. By my math, that's $350 more than the Salsa, not $2000 more. Have I missed something, or are you comparing the Salsa with some other Rivendell model?


on the Riv site, a SOMA complete will be $2500 to $3000... the Salsa is $1200... as I said, I'm sure the SOMA Riv will have better components so that is why I said the better comparo is the framesets... I still feel the Salsa is a better value (1/3 cheaper) as you also get a painted to match front rack... but everyone will have a different opinion and that's cool...

[palincss]

on the Riv site, a SOMA complete will be $2500 to $3000... the Salsa is $1200... as I said, I'm sure the SOMA Riv will have better components so that is why I said the better comparo is the framesets...


When you buy components retail you get screwed royally compared with the prices manufacturers pay. That Salsa sounds price competitive with the built-up Surly LHTs, and there you're getting one amazing screaming deal on the components. You couldn't buy those very same components retail for what the complete bike costs.

On the other hand, you do get to choose your components, and that's definitely worth something.

[RFC]

I didn't know there are bike making elves n Taiwan.

[Frankwurst]

But, he's always looking for that next thing to "push the envelope," like 650b wheels, centerpull brakes and now double toptubes. Some of them seem to work for specific audience like 650b - great for smaller riders and making an "old racing-style" bike more useful.

I think the audience for 650b is much larger than you realize and not in the least for the reasons you state. And what's wrong or different about centerpull brakes? They were probably being used before you were born and are still very functional and a good brake to boot. I do agree the 2TT thing is a bit much and that I don't get. :beer:

[fourflys]

When you buy components retail you get screwed royally compared with the prices manufacturers pay. That Salsa sounds price competitive with the built-up Surly LHTs, and there you're getting one amazing screaming deal on the components. You couldn't buy those very same components retail for what the complete bike costs.

On the other hand, you do get to choose your components, and that's definitely worth something.


again, that's why I said the frameset comparo is better...

[bfd]

Frank wrote:

<I think the audience for 650b is much larger than you realize and not in the least for the reasons you state.>

You're right, I forgot about the "27.5" mtb movement. 584mm is another option that for some is a good thing.

< And what's wrong or different about centerpull brakes? They were probably being used before you were born and are still very functional and a good brake to boot.>

Haha, I'm probably way older than you! Yes, I do remember cp brakes and I have to tell you, those memories are not good.

< I do agree the 2TT thing is a bit much and that I don't get.>

Now, we have something in common.

Good luck! :crap: :beer: :butt:

[GRAVELBIKE]

If Riv/Grant/SOMA is really trying to capture the person who is disenchanted with their current "charity-ride" mount, it's going to be a tough sell, IMO. The double top tubes are the obvious hurdle, but getting folks to warm up to another wheel/tire size could be even harder.

[Fixed]

it is what it is ... a grand frame
cheers

[sancruz]

Has anyone built one of these up yet? Curious to hear a review