power meters selection pros/cons

[tsutaoka]

my coach wants me to train with a power meter, so i'm evaluating options. my set-up includes a dura ace 7900 drive train, edge wheels, and dura ace pedals. all components that i really like...and therefore changing one for a power meter is a tough choice. i also have an ant+ head unit in the garmin 705.

what are the pros/cons of the following options:
a) metrigear vector (pedal based - expected to market sometime in 2010)
b) powertap (rear hub based)
c) srm dura ace 7900 compatible standard crank (crank based - note i have a compact and would see a standard as a positive)

my analysis attributes include:
a) Price
b) Performance
c) Maintenance/Issues
d) Other

any input is appreciated. thanks in advance.

[djg]

my coach wants me to train with a power meter, so i'm evaluating options. my set-up includes a dura ace 7900 drive train, edge wheels, and dura ace pedals. all components that i really like...and therefore changing one for a power meter is a tough choice. i also have an ant+ head unit in the garmin 705.

what are the pros/cons of the following options:
a) metrigear vector (pedal based - expected to market sometime in 2010)
b) powertap (rear hub based)
c) srm dura ace 7900 compatible standard crank (crank based - note i have a compact and would see a standard as a positive)

my analysis attributes include:
a) Price
b) Performance
c) Maintenance/Issues
d) Other

any input is appreciated. thanks in advance.

I guess I'd be hesitant to beta test a completely new product. SRM and powertap both make good products. SRM will cost quite a bit more than most powertap models, but provide the option of switching wheels. Same for quark. Powertap will provide the option of switching bikes. Performance on all of these is supposed to be very good, and pretty close under most conditions. Not everybody loves the powertap display, but there's the option of switching to or substituting a garmin (still less expensive than an SRM; and you've already got the 705, so there you go).

I mean, really, if price is a serious object, I'd take a long hard look at one of the deals on the old wired powertap models (competitive cyclist sells a package with a rear wheel, head unit, everything ready to roll, for about 650 bucks) -- you could ride it for a year, see what it does for your training, and trade up if you really want, or not.

[tsutaoka]

djg,

thanks for the note.

price is not the main factor. performance, maintence/issues outweigh price and weight. i'm pretty committed to power and will jump two feet in instead of an interium solution approach.

i hear what your saying about being a beta tester for new products...that's one vote against metrigear.

[ThasFACE]

I have punished a wireless DA SRM in all conditions for the last two seasons and it has been awesome. It's the spendy option, but it won't let you down and there shouldn't be any maintenance to deal with (other than the annual trip back to srm for battery/calibration). Resale (if that matters) is also pretty decent.

The CinQo seems to be a solid option too and I haven't heard anything but good stuff about it, but I have no personal experience. Only issue I can see with the cinqo is that the product is relatively new so there's no multi-year reliability data of the production models.

Regarding powertap, I started out my power-training adventures on one and liked it well enough, but I didn't like being tied down to one set of wheels for all the times when I wanted power data (read: learned my lesson about carbon rims in rainy/icy race conditions).

Accuracy and consistency of all three seems to be very good... so much so that I wouldn't really choose one over the other because of it.

All that said, if money is an issue the I'd say go powertap, otherwise I'm still convinced that SRM is the best.

[jbrainin]

All that said, if money is an issue the I'd say go powertap, otherwise I'm still convinced that SRM is the best.

value = PowerTap
bulletproof = SRM
(Quark seems good but uses mostly "obscure" cranks at this time.)

FWIW, I'm using PowerTap at the moment but will switch to Vector when it is released as I'm a very longtime Speedplay user. Until there's a SRM UltraTorque Campy crank, I just can't go the SRM route.

[tsutaoka]

thanks guys for the opinions. right now, it seems srm sounds like a good option. please keep the discussions going.

[TBDSeattle]

I've been thinking about buying a Garmin 705/ PowerTap 2.4+ wireless combo, so I'll be interested to hear about your eventual choice and experience.

My other option would be getting a used or online/cheap wired option. I don't like the resale on getting a wired version, and I feel that it will only get worse.

I am more financially constrained than many on this forum, so price is a real factor.

Do let us hear what you decide.

Best- Tyler

[r_mutt]

i don't like being held hostage to using one wheelset- and that's kind of what the powertap does- unless you buy another set- or 2. don't hold your breath for the metrigear. it might take longer than they think to bring it to the market. the SRM is nice, but very expensive and sending the unit back to germany to change the batteries reminds me of the jag e-type manual instructions for changing a clutch: step one - remove engine!

winner here: Quarq. the one problem with Quarq is the crank choice. you are limited here, but there are a few good choices: the cannondale hollowgram, the rotor crank, and the SRAM S900 are all good choices. the bonus being that you can use dura ace rings with all of these.

[tsutaoka]

what i hear

1) srm = bullet proof
pluses
* proven consistent performance
* maintenace free
* doesn't limit wheel or pedal choices (big plus in my ranking)
* good choice of crank options (including 165mm dura ace)

minuses
* expensive
* + ~150gms weight on crank
* serviced in germany

2) powertap = value
pluses
* proven performance
* maintenace free
* US customer service
* cheaper than srm

minuses
* + ~200gms weight
* limits wheel swaps

3) metrigear
pluses
* +~50gms weight on pedals
* promises to be lower cost

minuses
* entering beta...too many production unknowns
* small company

tough decision still...but i think srm leads by a little bit.

please keep the discussions going. thanks again

[djg]

djg,

thanks for the note.

price is not the main factor. performance, maintence/issues outweigh price and weight. i'm pretty committed to power and will jump two feet in instead of an interium solution approach.

i hear what your saying about being a beta tester for new products...that's one vote against metrigear.

To add to that, my experience with the powertap is that it works great out of the box and is entirely dependable -- as for maintenance, it may need recalibration at some point, but that's not the sort of maintenance you have to do mid-season or every few weeks or anything. Still, that will come up eventually. I guess I might focus on the switching wheels versus switching bikes issue -- lots of folks train on more than one bike (maybe two road bikes; maybe road, tt, and cross, whatever) and appreciate being able to swap one PT back and forth just by swapping the rear wheel and popping the head unit onto a spare mount; others train and race on one bike and really want power readings not just for training but for training and racing, and really want to swap wheels and keep the same power metering device from one situation to the other.

[dekindy]

How about an IBike?
http://www.ibikesports.com/

I have not read it but they are referencing a VeloNews 02/2010 article that compares it's accuracy to other power measuring devices.

[Climb01742]

if you will ride/train on one bike, SRM is a great option. but i found the SRM/computer interface for downloading files to be clunky. the powertap interface is much cleaner/easier, for me anyway.

would you rather be able to switch bikes or wheels? and how much does an easier/harder data downloading interface matter to you?

[Ti Designs]

Another option to think about: I find that far too many people training on power dwell far too much on the numbers. It's hard to train intelegently without data, but changing conditions (your body from one day to the next for one) color the output. I'm finding that testing with power gets me good data without putting lots of electronics on the bike - using the computrainer for example allows me to control everything in testing. The spin scan also allows me to see how the power is produced, not just that it's being produced. This is probably only a good option for riders who live in areas where the indoor trainer is a fact of life...

[Auk]

SRM cranks and the control unit are both servicable in the US.

They are, indeed, bulletproof in every manner of the word. May of last year a group of us ended up having to ride through standing water that came above the bb of the bike, and was so for 1/4 of a mile. Hike a bike was an option, but one that didn't get used. I though sure the cranks would be toast and need to be sent back in to have a refurb. Instead, I never lost signal for the remaining 20 miles back and it has worked everyday since that time.

BTW, the battary in the crank is easily servicable on a diy basis. Remove rings, lift up the white backcover on crank, unsolder the LIthium battery(s) and resolder the new one in. Batteries are $21 each (some units use two).

If you have more than one set of wheels you want to use, the SRM is the way to go. If your a wheel whore like me, you are reminded of this everytime you look at your wheel rack. :)

Also, switching to another bike is a 5 minute swap. If you have the harness already on the other bike or bikes, simply remove the cranks and reinstall. I've timed it, and it's a 3-4 minute job.

[Auk]

if you will ride/train on one bike, SRM is a great option. but i found the SRM/computer interface for downloading files to be clunky. the powertap interface is much cleaner/easier, for me anyway.

would you rather be able to switch bikes or wheels? and how much does an easier/harder data downloading interface matter to you?

Buy and install the Trainingpeaks software WKO+. Much better than the software that comes with the SRM unit.

[nm87710]

....

[tsutaoka]

great feedback.

i'm a one bike many wheels type, so i still see a trend supporting srm.

i also see Trainingpeaks software WKO+ in the mix.

what are experiences with a wireless srm + garmin 705 headunit + trainingpeaks?

[ThasFACE]

A used(no moving parts so they don't wear out) SRM is half the cost of a new wireless version and provides more reliable data(wireless units w/ PC VI have had issues dropping data).
I only ever used the garmin 705 with my srm and, aside from some software glitches on garmin's side, data loss wasn't a problem. I did hear that the pc vi ran into some issues, though.

SRM should be releasing the pcvii this year and there is also the garmin 500, so there are a number of head unit options available now/soon.

[jbrainin]

I've been thinking about buying a Garmin 705/ PowerTap 2.4+ wireless combo, so I'll be interested to hear about your eventual choice and experience.
Best- Tyler

That's the combo I'm currently using and it has worked well for me. I got David at Nimble to build me a wheel with his Spider v.3 rim and he did it at a great price.

[djg21]

I guess I'd be hesitant to beta test a completely new product. SRM and powertap both make good products. SRM will cost quite a bit more than most powertap models, but provide the option of switching wheels. Same for quark. Powertap will provide the option of switching bikes. Performance on all of these is supposed to be very good, and pretty close under most conditions. Not everybody loves the powertap display, but there's the option of switching to or substituting a garmin (still less expensive than an SRM; and you've already got the 705, so there you go).

I mean, really, if price is a serious object, I'd take a long hard look at one of the deals on the old wired powertap models (competitive cyclist sells a package with a rear wheel, head unit, everything ready to roll, for about 650 bucks) -- you could ride it for a year, see what it does for your training, and trade up if you really want, or not.

I have a Powertap now (actually one SL Ant+ meter w/ a Garmin 705 and an old PT Pro on my trainer). I'm really looking forward to seeing how the Metrigear meter works out, as I'm a Speedplay fan already, and would love the option of using multiple wheels (and/or bikes) with a single power meter at a relatively low price. SRM was too expensive for me.

If you need a power meter now, you are somewhat limited. If you wait until after the Metrigear becomes available, the prices for all meters probably will drop, and my guess is that there will be a flood of Powertaps to be had on Ebay! It will be interesting to see the innovations over the next few years given the increased competition in this market!

TrainingPeaks is very nice software. I just upgrade to Version 3, and it provides more information than I could ever hope to make use of.

[nm87710]

it provides more information than I could ever hope to make use of.

Lot's of data. Very little actionable information.

[R3KC]

Whatever powermeter you buy invest in Training Peaks WKO+software and the book Training and Racing with a powermeter.

Those two items cost a nominal amount and make sense of it all.

[GONE4ARIDE]

I've been a Powertap 2.4 wireless user for the past 4 years. The unit has been extremely reliable for me ever since an initial data drop issue which Saris promptly fixed. While I have been happy with my PTand Saris, I have also become increasingly disenchanted with being forced to use one rear wheel. I race a lot (road and cross) and hate having to make the choice every weekend between using my training wheel if I want to capture power data, or using my bling race wheels but miss out on capturing valuable power data.

I've made the decision to make the change to a crank-based system this season. However, I need to equip my road bike as well as my TT bike and given that I use different crank lengths on each bike, changing one powermeter equipped crankset back and forth between the bikes is not an option. While SRM is the gold standard, you pay a premium for the product if purchased new. I am going to give the Quarq Cinqo powermeter a try. I can purchase (2) new Quarq Cinqos for not much more than one new SRM wireless unit.

The Quarq uses the same technology as the SRM and has proven to be a very reliable unit backed up by a company which apparently provides excellent customer service. In my opinion Quarq is going to gain a lot of momentum this year as more ANT+ compatible head unit options have become available (Specialized, Garmin Edge 500, Powertap Joule) to pair with it and because of the expanded crank offerings.

It's true that Quarq doesn't presently offer their powermeter for Campy or Shimano cranks, but their offering has recently been expanded to include a SRAM Red based crank (S975), as well Specialized, Lightening, FSA, Cannondale Si Hollogram and Rotor cranks. I'll be going the SRAM route and using either the Garmin Edge 500 or Powertap Joule head unit.

As far as training analysis software goes, there's no question; make the investment in Traingpeaks WKO+ from the get go.

[djg21]

I use different crank lengths on each bike, changing one powermeter equipped crankset back and forth between the bikes is not an option.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I assume that when you say that you can purchase two new Quarq Cinqos for not much more than one new SRM wireless unit, you actually are intending to purchase two power meters? The Quarg obviously is not one that can be moved from bike to bike, an it's integrated into the crank/spider.

This is precisely why I think the Metrigear product is interesting. It seems to make sense. I just hope it works well. If it does work (at least as well as PT or SRM), I expect that it will be a great alternative, especially since it is supposed to retail for less than $1,000 with Speedplay Zeros and but no CPU (according to the Metrigear FAQ). The only downside would be for those not liking Speedplays. If the product is received well, I'd think other pedal systems would follow.

[Auk]

Changing the crank arm length on the SRM is very simple, and can be done to either the old style crank arms or the Dura-Ace 7800 based arms. Three star-nut boles and takes about 10 minutes to do.

[tsutaoka]

This is precisely why I think the Metrigear product is interesting. It seems to make sense. I just hope it works well. If it does work (at least as well as PT or SRM), I expect that it will be a great alternative, especially since it is supposed to retail for less than $1,000 with Speedplay Zeros and but no CPU (according to the Metrigear FAQ). The only downside would be for those not liking Speedplays. If the product is received well, I'd think other pedal systems would follow.


my two concerns with the metrigear product concept are performance/accuracy and speedplay pedals. i mean pedals take a lot more abuse than simulated riding. they're one of the first touch points in a crash, etc...and the question remains about its durability and accuracy under real life abuses. second, once you get used to dura ace pedals the switch to speedplay is tough to swallow.

[r_mutt]

metrigear seems like a great product- in theory- because that's all there is atm. it's not a product anyone can buy. personally, i'm looking forward to version 2.1. i'll pass on the first one- whenever that comes out. my optimistic guess is at the end of the year.

[cdimattio]

.

[cdimattio]

I am a Powertap 2.4 wireless user without complaint. The disadvantage lies with being tied to a single rear wheel.

I have been giving serious consideration to switching to the Quarq Cinqo. Every it as reliable as the SRM at a lower cost. I believe the crank choices are more than adequate, and it is an innovative made in America product. I understand them to have excellent customer service. Jim Meyer is a super fellow and fellow cyclist. You can actually email and talk to the guy on the phone.

[tsutaoka]

I am a Powertap 2.4 wireless user without complaint. The disadvantage lies with being tied to a single rear wheel.

I have been giving serious consideration to switching to the Quarq Cinqo. Every it as reliable as the SRM at a lower cost. I believe the crank choices are more than adequate, and it is an innovative made in America product. I understand them to have excellent customer service. Jim Meyer is a super fellow and fellow cyclist. You can actually email and talk to the guy on the phone.

I would consider Quarq but crank length is an issue for me. I use 165mm and that means SRM Dura Ace as Quarq doesn't have any 165s.

[tsutaoka]

metrigear seems like a great product- in theory- because that's all there is atm. it's not a product anyone can buy. personally, i'm looking forward to version 2.1. i'll pass on the first one- whenever that comes out. my optimistic guess is at the end of the year.

i agree with waiting for version 2+...i'd also wait for a dura ace pedal version

[tsutaoka]

I would consider Quarq but crank length is an issue for me. I use 165mm and that means SRM Dura Ace as Quarq doesn't have any 165s.

researched quarq and the only crank option for me are the lighting cranks. what they look like are non-bb30 specialized. i'm not too excited about that.

locally, i've been hearing a lot of good things about metrigear...albeit production to market is still open + other pedals are most likely 2011

therefore i'm still leaning towards srm

[ty-ro]

Do the Quarq and SRM measure power the same way? They look the same, but are the innards the same?

[ergott]

great feedback.

i'm a one bike many wheels type, so i still see a trend supporting srm.

i also see Trainingpeaks software WKO+ in the mix.

what are experiences with a wireless srm + garmin 705 headunit + trainingpeaks?

My combo too. Love it.

[ThasFACE]

My combo too. Love it.
Me too and I also have been happy with it, although I just purchased an edge 500.