What size gearing on a fixee??

[Sandy]

On the "Rapid Tourist" fixee ride, I had the only multi-geared bike, sort of. Right before the ride, my rear shifter cable broke, but with the kind help of Too Tall, I had 2 gears for the ride- 39/15 and 53/15. I found the 39/15 fun to ride in.

A 39/15 translates to 70.2 gear inches. A very wise and most competent (I should say excellent) fixed gear rider suggested that I start with a 63 gear inch cog. Assuming I use a 42 tooth front ring, the choice would be a 42/18 ratio which would equate to 63.1 gear inches. Using some tables and a little approximation, that gear combo would give a speed of about 18.3 mph at a cadence of 100. It seems that I would need a very high cadence, even on the flats. Going down a hill of decent grade would have me spinning at a much higher cadence.

Using a 42/16, the gear inch ratio would be 70.9, the equivalent of which I rode in. It should be noted that the ride was mostly flat with a few hills, but very short and not too steep. With a 42/16, a cadence of 100 would equate to a speed of approximately 20.5 mph, and 24.75 at a cadence of 125.

I have decided, assuming I try a fixee, to use a flip flop hub (I think that is what you fixees call it) and get 2 cogs, one for flatter rides and one for hillier rides.

For a 64 year old 219 pound cyclist who is REALLY on a diet, what gearing do you suggest? I WILL be much lighter by the end of the summer. Older too.

Thank you very much for any advice.

Gearhead Sandy

[christian]

I use 40x16 fixed on 622-28 tires. That gives me about 67.9 gear inches, which I think is pretty close to ideal for majority flat, some rolling terrain I encounter in NYC, Westchester, and Bergen/Rockland.

I wouldn't go much above 72 inches, for sure. A woman in my club bought a Specialized Langster which has 48x16 gearing. Delightful... When the road starts pointing uphill, she might as well be going backwards... Whoever spec'ed that bike for Specialized should be knocked upside the head.

- Christian

[TimB]

Sandy,

I use a 42x16 for almost all my fixed riding, and have found it adequate for all but the steepest climbs. The 'trick' here is that a smaller gear might help you get up the hills easier, but it's hell on the way DOWN.

The flip-flop is a good idea to get you started. I actually have a 17 tooth bmx freewheel on the other side of mine - thinking that if I want/need something easier, then coasting might also be nice.

[terry b]

I use 42x16 but own 14 and 18 track cogs for experimental purposes. However, the 16 seems to be pretty good. I can get up a 39x23 hill in it. Not pretty, but I can get up it. With a flip/flop, I'd probably use the 14 and the 18.

[keno]

48/12 would be right for a man of your leg strength. I use a 53/13, but that's too much for you.

keno

[coylifut]

I'd go with the 63 inch gear to start. When fixed, you can control a smaller gear. You can always buy smaller cogs as you adapt. Your knees might not like you if you start out too big. Adapt and then move up.

[FierteTi52]

I ride a 42 x 17 = 67 inch on my winter single speed. I tried an 18 and a 16. I found the 17 just right.
Jeff

[Sandy]

Keno,

After you get down your driveway in your 53/13, what do you do for the rest of the ride? Walk? Push the bike up the hills??

Sandy

[Marron]

I'm using a 44X17 for a hilly commute with a 16 on the other side of the hub for flat or group rides.

To put this all in perspective; Kent Peterson, a local mad man, rode from Seattle to Minnesota on a loaded fixed Merckx. He crossed the Cascades and Rockies on a 50 pound loaded bike using a 48X16. His latest endevour is a second assult on the Trans Rockies race. He's wimping out and using a single speed. I have no idea what gearing he's using, but I know I can catch him pretty easily in my 44X16. Of course he always rides his singlespeed mountain bike fully loaded.

[Too Tall]

Snandy, in these parts you'd be well served riding 68 to 72 gear inches. That's enough gear to keep pace with geared riders who are not hammering and small enough to get up the hills. Less gear inch either restricts you to riding solo or with others in a similar gear. Look at the speed / rpm required for 63 vs 72 at 17mph to get a pic. of what I am talkin' abooooot.

[flydhest]

Sandy,

Just go with the 63. Yes, I'm telling you to ignore TooTall and here's why. You have never ridden a fixed gear bicycle. Discussions of the optimal gear inch size are interesting and useful, but not when you are first learning. The rpms at 18 mph don't matter. The first several rides, we won't be going that fast. The ride with Rapid Tourist could easily have been done in 63 gear inches. In fact, she did and enjoyed it.

The best part, of course, is that you can switch the gears. Get a 16 and an 18, but start with the 18.

[alembical]

I also have a 42 x 17 and it seems perfect for hilly portland (or at least with the conditioning I currently have). I also have the flip flop, but I have not actually flipped it yet. It is set up with a freewheel on the otherside, which could be a nice option if I was to bonk on a long ride.

Alembical

[keno]

Sandy, I made a little bet with myself. I won. You found me out.

48/16 at the track
48/18 on the road

keno

[yarg]

I rode my shorter "area" rides without changing gears on my normal bike. I found that I was most comfortable w/ gearing ~ 76 so my fixed gear is 45x16. I whole heartedly concur that its only half the equation to look at pain going up a hill with high gearing, low gearing coming down is just as bad. You have to choose something you can live with for both conditions in your ride territory.

[Sandy]

I am learning a lot on this thread. I guess one must pick a balanced gear, like you said- Not too hard to kill yourself climbing, but not too low to make your legs look like a helicopter blade on the way down. Both individual rider charateristics and road terrain are critical.

I think I'll use a 56/11 or a 30/34. Just kidding!! :) :)

Fixee- Some Supersonic Speedy Spinning Some Snail Slow Spinning,

Always,

Serotta Sandy (I love my Ottrott)

[Russell]

My Fugi track bike is a 48 x 16. Not bad for most rides, but somewhat steep hills (like my driveway :p ) force me out of the saddle. I am considering changing to a 17 or 18.

[Russell]

I ride a 42 x 17 = 67 inch on my winter single speed. I tried an 18 and a 16. I found the 17 just right.
Jeff

Excuse my ignorance, but how did you calculate the 67 number? Also, is there a guide on what these numbers mean and how they would relate to riding styles?

[Sandy]

You should ride with the Smiley group sometime. We are really not as insane as we seem. Please join us sometime.

Sandy

[Russell]

I'm using a 44X17 for a hilly commute with a 16 on the other side of the hub for flat or group rides.

To put this all in perspective; Kent Peterson, a local mad man, rode from Seattle to Minnesota on a loaded fixed Merckx. He crossed the Cascades and Rockies on a 50 pound loaded bike using a 48X16. His latest endevour is a second assult on the Trans Rockies race. He's wimping out and using a single speed. I have no idea what gearing he's using, but I know I can catch him pretty easily in my 44X16. Of course he always rides his singlespeed mountain bike fully loaded.

Are there any problems with chain length to consider when switching back and forth between the 16 and 17 cogs?

[Russell]

You should ride with the Smiley group sometime. We are really not as insane as we seem. Please join us sometime.

Sandy

Thanks, I'd like to when the weather warms up. I'm a real (insert politically incorrect word) when it comes to cold weather.

[christian]

Excuse my ignorance, but how did you calculate the 67 number?

Gear inches is roughly: chainring / sprocket * wheel diameter

It comes from the days of ordinaries where the wheel diameter resulted in the gear size. So, for a fixie: 40/17x27 gives you about 67.5 gear inches.

For reference a standard double gives gearing from about 40 - 110 gear inches. A standard triple gives gearing from about 25 - 110 gear inches.

Cheers,
- Christian

[Too Tall]

Russell, on the mark dood! Depends on your dropouts or if you've got sufficient adjustment via an eccentric hub. With my old Hetchins that had loooong campag droupouts I could fit a two tooth diff. and that's about it. Most folks with flip flop hubs have the same gear on the other side however it is a BMX gear.

StuporFly, don't tell Sandy to ignore me man...I'm TRYING to get him to walk my mom's dog.

[Orin]

I'm using a 44X17 for a hilly commute with a 16 on the other side of the hub for flat or group rides.

To put this all in perspective; Kent Peterson, a local mad man, rode from Seattle to Minnesota on a loaded fixed Merckx. He crossed the Cascades and Rockies on a 50 pound loaded bike using a 48X16. His latest endevour is a second assult on the Trans Rockies race. He's wimping out and using a single speed. I have no idea what gearing he's using, but I know I can catch him pretty easily in my 44X16. Of course he always rides his singlespeed mountain bike fully loaded.

Kent usually rode a 70 or so inch gear. 48x16 would be 80 inch and insane for anything but flat rides.

For someone new to fixed, I'd say 42x17 or 39x16 (67 inch). Go to 42x16 once you know you can get up all the hills. In the Seattle area, I use 42x17.

Orin.

[NicaDog]

Sandy, are you going straight fixed or single speed on one side with freewheel capabilities? If you are going with a freewheel option on one side, you can do even better with a White Industires Dos Eno sprocket. It has two cogs on it, 16/18 or 17/19 options. They are pretty cool and give you a bail out option.

No relationship with the company, just building up a single speed fixie myself and have been looking into these.

David

[Ray]

I am learning a lot on this thread. I guess one must pick a balanced gear, like you said- Not too hard to kill yourself climbing, but not too low to make your legs look like a helicopter blade on the way down. Both individual rider charateristics and road terrain are critical.
Don't forget that the climb is mechanically un-aidable - you gotta be able to get up the hill. On the descent, on the other hand, you can brake if you really need to. So I'd err on the side of too low. And also don't forget that one of the cool things about riding a fixie is learning to "make your legs look like a helicopter blade". When I started riding fixed, I couldn't spin more than about 120-125 rpm. After a month or so, I could hold 160-170 on downhills that lasted up to a minute or two. I can't quite do that now, but I could get back to that point within a week or so if I started riding the fixie on tougher rides again. I ride a 63" gear. I ride a lot in urban traffic and find this gear to be perfect for quick accellerations and being able to modulate my speed to match traffic - lower gears make this easier.

-Ray

[flydhest]

I am learning a lot on this thread. I guess one must pick a balanced gear, like you said- Not too hard to kill yourself climbing, but not too low to make your legs look like a helicopter blade on the way down. Both individual rider charateristics and road terrain are critical.

I think I'll use a 56/11 or a 30/34. Just kidding!! :) :)

Fixee- Some Supersonic Speedy Spinning Some Snail Slow Spinning,

Always,

Serotta Sandy (I love my Ottrott)

Sandy,

I reiterate, you do not need to pick a gear size now that will be the one that you use for rides. Just get a fixed gear setup with a 63 and we will make sure you don't kill yourself. After that, with some actual experience under your belt, you know, a way to actually interpret what everyone is saying, then we can talk gear inches. At this point, we just need to get you on the bike.

[Dr. Doofus]

69 is divine

[christian]

69 is divine

How can that be, when sixty-seven is clearly heaven?

[pbbob]

63 sandy, listen to the fly, he does not lie.

[Climb01742]

sandy, like you need another opinion but...consider either a single speed or a flip/flop hub. play it safe at first. sure, from a purist POV, fixee is a "better" workout...no contest there. but a single speed gives you many of the same benefits but at the beginning, is far safer/easier on your knees. i'm gonna follow my own advice...i'm gonna switch my MXL to a single speed commuter. SS lets you safely test the waters. you can always move to a fixee later...vs. trying to recover from a knee injury. just my .02. :rolleyes:

[flydhest]

climb,

what's the benefit of building a single speed road bike when he already has a broken derailleur cable and can't shift anyway?

SS makes sense if you want simplicity and lightweight, but that's about it compared to just riding your road bike and not shifting.

Fixed gears are an entirely different world.

I don't see how the knees argument comes into it at all. I'm trying to make sure he starts on an easy gear. He's going to have brakes. So what could a fixed gear do to his knees if he's in an easy gear and has brakes?

[Climb01742]

fly,
learning to ride a fixee is a learning curve. at least it was for me when i tried it a few years ago. i had a flip/flop hub and after awhile ended up using only the free-wheel side. i tweaked my knees while trying to get used the the fixee side.
am i a spaz? yes. am i less coordinated that many folks? yes. did traffic, dogs, potholes and stop signs give me pause? yes.
will sandy experience any of these things? maybe yes, maybe no.
i was just giving him another POV. you and others here are far more fixee savvy than i am. i was just relating my experience.
climb.

[flydhest]

I'm not sure I got how you tweaked your knees. As far as I can tell, to avoid that, you want a smaller gear, no?

Regardless, is there a benefit to a singlespeed versus just not shifting?

[FierteTi52]

Here is a link to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

Jeff

[Climb01742]

simplicity and lower maintenance/clean-up, particularly in lousy weather. and for me, there is a visual purity as well. and call me lazy, but i like being able to coast when i want to. i'm not saying ss is better than fixee. i'm just saying i personally find it more enjoyable.

[zap]

I don't see how the knees argument comes into it at all.

Sorry Fly, but your wrong there.

The other reason for me not wanting a fixed gear bike is because of my knees. If I feel a slight twinge in my left knee because of my patellar tendon, I just shift to an easier gear and spin at a higher cadence.

Riding at a high cadence properly, and in all these years I've only seen 3 people that can, also puts a strain on connective tissue behind the knee.

I know quite a few people who won't ride fixed gear bikes for this and other reasons.

[Too Tall]

Kent Peterson! Great guy. That must be the same fellow I rode with in Wisconson at Brevet Week? Snappy dresser :cool:

OK, so here is the deal Sandy. Give Fly a blank cashier's check. Clearly he is a trustworth man and we'll buy you a fixed gear than you ride it.

Boy, that was easy.

[flydhest]

Zap,

That argument, I get, mostly. Climb was saying that riding a single speed was going to be easier on the knees than riding a fixed gear. If pedalling too quickly is the problem, then on down hills, one has a brake. I don't see how the singlespeed is easier on the knees.

Your comment, about shifting to an easier gear if you feel like your knee is starting to twinge, says to me that my point was right, that most affliction to the knee comes from too high a gear.

Did I mention that TooTall's a genius?

[keno]

but I should throw this in and I hope it doesn't mess up your project. You will have to carry a 15mm wrench in order to flip-flop or fix a flat. Just wanted you to know what you are getting into. No quick release skewers in this world. I'm not trying to be a monkey.

keno

I've been fixed, too

[Climb01742]

fly, it takes time to get used to pedalling constantly. regardless of the gear. when i tweaked my knee it wasn't on a hill. it was on coming down a hill, and i wasn't skilled enough to coordinate the pedally and the braking. once you've learned how to ride a fixee, then yes the issue is what gear is right. but before that point, learning how to ride a fixee, you can tweak your knee simply trying to pedal, brake, steer, think, breathe...all without stopping. maybe i'm more challenged than others, but...

[christian]

No quick release skewers in this world.

If your hubs have replaceable axles, there is no reason you can't have a quick-release skewer and hollow axle on a fixed gear bike.

A good-quality, internal-cam quick release skewer will exert more clamping force on the dropouts than a 15mm track nut.

Admittedly, buying a quick-release fixed gear hub might not be easy, but there is no technical reason why this is not a good combination. The reason that track nuts are common is because quick releases are not allowed in track racing, but that shouldn't limit your options on the road.

Regards,
- Christian

[zap]

Brakes on a fixed gear bike! Sacrilege.

The problem is, if you use a midget gear so going up hills can be done at a snails pace, then going downhill (OK hit the brakes if you have them) and pacing on the flats is going to suck. I like pacing on the flats as much as I like going up hill.

There's a reason why Mr. Campagnolo introduced the deraileur.

Hey Sandy, we forgot about that one. Campy came out with the deraileur first. Shimano was doing what at the time?

[Sandy]

Selling Shimano components all over the world??

Shimano Salesman Sandy

[Climb01742]

sandy, have we helped or confused you?

[zap]

Selling Shimano components all over the world??

In the 30's :no:

[vaxn8r]

On the "Rapid Tourist" fixee ride, I had the only multi-geared bike, sort of. Right before the ride, my rear shifter cable broke, but with the kind help of Too Tall, I had 2 gears for the ride- 39/15 and 53/15. I found the 39/15 fun to ride in.

A 39/15 translates to 70.2 gear inches. A very wise and most competent (I should say excellent) fixed gear rider suggested that I start with a 63 gear inch cog. Assuming I use a 42 tooth front ring, the choice would be a 42/18 ratio which would equate to 63.1 gear inches. Using some tables and a little approximation, that gear combo would give a speed of about 18.3 mph at a cadence of 100. It seems that I would need a very high cadence, even on the flats. Going down a hill of decent grade would have me spinning at a much higher cadence.

Using a 42/16, the gear inch ratio would be 70.9, the equivalent of which I rode in. It should be noted that the ride was mostly flat with a few hills, but very short and not too steep. With a 42/16, a cadence of 100 would equate to a speed of approximately 20.5 mph, and 24.75 at a cadence of 125.

I have decided, assuming I try a fixee, to use a flip flop hub (I think that is what you fixees call it) and get 2 cogs, one for flatter rides and one for hillier rides.

For a 64 year old 219 pound cyclist who is REALLY on a diet, what gearing do you suggest? I WILL be much lighter by the end of the summer. Older too.

Thank you very much for any advice.

Gearhead Sandy
I guess I'm the only one who thinks its a horrible idea. I see fixies good for slender guys who can fly up hills and/or super strong mashers who can power up hills. Does these apply to you? Think about other guys you have seen on fixies. What do they look like? I think you are going to suffer on the hills and be spinning yourself silly on the flats. I think it's a dumb idea.

I keep asking myself why? What is the advantage you're looking for?

[William]

Sandy,
You could go, as a few folks have suggested, the single speed route. Get used to using one gear. Mentally toughen yourself by concentrating on peddling as much as possible without coasting. On the down-hills, try to stay with the gear as long as possible before you spin out (or modulate the brakes to keep your self on top of the gear).

Or not.

Only you can decide.

William (who goes both ways.....you know what I mean) :rolleyes:

[csb]

sandy, dig that old coaster brake bike out of the cellar.
if you've already re-cycled it into a canoe anchor, then
head out to the suburbs and buy yourself a garage sale
coaster brake bike.

[Ray]

I guess I'm the only one who thinks its a horrible idea. I see fixies good for slender guys who can fly up hills and/or super strong mashers who can power up hills. Does these apply to you? Think about other guys you have seen on fixies. What do they look like? I think you are going to suffer on the hills and be spinning yourself silly on the flats. I think it's a dumb idea.

I keep asking myself why? What is the advantage you're looking for?
I'm not all that slender at 170 pounds and I've NEVER been accused of flying up hills. And I'm no kind of masher. But I ride a fixed in urban traffic a LOT and in the hills enough to be able to handle it. Jeez, look at Sheldon Brown, the guru of all things fixed. He's lost a bunch of weight lately, but he used to be HUGE and he rode fixies almost everywhere.

In terms of the "advantage", some say there is one, some say there isn't. But the significant majority of people who try fixed, LOVE it! It's just a total blast, a totally different type of riding that changes the way you perceive bicycles. There are certainly examples of people who don't react that way and never warm up to fixed riding. But so many of those who try it end up really liking it that it's worth it for almost anyone to try it as long as there isn't a huge expense involved, which there never is. I was skeptical before I tried it, but I was addicted within a couple of rides and haven't looked back. I think it also made me a stronger rider, particularly those first couple of years.

If Sandy doesn't like it, that CSI can always be converted back to a geared bike.

-Ray

[woolly]

The advantage is that it's FUN. I would encourage anybody to give it a try.

Flydhest sounds like a guy that's spent a bunch of time on a fixee, and I think the advice he's given here is spot-on. It IS a different world.

Sandy, start with the 18 cog. Ride slow, get used to it. Have fun. Don't analyze it. When you feel stronger & smoother, spend an extra $25 on a 17 cog. Have fun. If and when you feel you've "outgrown" that one, repeat the $25 spending exercise w/ a 16. Have fun. Switch back & forth between your fixee and your geared Ottrott. Have fun. Send a pic of your new fixed-gear best friend to Dennis at fixedgeargallery.com. Then go ride it and have some more fun.

It CAN be addicting. I know, I'm hooked. I started w/ a Surly, moved up to a Serotta Colorado II, and am waiting for my Don Ferris Anvil fixee-specific full-custom frame/fork to arrive any day now (and THAT day is gonna be SUH-WEEEEET!!!!!!!)

Did I mention that it's FUN?

- Chris

[vaxn8r]

I'm not all that slender at 170 pounds
-Ray
You just made my point. Next time out wear a 50 lb. pack and see how fun it is.

I know it can be fun. My point is that I don't think it will be fun for Sandy. If Sandy loves it. I'll be the first to say I was wrong.

[vaxn8r]

But the significant majority of people who try fixed, LOVE it!
-Ray
Since only about 0.00008% (maybe less) of bike riders ride a fixie you're looking at a very skewed, hard-core cycling cohort.

[Sandy]

I think this is a great thread. Not because I started it, but because of the many varied and diverse opinions, done with thought and insight. Different opinions of gearing to use, whether to used a fixee or single gear or combination, or it's simply a bad idea for me. I really appreciate the thoughts.

vaxn8r has made some great points. I am 64 years old and presently weigh 218, down from 225 a couple of weeks ago. I am almost 50 pounds heavier than Ray. As vaxn8r says, add another 50 pounds to your present weught and see how easily you climb. Climb and Zap have made a case for the possibility of injury during the learning process. That is the last thing that I want to occur.

It doesn't make much sense for me to ride a single gear bike, since I can do that on my bike by simply leaving the bike in one gear. The fact that a single gear or fixed bike is easier to keep clean means little to me. I could see a single speed bike as having an advantage over a fixee in that you can coast if you are getting too tired from constantly pedaling. A fixee certainly gives a better workout.

So does it make sense for Sandy to even try a fixee? Up until the ride in which I was stuck in a single gear, I would have said that it is not worth trying it. Too little to gain, and possible injury. But I really enjoyed riding in one gear. It made me become more efficient in pedalling as the terrrain changed and it even seemed somehow to help my pedal stroke. It was surprisingly fun to do. With all the varied great content given in the thread and sometimes greatly differing thoughts, I am not sure at this point what to do. You guys and gals certainly are impressive in what you say and how you say it.

Sandy

[Climb01742]

sandy, you seem psyched to try it. dude, go for it. life is too short to not do it. you have lots of folks near you to coach/guide you. i tried it on my own. maybe that colored my experience. maybe try a flip/flop hub at first, to give you a bail out option. then move to full time fixee hub. whichever, try it. there is one thing fly and i agree on: there is a real beauty and simplicity to using one gear. we just get there differently. if nothing else, experiment. you can always go back. with help, the injury risk is very low. and the fun potential is very high.

[William]

Ditto.

Sandy is as Sandy does! ;)

William

[Smiley]

I for one was a SKEPTIC untill I took the plunge last year . Fact is Sandy will have soooo many friends that ride fixed with him that he can't help but not like the fun part of it . Injury and all else is BALONEY as Sandy will be converting a perfectly fitting CSI to make his fixed needs work for him . I say life is way too short not to spend $ 400 to give it a shot , his CSI is collecting dust not doing a thing but leaning against a wall now , so WHY not people .
Sandy sell me your CSI if your not going to FIX it :banana:

All Sandy needs is a new rear White industries rear hub laced to a Mavic rim , new 42 ring up front with a 16 or 18 rear and new chain and we got us a FIXEEE . Tops he spends $ 400 and that soley due to the cost of the more expensive White hub needed for the drop outs . In Sandys own words if his Ottrott is an expensive Tuna Fish sandwich this is pretzel money :banana:

Yeah Baby yeah

[Too Tall]

Forgot one thing Smiley. Let me do the wrenching ;)

[keno]

Smiley asked "WHY not people" (personally, I might have said instead "WHY NOT, people" or "why NOT, people"). Only with your request will I do so.

keno

[dbrk]

I for one was a SKEPTIC untill I took the plunge last year . Fact is Sandy will have soooo many friends that ride fixed with him that he can't help but not like the fun part of it . Injury and all else is BALONEY as Sandy will be converting a perfectly fitting CSI to make his fixed needs work for him . I say life is way too short not to spend $ 400 to give it a shot , his CSI is collecting dust not doing a thing but leaning against a wall now , so WHY not people .
Sandy sell me your CSI if your not going to FIX it :banana:
All Sandy needs is a new rear White industries rear hub laced to a Mavic rim , new 42 ring up front with a 16 or 18 rear and new chain and we got us a FIXEEE .


I am headed to the jungle of Costa Rica tomorrow and Mira the Guarddog will be here minding the place, just in case anyone wants to try to get down the three feet of snow in the driveway, but the thought of Our Own Sanford on fixee was enough to grab my attention, smile, and chirp up a bit...

I quote Smiley 'cause he is totally right. Riding fixed is a _different_ cycling experience than freewheeling or gearing. It is not at all the same as staying put in one gear. The odds on injury are near nil after the first 15 minutes of "Oh, okay, you have to brake WHILE you pedal..." Mastering this anti-intutitive notion won't take too long, that's for sure! But it's not life-threatening unless you have only froward, impious notions that threaten your well-being in realms extending far beyond cycling.

While it is certainly true that different frames offer different experiences---even when they are set up, more or less the same---this is not really much of a leap out of complacency. For a more substantial change in experience I think one can try different _types_ of cycling (say, mindful friction vs no-mind index) but few can match the joys and simplicity of fixed riding. Sandy, I admire you to pieces. This is a GREAT idea. If you don't like it, you tried something new, and at our age that reminds us we are alive.

Okay, gotta go. See you all when Sandy passes me on the road, riding his fixie. Oh yeah, gearing...like Flydhest said but I would rather spin out than grind. Think of the cog as about half the ring and you are spinning easy going...

take care!

dbrk

[Ray]

You just made my point. Next time out wear a 50 lb. pack and see how fun it is.

OK, fair enough. I'll have to rest on the Sheldon Brown argument. I believe he was in the mid-200s until the past year or so. And he owned several fixies and rode them almost exclusively.

Since only about 0.00008% (maybe less) of bike riders ride a fixie you're looking at a very skewed, hard-core cycling cohort.

Agree here too, but anyone hard-core enough to spend as much time thinking about bikes, riding them, and hanging out here as Sandy does is in that cohort.

I recognize that Sandy might not like it. But, as Climb said, he sure sounds curious, at the very least. Which tells me he should TRY it. Not make a lifetime committment to it before he ever rides one. Just try it. Again, if it was a serious financial issue, maybe not. But, otherwise, why not try? Ease into any hill climbing. Start with flat rides and a low gear and gradually introduce really easy hills. If he gets warning signs of injury during this phase, easy enough to bag it. But, to slide directly in to cliche, nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that.

One other quick note - I started riding fixies about 8 years ago. For the first few years I loved it so much I made it a point to ride fixed EVERYWHERE. I did all the same crazy hilly rides on the fixie I do on my geared bikes, although rarely the same distances. It was eye-opening, it was great, it was zen-like, it was wonderful. Etc. But it also got pretty tiring after a while, so I gradually cut back. These days, probably 80-90% of my fixed gear riding is on flat to rolling terrain in urban traffic. There's NOTHING like the directness of a fixie in traffic and I use it for that kind of riding a LOT. I still get out on a few 30-40 mile semi-hilly rides on it during the winter, but that's just to test myself. I don't enjoy it enough any more to keep coming back for more. Which is the long way of saying that anyone can try fixed and limit it to relatively flat rides or relatively short rides or both. Riding the hills on a fixie is an education, but not one that everyone needs. Again, easy enough to avoid hill-induced injury.

-Ray

[dirtdigger88]

:banana: :banana: :banana: I missed your posts friend- great to hear from you again even if it is only now and again- safe travels

Jason

[bags27]

Is Douglas back??? Did you smoke him out, Sandy, with the fixee question, or did I miss an earlier contribution by him? In any event, it's so great to hear from him. But he may be a little out of practice, because he failed to recommend--as he certainly would if he were in shape--the Rivendell Quickbeam, which gives you two fixed gear options. It's a beautiful bike, and I would have bought one had I not already built a fixie.

Just go for it: it's not magic or difficult. It's just a little different: practice a few times in a parking lot, and you should be ready to go. Think of all those little kids on their trykes: that's what they're riding. And people do the Furnace Creek 508 on fixies now.

I found that the flip flop free wheel was a waste of money. I have met a hill I can't climb on my fixie, but it's a lot easier to just walk the bike up than get all messy with the chain.

[flydhest]

You just made my point. Next time out wear a 50 lb. pack and see how fun it is.


vax, that's me, or it was two months ago. I am no stranger to 220 pounds.

I know it can be fun. My point is that I don't think it will be fun for Sandy. If Sandy loves it. I'll be the first to say I was wrong.
I think you're concerned about the same thing I am. I told him that if he wants to try it, I would ride with him here in Rock Creek Park in the area that is flat and closed to traffic. That way, in a controlled environment, he could get the hang of it and see if he likes it. After that, everything else is fair game in my view.

[Dekonick]

Silly superior singlespeed Serotta Sandy:

Somehow you should search your soul - you will find a fixxie can help!

It is different but fun to ride. May I suggest you try some flat paved paths first? The downhill portion is -ahem- interesting the first few times. Come to Ellicott City and we can head to the BWI airport loop path - you can go +/- 10 miles in a relatively flat circle. There are hills, but nothing like Illchester... and if you want flatter trails the path goes to Annapolis (+/- 40 miles if you include the BWI portion)

Why here you ask?

1) It consists of gentle grades (less likely to die downhill)
2) during the week its void of people
3) It's a safe place to learn
4) you can play with truckie before and after each and every ride

[Too Tall]

Sandy, Fly wants to know why the check bounced.

[Sandy]

It was your check?? :)

Sandy

[Marron]

Jeesh! For something of interest to only .0008% of the riding population this sure got the juices flowing. I think it shows you that riding fixed must fundamentaly alter your brain structure and function; you can't stop thinking or talking about it. What does that tell you about whether it's worth trying?

On a more practical note, I'd say that Sandy should go for the real experience and muscle through the inevitable learning aches and pains. Even an experienced fixed rider has to spend some time re-learning the technique if they've been off fixed for a while. It's a fundamentaly different experience that takes getting used to. We're all trying to verbalize what's different about it but five minutes on a fixee will tell you more than the many thousands of words posted here. It's nothing like riding you regular road bike in one gear. It's kind of like bacon and eggs; the chicken's involved, but the pig is committed!

[Smiley]

"It's kind of like bacon and eggs; the chicken's involved, but the pig is committed!"

Great line dude ... So which one is Sandy ...the chicken or the pig ?
Oh I forgot Sandy is Kosher :banana:

[Sandy]

I used to be a real pig when I would eat, but now I am on a real diet.

I used to be a chicken thinking about riding a fixee, but now I am only 1/2 a chicken.

Bacon and Eggs,

Sandy

[zap]

Sandy, for whatever it's worth, I'd say go for it. Try it and take it easy at first. Ride with Fly or TT so that they can give you pointers and hopefully prevent you from getting that dreaded bouncing butt syndrome.

At least put on a front brake so that you can slow yourself down on the descents.

Injury and all else is BALONEY as Sandy will be converting a perfectly fitting CSI to make his fixed needs work for him .

Smiley, I don't know about you (or the rest of you), but if my cadence is going to hit 130+ and trying to do it SMOOTHLY, I'm utilizing different muscles than at my normal cadence of 80-90. Doesn't matter if the frame is perfectly fitted.

So Sandy, when you start riding a fixed gear, take it easy so that your connective tissue gets acclimated. Remember to stretch those hamstrings.

:beer:

[flydhest]

What zap said!

[Rapid Tourist]

Sandy, I hope you get a fixed gear and, after two fixed rides, I can tell you that its a ton of fun. Its very, very different and in some ways easier because the momentum of the rear wheel actually pushes your pedals, which doesn't happen on a freewheel bike.

I thought I was riding on a 63 inch gear last weekend, but alas my calculations were off. Aaaaahhhhh, math was never the tourist's forte... After using the harriscyclery gear inch calculator it appears I was actually running 61 gear inches (which was too much spinning and braking on the downhills). So, I just ordered a new chainring which will push me up to 63 and I'll report back.

Personally, I don't see how anyone but YOU can determine what gear is right for you. It has so much to do with your personal fitness level, how much you can spin, and the terrain YOU ride on.

So, the trick is to start in a gear, like 63 or so, and change things around from there as you take some rides. HAVE FUN. And I require that you let me supervise you on your first ride, because I'm an expert. :D :D :D

By the way, when you all change your gearing, do you change out the cog or the chainring?? A guy at harriscyclery told me its easier to change the chainring.

Thanks!

[steve]

Sandy:

One rainy December afternoon, I passed a cool bike shop in the lower East side of Manhattan. They had on display a Soma Rush, a black steel framed fixed gear bike that happened to be in my size. So, on a complete whim purchased it. I did not know what I was thinking nor how to rationalize another bike purchase.

With winter weather cooperating, I finally got the nerve to ride it three weeks ago on a relatively flat bike path in Westchester county near where I live. It took a few miles to get used to starting and stopping and after that it was effortless. I did not have enough confidence to clip in, so I used some flat pedals that I had in my parts bin. The maiden ride was only about 15 miles in total. Definitely a different biking experience and I couldn’t wait for my next ride. It was weird, but fun all at the same time

My second ride, also on the bike path, was about 30 miles. Feeling more comfortable, I actually was slowing and stopping without using the front brake. A fixed-gear provides a totally new dimension in riding, feeling like you are part of the bike. Also, without a freewheel, the bike is virtually silent as you ride. I think I will now try a quick spin on some local roads with some minor hills.

I can’t tell you yet that riding this bike will improve the smoothness of my spin or force me to spin at higher cadences or improve my out-of-saddle climbing. What I can tell you so far that it's been a lot of fun learning a new biking skill set. While just a few years behind you in age, I still find it fun to learn new sports skills, especially those I can master without too much time or pain!

Go for it!

[TimB]

Sandy,

If you go with the White ENO Flip-Flop on a Mavic rim to run on the CSI, let me know. If you _hate_ riding fixed, I know a certain TimB who would be happy to pay you fifty-cents on the dollar for such a wheel. And, if you like it, well, I'd like to get your impressions on the hub, how easy it is to adjust chain tension, etc.

[flydhest]

Tim,

Step back, baby, he already has a deal like that from yours truly :D

I'm thinking about my 'cross bike being a fixed gear if'n Sandy don't take to it.

[alembical]

Sandy,

Why not try the fixed gear? The cost to set one up is so minimal. You can probably even find a used wheel, or if you have a wheel built up, you can always resell it for 80% + of its cost ( & it would cost under $200 for a real nice one).

My commuter bike (heavy, steel, fenders, racks, etc...) had a broken RD for years. It was for all intents and purposes, a single speed, but it had a cassette, and I could always add a link and change gears if I had been inclined. It took me awhile to find the gear that I liked for my commute. I then decided to make it fixed and I have been so happy ever sense. It is just fun to ride.

I am not as large as you, but I am 200 lbs and ride a real heavy bike in a hilly area, and I love the fixed. Call it sacrilegious if you will, but I have brakes on the bike and it will be awhile (if ever) before I even consider taking them off.

It is real hard to explain, but it is just fun. Is it as fast, easy, practical ? - no, but who cares it is fun, and that is what is important to me.

Alembical

Mine is a 42 x 17 and I love it.

[Too Tall]

Fix'ers, why has this become the new best thing? In the mid 80's I was leading fixed gear only rides for the local touring club and we had a steady turn out for a couple years and than echo echo echo nada. Now fixed gear is all the rage. It's a good thing but why the popularity?

[Marco]

If our man Sandy is going to make his CSI into a fixie, how does it work? I thought that you need to have horizontal dropouts and as such the vertical Style 3-d Serotta Stuff won't work. Any of you VeloFixie riders using vertical dropouts?

[flydhest]

I am sort of curious about the cyclicality of fixed gear riding. I first tried it when I was racing and Coach had us ride fixies in the winter. Ever since, I've been jonesin' to get a fix of my own. I've had the bug for about 10 years now, what about you other fixie riders?

I know Smiley is a recent convert, as is the Rapid Tourist.

Marco:

White Industries, for example, makes an eccentric hub that allows you to tension the chain while using vertical drop outs. It's a very nifty design as far as I can tell. I have held them, but never used them.
http://www.whiteind.com/ENO_web/eric.html

[Sandy]

This thread is getting out of hand. If I don't try a fixee, I would feel that I would be letting people down.

Sandy

[Climb01742]

letting psople down.Sandy

people, too, sandy. :rolleyes:

[William]

Can't we all just get along and let the man decide for...HIMSELF!!


William

PS: Sandy? What's a psople? :confused:

;) :D

[Sandy]

I just changed psople to people. William, you should have know!! I was starting to change people to ssssss, one letter at a time. I am planning to slowly change all words to all s letters.

Example- S Ssss Sss, Sssss!
Translation- I miss you, Kevan!

Sssss

[Too Tall]

How could we have overlooked the power of a guilt trip????

You are up to two dog walks. Nah, one walk for every day until you get on your very own fixed gear.

BTW what is our frame size? I've got all sorts of junk.

[William]

Yo, you talkin to me??? :confused:

I got sumthin fer ya....no, I's got two somthins fer ya. ;)

A box, I need a box!!!:beer:


William :)

[Too Tall]

WOW! a new record. Two fish with one bird :) No William I wasn't guilt tripping you...how could I???? Sandy on the other hand....

Besides W' the frames I've got are too small for you pal or you'd already have them :)

[Dekonick]

In regard to how you make a fixxie with vertical drops...

The white industry hub everyone is talking about lets you use vertical drops and the hub lets you tension the chain. With older horizontal drops you just kinda pull back on the wheel and tighten the rear bolts.

Need a frame that works? Check out this guy applecart on ebay - he is always selling fixxies converted from 80's frames.

You can also buy a Surly cross-check (steel frame) for cheap - its built to do just about anything.

I dont care what anyone else says - put brakes on the derned bike. Your knee's will thank you.

Sandy - Truckie is whining... :D

[Marron]

Now we're really going to get into it! If you think arguing over 63 vs. 70 inch gearing is bad wait until you start ****ering over the exact combination of chainring and cogs to get there. Primes (mathmatical not cash), ratios and tire wear get thrown into the mix. For the truely hardcore it has some bearing. If you're relying on your rear tire for braking you supposedly can avoid flat spots by using certain chainring/cog combinations.

Having said that, chainrings are cheaper than cogs, somewhat easier to swap and variable in smaller increments; so there's some utility to making adjustments at the crank. I personally like older BMX chainrings which have the appropriate teeth for fixed riding and come cross drilled for 130BCD. They can usually be found for well under $20.