Trek design...

[madbiker]

Here is a photo of Mike Barries trek:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/probikes/?id=barry_discovery_trek

Its not often you see a pro rider with several spacers under his stem, but it seems like all the posties have this kind of setup on their treks. Is this something wacky in the Trek geometry that puts them on smaller frames and having to boost the bars up???

[Peter]

Well that's interesting; I was just over at the VeloNews forum and someone posted a link to an e-bay auction of a Trek Madone using THE EXACT SAME PHOTO. I smell a scam!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=98084&item=7138275368&rd=1

[CalfeeFly]

Discovery aka Postal truly ride stock bikes. The way their bikes are manufactured there is no way to custom size each one. (The beginning mold is for Lance and they size from there.) Therefore to get the fit you want spacers would have to be used. We all ride differently as do the pros.

[coylifut]

That bike looks like it has less saddle to bar drop than most. Maybe he just likes his bars higher.

[madbiker]

I think most of the posties use spacers like this, no?
Makes it seem like the Trek top tubes are too long for them, so they size down and prop up the bars...

[Bill Bove]

the bike as it is shown will not be available to the public untill June, according to my Trek rep anyway. He has multiple sizes for sale, pre approved bidders only and a starting price way,way below retail. stay far, far away from this one.

[Sandy]

Ok, call me dumb, but I don't understand how they can add spacers under the stem to make the bike fit better. If the bike is stock, isn't the steerer precut, with little or no room to go higher using spacers?

Spacer Spaced Sandy

[Bill Bove]

Sandy, the bike is stock only in that it is the same frame as is sold to the public. When the Disco mechanics get the frames they are unassembled and the forks are uncut. from there they are fitted to each rider with spacers as needed and assembled with sponsors parts that don't always match up to the catologue specs i.e. Shimano seat posts and Hutchinson tires instead of cat. speced Bontragers.

[Sandy]

Thanks. Now I understand.

Sandy

[Len J]

Here is a photo of Mike Barries trek:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/probikes/?id=barry_discovery_trek

Its not often you see a pro rider with several spacers under his stem, but it seems like all the posties have this kind of setup on their treks. Is this something wacky in the Trek geometry that puts them on smaller frames and having to boost the bars up???

Trek geometry is screwy. They measure seat tube length to the top of the seat tube collar. So a 56 has a 56 TT but more like a 52 ST. this results in very short head tubes. Hence the need for spacers.

I've never understood this.

Len

[LegendRider]

Not only do Trek's have ridicuously short head tubes, but the trail (front end geometry) is very odd too - often 5.1cm the larger sizes. That's a big difference from most. Merckx's - famous for great handling - have trail numbers around 6.0 cm often. Maybe the jerk could shed some light on this since he seems connected with Trek/Bontrager.

[Keith A]

Although I'm certainly not as knowledgeable as Senior Jerk, I have ridden and raced on an OCLV for a number of years. Yes, their top tubes are on the long side. Trek’s seat tube measurement is from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of the seat collar. So when Lemond was selling the OCLVs under his label, the 56cm Trek was the same size as a Lemond 53cm (ctc). So that would be a 53cm frame with a 56cm top tube. Therefore, it is common to have to adjust your handlebar height to compensate for riding a frame that has a shorter seat tube and thus your saddle is up their.

Regarding their trail numbers and handling, I must say that the OCLVs are very well mannered. They are very stable and not twitchy at all. When I road my CSi (that uses Serotta's older geometry) for the first time, it was noticeably quicker handling than my OCLV and it took me a little while to get used to the CSi. Overall, the OCLV is a very well balanced racing machine and I have raced in both crits and road races with this and was always comfortable and confident on this bike.

Regarding the auction, there are several red flags for this one:
● The Seller is "Not a registered user" -- how can this be possible to have an auction as an unregistered user?????
● They list several sizes available and then give the "critical measurements" including the rider's height, weight and tip of saddle to center of bars. All of this information (including the picture) was lifted directly off of CyclingNew's website (http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005/probikes/?id=barry_discovery_trek)
● They give an e-mail address to contact them at instead of using eBay's communication method.
● As someone else mentioned, this price is way low for a brand new Trek Madone 5.9

[Dave]

The bikes are measured screwy, from the center of the BB to the top of the seat tube, so a "56cm" frame measures about 54cm c-t or 52.5cm c-c, the TT length is a whopping 56cm, compared to 52-53 for a Serotta of the same c-c size.

[madbiker]

Regardess of how they are 'measure', they just have plain screwy sizing! At one point I was interested in a trek, but to get a TT length that would allow me to use a 110 or 120 stem, I'd have to have a frame with 2 inches of spacers under the stem. If I wanted a frame with not many spacers under the stem, I'd have to use a 100 stem because of the stupd long TT. Sucks..

[zap]

Anyone notice that he's 6'2" and 149lbs!

[Keith A]

madbiker -- You are indeed correct about the sizing. I ended compromising by going with a "bigger" frame and am using a 100mm stem. It handles fine, but I'm not crazy about how the shorter stem looks.

[Skrawny]

The bike on E-Bay "has been removed by eBay or is no longer available"

[Serotta PETE]

THe TREK carbon frame geo is somewhat different. Seems the top tube is long in relation to what most associate with as a "norm" for a given size. (especially in larger sizes.)

A friend of mine had a great looking 55oo but could not get rid of the back pains. When he finally got to an 80 stem with upward slope, I was able to talk him into going over and seeing Mike at Cyclesport. YEP, he is now riding a Legend ST and is nothing but smiles.

Rumors, at least around here, is that TREK has such a demand for the high end carbon bikes, that there is a very long wait. They are good frames - - -if they fit you.

[dirtdigger88]

this is the same thing with Lemond bikes- I always hear that the bikes have long TTs- I say they have short STs :p

jason

[bcm119]

Of all the Trek Empire bike brands, Klein has the best geometry for the average cyclist, imho. In fact, I like the new Klein geo alot. Kleins always seem to feel just right to me.

[Bill Bove]

Of all the Trek Empire bike brands, Klein has the best geometry for the average cyclist, imho. In fact, I like the new Klein geo alot. Kleins always seem to feel just right to me.
where do Kleins come from? Ah, you mossheads all stick together.

[bcm119]

Well, I do like moss green better than oh, say, pink... but I'm a new yorker at heart.

We do have some exceptional bikes being made up here in the pnw though.

[Kevan]

this bike is built and setup so that the bars can be switched over from road to time trialing? Maybe just for training porpoise. ;)

[Keith A]

Maybe just for training porpoise.So are they now teaching dolphins to ride a bike? :D

[Ozz]

where do Kleins come from? Ah, you mossheads all stick together.
Are they still being made in Chehalis...at the end of "Klein Road"?

If so, good to hear....I thought they moved production when Trek bought them????

[Bill Bove]

I'm pretty sure that of all the Trek brands, Klein is still the most autonomous. Gary himself is still very involved with all aspects of design and production leaving distribution and marketing to the cheeseheads.

[jerk]

all kleins are now made is wisconsin. oclvs have short head tubes for a couple of different reasons....none of which are entirely good reasons but none of them are really bad either. firstly, they're race bikes and are sized and proportioned as such....they're not really all that different from other race bikes. secondly, the original molds were for race bikes which still used fairly tall stack headsets and 1 inch quill stems....hence to get the bars in the right place the head tubes were pretty short. when they changed the thing to 1 1/8th they didn't change the geometry. when they went to the madone they didn't change the geometry....the geometry had been working really well so why screw it up? the jerk (despite himself) likes the way oclv bikes handle. they don't really have any bad traits. anyway, trek has the pilot series of carbon bikes for folks who want a sligtly higher head tube. don't expect any changes in the geometry of trek racing bikes untill lance retires.....they won't screw with what's working and what he likes nor should they.
jerk

[vaxn8r]

the jerk (despite himself) likes the way oclv bikes handle. they don't really have any bad traits.
Having ridden (and raced) one for about 6 years I can concur with this. Very neutral handling. There are no glaring weaknesses. Fairly stiff, efficient, handles well climbs well, descends with confidence. The build quality is only average. Mine now has fenders. An awesome rain bike!