S&S Coupler Retrofit [Archive] - The Paceline Forum

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TomP

12-30-2009, 09:48 AM

fiamme red

12-30-2009, 09:53 AM

The people at Bilenky know what they're doing. They certainly seem to take pleasure in cutting frames apart. ;)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/26208450@N02/3766381068/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3434/3766381068_92bb7fb40e_b.jpg

oldpotatoe

12-30-2009, 09:57 AM

Hi,

I'm thinking of having my Merlin Extralight retrofit for traveling. From what I've read the S&S couplers are very good and Bilenky Cycles seems to be one of the best and most experienced at this. Does anyone have an opinion?

Thanks.

Yes to above. It is very difficult to retro-fit an existing frame and ensure it's straight and the same dimensions as before. Bilenky have been doing it for a long time.

Smiley

12-30-2009, 10:01 AM

My money is also on Bilenky and if they will be at NAHBS 2010 I may strip my wifes Legend down and have them cut it in two.

bluehorseshoe

12-30-2009, 10:02 AM

I think Bilenky does great work. I had them retrofit a serotta atlanta with couplers, and the execution and finish far exceeded my expectations -- it was a rush job (on my request), and I didn't expect the perfect, seamless color matching that I got (with a tough, multi-layered color like pinot noir).

I also have a coupled cross bike they built for me, and its exactly what I wanted, just executed to a higher standard than I thought it would be.

They're very good to work with, I think.

redir

12-30-2009, 10:05 AM

Hahahah thats a great picture :beer:

goonster

12-30-2009, 10:12 AM

My money is also on Bilenky and if they will be at NAHBS 2010 I may strip my wifes Legend down and have them cut it in two.
They will be there.

chakatrain

12-30-2009, 12:44 PM

...and I am quite happy with it. Nice people, great work, great paint job.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4229127562_57e1091473_b.jpg

jlwdm

12-30-2009, 01:02 PM

vjp

12-30-2009, 01:05 PM

They certainly seem to take pleasure in cutting frames apart. ;)

And long pants!!

vjp

jpw

12-30-2009, 01:15 PM

My money is also on Bilenky and if they will be at NAHBS 2010 I may strip my wifes Legend down and have them cut it in two.

I think Serotta would not sanction this and may void the lifetime warranty on the spot. The Legend is triple butted and the position of the butting 'steps' relative to the position of the cutting and welding required would be critical to structural integrity of the top and down tubes. Only a frame with straight gauge tubes would be suitable for retro fitting of the coupling nuts.

dumbod

12-30-2009, 01:43 PM

I had Bilenky retrofit a Seven Ti Axiom that I bought from this site in March (thanks Rick).

The process could not have been smoother and the bike rides great. We completed an End-to-End ride in September (1080 miles in 20 days) and I had no problems with the bike at all. Unpainted Ti is a great way to go for a coupled biked bike because you don't have to sweat the inevitable scratches. (And you can save a little money on the re-paint).

The guys at Bilenky are a little on the strange side but I mean that in the best of all possible ways. Stephen really knows his stuff. When I was talking with him (prior to buying the Seven), the biggest limitation that he mentioned was tube shape. (I was thinking about refitting a Litespeed Siena.) If you have oversized tubes, they have to taper them down to fit the coupler. Apparently, this is fine from a functional perspective but lacks a little in aesthetics. As Stephen put it, it looks a little like the inverse of a boa constrictor swallowing a pig.

I don't know enough about the ExtraLight to give you an informed opinion - give them a call. I'm sure that they can help you out.

Smiley

12-30-2009, 02:13 PM

I think Serotta would not sanction this and may void the lifetime warranty on the spot. The Legend is triple butted and the position of the butting 'steps' relative to the position of the cutting and welding required would be critical to structural integrity of the top and down tubes. Only a frame with straight gauge tubes would be suitable for retro fitting of the coupling nuts.

Those thoughts have not escaped me BUT if you go to their website you'll see that they have done an ovalized Serotta CC tubeset many times before.

jpw

12-30-2009, 02:16 PM

Those thoughts have not escaped me BUT if you go to their website you'll see that they have done an ovalized Serotta CC tubeset many times before.

Maybe, but my bike isn't going anywhere near the Bilenky boys and their sharp toys.

goonster

12-30-2009, 03:02 PM

I think Serotta would not sanction this and may void the lifetime warranty on the spot. The Legend is triple butted and the position of the butting 'steps' relative to the position of the cutting and welding required would be critical to structural integrity of the top and down tubes. Only a frame with straight gauge tubes would be suitable for retro fitting of the coupling nuts.
I can't speak for Serotta wrt the warranty, but here is a Legend coupled by Bilenky:

(link) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26208450@N02/4120786894/)

Ray

12-30-2009, 03:44 PM

I can't speak for Serotta wrt the warranty, but here is a Legend coupled by Bilenky:

(link) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/26208450@N02/4120786894/)
Interesting. The coupler on the top tube is up near the headtube rather than the more standard location back near the seat tube. I wonder if that's due to tube butting and shaping? CAN'T make it any easier to pack that rear triangle piece.

Another recommendation for Bilenky, btw. They did an old Riv for me many years ago - no drama.

-Ray

goonster

12-30-2009, 04:14 PM

Interesting. The coupler on the top tube is up near the headtube rather than the more standard location back near the seat tube. I wonder if that's due to tube butting and shaping? CAN'T make it any easier to pack that rear triangle piece.
See the comments on the Flickr page. It is due to the fact that the tube tapers from 1.25" to 1.125" at the seattube, and the smallest Ti coupler is 1.25".

Agreed that this is probably not the easiest frame to pack, but the key is that the couplers make the difference between packing and not packing into a legal case. Bilenky's expertise in this regard, i.e. knowing how to make existing tandems, recumbents, cargo bikes, reg'lar bikes, etc., packable is probably unparalleled, atmo. Stephen has a custom-fabbed template that he holds up against a bike to determine where the couplers can go.

tiretrax

12-30-2009, 04:57 PM

i travel a lot and want a bike to take with me. after a lot of reserach, i found having them modify an existing frame to be the best way to go. i spoke at length with them, and i would trust them without question due to the sheer number of bikes they have coupled. look at their website - the bikes look great afterwards (and can do custom repaint work, too).

they can do a legend and ovalized tubes, but nothing more extreme (diamond, helix, etc.).

it will void the warranty. however, since i'm having them modify a used frame, there was no warranty.

TMB

12-30-2009, 05:21 PM

Hi,

I'm thinking of having my Merlin Extralight retrofit for traveling. From what I've read the S&S couplers are very good and Bilenky Cycles seems to be one of the best and most experienced at this. Does anyone have an opinion?

Thanks.

The only caveat I would put on Bilenky is that I think it would depend ( at least for me ) on which coast you are closer to.

The East Coast I would go to Bilenky, The West Coast I would call Sam Whittingham at Naked Designs. Sam has done two S&S retro-fits for me and the results have been nothing short of spectacular.

Highest recommendations.

topher

12-30-2009, 08:28 PM

I am in the process of getting a Spectrum Merlin extralight. I considered couplers but decided against them. My understanding is that you can couple the Merlin Ti but not the extralight.

You should check on this.

Jeff

I am quite sure that this concern only applies to 2009 and newer Extra- lights. The new extralights have shaped tubing, similar to the Merlin CR Works/ TR works of the last few years (I have a CR, and love it), and may be hard/impossible to retrofit. The older Extralights had round tubes, and I've seen several retrofit.

Here's an example of one done by bilenky:
http://www.sandsmachine.com/a_bil_r44.htm

Hope that helps!

Chris

572cv

12-30-2009, 09:00 PM

Bilenky did a fabulous job on my Fierte ti with ovalized tubes. The location of the S&S couplers gets adjusted, no big deal. The bike rides beautifully and travels with panache. Here she is, overlooking the French countryside, with no additional travel charges....

jpw

12-31-2009, 04:21 AM

ahumblecycler

12-31-2009, 06:54 AM

572cv

12-31-2009, 06:58 AM

I had thought that the 'orthodox' position of the top tube nut was so that both halves of the frame were of a similar size so that they would both be able to fit inside the S&S square travel case. If the position of the nut moves too far forward on the top tube isn't the rear half of the frame becoming too big to fit inside such a case?

Bilenky figured this out before they did the job. It turns out that there is quite a bit of margin on this, depending of course on your frame size. Mine is about a 56. It came back to me in a S&S box, all packed. The top tube is ovalized where it hits the seat tube, so they moved the joint to a round section. The aesthetics might be different than the 'orthodox' location, but there is no functional difference, either for packing or riding.

jpw

12-31-2009, 06:59 AM

Hey goonster (and others) ...

I live around Kansas City so I am not closer to either coast. Any suggestions?

Also, would I be off buying an afford coupled frame (e.g., Gunnar) or buying a used and retrofitting?

Buy one, new or used, that was built with the nuts integral to the original design. I would rather buy a used one with nuts than a new frame to be chopped and retro fitted later.

ahumblecycler

12-31-2009, 07:54 AM

jpw - thanks for your comment and I had similar thoughts. Plus I have never had a Gunnar and I do want to try every manufacturer out there :rolleyes:

jpw

12-31-2009, 08:19 AM

jpw - thanks for your comment and I had similar thoughts. Plus I have never had a Gunnar and I do want to try every manufacturer out there :rolleyes:

Best of luck!

tiretrax

12-31-2009, 08:44 AM

go with a frame you like, then get it chopped. i tried a ritchey and found it too whippy. there are other premade bikes out there, but i decided to go with a retrofit of a frame i liked.

ahumblecycler

12-31-2009, 09:44 AM

Another interesting point. Similar to the OP, my travel has ramped up and I want to be able to extend the trips a few days each and enjoy some cycling. The bike will not replace my primary or even secondary bike. I cannot even estimate the mileage it will see. However, fit and enjoyment are my priorities. I am currently inquiring about a Co-Motion Expresso on craig's list with couplers installed. The bike build is good and so is the price. I do not have experience with Co-Motion ...

Satellite

12-31-2009, 11:41 AM

Bilenky did the retro fit of my Moots VaMoots. I have a VaMoots SL and I couldn't do a retro fit on it because of the double butted thin tube set. So I bought another VaMoots with straight gauge tubing. Bilenky did a fantastic job with fitment and alignment. However the weld was very much below the Moots standards, I could understand a bit lesser but they look like a two year old drawing with a crayon. I am NOT worried in the least bit with the bike falling in two while I ride because of the weld, maybe if the couplers come loose :rolleyes:.

My primary ride is the VaMoots SL, and the Standard VaMoots S&S Coupled stays in the box ready to go at a moment�s notice. If I had to do it all over I would only have one and it would be the Standard VaMoots. I can't tell a lick of difference between the two bikes built with almost the same build/components.

I agree with others, chop the bike you like to ride. It was the best investment I ever made; to ride my own bike that I paid lots of money for custom fit for me. I smile the whole time I am riding it in the most exotic place.

I also recommend buying the tube covers when you get the retro fit done. I was going to make my own because I have the same materials in bulk, but when it was all said and done the tube covers from Bilenky would have been more cost effective.

Bilenky also runs specials, if they are going to your local bike show they offer substantial discounts at the shows. Even if it is a bit of a drive you get to go to the bike show and get a discount, I think they may even bring the frame back with them and you can avoid a shipping charge.

Best regards,

Satellite