Bike skillz: What do you do?

[William]

Just out of curiosity, how many of you are comfortable jumping/bunny hopping your bike over potholes or other obstacles? I've found it to be an indispensable skill at avoiding junk, ruts, potholes, and occasionally RR tracks at speed. Especially when you don't see them immediately and don't have time to take a new line, cars are passing, or when you have other riders near by and a sudden swerve is likely to cause a crash.
One route we used to take out into the country brought us to a steep hill that leveled shortly, half way down for a set of RR tracks. It was a lot easier just to keep my speed and hop over the tracks then to brake hard, slowly ride over (thump, thump) and then get back up to speed. Also, when it's wet, I'd rather jump over the tracks when possible then ride over. I found out the hard way that rails, especially running at an angle can be worse then hitting a patch of ice when it's wet out. :crap:

It's a skill I picked up in my BMX days, but I have found to be very useful for protecting my bike, my body, and those around me a many times on the road.

Just curious,

William

Any other skills you find indispensable?

[Roy E. Munson]

Any other skills you find indispensable?

Yes. A well executed right hook to the jaw of the idiot who jumps potholes on group rides instead of pointing them out to the riders behind them.

[William]

Good one Roy, Yeah, I'd point them out. I was just refering to the skill.

By the way, I prefer a straight knee followed by a vertical down elbow.

William

[flydhest]

everyone is responsible for their own riding. If you intentionally ride up to a pot hole and then swerve, you're a jerk. If there is an obstruction that you see at the last moment, by all means avoid it.

My old coach would always say, "if there's something in the road that will cause you to crash, you should have seen it a 1/4 mile up the road. If you couldn't see it a 1/4 mile up the road, you should be able to ride right over it."

[Ozz]

The only skill I wish I had is to be able to "track stand" better...I'm good for about 2 seconds...then I either fall over or have to move...I hate red lights.

[mike p]

On our trainning rides in upstate NY when we see dead deer it's an all out sprint to and bunny hop over the poor bloated thing, same goes for woodchucks skunks and other varmints(just not worth as many points). Hopping up curbs to coffee shop, no hands track stands while reading news paper while waiting for everybody to get ready for ride. Our roadbike trainning rides often venture off road for miles on trails that are tough on mtr bike.

[davids]

There's a couple of expansion strips on my 'before-work' circuit that I bunny hop regularly. It's fun to loft a racing bike!

My favorite instance of this was during a friendly stoplight sprint down a road in the Blue Hills. As you near the intersection, there's a small stretch of cobblestones spanning the travel lane, intended as a warning of the approaching stoplight. Normal protocol is to scoot into the oncoming traffic lane and ride around it. On this particular morning, one of our group barrelled full-speed ahead towards it, and then neatly leapt the cobblestones. He won.

[flydhest]

The only skill I wish I had is to be able to "track stand" better...I'm good for about 2 seconds...then I either fall over or have to move...I hate red lights.

Ozz, you get there the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

I commute to work everyday and so mad a point of trying to track stand at each light. After a couple weeks, I got more and more confident and didn't need to be on an uphill, just needed the groove in the road from tire tracks. Then, even that wasn't necessary. I know trackstand through the entire light rotation. It's just a matter of sticking to it. Practice a lot on a bit of an incline, that will make it easier.

[dirtdigger88]

I can win coffee money by riding my bike backwards- you know sit on the handlebars and padal backwards- it kinda sucks with my Sidis on- it is much easier with sneakers- :D

Jason

[Too Tall]

Good to hear Willm'. My friends don't like me because I'm always trying to get them to do parking lot drills before the rides. Things like riding super slow circles between parking spaces, tight figure 8's, fast stops (butt behind the saddle), bumping. It is a hold over from mtn. bike days when we'd always include a 1/2 hr. of "rodeo" just to keep up skills. Too many people think that road bikes are for smooth roads only...nahhh put on a set of stout wheels and hit the dirt it is an awesome way to improve road skills. Right Bambi (wink wink)?

[Roy E. Munson]

My friends don't like me because I'm always trying to get them to do parking lot drills before the rides

I wouldn't like you either if you asked me to do that. I'd laugh really hard before I told you what I thought though. :D

[bostondrunk]

Running into little kiddies on walking paths is a great way to practice balance.

[Too Tall]

No problem Roy. I'd like you before you didn't like me so we'd be even ;) Huh? People pretty much ignore me.

[M_A_Martin]

I ride a mountain bike on technical trails (with varying success of course). The bike handling things I learn there transfer nicely to road riding. Playing "bump" with trees and rocks teaches you how to stay on the bike pretty well. Just remember, even though they don't laugh at you like your buddies do when they manage to knock you over, the trees always win. Riding trails with pizza cutter tracks in the summer helps you learn to hold your line regardless of what is under the tires...and how to deal with things when there isn't anything under your tires anymore.

I also ride my Kirk on the same trails, but I don't hop the log piles...I do a quasi-cyclocross thing instead. I used to make a point to ride my skinny tired bikes on a real trail at least once a year...with the Kirk I'm out there a bit more often (even when I have skinny tires on it...). :banana:

That dissertation is just to say that there isn't just one skill that I've learned that I use in my road riding...I use all of them while road riding...

...I've had someone ahead of me in a paceline bunny hop an obstacle without calling it instead of properly calling it and avoiding it...I rode right through it. I still think that person sucks. He should have called it.

[William]

My friends don't like me because I'm always trying to get them to do parking lot drills before the rides. Things like riding super slow circles between parking spaces, tight figure 8's, fast stops (butt behind the saddle), bumping. It is a hold over from mtn. bike days when we'd always include a 1/2 hr. of "rodeo" just to keep up skills.

Dat's cool. :cool: We used to do a lot of similar bike handling drills during our winter training camps. The rodeo/death bike was a personal fav. I've been known to do the same thing on my own waiting for a ride to gather.

William

[bcm119]

Also, when it's wet, I'd rather jump over the tracks when possible then ride over. I found out the hard way that rails, especially running at an angle can be worse then hitting a patch of ice when it's wet out. :crap:



I learned that lesson the hard way too, crossing the tracks in Albany last fall. You're on the ground before you have a chance to react.

[William]

I learned that lesson the hard way too, crossing the tracks in Albany last fall. You're on the ground before you have a chance to react.

That's exactly where I learned that lesson. Tracks running at an angle. I was coming back through Albany after a particularly heinous ride, numerous flats, raining like a mother, and then BAM, on the ground with tacoed wheels, big chunk out of my knee, and nasty road rash down the side of my calf.

I wonder if it's the same ones?

William

[bcm119]

I'll bet they are the same tracks. I was headed north out of Albany towards the paper factory. I think they are the most angled crossing in the area. I was lucky enough to escape with just a bruised hip, and my bike was fine. But I was riding with a club, surrounded by some old guys I didn't know, so it was very embarassing!

[William]

Yup, same ones. Sorry to hear you went down, but glad you were able to get back up and go. Those kinds of things suck, especially when your riding with folks you don't know.
I had peeled of my group and was heading in on my own. It happens so fast, one second flying along, then your on the ground wondering what the heck happened. Getting home to Corvallis is an interesting story, I'm just glad I was riding spd's then. I wonder how many cyclists those tracks have claimed? :bike:

William

[Ti Designs]

In September, when the new students show up and the team for next season forms, we (the coaches) run skills weeks to teach them all kinds of skills they'll need for the racing to come. It's a great time because there's no pressure to train hard (it's September or October...) so the emphasis is really on learning the skill of the week, while not forgetting the skill from last week. My favorite week is contact week where we teach people how to make contact with the riders around them and stay on the bike. Two years ago we had three crashes on the road which resulted in broken bones. This year I wasn't about to let that happen again, so I made sure people were out there for contact week. We had 30 people out on the grass playing bumper bikes and practicing wheel touching. When it comes to contact there are different levels of riders. There's always one screamer of the group - you can tell when someone bumps them from 100 yards away. Then there are the sprinters, the guys who practice moving another rider off a wheel. The ex-messengers seem to have the edge on these drills. They've spent way too much time brushing up against 5000 pound SUVs to be the least bit initmidated by a 160 pound rider on a fixed gear.

Cornering week is another skill that many people need badly but never seem to work on by themselves. The fastest way through a corner isn't something most people understand, and it always shows at the start of cornering week. I draw on my autocross experiance in explaining where the apex of the turn needs to be and how the rider needs to get back on the power as quickly as possible. That's often the difference between staying at the front of a crit and getting launced off the back.

And then there's sprinting week. There's two parts to teaching people how to sprint: The first part is all about closed loop drills - leg speed drills from one phone pole to the next in a small gear and just driving out the RPMs and power work in a big gear getting 6-8 pedal strokes with maximum torque. The second part is an open loop drill with a sprint line looming in the distance and 8-10 riders going for it. They need to put the whole thing together, tactics, power and finishing speed all play a part in who wins the sprint. This is the fun part, as I'm not in it for the win, I get to mess with their tactics. Sometimes I get one of the women's A team riders on my wheel from the back and go ripping past the front - this pisses off the guys. Sometimes I move to the front way too early and bring up the pace way too high, then pull off the front and watch riders make the mistake of thinking they can hold the speed to the line. By the end of the week they've learned a lot about the skills and tactics of sprinting.

There's no down side to learning a skill on the bike. You don't have to give something else up to learn it, skills don't add weight and they don't effect your heart rate. They do keep you upright when things get sketchy, allow you to hold more speed in corners and help you beat your friends at town lines. Sounds worth a little time and effort to me!

[Roy E. Munson]

I guess this is all well and good for teaching newbie riders or beginners, but I'm not 100% convinced an experienced rider will benefit from this. Most crashes occur when the pace is so high that nothing in the world is going to save you. You're down before you even realize what happens.

[Too Tall]

TiDesign, I'd love to be in your camp. Last yr. at my coaches camp we had both types practices you described and it was great learning. It is mighty tough to teach a bunch of category riders to get a sprinter to the line. For some odd reason I was always the guy in front of the sprinter...go figure.

[flydhest]

I guess this is all well and good for teaching newbie riders or beginners, but I'm not 100% convinced an experienced rider will benefit from this. Most crashes occur when the pace is so high that nothing in the world is going to save you. You're down before you even realize what happens.

I completely disagree. This is as good advice and training for an experienced rider as anyone else. In large part, because people usually get to decide for themselves if they think they are "experienced" and more often than not, people have an over-inflated sense of their own abilities. Understanding how these things works helps you see who in the pack knows the drill and who doesn't. Which wheel you want to be on, which rider you could be next to, and who you just really need to be in front of. A crash behind you won't take you down.

Even so, good skills can help, even in panic situation. I watched my old coach ride over a downed bike and miss the rider. Somethings you can't avoid, but that set of event gets smaller the better rider you are. I try to assume that anytime I go down it's basically my responsibility. Saying that things happen before you realize what happened is a way to let yourself off the hook. This is one of the reasons I like to ride fixed gears without brakes. You have to focus on what is happening, what is going to happen, and what might happen.

[William]

It's like anything you want to get good, and stay good at. You practice your skills. Doesn't matter if your racing bikes or fighting in the ring. Working and honing the basics, and keeping them razor sharp gives you a better foundation for working advanced skills. An advanced rider getting out there and working basic bike handling isn't going to hurt them at all, and frankly it would be beneficial to practice with a bunch of newbies who are unpredictable.

Most crashes occur when the pace is so high that nothing in the world is going to save you. You're down before you even realize what happens.

True, but most crashes that don't occur, don't happen due to good bike handling skills. You've been in pack sprints Roy. How many times have you bumped elbows, leaned on someone (or had them lean into you), seen people ride others off a rear wheel, or shoot through holes? Happens all the time, and most of the time there aren't crashes because of good bike handleing skills. I think it's always good to work basics into your training no matter what level you're at. That's just my opinion.

William

[Roy E. Munson]

A fixed gear in a race might not be too good an idea, so I think I'll pass on that.

I try to assume that anytime I go down it's basically my responsibility. Saying that things happen before you realize what happened is a way to let yourself off the hook.

Explain the last part of that to me, please?

[flydhest]

Take responsibility for what happens to you. There's loads of 'blame' or 'fault' to be assigned, but if I'm riding home through traffic or in a race, if something happens and I go down, I'm the one in pain. I don't care if it's because an idiot box jockey pulled out of an alley without looking or if a Cat 5 can't hold a line and swerved in front of me and took out my wheel. From the get-go, I know these are distinct possibilities.

If a mule kicks you once, it's the mule's fault.

Anybody who's ridden for more than just a bit has likely been kicked by at least one mule. From now on, it's my fault.

[bostondrunk]

I prefer to blame it on the rain...............no wait, that was milli vanilli.................

[Ti Designs]

This is as good advice and training for an experienced rider as anyone else. In large part, because people usually get to decide for themselves if they think they are "experienced" and more often than not, people have an over-inflated sense of their own abilities.

Yup. Years ago I got into an argument with a club which thought they were better than average riders and didn't need to learn a thing. This was also a group that thought that pacelines are dangerous... I go by the theory that I always have something to learn - and I'm the coach!

Understanding how these things works helps you see who in the pack knows the drill and who doesn't. Which wheel you want to be on, which rider you could be next to, and who you just really need to be in front of.

Hmmm, guess we should have a skills week called "knowing where to be week". It's certainly true, knowing where to be or where not to be is half the battle. I was working with one of my riders a few years back, closing in on a well known town line. I asked her which wheel she needed to be on going for the sprint. She looked at the guys up front, knowing turn and the downhill sprint and rocketed past them to get clear and take the sprint. When she filtered back into the pack she said to me "none of the above", which clearly was the right answer. She's a cat 1 now...



This is one of the reasons I like to ride fixed gears without brakes. You have to focus on what is happening, what is going to happen, and what might happen.

One of the things that might happen is an ambulence ride. I ride fixed gear about as much as anyone, and while I don't use the front brake very often, it's still there if I need it. I win about $100 a year from messengers who claim they can stop just as fast without it. Weight shift is forward, if I remember my physics, normalized force has something to do with friction...

[Roy E. Munson]

So when I watch Levi Leipheimer break his a$$ in the tour last year, I can assume it was because he didn't practice his drills?

If after a few years, you can't handle a bike, you never will be able to handle a bike. And why is everyone referring to the Cat 5's like they're village idiots? They may be inexperienced, but they ain't useless! A Cat 4 is nothing more than a Cat 5 who raced more than 10 times.

Take responsibility for what happens to you. There's loads of 'blame' or 'fault' to be assigned, but if I'm riding home through traffic or in a race, if something happens and I go down, I'm the one in pain. I don't care if it's because an idiot box jockey pulled out of an alley without looking or if a Cat 5 can't hold a line and swerved in front of me and took out my wheel. From the get-go, I know these are distinct possibilities.

What does who's "fault" it is have to do with any of this? When someone goes down in front of you at full tilt, you're fooked.

FlyD - I'm not just trying to stir the pot here, but I really don't understand your arguements.

[flydhest]

One of the things that might happen is an ambulence ride. I ride fixed gear about as much as anyone, and while I don't use the front brake very often, it's still there if I need it. I win about $100 a year from messengers who claim they can stop just as fast without it. Weight shift is forward, if I remember my physics, normalized force has something to do with friction...

uh-oh, silly diatribe coming on. Before I get there, I'll say I agree with you in general, but . . .

I'd win those $100 along with you. I'd never make that claim or that bet. While I can stop faster with a brake than without, I can also stop faster if I ride slower. Heck, I could stop faster if I used brakes and only rode at 4 mph. The fact that I can't stop on a dime is at the forefront of my consciousness. I don't ride the same way without brakes that I do with brakes.

Now, I have seen people take an ambulance ride from riding a bike with brakes. Seen ambulance rides from people in cars. Life is dangerous. I only think it's dumb not to know what you're getting yourself into.

[Ti Designs]

If after a few years, you can't handle a bike, you never will be able to handle a bike.

Or it's something you never figured out on your own. I took over coaching a girl who is the best climber around but got dropped in crits because she couldn't corner to save her life. Her previous coach was a former national champion who didn't understand the need to break down the skill and explain it, he never had to do that himself. She's learned how to corner after just four years of racing.

[Roy E. Munson]

Ti Designs,

Did you get dropped at the Tuft's race last year or crash?

[flydhest]

So when I watch Levi Leipheimer break his a$$ in the tour last year, I can assume it was because he didn't practice his drills?

If after a few years, you can't handle a bike, you never will be able to handle a bike. And why is everyone referring to the Cat 5's like they're village idiots? They may be inexperienced, but they ain't useless! A Cat 4 is nothing more than a Cat 5 who raced more than 10 times.



What does who's "fault" it is have to do with any of this? When someone goes down in front of you at full tilt, you're fooked.

FlyD - I'm not just trying to stir the pot here, but I really don't understand your arguements.

clearly.

It is not always the case that when someone goes down in front of you at full tilt that it's over. Often, sure, but not always. Plus, I don't want you to condition on the event that someone has gone down in front of you. When Leipheimer went down and broke himself, there were plenty, plenty people who weren't hurt. Some of it was luck, some of it was positioning. There was a lot of to-do about the Postal trying to make sure they were surrounding Lance to keep him out of such problems.

So, yeah, when Leipheimer went down, it's because he was in the wrong place. His team didn't get him in the right position.

Now, of course one can't control everything that happens. I was pointing out that by acting as if you can, a lot less "bad luck" comes your way.

Your comment about not being able to handle a bike if you can't in a few years is simply wrong. I've seen lots of people get better through time. Lots of people who never thought about it systematically.

[Roy E. Munson]

OK, we'll agree to disagree. This is going nowhere.

[flydhest]

OK, we'll agree to disagree. This is going nowhere.

Now, I'm curious. Where was I wrong with my Leipheimer thought?

[Roy E. Munson]

I think Levi had no chance to avoid that crash, despite all the bumping drills Rabobank did in the parking lot before tha race.

[bostondrunk]

I think Levi had no chance to avoid that crash, despite all the bumping drills Rabobank did in the parking lot before tha race.

lol. I thought they were just drunk...

[Too Tall]

First you need to want to improve. Last yr. when my coach held a cornering clinic he muttered "I don't know what I can teach you...dood you've been racing for so long". But the simple fact was I've been racing long distance for a long time and not doing much crit. racing...my crit corners sucked. After an hr. of him beating on me to push the inside bars down I "re-learned" what I forgot. Everyone can improve if they want. Ego's not withstanding.

Drunk. It's Cain...d**D blame it on Cain....ain't nobody's fault but we need somebody to burn.

[Tom]

The point is that there are a heck of a lot more people that have the fitness to ride their bike fast in a group but have no idea what to do when it goes weird. These are the people that need to learn what to do so they don't crap out in front of the local Levi.

I'd like to hook up with a group I could trust that's going to do this kind of work because I've had stuff happen before and it's been dumb luck that kept me upright. I remember one time in a group ride where there was a steep downhill before a T intersection and it was raining. The organizers said to watch it but a couple of people in front of me zoomed over the hill, panicked and slammed on their brakes. I don't know how many people fell over but I found myself riding between sliding people and pinwheeling bikes. I managed to miss everybody and I am not totally sure how. I remember the look on one guy's face as he slid on his butt facing back the way he came seeing about thirty people coming over the brow of the hill. It was priceless.

Of course, being too dumb to have the extra brain power for panic helps. I've been leaned on and my wheel hit before and I don't seem to register what happened until afterward.

That being said, I wouldn't mind knowing how to carve the turn so I don't enrage the rest of the group and I'd love to be able to figure out a sprint. I also wouldn't mind knowing a little more about pacelining at speed. The pacelining part, especially, would make a few rides less nervewracking.

[Ti Designs]

Did you get dropped at the Tuft's race (Cat 5) last year or crash?

Are those my only options? I have no sense of direction, I could have gotten lost...

[Roy E. Munson]

Given that one of them is what actually happened, yes, these are your only options. :D

[Kevan]

you have to be able to bunny hop a yellow cab.

That's why I don't ride the city.

[Roy E. Munson]

:bike:

[BURCH]

Yup, same ones. Sorry to hear you went down, but glad you were able to get back up and go. Those kinds of things suck, especially when your riding with folks you don't know.
I had peeled of my group and was heading in on my own. It happens so fast, one second flying along, then your on the ground wondering what the heck happened. Getting home to Corvallis is an interesting story, I'm just glad I was riding spd's then. I wonder how many cyclists those tracks have claimed? :bike:

William


I have about 6 stitches just under my right eye when the dreaded "tracks" got me. I went from about 20mph to my face in about a second. I didn't know what happened until I woke up. I was riding solo, but luckily I had my helmet on and was close to the end of the ride and home.

I had to bike the last 2 miles looking a horror movie victim. everywhere. I will never forget the look of these people as I passed their house while they were sitting on their porch staring at me as I rode by.

If anything, I can blame in on youth. I was 19 and just getting into road riding seriously at the time. Since then, I almost come to a halt for RR tracks (especially wet ones).