How should a runner train for biking?

[CIII_bill]

My new brother-in-law (yes I got married Jan, 8) is a runner who wants to start biking and ride RAGBRAI this July. He runs marathons and half marathons, so he's in good shape for running. But he wants a new challenge and started riding this winter. He's 58.

He has good aerobic conditioning (at least for running) but has never trained with a HR monitor. So he's never done much structured training. He has sunsequently purchased a HR monitor

We have ridden 25-30 mile rides already so he is developing endurance. But he doesn't have much leg strength ( I wouldn't expect him too yet).

So I'm working with him to get in shape for the RAGBRAI. And I think I may able to talk him into riding a century this summer. RAGBRAI will be 7 days of 70 mi. days. I need some thoughts on how to proceed. So far, he's riding his trainer 40 min. or so 3 times a week with a longer ride on the weekend. On the trainer I've got him riding with a HR in the 120's, with 1 min. intervals every 3 min. pushing to a HR in the 140's. He has also started some one legged pedaling to develop leg strength and a smooth pedaling stroke. Off the bike he's not doing any weight work, but is doing lunges.

So is this a good program to start with? He just started training/ riding the first of the year. How should he proceed in the coming months?

Thanks for your thoughts.

CIII_Bill

[Climb01742]

as a runner who years ago made the same transition, my suggestions are based on personal experience, not on anything scientific. running and cycling use very different muscles. the biggest difference is running uses a lot of hamstring. cycling a lot of quad. the biggest challenge, i think, is adapting to cycling without getting injured. running developes a narrow range of muscles to a very high degree. adapting a whole new set of under-developed muscled quickly is risky. injury is likely. i'd ask one question: is your brother-in-law looking at cycling as a short-term thing or long-term? if its long-term, i'd say just ride this year. gradually adapt the muscles, and add mileage. imagine the reverse. a long-time cyclist decides to run a marathon. would we have him doing 50 mile weeks so soon? i'd say the biggest risk is trying to adapt too fast, getting injured and not being able to ride the events at all. having a runner's heart and lungs is one thing. having a cyclist's musculature is very different. others here can opine more intelligently on specific workouts. but my two cents would be, arrive a little under-trained and healthy, rather than go all out too soon. adapting the body to a new sport, particularly coming out of running -- which is the very definition of muscle imbalance -- is tough. slow and steady is my suggestion. good luck.

[William]

running and cycling use very different muscles. the biggest difference is running uses a lot of hamstring. cycling a lot of quad. the biggest challenge, i think, is adapting to cycling without getting injured. running developes a narrow range of muscles to a very high degree. adapting a whole new set of under-developed muscled quickly is risky.

...adapting the body to a new sport, particularly coming out of running -- which is the very definition of muscle imbalance -- is tough. slow and steady is my suggestion.

Listen to Climb.

I used to run a lot as a component of my Crew training. We were also doing a lot of weight and endurance work so the transition to the bike was not difficult for me. I gave up running after I really got into cycling because, as Climb stated, it focuses on different muscles and I found that I felt like I was duck walking when I ran. Very uncomfortable to me. I stuck to riding, rowing the erg (distance and interval training), and footwork drills for my aerobic training after that.

William

[Too Tall]

Yes. You've put together a good program I like :) Keep everything low force high cadence and he'll be fine. Get him started now on good on the bike hydration / eating habits.

[flydhest]

My thoughts, as an ex-runner.

You may be worrying waaaaay too much. He needs to be aware, to be sure, that there are risks and he should listen to his body. As an marathoner, hopefully he is used to doing this. I stopped running my last year of college due to an injury. I have since done almost no running. Two years ago, after not running a mile in years, I did the second half of the Marine Corps marathon with a friend who wanted moral support on her first marathon. I had been cycling a lot, so I knew I had the fitness. We knocked out 8:30 miles or so. I was sore for three days, don't get me wrong, but I never doubted I could do it.

Focussing on his strengths--cardio--is good. Keeping a relatively high cadence will rely on this and allow him to recover overnight while you're doing RAGBRAI. I think for now, you just want him to start upping his mileage while paying close attention to how he's doing.

Strength really only matters if you want to go fast.

[csb]

hello my name is csb and i'm an xrunner.
i would ride with racer buds and do ok with
the lung power but when it came to the right
mix of quad/butt power...nothing.

the one bit of riding i could hang (read keep them in sight)
with was standing on a steep climb, oh and go
a little down hill.

i found i had to ride, NOT run, to be a better rider. for
years my chiro begged me, "stop the running thing".
my back would ACHE on and after rides, but as soon
as i STOPPED running i would ride pain free, oh and it
may have something to do with a TK designed spectrum.

[Todd Owen]

Bill ....good to hear from you again.. still waiting for that ride we talked about at the Lemondfest. your training advice seems sound but I would also do a bit of slight hill work as I find that these are the muscles that don't seem to be there from running for cycling. also stress spinning so your BIL doesn't strain anything grinding in the large gears.

[flydhest]

hello my name is csb and i'm an xrunner.
hello, csb.



i found i had to ride, NOT run, to be a better rider.

truer words were never spoken . . . except maybe, "yes, dear, I enjoyed it, too."

[JStonebarger]

Make sure he doesn't wear underwear under his bike shorts.

Seriously, for an athlete accustomed to marathons RAGBRAI is no great challenge. I'm not complaining -- I'll be there -- but RAGBRAI is full of non-cyclists just out riding around.

In fact, RAGBRAI might be a start, getting him hooked on cycling and interested in more serious challenges on the bike. That's how I started: I rode RAGBRAI for the first time eight years ago; I've been racing for the last five.

The best advice I ever heard for training for RAGBRAI came from my "father-in-law:"

"Buy a six-pack of beer and go sit on a fence post."

Have fun!

[Marron]

Didn't Mike Engleman start out as a competive runner who switched over to cycling as a climbing specialist? I've gone back and forth a couple of times in my life running track in school, taking up bike racing, going back to marathoning and then back to cycling. All the advice here as been sound. The most important thing in my experience is just having patience. Your brother-in-law will be much better off than a complete novice to aerobic exercise and make faster progress, but he'll still have to give his muscles time to adopt and strengthen. BTW, I'm sure all the triatheletes are chuckling at the discussion.

[PhilG]

Joe Friel's book Cycling Past 50 has a chapter on training for multi-day tours. The program you've got your b-i-l on looks good to me. The main thing for me when I switched from running to biking was learning cadence. A computer with a cadence counter might be a nice gift for the new member of your family.

[Ken Lehner]

We have ridden 25-30 mile rides already so he is developing endurance. But he doesn't have much leg strength ( I wouldn't expect him too yet).

So I'm working with him to get in shape for the RAGBRAI. And I think I may able to talk him into riding a century this summer. RAGBRAI will be 7 days of 70 mi. days. I need some thoughts on how to proceed. So far, he's riding his trainer 40 min. or so 3 times a week with a longer ride on the weekend. On the trainer I've got him riding with a HR in the 120's, with 1 min. intervals every 3 min. pushing to a HR in the 140's. He has also started some one legged pedaling to develop leg strength and a smooth pedaling stroke. Off the bike he's not doing any weight work, but is doing lunges.


Your brother-in-law already has all the leg strength he needs; he's probably as strong or stronger than Lance Armstrong. He, like everyone on this forum, just can't hold that power for very long compared to Armstrong. He needs to develop the aerobic capacity to maintain power for extended periods of time. 1 minute intervals with 3 minutes rest won't do it: they are predominantly anaerobic. He should be doing longer (10-30 minute) stretches at about 90% of his threshold heart rate (if he even knows what that is) to develop his aerobic capacity.

He needs to increase his mitochondrial density in the cycling-specific muscles, and he will get that most efficiently from cycling at near-threshold levels for 30-60 minutes per session (broken up into no less than 10-15 minute intervals).

As a triathlete, I know that the last time I took time off from biking and started again, I was not able to maintain the cadence I used to have(~100rpm for a 40K). I'd suggest having him work on high cadence.

[CIII_bill]

Thanks everybody for your thoughts. We'll keep working at it.

[CIII_bill]

Hey Todd,

How are you doing? Yeah, you haven't heard from me lately. Didn't ride much during the fall and winter. Getting my wife's house ready for sale, moving her into my place and planning the wedding, etc. took a lot of my normal bike riding and forum time away.

But it has been refreshing to come back to the forum AND get back on the bike. I felt my legs atrophying this winter. Yikes! But they are coming back pretty quickly.

I would still like to do the ride we talked about. Maybe this year.