Most Durable Carbon Bars

[Tmogul]

Hello All,
Was thinking about upgrading to some carbon bars but wondering if they are durable enough for sprinter type. I'm thinking about the Kestral EMS pro or the Cinelli Neo carbo bar. The FSA K wings hit my forearms in the drops. Any other suggestions and experiences?

[Tony Edwards]

I've been using an EMS Pro for about a year and a half, and have been favorably impressed with it. It had the most organic (i.e., rounded) drop of any carbon bar available at the time, and was very fairly priced. What sealed the deal for me was that it was the only carbon bar whose warranty was not voided by using aerobars. Although I have no interest in aerobars per se, it seemed to me this bespoke a pretty robust bar, and that has been the case. It's nice and stiff, and hasn't done anything untoward to this point. I have not crashed with it yet, however.

[Bruce K]

I have really liked my Modolo Curvissimas.

They are a little pricey but VERY comfortable.

BK

[saab2000]

I am not sure that a carbon bar would be considered an upgrade. They are not much lighter than aluminum and at least I can tell no difference in vibration damping.

I have a set of Modolo Curvissima carbon bars which have not lived up to my expectation, though I do not blame the bar. For me the drop and reach are not enough, though I knew this when I bought them.

My next bars will be aluminum at the same weight as carbon and a fraction of the price. I will get ITM Millenium next. That is an ergo shape which is acceptable.

The Kestrels and latest Zipp bars look the best of the current crop to me.

But IMHO carbon bars in general are far too expensive for any supposed benefit they have brought me.

[David Kirk]

I think the best carbon bars are made of aluminum.

Dave

[Tom]

I agree with Sandy.

[Bruce K]

Actually, with the new "bar gel" padding I am not sure I would buy any more carbon bars either.

That stuff makes the bars feel pretty comfy - at least in the shop.

I wonder if anyone has any road time in with this stuff.

It seems like a much less expensive alternative for vibration damping.

BK

[RichMc]

I've got the bar gel pads on a Specialized Allez Comp that I'm riding. Really fattens up the bar and either you like that or you don't. I have hands that are on the big side so it's OK for me. Yes, it dampens the road buzz but it doesn't eliminate it. The pads came with the bike but I don't know that I would go out and purchase them separately unless I had very bothersome issues with the buzz. OTOH, you can get the close to the same feel & dampening just by wrapping two strips of tape instead of one. Less expensive too.

[Tmogul]

That's actually a really good idea. I too am leary of carbon bars but I thought they offered some more dampening. I guess I'm hearing that is not the case. How "squishy" if you will is the "bar gel"? I have big hands too and like the larger diameter however wondering if feel is lost if the tape is too soft. Do you know if they make a bar tape made out of synthetic leather? I can't remember if it was cinelli's site or ITM they had a VIP model with leather bar covers or something. The cinelli cork stuff wears away too fast. Has anyone tried the millenium grip stuff? Thanks again

[theprep]

Go to a Specialized bike shop. Specialized makes a product called Phat Wrap. It consist of 4 gel pieces that fit on the handlebar, 2 for the drops and 2 for the tops. The kit also includes some extra long cork tape to make it around all the new padding.

It comes in either 2.5mm or 4.5 mm thickness for $30. I used it for a while, but then found I preferred just regular Cinelli Gel Tape.

[slowgoing]

I like the feeling of double wrapped bars.

[davep]

A couple of months ago I bought an Easton Equuipe carbon bar. A couple weeks ago I was stopped on a ride and getting something out of my bag. A moments inattention - the bike fell over.No damage to the bike, the bar tape was nicked but enough to worry about changing, but the handlebar was cracked. Nice big crack halfway through. The good thing is that it didn't break off and had only a little more flex than than non-cracked side. I'll stick with aluminum from now on.

[zap]

Wow, thats a surprise. Did the crack occur where the seam is? What does Easton say?

I have a 16 year old carbon bar thats taken a few hits (bike fell over once or twice too) but it's still as solid as ever. Just a few cosmetic scuff marks on the surface.

[Tony Edwards]

Wow, thats a surprise. Did the crack occur where the seam is? What does Easton say?

I have a 16 year old carbon bar thats taken a few hits (bike fell over once or twice too) but it's still as solid as ever. Just a few cosmetic scuff marks on the surface.

What carbon bars were made 16 years ago? :eek:

[davep]

I've been busy at work and haven't had a chance to contact Easton. The crack occured horizontally at the lower bend. Unfortunately, I bought the bars on eBay (new) so don't have an LBS to return them to. I understood when I bought them that they were ultralight and so not as durable as heavier bars, but I didn't think they would be that fragile.They are OK to use aeobars on, so I also figured they would be strong enough. Even before they cracked, I was disappointed at how flexible they were.

[zap]

Aerosports, carbon bull horn with internal cable routing. They also made a carbon seatpost with AC style clamp and disc wheels. They may have dabbled in carbon spoked wheels too.

I wonder what happened to this small CA company. Anyone.

[spin2ter]

I've owned Easton's EC-90 and ITM's carbon offerings and have been unlucky with both. I wanted the stiffness and damping qualities that carbon is known for, but discovered that the most durable carbon bars are the ones you don't crash on or over-torque. I've now gone back to my oversized aluminum Deda Newtons.

[dirtdigger88]

A couple of months ago I bought an Easton Equuipe carbon bar. A couple weeks ago I was stopped on a ride and getting something out of my bag. A moments inattention - the bike fell over.No damage to the bike, the bar tape was nicked but enough to worry about changing, but the handlebar was cracked. Nice big crack halfway through. The good thing is that it didn't break off and had only a little more flex than than non-cracked side. I'll stick with aluminum from now on.

hey dave- I am wondering- could the bars have had a flaw (crack?) from the beginning? Most that I have spoken too seem very high on the eastons- for reliability and for lack of flex- just a thought- could the bars have been damaged (even if very slightly) from the time of purchase?

Jason

[cpg]

I think the best carbon bars are made of aluminum.

Dave

I'd like to add, the best carbon rims are made of aluminum too. Whenever I think of carbon used in either application, rims and/or bars, I start channeling the robot from Lost in Space. My arms start flailing about and I keep shouting "Danger Will Robinson. Danger!"

Curt

[Climb01742]

yesterday i saw that deda newtons, non-oversized, weigh 205 grams. suddenly, all my carbon bars seem, well, over-priced. i like the curvissimo and waiting to install a pair of easton 90s, but when i saw how little newtons actually weigh, well, :crap: :crap: :crap:

[David Kirk]

If you use both carbon bars and a carbon stem they work well together.......the bars will break before there is enough force to have the stem snap.

"there's no such thing as a bad material only a bad application".

Dave

[dirtdigger88]

I bit the bullet today and ordered a pair of Easton's Equipe Pro's- They seem to fit my need- I need 31.8 to work with the new Thomson stem- I want to try non- anotomic bars- and I like the shorter reach and drop as compared to my ITM's- I like where by bars are when on the tops but I feel like I am reaching a bit too much when in the drops or on the hoods- The eastons have about 1cm shorter reach and about 2cm less drop than my ITM's- lets see what happens- it is only money dont you know

Jason

[Climb01742]

If you use both carbon bars and a carbon stem they work well together.......the bars will break before there is enough force to have the stem snap

Dave

but for most riders -- of normal size and strength -- is breaking a carbon bar really that much of a possibility?

[flydhest]

but for most riders -- of normal size and strength -- is breaking a carbon bar really that much of a possibility?

Hey pal!!! Who you calling abnormal???

:D

[JohnS]

Carbon bars soak up way more vibration than aluminum bars, but you'd only notice it if your physical condition makes it more noticable. Before my accident and shoulder surgery, al bars were fine. After, with the arthritis, I would dread every bump in the road. Since I got the cf bars, it's no problem.

[David Kirk]

Frankly I think it is........and even if it isn't is it worth the risk? I've had a stem break and it's not pretty. Can you say dental surgery?

The issue is that you are taking some cloth that is soaked in epoxy and clamping it by both the stem and the brake levers. Depending on how well the stem is designed (most removeable face stems crush the bar into submission rather than wrap it) and how well the mechanic can use a torque wrench the bar may or may not fail.

Remember that most of the pros that broke bars during the tour last year aren't big guys. They may be stronger than you or I but they most likely also have better technique. I'd venture a guess that many "average" guys who ride for the fun of it put more stress on the equipment than many pros do because of their size, weight and technique. There aren't too many 180 - 200 pound road pros out there.

I feel that there are plenty of places to save weight on the bike but any realistic risk of failure of the bars, stem, or fork is a bad thing. I'll be a bit dramatic..........you can die playing that game....you really can.

Dave

We haven't even gotten into how a "scratch" on the parts make them pop at the dotted line.........

[Tmogul]

How do you like the X2's? I personally like the look of the X4's coming from a mtn bike back ground but I'll definitely stick to thomson for a stem. I have their orignals on my cannondale. But yes bars are very specific tools of the trade. I'm actually looking for shorter flatter reach and deeper drop bars so one can be comfortable on the hoods but have great leverage for sprints.

As for carbon vs. aluminum Hasselbacher did break his ritchey's last year but then he's always causing problems. Also it funny how I trust easton carbon mtn bars but not the road stuff. Hmmmm.

[dirtdigger88]

Thomson is shipping my X2 on Monday- I will let you know when it is in

Jason

[Jack Brunk]

Dirt,

Has thomson fixed their stem problem with carbon forks? My LBS doesn't like to use the stems because of issues with the carbon steerer tube on different brand forks. Maybe you might want to check with Thomson if there is any issues with the new stem. I believe the issue has to due with moisture or human sweat making its way between the stem and steerer tube. I watched the shop mechanic cut off a thomsom stem because there was no other way to get it off.

Jack

[dirtdigger88]

Jack-

There really never was a problem with the stems and carbon forks- Reynolds originally said not to use stems that use a pinch type clamp (like Thomson) on carbon steerer but I actually emailed Reynolds at the time that I bought my Legend. They replied that they had no issue with Thomson stems- only with other stem of a simular design with lower quality- long story short- I have an email from Reynolds saying I am ok with a Thomson stem and carbon steerer-

Now jump forward to the new X2's it is now a not issue because they do not clamp with a pinch bolt like the old ones did- That is the entire reason Thomson did the redesign- in addition to the fact that most carbon bars do not allow 4 bolt stems only 2 bolt-

Jason

[Too Tall]

I use Kestrel EMS Pro on the tandem and dig the fairly traditional bend. Very strong bar, great price well made what not to love? Also using the Zipp B2 bar which I am really liking alot. The tops are a bit flat and that feels nice when you are cruising on the tops. No issues with hitting the bars in sprints.

My other fav. modern bar is the Salsa Pro. aluminum. Niiiiice.

[erty65]

What about:
http://www.schmolke-carbon-titan.de/carbon/carbon_uk/index_c_uk.html

[Sandy]

I have ridden with someone with a custom carbon Calfee Tetra Pro and mostly all carbon parts, where possible, including EMS handlebar. At an intersection after a stop, he slowly turned right and tried to click into his pedals. He was in a large gear and lost his balance and the bike fell down hitting his handlebar. He is a light rider, around 150 pounds at best.

He simply snapped the handlebar. I looked at the bar and it looked really strange to me, as if someone or something had simply grabbed the bar, twisted it, and presto, it had a large break in it. I only use aluminum handlebars and after witnessing the accident, at very low speed, even on inpact, and after looking at the handlebar, I resolved to never use an aluminum bar or stem, under any condition. Obviously, it was only one occurrence, but it was enough for me.

Why take a chance? None of us really have to have the lightest anyway.

I agree with Dave Kirk on this one wholeheartedly. I also agree with Tom, because he agreed with me.

Safety Sandy

[dirtdigger88]

I will admit that I am nervous about the carbon bars- I have searched- though- I honestly the eastons are the only ones I have found that have the reach (mid 70) and the drop with a 31.8 clamp that I need- any other ideas from the peanut gallery?

jason

[e-RICHIE]

i'm with dave kirk-issimo...

and i agree with the coach:

[Big Dan]

That seals the deal for me, I'm with David, Curt, Richie and Sandy..(making Sandy happy) why risk using a carbon bar or stem? Unless you are like 125 pounds get something solid to grab. Personally I broke an aluminum ITM stem and didn't really notice until I got home. Yes the bars were loose, but didn't come off.... :eek:

What's the savings? 100 grams?..
Vibrations? never had that problem, don't even use gloves...like to feel the ride.... :bike:

[e-RICHIE]

Big Dan-issimo asked:
"What's the savings? 100 grams?.."


not a chance.
typical aluminimumium bars are already
in the 200 gram range. no way cf is half
that. but if you wanna save 21 grams, i
can help you.

[erty65]

Big Dan-issimo asked:
"What's the savings? 100 grams?.."


not a chance.
typical aluminimumium bars are already
in the 200 gram range. no way cf is half
that. but if you wanna save 21 grams, i
can help you.


http://www.schmolke-carbon-titan.de/carbon/carbon_uk/index_c_uk.html

[e-RICHIE]

how 'bout some text!

[Big Dan]

Richard what's aluminimumium??
wild stuff.........
I know how I can lose 21 grams..have somebody kick me in the b*lls before the ride...... :hello:

[GoJavs]

Allows me to lose more than...Oh, never mind... :cool:

Here! Here! for Aluminumnumnum...I leave Carbon for the bbq on Sundays. Let me see...if I shave 21 grams off my 25 lbs.+ RB2, how much is that? :rolleyes:

[e-RICHIE]

Big Dan wondered:
"I know how I can lose 21 grams..have somebody kick me in the b*lls before the ride......"


wrong!

[Sandy]

Maybe not. But it will put him in a more aero position for the ride. Hence, his speed will increase.

Snail Slow Sandy

[Big Dan]

How can I lose 21 grams before the ride without installing the latest and greatest carbon fibre handlebars on my sled?.......... ;)

[e-RICHIE]

They say we all lose 21 grams
at the exact moment of our death...
everyone.
The weight of a stack of nickels.
The weight of a chocolate bar.
The weight of a hummingbird....

[Climb01742]

i don't know enough to propose a counter argument, but so far, the case against carbon bars seems mostly ancedotal...this happened to a friend of mine, etc. i'd be curious to hear from someone who works with carbonfiber. carbon frames seem to be holding up well. same with carbon forks. perhaps stems and bars are different, but so far the case against seems not terribly fact based. any carbon gurus out there who could enlighten us?

[GoJavs]

Sean Penn and that wonderfully pleasant :beer: Naomi Watts!

[e-RICHIE]

i don't know enough to propose a counter argument, but so far, the case against carbon bars seems mostly ancedotal...this happened to a friend of mine, etc. i'd be curious to hear from someone who works with carbonfiber. carbon frames seem to be holding up well. same with carbon forks. perhaps stems and bars are different, but so far the case against seems not terribly fact based. any carbon gurus out there who could enlighten us?


Climb-o,
is yours a weight saving interest?
sincerely,
e-RICHIE

[pale scotsman]

Big Dan wondered:
"I know how I can lose 21 grams..have somebody kick me in the b*lls before the ride......"


wrong!

I'll bet it's more cause he'll definitely puke if the kick is hard enough. ;)

[Big Dan]

" I remember climbing the Dolomites....." :D

Sorry wrong guy, it's not me....

Where's the guru when we need him....... :crap:

[dirtdigger88]

Ok then where is the bar that I seek- reach 75-80mm drop 130-140mm non anatomic and 31.8- if not the easton

Jason

[David Kirk]

The difference between a carbon frame/fork and a stem or bar or seat post is that with a bar/stem/seatpost you are clamping ( crushing?) and then adding a bending load. Not a good thing.

There are lots of great uses of carbon fiber.........ski poles, bike frames, fishing rods, bike forks.............none of these things are clamped and bent.

Dave

[H.Frank Beshear]

Bontrager race lite OS is 135 - 85 and can be had in traditional drop. Check the website the variable radius bend is what youre looking for. Frank

[DWF]

I broke some CF parts on my MTBs during my weightweenie phase. Two CF seatposts and one CF bar. Of course I also broke an aluminum crankset, an aluminum seat post, two aluminum bars, two aluminum frames, a semi-broken aluminum stem, god knows how many ss spokes, several rear hubs, including Kings, and several rim & chain failures. Which is probably why my current hardtail weighs 30+ pounds and now days I only worry about breaking my body and not my bike or components (see pic of my MTB in a "lighter", short fork, 28-pound build. Yes Martha, that's a steel frame and a 1.75" downtube).

On my road bikes I've had only a few failed components: an aluminum Prima199 bar (cracked intersection of grip OD and bulge for stem) and an aluminum stem (faceplate failure), and a couple rear hubs. None of them put me on the ground or hurt me anywhere near as bad as having my chain break while I was climbing out of the saddle at about 12mph which flipped me over the bars brought the bike, which was still attached to my feet, on top of me.

What am I trying to say? Everything breaks. Most often the part you think about least. Buy the best quality you can afford (and "the best" is not always "the best" if you know what I mean) and don't chase low weight as a means to an end lest you discover that your most significant weight loss is found on the end of a feeding tube.

[vaxn8r]

What am I trying to say? Everything breaks.
hmmm.....I think I've heard this before. Good advice.

[Climb01742]

Climb-o,
is yours a weight saving interest?
sincerely,
e-RICHIE

no, richie, it isn't. particularly not after i saw that deda newtons weigh 205 grams. my interest is more in shape. like the oval bars we've e-mailed about. their shape looks like one that might work well for me. alu bars these days seem to come in fairly standard shapes; shapes that -- judging from many posts on the forum -- don't ideally fit what lots of folks want. carbon bars seem to be venturing into more interesting shapes. so my main interest in bars these days isn't weigh but shape. the best shaped bars i've found, so far, are the modolo curvissimo and deda newton shallow italian bend -- one carbon, one alu. the oval bars i'm trying to track down have an interesting shape. the eastons have an interesting shape. for me, i can feel the shape of bar much more than i can feel a few grams.

i have quite a few carbon seatposts (for weight savings and dampening.) no problems so far. i have only one carbon stem (a modolo designed to go with the curvissimo.) no problems so far. i understand the argument that, carbon when clamped improperly, fails. but this thread is heavy on theory and light on facts. i'm not saying carbon can't fail. i'm just saying it seems unfair to condemn something without hearing from someone who knows a lot about carbon. bars and stems may, or may not, be a good use for carbon. the case just seems to be an open one.

[Rich_W]

No carbon bars for me... I learned the hard way... had a pair of Easton EC90s fail on me decending fast on a road that had expansion joints. The bars crushed inside the stem, and rotated 90° downward in a split second. I was lucky my hands we on the drops... if I was on the hoods, my name would have been "Guido-the human pizza'.

And no, they were not over torqued.

For me, I just don't trust them, plus I ride a classic bend, with a long shallow drop. I'm no carbon hater... The new WCS post is a work of art, and plenty of carbon frames I would ride too. Just not the bars.

And this was before Easton was smart enough to tell people not to use them with 4 bolt stems... in this case it was a newton. Easton replaced the bars... I thanked them, and sold them on ebay.

I just picked up a new pair of WCS classics 26.0 x 42, and they weigh in at 208 on the gram scale... combine that with a WCS stem 120x26.0 at 111g.

Most carbon setups are heavier, even those fancy pants bar-stem combos. Looking at the weights of those new chunky carbon stems, and K-wing whatevers... seems silly to carry an extra 100g of bling up the hills.

[David Kirk]

With all due respect Mr. Climb I'm not sure what type of proof you are looking for...........or realistically, what type may be given.

From my perspective, and this is just my opinion, as someone who has designed and built stuff from most every material out there I feel that carbon bars, stems and seat posts are not worth the risk of failure. Failure of these components isn't just inconvienient but is dangerous. Failure of these pieces isn't a certainty but the chances are high enough that I'm uncomfortable with that risk. I've talked too so many bike shop guys that have had customers come in with a crushed seat post or two piece handlebars that I don't need a lab test to show convince me that there is a possible danger.

I agree that the evidence of carbon failure is more word of mouth than results from a lab test. But for me there is enough word of mouth, enough video of Tour guys hitting the deck with half a handlebar in their hand to make me personally open my eyes.

I fully realize that some will take my words with a large grain of salt due to what I do for a living and what I do it with.........but please dont consider me a ludite. I like carbon frames, I worked long and hard on the F1 fork and I'm still proud of that work. I'm just saying that in my opinion the pendulum has swung a bit far away from safety in favor of weight savings or bling appeal and that a few years from now we very well might look back on this time and say "what the hell were we thinking?".

I hope I'm understood on this. I'm not saying the sky is falling.......what I am saying is please, for your own sake, make well educated decisions on what stuff you stick onto your favorite frame.

Take away this soap box before I write again!

Thanks for your time,

Dave

[dirtdigger88]

I realize that I can get the same shape I am looking for in the EA70 Pro bar- so I am calling the shop at 10 when they open- I know they have not ordered the other bars yet- David K- thanks for the passionate reply I understand what you are saying. I was full into MTB in the early 90's when EVERYTHING suddenly got a bunch lighter- then things started breaking or bending- anyone remember when companies were making 17 lbs mountain bikes? Sub 20 lbs full suspension? Anyone still see one of those around today?
At least the shop is used to me changing my mind three to four times before I buy something

jason

[Climb01742]

dave, i respect both your opinion and knowledge. and i clearly don't know enough to say, with any certainty, whether carbon bars are safe or not. i guess the "proof" i'd be curious about would be to hear from someone like bob parlee or craig calfee or someone at easton...someone who has as much experience with carbon as you, richie, don, and curt have with steel. people once said carbon frames where unsafe (which they once were, but not now.) same with the first carbon forks. are the safety issues with bars and stems an inherent design/use weakness...or are we just on the upslope of the learning curve? and i agree, there is a lot of anecdotal "evidence" of carbon bars failing. but what is that evidence of? poor design? poor installation? poor luck? all of the above? again, i'm not saying you're wrong. just that we have yet to hear from someone with as much carbon experience as you have with steel.

[e-RICHIE]

Kirk-issimo wrote (and wrote well, i must add...):
"But for me there is enough word of mouth..."


i agree.

because technology alone is a poor substitute for experience

[Roy E. Munson]

I recall last year or the previous, one of the teams at Paris-Roubaix swapped out their carbon bars and stems for AL for "safety" reasons.

Hmmmmmmmm

[David Kirk]

I agree Mr. Climb,

I'd really like the opinion of a true carbon expert. Anyone lurking out there?

Dave

[Roy E. Munson]

"I'd really like the opinion of a true carbon expert. Anyone lurking out there?

There are hundreds of them working in Japan spitting out those carbon bars we all love!

[Big Dan]

Have a feeling the carbon experts are going to say the carbon bars are very safe.... :D
In reality somebody has questions about how safe they really are....
if not why be concerned with starting a thread named "most durable carbon bars".... :confused:

[weisan]

"The most durable carbon bars are made of...wood!"
Check it out:
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/2005/feb/noodleman.htm

[e-RICHIE]

the future looks bright;
i have alot of wood.

[Roy E. Munson]

Uh oh, e-richie's got wood.

[dirtdigger88]

thats funny- "you have wood" :D

jason

[mad_mark]

the future looks bright;
i have alot of wood.

Framebuilders and Cialis. I rest my case ;)

Mark.

PS: Just messing with ya!

[dirtdigger88]

got wood?

jason

[Climb01742]

if your frame remains stiff for four hours or longer...

[dirtdigger88]

if your frame remains stiff for four hours or longer...

beat it with a stick. . .

jason

[Climb01742]

i talked to someone at belmont about this ("this" being carbon bars breaking, not the "this" being the subject of the last few posts.) ok, granted, the person i talked to isn't the carbon expert i had hoped, but it is someone who's seen a lot of equipment flow through a very busy bike shop. according to him, based on what comes thru the shop, carbon bars are no more likely to break than alu bars. he said he's seen plenty of alu bars break, including an alu bar in his hands during a sprint.

granted, his POV is just as anecdotal as everyone else's in this thread. (and before you think it, the last pair of bars i bought from him and belmont were alu, so no, he's not trying to sell me a pricey carbon bar.) many of the posts in this thread bug me because carbon bars are being slammed without any real technical knowledge of carbon. there's a lot of technical knowledge here of steel, but to slam carbon bars without knowing more than anecdotal evidence seems irresponsible. perhaps particularly irresponsible because the voices who are slamming them the most are very respected here...respected for steel. your opinions carry extra weight...which they should when it comes to steel...carbon is a bit of a leap. i think if the same posts, slamming carbon bars, had come from other members, the opinions might have been challenged more...and rightly so. but because they came from who they did, the opinions got more of a free ride than, IMO, they should have. again, i certainly don't know enough to slam or praise the design and strength of carbon bars. but i doubt anyone else here does either, and to do so, is, i think, irresponsible. irresponsible to both carbon bars and to the forum members who own carbon bars and might now be unjustifiably worried about using them. if bob parlee or craig calfee or someone from easton told me to worry about carbon bars, ok, that's fair. if it's someone who makes steel frames, that doesn't seem fair.

[e-RICHIE]

okay - we'll stop!

[bostondrunk]

beat it with a stick. . .

jason


...like it owes you money!

[davep]

I also wonder how strong the ultralight, ultrathin, super-duper new alloy bars are? I have heard, also anecdotally, that these bars are made of alloys that are very strong, but also very brittle. They will snap and not bend. I am not an expert on either carbon or aluminum, but it seems that the problem might be not the material, but pushing any material to the limits, and when you do that the margin of error becomes very small.

[William]

...like it owes you money!

Lamb & rice, or good O'le american beef?


William (who sticks with trusty, stout aluminum bars & leaves all the trick alloy carbon stuff to de udders):confused:

[dirtdigger88]

climb-o-

I guess I will be the guinnie- rat for the group- I got busy the other day and forgot to call the shop to change my bar order- now the carbon ones are on the way- the shop offered to send them back but I decided to give them a shot- I figured for what I paid for the bars- I have wasted much more money on much dumber things- For every one who has a horror story about carbon bars there are just as many who have been very happy with them- A great friend of mine is a very fast and strong Cat 3- he swears by his eastons- this guy only races crits- so you know he has hit the pavement before- no broken bars- then I think of my own experience- I have had Monkey Lite riser bars on my FSR for years- when I ride there is one wash out that makes a great half pipe to jump out of- I normally stop there to hit the jumps for 30 minutes or so every ride- I can easily get 4-5 feet of air out of this bowl- I have never had a problem with my carbon bars breaking- I realize that I may break the road bars- but if I do I doubt that I will die from it- Unless I am racing down the Alps with some short stemmer- So I guess we as a group will have a first hand honest opinion of carbon bars over the next year- We will see- I have always wanted to be a science experiment- :banana:

jason

[e-RICHIE]

I also wonder how strong the ultralight, ultrathin, super-duper new alloy bars are? I have heard, also anecdotally, that these bars are made of alloys that are very strong, but also very brittle. They will snap and not bend. I am not an expert on either carbon or aluminum, but it seems that the problem might be not the material, but pushing any material to the limits, and when you do that the margin of error becomes very small.


which ones are these? 200gms-220gms has been the norm
for almost a decade. which bar types are new alloy and lighter
than this range?

[Roy E. Munson]

Climb wrote:
"if bob parlee or craig calfee or someone from easton told me to worry about carbon bars, ok, that's fair."

Climb - would you come out publically and say that advertising sucks and there is no benefit to it?
Why would a manufacturer of carbon goods come out and say ANYTHING negative about it?

[RichMc]

I'm with Climb on this. I don't think there is more evidence to condemn carbon bars than aluminum bars.

If you look at this picture the bars did not break at the stem or at the brake lever attachment. They broke halfway between. There is no history attached as to any previous crash or knocking about. Aluminum can and does fail like this also. A carbon/kevlar composite might not fail so catastrophically. Now you are able to get carbon bars in shapes that cannot be done in aluminum. Maybe carbon bars dampen road buzz, I dunno. The real kicker is spending the extra money for a component that might not be any lighter than aluminum. Some are but then you have to ask youself if the minimal weight savings are worth it.

[davep]

which ones are these? 200gms-220gms has been the norm
for almost a decade. which bar types are new alloy and lighter
than this range?

That is the range I was talking about. Again, I am only speaking about what I have heard from other people. I didn't realize these bars had been around so long and have withstood the test of time.

[CalfeeFly]

Although Selcof is harder to find (mostly bought through a LBS) they have a nice compromise. The Selcof Premium is a 31.8 bar with carbon wrap over alloy in the middle where it shows. The matching stem is a carbon wrap over alloy.

I love carbon and I have 3 carbon bikes. However it there is not a distinct advantage but could be a possible big disadvantage I say "Why bother?" My Selcof is as pretty as any carbon bar or stem yet I have that extra measure of safety that a 200 pounder on some of the worse roads in the country enjoys having.

My one Titec carbon seatpost from about 8 years ago had an alloy sleeve in the clamping area. (I still have two newer ones that I use.) One day while cleaning my bike I saw a piece of missing carbon fiber in the post. It wore out I guess and cracked and a piece fell out. At that point I was very happy it had that extra measure of safety.

One thing to remember with carbon parts is a torque wrench. That is so critical whether it be a stem or a steerer. Also not everyone knows but they should be recalibrated every year. It isn't cheap but if they are used alot they can get thrown off. I used to do more work on my bikes but with the advent of all this carbon and the need for a torque wrench I let it up to a professional but them I am lucky to now have a bike store with great wrenches. They use an electronic torque wrench. It is cool. You set the amount and it beeps when you hit it. There is no guesswork or trying to read the dial like the Park Tools one.

Happy riding folks. We got 6 inches of snow yesterday. :(

[kidamaro]

We make pressure vessels out of carbon fiber all the time, and they are every bit as reliable as metal pressure vessels. The difference is in there resistance to damage. Carbon fiber works becasue the fibers are very strong and for the most part continuous. As long as the fibers are continous and for the most part in tension they will remain strong. In compression, as long as the matrix is in tact, (weave of fiber with resin) it is also very strong. Unlike metal, that normally deforms under impact or something, and the material is still there, if you damage carbon, you break material. Either resin or fibers. That's when you start to get into trouble. I you take care to inspect the fibers and resin, and they are well designed, they should be quite reliable.

[Climb01742]

Climb wrote:
"if bob parlee or craig calfee or someone from easton told me to worry about carbon bars, ok, that's fair."

Climb - would you come out publically and say that advertising sucks and there is no benefit to it?
Why would a manufacturer of carbon goods come out and say ANYTHING negative about it?

roy, i would say a least half of all ads suck. and half of all movies, books, TV shows and newspapers in america suck too. being good is damn hard.

i would believe that most responsible builders -- regardless of the material -- would say you could do stupid things with steel, ti, alu and carbon. for example, i bet even the most passionate carbon advocate would say a 600-700 gram frame would be dangerous or a 125-150 gram handlebar. just like a ti or alu builder would say that a way sub-2 pound metal frame would suck. i think they's all be willing to say...doing this with (name material) is smart and ok...but doing this is dumb and dangerous.

(and yes, roy, i personally have created some incredibly sucky ads. i'll admit it. ;) )

[Kevin]

I have about three years on a set of Easton Carbons. A buddy borrowed one of my bikes and crashed with them at about 25 mph. They are still doing great.

Kevin

[dirtdigger88]

I have about three years on a set of Easton Carbons. A buddy borrowed one of my bikes and crashed with them at about 25 mph. They are still doing great.

Kevin

hows your buddy?

jason :D

[jerk]

every currently available carbon fiber road handlebar sucks for the same reason the majority of currently available aluminum handlebars suck. they come in stupid shapes. who the hell wants a handlebar shaped like this? someone who has never ridden a bike? an imaginary person in the cloudy bubble above the senior product manager chow when he's hard at work? who? carbon is a fine material to make stuff out of.....but look at this thing:

[e-RICHIE]

Oval Concepts will offer CF bars in, er, normal bends.
See pics of Heras (no idea on the pronunciation) and
some of his teammates. In 04 they had these.

[vaxn8r]

every currently available carbon fiber road handlebar sucks for the same reason the majority of currently available aluminum handlebars suck. they come in stupid shapes. who the hell wants a handlebar shaped like this? someone who has never ridden a bike? an imaginary person in the cloudy bubble above the senior product manager chow when he's hard at work? who? carbon is a fine material to make stuff out of.....but look at this thing:
Yes, but look at that cool Colnago....

Jerk, I don't prefer such bars. They look weird, they cost too much. But, who's to say what someone is going to like? I have a friend who's CF bars I can't get comfortable with, but he loves them. He's not a racer but he rides 5k miles a year. So what's wrong with that? We know you hate anatomic bars but I don't see that it follows that everyone else should hate them. There's a cat 2 on my team that can't stand the regular curve bars. Most of us just don't care as long as it feels OK. I'm in that group.

Finally, if CF bars were cheap I might try them but honestly I don't understand the benefit. Kind of like CF cranks. Why? Besides the bling bling...which is OK, but I don't see a performance enhancement.

[BarryG]

Ok then where is the bar that I seek- reach 75-80mm drop 130-140mm non anatomic and 31.8- if not the easton
Not sure if you're still looking for the info Jason and whether you've come back from the dark side, but the Newton is available in 135drop 80reach, non-anatomic (Deda calls it "shallow drop").

[Tony Edwards]

I like the shape of the Kestrel bars (http://www.kestrel-usa.com/accessories/bars.php), which are about as non-anatomic as any widely-available bar.

EDIT: Sweet merciful crap - look at this thing! Ay, chihuahua!

[Big Dan]

I think that bar fell of the truck..... :D

[GoJavs]

Eh...I mean they don't look like Nittos. Grant P. wouldn't be pleased!

Forget it! I'm taking my i-Bobbing a@@ right out of here before I get shellacked...Oops! did it again, sorry! Where's dbrk when you need him? :crap:

[erty65]

Finally, if CF bars were cheap I might try them but honestly I don't understand the benefit. Kind of like CF cranks. Why? Besides the bling bling...which is OK, but I don't see a performance enhancement.

Carbon components often weigh less. :banana:

[shinomaster]

I have a new pair of the old easton carbon bars with the Rough center, the kind with the red drops in a 26.0 clamp. Are you guys saying I shouldn't try them??

[Too Tall]

.
I ain't afraid to say the only reason I put these on my racing tandem is bling factor. Looks count. Pretty conventional bends and Kestrel rep. helps too.

[Climb01742]

.Looks count.

ain't nuthin' wrong with that. all other things being equal, go for da bling! afterall didn't walt whitman write.. "i bling the body electric"?

[bcm119]

I have a new pair of the old easton carbon bars with the Rough center, the kind with the red drops in a 26.0 clamp. Are you guys saying I shouldn't try them??

Shino, I've had that handlebar on my main bike for almost 4 years now with no problems. I like the shape of the bar. Just make sure you use a 2-bolt stem clamp and use a torque wrench when installing. I use an easton ea-70 stem because it has an oval shaped faceplate that supposedly distributes the compression load evenly. It also has steel fixtures that the bolts screw into, so theres no chance of stripping aluminum threads. Very security oriented stem imo. Maybe BS but it gives me some peace of mind...